Talkin' Horses

Mike Smith Podcast - Listen Now!

Blood-Horse Staff — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 18:46:00 GMT

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Transcript

I want to welcome everyone to BloodHorse.com’s Talkin’ Horses. Our guest this week is Jockey Mike Smith, probably doesn’t need much of an introduction after the fabulous ride in the Breeders’ Cup Classic last weekend, but a little bit about Mike.

He is from Roswell, New Mexico, living in California right now. He has ridden 53 Grade I races, won 53 Grade I races, won Eclipse Awards in ’93 and ’94, was inducted into the Hall of Fame in 2003. And you’ve had the pleasure of having ridden three horses of the year, Holy Bull, Skip Away and Azeri.

Mike, I want to welcome you. Thank you for joining us on Talkin’ Horses.

Mike Smith: Thank you.

Eric Mitchell (Editorial Director of The Blood-Horse): The format we have at Talkin’ Horses is we solicit questions from people, from the visitors of Blood Horse.com and as you might imagine, we were inundated with questions about Zenyatta. It’s all Zenyatta. I can’t imagine that you have talked about much else over the last week or so, is that probably a fair question?

Mike Smith: Oh, yeah, more than fair.

Eric Mitchell: The first question I have is from a guy who identified himself as Rich C, and he was just wondering, what does it feel like turning for home on a machine as he describes like Zenyatta?

Mike Smith: It’s incredible. I wish you all could get the opportunity to feel what it feels like. It’s as if she’s just there hitting the ground two or three times and she’s just doing it once and just running by them. It’s amazing.

Eric Mitchell: Now, when did you – I had a question from someone who wanted to know – when did you first meet Zenyatta? When did you get introduced to her?

Mike Smith: Before she ever ran, I worked her once at Delmar before she ever ran. It was a couple of years ago.

Eric Mitchell: And what was the impression at the time?

Mike Smith: Before she ever ran, we knew she was something special. We didn’t – I mean, we didn’t know it was going to be Zenyatta but we certainly knew there was something there.

Eric Mitchell: When you first get on a horse, what is it that you feel as that horse is underneath you that tells you this horse has what it takes?

Mike Smith: Well, balance means a lot to me. I have always seen the real good ones have unbelievable balance; they’ve just got a beautiful way of getting over the ground, there’s nothing wasted about it. And for as big as she is, you would think she’d be a little clumsy but she’s just so balanced and then when she pushes, there’s so much power there that goes with it. It’s just amazing.

Eric Mitchell: Amy Rooney wanted to know – Does it rattle you at all when she does that little dance that she’s doing on her way to the track?

Mike Smith: No. There’s a Spanish song I always listen to before I ride her and it sort of reminds me of her dancing to this like Spanish music. It’s kind of neat, I think.

Eric Mitchell: I mean that’s a good description; it does kind of seem like some kind of choreographed dance for her.

Mike Smith: Yeah. She warms herself up that way, too. She stretches, she’s getting loosened up because I don’t warm her up. I don’t warm her up before she runs.

Eric Mitchell: I had a question from Drew. He wants to know – As a jockey, do you go through a period of mourning when you’ve had such a great horse like Zenyatta and she gets retired?

Mike Smith: Well, it’s sad that you’re not going to ride them anymore but her going undefeated and then winning the classic like she did, it made everything okay. You can let her go now. She’s done it all.

Eric Mitchell: Well, there’s no question, she doesn’t have anything left to prove. In that race – I had a question from Christi who wanted to know kind of what was going through your head when it was just Zenyatta and Gio Ponti coming down the stretch?

Mike Smith: At that point, once I got cleared and I mean she just dropped down to another gear, I was like – I can’t believe she’s going to do this against the best, older horses in the world. She’s going to do it again without me getting to the bottom of her. I mean, it was just … I was just in awe, I couldn’t believe it, what she could do was just amazing. And the crowd, that was the first time I think I’ve ever really – the crowd was so loud. It was incredible. I’ve never seen nothing like it. And they stayed that way for a good 10 minutes, it seemed like. It was a pretty wild day.

Eric Mitchell: You’ve had your share of Kentucky Derbies as well, how did the noise at Santa Anita compare with the crowd on Derby day?

Mike Smith: Well, Derby day is certainly loud too but Churchill is so big and long, I mean you just kind of hear muffled noise all the way around, you know, where this was this compact right there, just like, bam, you know, I mean, it could almost knock you off your horse, it seemed like.

Eric Mitchell: Did the race pretty much unfold like you expected?

Mike Smith: I wouldn’t want to change it now because…

Eric Mitchell: No, obviously.

Mike Smith: …we’ve already – I tell you what, I wasn’t expecting to get away that slow. I mean, she literally spotted them four or five lengths leaving the gate. So I knew at that point, I said, oh god, all the times to do it, why today? And then, I knew I was going to have to try and cut some corner somewhere and I was just very blessed with a great trip after that, you know.

Eric Mitchell: You seemed at coming out of the turn on top of the stretch, there is a decision to go inside or outside at that point, was there a decision there to make?

Mike Smith: Yeah, I mean, you can actually see me – I was going to split them and then as I was going to do it, I pointed her in that direction. I was going to do that, then I saw that the rider on the outside pick up his right hand. So I knew that when he hit this horse, he’s probably going to go in some and sure enough, he did. I just skipped right out as he did it. At the same time he did it, I was on the outside by the time he even did it. So it was quick.

Eric Mitchell: Great anticipation. Great decision. John Leech wanted to know – at what point did you feel like you had the race, that it was just a certainty?

Mike Smith: Well, nothing is a certainty until you get on by them. But I felt really confident at the 3/8 pole that I could get there, I just needed to find somewhere – somehow to get there but I knew I had the horse. She was loaded and she was going to run huge. At the 3/8 she was just gobbling the ground. And once I headed for home and as I saw that rider pick his right hand up and I skipped to the outside, I knew then that she’s – because once I did that and I got after her a little bit. I mean she just had gears that are never ending. I mean, it was just like bam, bam by them and up come the ears again, you know.

Eric Mitchell: At least on television and to viewers, it almost looked effortless. I mean, she really… when you said you didn’t get to the bottom to her, it just looked like the race didn’t take that much out of her.

Mike Smith: Galloping out, she galloped out probably 10, 15 in front of everyone and then I mean, when she stopped and picked her head up and was looking at the crowd because they’re making so much noise and then she turned around and started dancing again. It didn’t take nothing out of her.

Eric Mitchell: I have a question here from Mike, who – he almost feels a little cheated because he didn’t get a chance to see Zenyatta race against males earlier in the year. Do you know if there had been any discussion about her running in any other races like the Gold Cup?

Mike Smith: I mean, there were always discussions on different races. The main thing that we were pointing towards was the Breeders’ Cup Classic. I mean that’s what you wanted to win. If we could get there… surely, the Ladies Classic, I thought too but I mean, the main thing was always the Breeders’ Cup Classic.

Eric Mitchell: Lots of discussion right now about Zenyatta versus Rachel Alexandra, and the second race, if you will, for horse of the year. You want to weigh in on that argument at all?

Mike Smith: You know, I mean it’s up to the voters. I mean, I can sit here and tell you why I know Zenyatta is Horse of the Decade but that’s just my opinion. I think if you just see that way that she beat – I mean, she didn’t just beat she didn’t just beat colts, I mean she beat the best, the best of the best, and the best race that there is that the championship decides it, and she went out there and she won it.

Not only did she win it, she won it without getting to the bottom of it at all. She went undefeated this year. She carried 129 pounds, I think probably the only horse that won a Grade I carrying 129 and did that with ease. I mean, she just – look at the mare that won the ladies classic, I beat her three times.

Eric Mitchell: Right. Well, I think it’s…

Mike Smith: I mean, taking nothing away from Rachel, I mean, she’s an incredible, incredible filly but I wish she would have been there. I really do.

Eric Mitchell: And I had a comment from someone who only identified themselves as a Zenyatta fan. That said, if Tiger Woods doesn’t show up for the Masters’ and he doesn’t get to be golfer of the year… so you know, it would have been nice to see Rachel in the Breeders’ Cup. You know, everybody has to do what’s right by their horse.

A couple of people had noticed that after your win that you had crossed yourself after the victory. A question from Sue wanted to know how much your faith plays, or does it play a bigger role in your life, in your career.

Mike Smith:   Everything in my life… it played a huge part in that race because let me tell you something, I’ve never ever felt pressure like that. I mean, you can add up all the Derby and the Grade I and all the other Breeders’ Cups and they still wouldn’t amount to as much pressure as I was feeling. I basically just had to pray and just leave it at his hands and say I know that you’re going to lead the way. I just left it to him and I was able to ride a great race doing that. I was able to think clearly and know that he’s going to be there at all times. And it was there.

Eric Mitchell: I don’t think there’s any question about that.

One thing, a personal question; just after the race, the cameras spent quite a bit of time showing just you sitting on Zenyatta on the track, just the two of you, kind off by yourself kind of soaking in the moment. What goes through your head at that moment?

Mike Smith:   Every kind of emotion that you could possibly think of. Everything great. And extremely, extremely, extremely relieved.

Eric Mitchell: There was definitely a look of joy, man.

Mike Smith: I did it, you know. I didn’t let her go unbeaten. And then to go unbeaten and beat the best boys, it was just incredible. You couldn’t write a greater story, I don’t believe.

Eric Mitchell: I have a question here from Michael. He wants to know – Do you have any pre race rituals that you go through before you ride a race?

Mike Smith: Not… I mean, you know, I’ve certainly done my homework and I know what’s out there. I know what the competition is and at least have some idea what I believe is going to happen. And then I say a prayer that everyone’s safe and we get the opportunity to do what we know what to do and that’s all you can ask for and I go out there and ride.

Eric Mitchell: I got a lot of questions, a lot of people wanting you to compare Zenyatta with other great horses that you have ridden – Holy Bull or Azeri or Skip Away. Does she compare or maybe you can kind of speak to some or all of them, how she compares with some of the other greats you’ve ridden?

Mike Smith: I mean, like you said, you named a few there, and in their time, they were unbeaten, they were unbeatable. Whatever made them what they were was what they had. Holy Bull with tremendous speed and could carry a long ways but I’ve never ever been on a horse that can just run down anything at anything at any time, any place… You ask her – in a matter of jumps, she can make up 10 links like now. I’ve never seen that before.

Eric Mitchell: Not in any of these other horses that you’ve ridden.

Mike Smith: No. I mean they could make up ground and they’d come rolling and run down but I’ve never felt the power that she has. It overcomes anything I’ve ever been on.

Eric Mitchell: I have a question from Mitch Robbins. He was wondering about Zenyatta’s turn of foot on other surfaces. She did run on the dirt at Oaklawn Park. Is there any comparison to kind of how she reacts, how she gets that turn of foot, whether it’s synthetic or dirt?

Mike Smith: She will certainly run over anything just because she is who she is. But the stronger she’s ever felt I thought was actually on the dirt where she was going to Oaklawn Park and Ginger Punch was about 15 in front of me, going in – they were all going about three and half. She was about 10 to 15 in front of me and I thought oh, my god, I’ve left her way too much to do. How am I going to do this? And I tapped her on the shoulder twice and I went from thinking that to thinking oh, god, I’m going to hit the front way too soon.

That’s the kind of turn of foot she has.

Eric Mitchell: Wow.

Mike Smith: It was just incredible. And then everyone in that race, in the Apple Blossom in that race, all came back and won, every single horse, even the horse that ran last. The next time out, two of them come back and won Grade I, the rest have all won stakes and the one that ran dead last won an allowance race the next time out.

Eric Mitchell: That’s an amazing – now that’s a deep field. No question about it.

I got a question here from Sue Mattingly who said, she thought you did a great job riding Vindication and see that you are now riding Crisis of Spirit, daughter of Vindication. Any similarities between the two horses?

Mike Smith: You know, I found that some of Vindications that I’ve ridden were pretty hot blooded, they’ve kind of got their … their grandfather came out in them. And Vindication himself was a cool horse. I mean, he was just laid back, he was just beautiful. And Crisis of Spirit is a lot like him, she has the same attitude. The only thing is she’s really fast.

Eric Mitchell: Yes.

Mike Smith: I mean, she’s lightning quick, out of the gate. And I got her to rate the other day a little. So I’m hoping in doing that down the road, we can go long at some point.

Eric Mitchell:   We all look forward to that, to watching her to grow into what she’s going to become.

I got a question here from Paul Langner. He says – When you’re on a 2 year old, what does that two year old have to show you mentally, as well as physically, that would convince you that he’s of stakes quality horse?

Mike Smith: Mentally is, believe it or not, half the battle. They don’t have the mind to go with that ability; they just waste it all pretty much. They’ve definitely got to have… I mean, they can be hot blooded and aggressive but still keep their mind intact. I mean there’s a difference when one just loses it. So yeah, having a good head on your shoulder is like I said, I think it’s half the battle. You could probably beat more talent with just using your head than having the raw ability.

Eric Mitchell: That makes sense. A lot of people had wanted you to pick between some of these great horses, Zenyatta or Holy Bull. Is there any way to pick a favorite, even though it kind of sounds like…

Mike Smith: That’s not fair. You know, Holy Bull is totally bull is Holy Bull. He was just – what an amazing horse. I mean, his time and his place, I don’t know if anything could have caught him but right now, there’s just nothing and I’ve never – like I said before, felt nothing like Zenyatta. She’s got a … she’s got a kick that’s like nothing I’ve ever seen or felt.

Eric Mitchell: We talked a little bit about the energy that surrounds the Derby versus the Breeders’ Cup and there certainly was more drama surrounding this classic race. But are the Breeders’ Cup races themselves compared with the Derby, are they comparable in your mind or can you talk a little bit about the difference between going into each of these races?

Mike Smith: Well, I guess, the Breeders’ Cup, you got more than one chance.

Eric Mitchell: Yeah, that’s true.

Mike Smith: The Derby, you know, that’s only one time for that one three year old and that’s it. In the Breeders’ Cup, you can come back and run maybe the next division next year, this or that. But they’re all just so exciting, especially the classic. You know, they’re apples and oranges; they both are great.

Eric Mitchell: Hannah from Texas had several questions, well, three. First, she wanted to know what got your interest in horse racing and riding to begin with?

Mike Smith: Being raised on a ranch and both my grandparents owned horses and my uncle was a trainer. My father rode. I didn’t grow any (or at least that much), and I loved horses. I’ve been riding since I could walk, it’s all I’ve ever wanted to do was to be a jockey.

Eric Mitchell: Tell us a little bit about your relationship with the Mosses and the Shirreffs, and kind of when you guys all got connected and began working together.

Mike Smith: Well, first of all, it’s an unbelievable relationship. All of them are just – not only are they just great people to ride for, they are great people; they are just wonderful, wonderful people, on and off camera and anywhere else. I mean, they’re just great.

It all started a long time ago. The first time I ever rode for John I flew here for a – I was receiving the George Woolf Award, and they were having a jockey challenge of the United States against Europe, and one of the horses I rode in that race was for John and I won it, coming down the hill at Santa Anita. And then when I came out to California, he said, hey, I got a Holy Bull colt that I want you come and see and tell me what you think about him.

And so I went over there and that’s how I started riding for him. It was Giacomo, and he kicked it all off.

Eric Mitchell: Because he happened to be a Holy Bull colt, did that kind of pique your interest even more of wanting to get on him and see what he was like?

Mike Smith: It was a funny story, it’s just a story, but it’s actually the truth. After I worked him – after I breezed him, I said, man, John, I really like the way he felt. You know, I mean he had great balance. I said you get him to the Derby and I want to redeem his father’s name.

And I really told him that, and it happened.

Eric Mitchell: Well, when you watch enough Derbies after a while, you kind of begin to think that history has a way of making right...

Mike Smith: Yes.

Eric Mitchell: ..of what’s happened in the past.

Mike Smith: It goes to show you, just throw it out there and who knows what’s going to happen. Put it out in the universe.

Eric Mitchell: Well, exactly. That’s a great story.

I actually have not so much a question but a comment here from a woman named Tara Scheland – and I hope I’m pronouncing her name correctly – but she said – I don’t have so much a question for you but her 9-year-old son had asked me to write to you that you had recently sent him a picture of you on Zenyatta. His name is Brandon Griffin.

Mike Smith: Yes.

Eric Mitchell: And he just wanted to thank you for taking the time to do that. She knows your busy.

Mike Smith: I remember that.

Eric Mitchell: That she just – that it meant a lot to her and just she wants to thank you from the bottom of her heart. You made her day and made the day of her son who is getting interested in racing. Right around the same time as she did and she just wanted to say, congratulations and thank you. And so that goes out to you from Tara and Brandon.

Mike Smith: Tell them, thank you. I remember signing that and sending it off.

Eric Mitchell: What kind of questions – I mean, here we have a 9-year-old boy, he’s interested in racing, who knows if he wants to be a jockey someday or a trainer, but if someone came to you and said they wanted to be a jockey, what kind of advice would you give them?

Mike Smith: Well, Chris McCarron right there in Keeneland/Lexington that got the jockey school. I mean, what a great way to get a chance to start, you’re getting taught by a legendary Hall of Famer like Chris McCarron. A great person. I mean, I’d send you right there. Otherwise, you’ve got to do it that hard way, on a farm here and try to get a job over there; there’s a lot to it. You know, I was blessed that my uncle trained so I was there; I was hands on all the time. If you could do something like that, it’s also great, but a jockey school, if you want to be a jockey that’s the place to go.

Eric Mitchell: Well, like you said, there’s a great talent there in Chris McCarron and he can show you the ropes.

Mike Smith: He’s one of the greatest. Definitely.

Eric Mitchell: I got a question from Meleah who wants to know if you think we’ll see a Triple Crown winner in the next five years.

Mike Smith: Well, I sure hope so and I hope I’m on him. Because I’ve always dreamed since at a young, young age, I was going to win the Triple Crown. I saw Secretariat do it when I was a little boy, and I said I’m going to do that, that same thing right there. I believe it’s waiting for me.

Eric Mitchell: I also had several questions about the show Jockeys that you had appeared on. Tina Lippincott from West Virginia said you appeared very relaxed in front of the camera and she wants to know how natural is that dialogue? And do you find the cameras and the crew intrusive after a while especially during private moments away from the track?

Mike Smith: Yeah, well, quite a bit actually. I’m glad I look natural. I sure didn’t feel it. It was kind of hard to be yourself, believe it or not – when someone is filming you – being yourself.

Eric Mitchell: Right. Right.

Mike Smith: It’s weird but they’re really smart about it. They use the same camera guys and the same people. You see them every day and you get to know them. They actually become your friends. I mean, those guys actually when I ran into them, a lot of them are still my friends. And that’s how they get you to relax. And then, yeah, it was a pain after a while.

They’re just with you all the time.

Eric Mitchell: Now, how did that show come about? How did they approach you? What was kind of the pitch?

Mike Smith: Well, there were two producers, two girls, that came up with the idea that actually had done a lot of research and got really close to almost hitting the same type of show kicked off several years ago. And then when they heard there was another director that was thinking about doing something like this, well they joined in with him and they already had so much research done that he thought that was great.

Then they came to Hollywood Park and talked to all of us and asked if anyone was interested and didn’t mind getting in front of the camera and doing a little interview, and that’s how they picked who they picked.

Eric Mitchell: A lot of people who are fans of that show, are they going to continue, are they doing more episodes?

Mike Smith: No, they would really like to. We had two seasons and that was it. They’d like to do something else. I know they’re looking into doing something else, but I’m not exactly sure what that is.

Eric Mitchell: I had an interesting question here from Anne Keogh who shoots photos for us. She says – Your aunts are so involved in the art world. She was wondering if you’re also involved in collecting as well and what artists interest you?

Mike Smith: Well, you think I would be but I do… I just started buying from her, actually, just about five months ago, I bought a John Moyer’s. It’s a painting of an Indian. It’s got beautiful colors in it and she really liked it and I bought it. Anyway, you can look him up. If you go to Nedra Matteucci’s same gallery – her galleries are all in Santa Fe. You can just go and look up Nedra Matteucci and you can see all of her galleries. She has beautiful, beautiful paintings, beautiful artwork in bronze and you name it, she has it all.

Eric Mitchell: Is there anything like art that you do collect?

Mike Smith: You know, I’m so into horses.

Eric Mitchell: That’s your thing.

Mike Smith: That takes up just about all of my time. If I’m not on a horse’s back, I’m in the gym trying to get stronger so I can stay on a horse’s back.

Eric Mitchell: I had a question here from Alicia. She wanted to know why can’t your wine be shipped outside of the state of California? Are you involved in the wine industry?

Mike Smith: Yes, I am. I’m not really sure why it can’t either. For some reason – I was just talking to one of my partners yesterday, and they were really looking into that. We think that anytime here in the next month or so, it should be able to be shipped out, because we have a new release coming out – an ’07 is coming out, probably in about four or five months.

Eric Mitchell: Oh, okay.

Mike Smith: It’s a Syrah. Our ’06 is a Syrah. It’s really getting pretty popular around here. I mean, it drinks a lot like a Cab, it’s a great wine. If you ever get an opportunity to get any, we have a website, it’s called jineteswine.com. And jinetes is spelled as j-i-n-e-t-e-s.

Eric Mitchell: All right. Now, is that – are you partners in this…?

Mike Smith: Yes. Me, Alex Solis and an owner that we both ride for, his name is Tom Leonard.

Eric Mitchell: And how long have you been doing that?

Mike Smith: Just about three years, I think. For our first release to come out, three or four years for our first release to come out. And we’re just being close friends and we love Napa and we love wine and we go up there all the time together and that’s how we got it going.

Eric Mitchell: Well, that sounds interesting. What’s the label? What’s it called?

Mike Smith: Jinetes which means ‘riders’ in Spanish. And that’s j-i-n-e-t-e-s.

Eric Mitchell: Very good. Well, good luck with that.

Mike Smith: Thank you.

Eric Mitchell: Hopefully, something will break free for you here.

You had mentioned being in the gym, wanting to stay fit, ride as long as you can, have you ever thought about what you wanted to do after riding?

Mike Smith: You know, I have, it’s a scary – actually a very scary thought for me because I’m so passionate about riding that I don’t know if I’ll be ever able to find anything else to be that passionate in. I like doing things that I’m very passionate in because it makes it not work – you know, it makes it just having a lot of fun all the time.

Eric Mitchell: I can understand that.

Mike Smith: I’ve done a lot of commentating on off times and that’s somewhere to go. I don’t think I’d train because then I’d have to get up even earlier than I do now. [chuckles] That would be kind of hard to do for the rest of your life, you know.

Eric Mitchell: Right. Well, you know, the door – I’m sure a lot of doors will open up for you.

Mike Smith: Something will come up, hopefully. And it’s going to be in the industry, whatever it is; it’s definitely going to be in the industry.

Eric Mitchell: This is an interesting question and it’s from a guy named Barry, and maybe it will shed some light on the life of a jockey. His question was related to the top 34 jockeys by earnings in the country. He wants to know why the top jockeys are riding in low claiming races or races with lower purses and shouldn’t those top jockeys only focus on the bigger races with the bigger purses and let other jockeys have the opportunities to ride these less expensive races?

Mike Smith: It sounds like a plan to me. I like his thinking. {laughing}

Eric Mitchell: Oh, you do?

Mike Smith: I don’t really have to ride… it depends … what Barry needs to understand is it depends on what part you are in your career, where you’re at. Where I’m at in my career is exactly what he’s saying. I look for quality, not quantity, not a bunch of horses. I just like to ride three or four days, that’s it. And I like to pick my spots. If you’re able to do that, that’s great, but that’s very hard to do and stay at that top level. I mean, you have to ride day in and day out. The same trainer that you ride a good horse for has a lot of other horses, too.

Eric Mitchell: Right.

Mike Smith: That’s how that comes about. But when you’re young, you want to be the leading rider, you want to be the leading rider in the country, you’re looking to ride as many as you can, all the time. And you know, those are goals that are set by a young rider. So that’s what happens there. but when you get to your top older riders, most of them will pick and choose a whole lot more than they use to.

Eric Mitchell: But as you say, you’re working for a trainer, he’s got a barn full of horses, not all those horses are going to be stakes horses; they’re all going to have their different level.

Mike Smith: And same owners, you know, they have a great horse but they also have lower level horses and they want you to ride those two, and it’s hard to tell them no, you know?

Eric Mitchell: Right. Right. Okay, well appreciate that.

Let’s see what else we have. We got so many, so many questions here about Zenyatta and Rachel and one person wanted to know – we have thrown out – it has been thrown out by several people and certainly out in the blogosphere about a shared Horse of the Year honor. What do you think about that? Co-horse of the year?

Mike Smith: Absolutely not.

Eric Mitchell: Absolutely not – that sounds pretty definitive.

Mike Smith: Absolutely not. No, I don’t believe in that at all.

Eric Mitchell: And why do you say that?

Mike Smith: Because it’s going to be one Horse of the Year, not two. Not in the same year anyway.

Eric Mitchell: Well, and I guess, I’ve also heard people say, well, you know, it’s kind of like the Heisman trophy; you can have a bunch of really talented players but you have to sort them out and you have to pick one.

Mike Smith: That’s what makes it prestigious, you know.

Eric Mitchell: All right.

Mike Smith: Maybe you know, you can give them away to everyone who had a great year, and then there would be five. Before you know it, there’s going to be three Horse of the Year. It’s got to stay one.

Eric Mitchell: Well, I can understand that. You want to leave the prestige of the title.

A couple of people…

Mike Smith: That’s my opinion, anyway…

Eric Mitchell: Yes.

Mike Smith: I’m sure other people have others but…

Eric Mitchell: Sure. And now, you’re from New Mexico, do you get back to New Mexico? Do you still have family there?

Mike Smith: Yes, I do. My mother lives in Roswell. I have a lot of family around there. And my aunts are all around in Sante Fe. So I get back quite a bit actually. A matter of fact, I’m going back on the 6th of 7th, there’s a party for me. I’m heading back to New Mexico.

Eric Mitchell: I have a question from a Dom Temmallo. You have ridden the roller coaster of a lot of people in racing whose careers peak and ebb and wane, and you went through some tough times, they want to know, did you at any point when you were struggling just think about retiring at that point? And what kept you going?

Mike Smith: Certainly in ’98, I got hurt really, really bad. And so, you know, in ’98 and ’99, it was tough. It was the low point in my… certainly my career.   I never wanted to quit or give up, but there were times that I didn’t think that I have a choice. It got down so bad one time, it’s just the love of riding and knowing that I can still do it at a top, top level. I just knew I could. If I really believed I couldn’t, I would have just walked away and I hadn’t won the Derby yet. And you don’t know how bad – we all want to win the Derby, I understand that.

I made it into the Hall of Fame before I won a Derby and was blessed to do so, but given the opportunity that I’ve had in the Derby, I should have won one or two and I didn’t believe that I really belonged in there because I hadn’t done that yet, and that’s just my belief on my career because I was given some great opportunities. So to finally win a Derby is just incredible. I was second like three times before I finally won one.

Eric Mitchell: I mean that was your own expectation of yourself and what you expected out of you.

Mike Smith: Yes, of myself, exactly. Out of myself. Just given the opportunities that I had, and I had some great chances to win. I mean, they ran well, I just didn’t win.

Eric Mitchell: Well, the Derby is like that.

Mike Smith: It’s an amazing… all it takes is one good horse to get rolling again and I came from New York to California, and I was doing pretty well in New York. And when I first got here man, bam there was Azeri. There you were, right back in the limelight, you know. It’s amazing what a good horse will do to you, or for you.

Eric Mitchell: Absolutely.

A question from Kaitlynn Wallace, wanted to know if you’d ridden any other disciplines; before becoming a jockey, did you ride western?

Mike Smith: Yeah, I rode western a lot. Of course, being out from the Midwest in New Mexico you know, rodeoed a little bit myself too. But I never did like dressage or jump and dressage it’s a lot harder than it looks, especially if you think you just go around there jogging. It’s nothing like that. It’s very difficult. It takes years of practice and there’s an art to it and jumping, the same way; I never really jumped. The only time I jumped is because my horse got away from me and we jumped a ditch or something. {laughs}

Eric Mitchell: That’s the extent of your jumping career.

Mike Smith: Yeah, I never did no competition in jumping, as far as that goes. But I really admire all of it though. Played a little polo too and I really loved that. That was something, before I hurt my back, I used to do quite a bit of it up in Wellington. During the winter time, I’d go up there and play with friends of mine that were 10-goal players up there, and they would teach me. A guy named Nemo, and Carlos and Ruben Garcia, they were brothers and an uncle that lived up there. And they still play polo actually.

Eric Mitchell: Well, that’s an interesting sport, polo. I mean, and talk about a lot of coordination and paying attention and…

Mike Smith: I love it.

Eric Mitchell: ..figuring out how to steer and hit and watch the other players. Boy, there’s a lot going on a polo field.

Mike Smith:   A lot to it, a whole lot to it. And I really took to that.

Eric Mitchell: We’ve got a question from Wendy P., she just wants to know – What’s an average week for a rider who is riding at your level, what is it like?

Mike Smith: Well, actually it was amazing. {laughing} It was incredible. Before that, I mean, my head was going to explode, just the pressure was just amazing. I had never let pressure ever really hit me like that. It really did. I mean, two nights before, whew, it was really bad and then I just let it go. Like I said before, I just prayed and let it go and it was just incredible.

When you get the opportunity to ride at this level and ride the beautiful horses that we get to ride, it’s a great life. Let me tell you something, I’d like to tell you how we go through these hard times and we do this and we do that, but it’s just an amazing way to live, as far as I’m concerned.

Eric Mitchell: So that entire week before Breeders’ Cup, were you just trying not to think about it?

Mike Smith: Yeah. Everybody would say, “Are you getting excited, are you exciting, aren’t you excited?”   I’d be like, “No, I don’t want to be yet. It’s too far out.” You know, let it start now, I’d be dwindled up to nothing by the time it comes around, you know?

Leading up to every race with her just got more and more because you’re going unbeaten, I never…going for Personal Ensign record to win at 13…

Eric Mitchell: Right.

Mike Smith: … I mean that was a big thing for us, especially, you know all of use, especially Mr. Moss is a huge fan of Personal Ensign and so even just to do that was incredible for all of us and him, especially him. And then after that, I knew that it was coming. If she’s going to do a 14th, it’s probably going to be against the boys, and I just knew it. And she was doing too well and training too good, not to. It was time, you know. Just step it up and to not just beat the boys, but beat the men.

Eric Mitchell: Well, I think you have to admire the Mosses for taking that chance for…

Mike Smith: It was a great thing for racing to run in the Classic. They running her – I don’t think the Breeders’ Cup Classic would have been what it was without her in it, you know?

Eric Mitchell: I would not disagree with that.

Mike Smith: It really made the show.

Eric Mitchell: Wendy P. had another question. She just wanted to know – and as you said earlier, you mentioned the injuries that jockeys often get in your line of work. She wanted to know, maybe you talk a little bit about just the risks that they take and what can you do to try and avoid those risks or mitigate those risks.

Mike Smith: Well, you know, we had a tough year in racing as far as riders getting hurt this year. You look at Rene Douglas, he was paralyzed up in Chicago and Michael Straight and you had another good buddy, Dale Beckner getting hurt really, really bad up at Presque Isle. I mean it was just amazing how a good rider like Rene, who is the leading rider in Chicago and on top of the world and it just takes one race and it’s all over. That’s the scary part. And the other parts, you’re just really riding well and paying attention out there and staying physically, physically, physically fit. And I try to do all of the above and then some.

Eric Mitchell: Right. Well, very good. Well, we have run to the end of our questions. Again, I really appreciate your time. It’s been really terrific talking to you this morning.

Mike Smith: Thanks for having me.

Eric Mitchell: Again, a big congratulations on the victory in Zenyatta. I’m sure it’s going to be very interesting seeing how Horse of the Year shakes out. You make a strong case for her. And good luck with the rest of your career. I hope you continue to be healthy and that it’s a long one.

Mike Smith: Amen. Thank you.

Eric Mitchell: Ok. Thank you, Mike. We appreciate it.

Mike Smith: Thanks.

Eric Mitchell: You take care.

Mike Smith: Do the same. Bye-bye.

Eric Mitchell: Bye-bye.

Mike Smith Bio

Jockey Mike Smith

Blood-Horse Staff — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 17:54:00 GMT

Mike Smith, who just rode Zenyatta to a dramatic victory in the Breeders’ Cup Classic (gr. I), will be the next guest on bloodhorse.com’s popular Talkin’ Horses podcast.

With regular rider Smith aboard, Zenyatta ended her illustrious career undefeated in 14 starts while beating an international cast of male horses. It was an emotional and historic win for the pair as Zenyatta became the first of her sex to win the Classic and it propelled her into contention for Horse of the Year honors.

Smith, 44, a native Roswell, New Mexico, was elected into the National Museum of Racing’s Hall of Fame in 2003. He won Eclipse Awards as leading rider in 1993 and 1994, the year in which he won 20 grade I stakes and a record 68 stakes, eclipsing the previous record of 62 stakes he had set in 2003. He was leading rider in New York in 1991, 1992, and 1993. Additional honors include the Mike Venezia Award – 1991, 1992, 1993 – and the George Woolf Award in 2000.

Smith won the 2005 Kentucky Derby (gr. I) with 50-1 longshot Giacomo, who, like Zenyatta, was trained by John Sherriffs, with whom Smith has had a long working relationship since he relocated to Southern California in 2000.

Among the other top horses ridden regularly by Smith have been Azeri, Skip Away, Lure, Cherokee Run, Unbridled’s Song, Stardom Bound, Tiago, Prairie Bayou, Holy Bull, Thunder Gulch, Sky Beauty, Ajina, and Coronado’s Quest. In 1991, he became the first U.S.-based jockey to win a European Classic when Fourstars Alltar won the Irish Two Thousand Guineas (Ire-I).

In addition to his riding career, Smith has become one of the stars of the Animal Planet’s reality series “Jockeys,” as the successes and travails of him and his girlfriend, jockey Chantal Sutherland, have been chronicled for the program’s fans.

Please submit your questions for Mike Smith below. The podcast will be conducted Tuesday, Nov. 17, and the deadline for questions is 5 p.m. Monday, Nov. 16.

Linda Rice Podcast - Listen Now!

cdawahare — Tue, 13 Oct 2009 23:37:00 GMT

To listen to the podcast, click the PLAY button above.

Linda Rice bio

Transcript

Ron: This is Ron Mitchell of BloodHorse.com Talkin’ Horses podcast. Today, we’re privileged to have as our guest, Linda Rice.

Linda made history earlier this year when she became the first female trainer to win the training title at Saratoga, beating out Todd Pletcher for that title.

Linda, thanks for taking your time to join us.

Linda: You’re very welcome, Ron, I’m happy to do so.

Ron: First of all, I think as most of our readers and listeners know, you grew up in a horse family down in Florida. Can you just tell us briefly what you learned from that experience of your family’s background, working with horses from an early age?

Linda: Well, I am a third generation horse trainer and grew up in Pennsylvania, actually, and my father was the leading trainer for over ten years as I was a teenager, and by the time I… and I’ve got three older brothers and they’re all in the business and their families are in the business.

My family relocated to Ocala, Florida when I went off to college and that’s where they currently live now and they operate training centers there – breaking and training centers.

That’s how I got my start.

Ron: And I guess obviously that background is what prepared you for what eventually became your career.

Linda: Yes, it is.

Ron: Starting with the questions from our readers, this one is from Bill Hirsch, whom I believe is a client and a friend – Linda, congrats on winning the Spa training title. Has that success brought you additional business and what kind of social life do you have?

So two distinctly different questions there.

Linda: Yes, and that does not surprise me from Mr. Hirsch. Well, I’ve received some phone calls. Most of them are congratulatory calls, but I hope that in the coming year that I do find myself in a position to train maybe a little higher caliber horse, possibly some horses that will run a classic distance. So I hope that winning a training title will put me in a position to do that.

Ron: Your social life, if any?

Linda: My social life, frankly, someone like myself works too much so that’s (social life) limited.

Ron: I mean, would you like to change both things? Would you like to get a bump up in your business and a bump up in your social life?

Linda: {chuckles} Yes, actually I would. Obviously it’s a balancing act (personal life and work) and as far as my business goes, I’m not really trying to increase the volume of horses that I train, but more the caliber, and that’s what I’m looking for.

Ron: Next question – Which aspects of training do you like best – either working with the horses or the job itself and which do you like least?

Linda: The most rewarding to me is that I shop a lot of auctions weanlings, yearlings, 2-year-olds. I shop horses off of farms, and when I buy a horse, a young horse, possibly even a weanling, and then direct its career and develop it into a successful racehorse and then when it goes on to win stakes races and do well for myself and my clients, that’s very rewarding. It’s kind of like painting a Picasso, and I get a lot of reward out of that.

The worst, I would say, would be when we have a horse that has shown a lot of promise and we lose that horse due to an injury. It’s both a financial and an emotional loss for myself and my clients. That’s difficult.

Ron: So both of these really are the highs and lows – the highs being able to see a horse that’s a product of your program come up through the ranks and do well and then the other is what everybody hates to see.

Linda: Yes.

Ron: Next question – Which horse you have trained was the most talented, not necessarily the one that accomplished the most?

Linda: City Zip was probably the most talented horse I’ve had. He had the ability to outdo a horse on the lead like Speightstown in the Amsterdam at Saratoga, or he could run them down in the stretch as he did Yonaguska in the Hopeful Stakes at Saratoga. He could get started and stopped several times in a race and re-engage and he had a great desire to win.

Ron: So he really was talented and also turned out to be one of the best horses you’ve trained to date.

Linda: Yes, he was very unique.

Ron: This next question is from Olivia Newman – What advice do you have for aspiring women trainers? What challenges do you face being a woman trainer?

Linda: Well, I think that being any trainer, but also being a woman, I mean obviously you have to work hard at it. You can’t be discouraged easily. You have to pay attention to the financial end of it so that you can afford to get through the good times and the bad and that’s a big part of it.

Ron: And that would be advice for probably any aspiring trainer, regardless of gender.

Linda: Exactly.

Ron: Throughout your career, have you faced gender bias, since you are succeeding in a predominantly male profession?

Linda: Over the years, there’s been a few gender related issues that I have had to address along the way, but I find at the end of the day, people are really looking for results. As long as they’re getting good results, that takes care of any type of gender biases.

Ron: Next question is from Betty Ingerson. What is your least favorite part of being a trainer?

Linda: Probably one of my least favorite things is dealing with all the paperwork – whether it’d be workmen’s compensation issues, immigration issues, and Department of Labor issues that go along with running a stable. There’s going to be part of any business that you don’t enjoy and that’s probably the part that I enjoy the least, but it’s not going to all be fun.

Ron: Next question from R2L – I have an 18-year-old daughter who wants to be a trainer. She has ridden her whole life –show jumping, cross country -- and galloped Thoroughbreds since she was 14. What advice can you provide other than “it’s a hard life, don’t do it,” etc. She’s heard all that, but yet she’s passionate and determined to do what she loves.

Linda: Well I think if you’ve given her all the negatives and she still has the desire to do it, you should go ahead and help her and make sure she gets directed to some people that she could learn from and support her with her decisions.

Ron: And by that, would you suggest she go ahead and go to the racetrack, try to get on with a stable or a lower end job and just work her way up through the ranks?

Linda: I mean, myself, I was a rider, I broke and trained horses at a young age. In high school, I was breaking horses and riding horses for my father and it was just a natural progression. I’m sure they could contact some reputable stables and place her with someone like that.

The one thing that I always want to point out to them is typically it’s a seven day a week job, and vacations don’t come very often.

Ron: And I guess that by signing on with a stable, that will go ahead and give her the taste of whether she wants to go forward or not.

Linda: Yes.

Ron: Next question from Ingrid Beecher – Linda, congratulations! What an achievement! Describe the type of horse you most like to train and who was the best horse you trained that never got to prove how good he or she was?

Linda: Well, I don’t really have one type. It’s not colts, not fillies, not turf, not dirt. Frankly, despite the statistics or what most people may believe, it’s not a turf sprinter. I buy and shop a lot of horses. I’m always shopping for talent. I think that my greatest gift as a trainer is that I am quick to identify talented young horses, whether they are weanlings, yearlings, or 2-year-olds. I see it as my job next is to identify what they’re going to be good at, whether that’s short on the turf or long on the dirt, to identify that quickly and help them succeed in that arena. I don’t really have one type that I prefer; I just hope they’re good at something.

Ron: So you don’t feel like you could be typecast as one particular niche?

Linda: Frankly, I enjoy working with all of them no matter what their niche is as a horse and (that) they’re predisposed to be good at usually one thing.

Ron: And the second part of that – the horse you trained that never got to prove how good he or she was?

Linda: I had a 2-year-old filly I thought was brilliant – a filly that we lost to laminitis last summer. I felt that she was probably the best 2-year-old that I had since City Zip, and it was a real heartbreaker when we lost her in July before Saratoga last year.

Ron: You recall her name?

Linda: Yes, her name was Psycho DJ.

Ron: Next question is from Gene Roberts - Your stable of New York-breds demonstrated their strength and racing value running in the prestigious Saratoga meet. Do you work closely with the New York breeders?

Linda: Well I have focused on buying New York-breds for a lot of my clients to try and help them with the dollars and cents of this business and allow them to continue to participate in something that both I and they may love because there’s an added advantage to that as far as the purse structure (is concerend). And over the course of time, I’ve become familiar with a lot of New York breeders and I’m a member of the New York Thoroughbred Breeders as well and I am now training independently some New York breeders. Fortunately, that has occurred through time and it’s been good for my business.

Ron: Next question is from Jack. Did you train your horses differently this year for the Saratoga meet from previous years, or do you think the good weather kept a lot of the racing on the turf and that helped your program too?

Linda: Well I think that because I’m heavy in grass horses right now, that the good weather certainly helped me. You know, I wasn’t constantly running a horse off the turf that was much better on the grass (when races were switched from turf to dirt). So that was definitely a plus for me. But I also think that throughout the year, I’m constantly trying to put myself in a position to create more opportunity, whether that be with more horses and better horses, that I can lead over there that have a chance to win, improving my staff or the number of stalls that I have for stabling. So it’s a year-round process and throughout the year I’m trying to continue to move my stable forward, so there’s a lot that goes into it. So I think the weather helped but that’s just a part of the picture.

Ron: Or probably more than anything, it’s just that everything just came together at Saratoga.

Linda: Yes.

Ron: Next question from Jose. How do you feel now that you won the training title at Saratoga against one of the best trainers in the US, Todd Pletcher?

Linda: Well, I was certainly in good company, so it’s real honor to have won the training title there versus maybe at a smaller venue. Listen, I always knew I was good, now maybe a few other people think so too.

Ron: Next question from R. Patterson . How much longer before you bring a serious 3-year-old to Kentucky for the Derby?

Linda: Well right now, I don’t think that I have the right kind of horses in my stable to get to the Triple Crown races. It’s my hope that winning a training title and the recognition that I’ve gained this year will put me in a position to train more Triple Crown or classic distance type horses but I don’t see that necessarily taking place for this next season. I’m hoping that that will take place in the near future, though.

Ron: So I guess for like most trainers, Kentucky Derby is a goal for you?

Linda: Yes. I mean, I’d like to win the Kentucky Derby, the Travers, obviously the Triple Crown, but I’ll start one with leg at a time.

Ron: Also, what about prospects for this year’s Breeder’s Cup?

Linda: I have a few horses that I’m racing that there’s an outside chance that they will be Breeder’s Cup type horses. I have a City Zip filly, Canadian Ballet, that will race at Keeneland this weekend. If things go well we may venture to take her to the Breeder’s Cup Sprint on the turf. I also have a 2-year-old filly and a 2-year-old colt that could run in the mile on the turf as well. So, we’ll take one race at a time, though.

Ron: We look forward to seeing how that evolves. Next question is from Ed from Lexington. You’ve always had success with 2-year-olds. Do you attribute this to buying the type of horse you think will be predisposed to success at 2, or do you feel like you have a training style that enables you to get a horse to do well for you at 2, or both?

Linda: I think it’s a combination of both. I think that if a horse is genetically predisposed to be a good 2 year old (he will do well); if he’s not I can’t change that. On the flipside, I think that if he was meant to be a good 2-year-old and he’s in the wrong hands, that horse’s chances could be squandered.

Ron: And again, you don’t typecast yourself as a horse trainer of a particular kind of horse, but certainly you have had really good success with 2 year olds.

Linda: Well interestingly enough, my grade 1 winners that I’ve had have been the Spinaway with a 2-year-old filly and the Hopeful with a 2-year-old colt and two grade I’s -- Queen Elizabeth which was a 1-1/8 mile on the turf, and the Garden City 1-1/8 mile on the turf. So it appears by the numbers that 2-year-olds and grass horses is where I’ve had the most luck, but I want to keep that door open.

Ron: Next question is from Tom – Please be kind enough to share a little about yourself from a personal standpoint.

We may have already covered that because the second part is do you have a personal life? I don’t think many trainers do, do they?

Linda: Well I’m single. I live in Floral Park near Belmont Race Track. I don’t see enough of my family, and I probably work too much. But that’s typical of a horse trainer.

Ron: Do you have hobbies and are you able to have some semblance of a normal life?

Linda: Yes, of course. Usually in the winter when we’re not quite as busy, we’re shopping horse auctions. I’ll take the middle couple of months and do a little traveling and get caught up on a few things that don’t entail work. So usually November, December, January is a downtime for me and I get a chance to do a few other things.

Ron: So you do get to have some fun.

Linda: Yeah.

Ron: Next question from Wayne. I live in the Tampa area, I was wondering if you’re planning to take any horses there for Tampa Bay Downs in December. I know you have some roots there.

Linda: Yes. My family lives in Ocala, Florida, so it’s close but I stable at Palm Meadows, Gulfstream and Tampa. I find that it puts me in a position to race grass horses at a level they can compete. If the race is too tough at Gulfstream, I take them over to Tampa, and it also creates more opportunity for grass horses because, of course, you’re dealing with the weather as well and difficulty of getting in the entries. I race at both places, but I stable at Palm Meadows.

Ron: Tampa has a reputation, both tracks, of being pretty kind on horses.

Linda: Yes.

Ron: George Johnson says – I read where your father knew D. Wayne Lukas when he was just getting started. Were you around Wayne at those times and did you ever listen to your dad and Wayne talking horses?

Linda: No, actually my father and he are lifelong friends but my relationship with him is one of respect and admiration; it’s really not a personal one but he’s been a great role model for me.

Ron: Leonard Blush would like to know. How would you describe the current state of affairs in New York racing?

Linda: Well I think it’s politics at its worst, and I hope that we get to the end of that soon.

Ron: And by that would you mean just the fact that everything’s delaying the ability to have slots working at the race tracks?

Linda: Yes, that is correct. I am on the Horsemen’s Board in New York -- have been for three terms -- and you know we’re all sitting on the edge of our chairs waiting for them to select an operator. We have been waiting a long time, and I hope that that comes to an end.

Ron: I guess everyone thought the hard part of that was going to be able to get the slots legalized but it’s certainly been a lot longer since that happened.

Linda: Yes.

Ron: Next question from Gabby O’Toole. I’m a fan of one of your fillies, Mother Russia. Where is she being pointed to and is she a sweet filly?

Linda: She’s actually a tough filly. She was a handful as a 2-year-old. We had to work very hard at her gate schooling, she was difficult there. I’m pointing her towards a grade III at Keeneland, going around two turns. That would be the last race of the year for her. She struggles a little bit with distance but she does seem to handle it better around two turns than she does around one.

Ron: That’s all he questions I’ve got Linda. I really appreciate your time. Is there anything we didn’t cover that you would like to discuss?

Linda: I think that’s it, Ron.

Trainer Linda Rice

Blood-Horse Staff — Wed, 07 Oct 2009 16:36:00 GMT

Linda Rice, who edged out Todd Pletcher to become the first female trainer to win the Saratoga meet title, will be the next guest on bloodhorse.com’s Talkin’ Horses podcast.

Rice, 45, was born into a racing family in Racine, Wisconsin. Her father, Clyde Rice, is a former trainer who operates a training center in Ocala, Florida, and her mother, Jean, and brothers Wayne, Brian, and Curt are all involved in the horse industry.

After a two-year stint at Penn State University, where she was majoring in computer science, Rice became an assistant trainer and exercise rider for her father. She started her own stable in New Jersey in 1987 and won her first race with Contraboss at Garden State on June 3, 1987. She relocated to New York in 1991 and is currently a board member of the New York Thoroughbred Horsemen’s Association.

Among the top horses trained by Rice have been grade I winners City Zip, Lucifer’s Stone, Things Change, and Tenski.

In advertisements in trade publications following this year’s Saratoga meet, Rice thanked her extensive list of clients for their support and also commented on winning the training title. She also expressed gratitude to fans, horsemen, jockeys, and agents for their encouragement.

“I am sincerely honored not only to be the leading trainer at the Saratoga meet but also to be the first woman to win a training title at historic Saratoga Racecourse,” she wrote. “The race for the leading trainer title was a lot fun and created much excitement and enthusiasm for the racing industry and I was proud to be a part of it.

“And let’s not forget the horses,” she continued. “These beautiful animals are what this great sport is all about! In addition, I want to congratulate trainer Todd Pletcher on a fine meet and applaud his professionalism; he is a true credit to the industry and it was fun competing with him for the title.”

Tim Ice Podcast - Listen Now!

kreeves — Wed, 09 Sep 2009 12:26:00 GMT

To listen to the podcast, click the PLAY button above.

Tim Ice Bio

Transcript

Eric Mitchell (Exec. Editor, Digital Media): We want to welcome Tim Ice to BloodHorse.com's Talkin' Horses.

Tim, are you doing okay this morning?

Tim: I'm doing fantastic. Thank you.

Mitchell: Great. A quick little introduction to Tim. He is a native of East Liverpool, Ohio. He has lived in Louisiana since the age of fifteen and got introduced to racing at an early age by his late stepfather, Frank Rapp.

I guess now it's all about Summer Bird. We've got lots of great questions from the viewers of BloodHorse.com.

We'll start off with one we got from Lexington. This question says, "What do you do to keep the momentum going? I mean, you got off to such a fast start in your career. You've already won a Classic. Have you got any thoughts on how you keep it going or does it just seem to carry itself?"

Tim: Well, the one thing that I've learned over the years is you still have to stay focused and continue doing the same things that you've done to get to where you're at. As long as you don't change your routines, stay on the same course, and look at each individual as horses have their own different personalities, so you train each horse differently, but you stay focused and concentrate on one race at a time and don't look beyond that.

Mitchell: I've got a comment here from Leslie. She said, "Notice that Mine That Bird went out on the track, went for long slow exercises at Saratoga. I was wondering to know, do you have some type of specific exercise or workout program that you use with Summer Bird to maintain his fitness between races or get him ready for longer routes?"

Tim: Well, I mean, I've trained him the same from day one. He goes and he gallops his mile and a half. I'll give him a one mile jog before his mile and a half gallops. It's a matter of keeping him happy on the track as well as back at the barn. I think with him, it's just let him go out and give him as much time as he likes out there as far as his one mile jogs before we turn around and give him his mile and a half gallop.

Mitchell: Does he pay attention a lot to what's going on around him?

Tim: He is very keen as to his surroundings. He is a very focused horse. If he sees something, he'll dial in on it and look at it for 5-10 minutes, however long he can see it. He dials in on something; he's a very focused horse.

Mitchell: "How would you describe how Summer Bird has evolved?" This is a question from Hannah from Texas. She wants to know how Summer Bird has evolved since you got him through the Travers.

Tim: When we first got him in January, he was a little light on the muscle tone. He has changed dramatic. I've looked at his first couple of races all the way up to now, and he has gone from a boy to a man. Each race, I feel like he is getting stronger. His appearance definitely shows the maturity that he has developed over the past few months.

Mitchell: So you think that you haven't seen the best of him yet.

Tim: I really don't. I think that with each race, he is getting a little bit more out of it. Yeah, I don't know how much more improving he'll do. If he stays where he is at right now, we're still in pretty good shape; I do see this colt improving.

Mitchell: Have you all given any thought to next year; has there been any kind of commitment yet to whether he'll race at 4?

Tim: He will.

Mitchell: He will? Okay, that's good for all us. Super. So looking down the road, what's the next step for the colt?

Tim: The Jockey Club.

Mitchell: Okay, looking at the Gold Cup? Some owners have had some concerns about racing Breeders' Cup on the synthetic surface. Do you share any of those same concerns?

Tim: Well, I have mixed emotions about it, having that race two years in a row at Santa Anita doesn't seem quite fair but at the same time, there's nothing we can do about it.

The colt has nine works over that racetrack when he was out there from October to January, so it's not going to be a totally new surface for him. It's always a different story about how they're going to handle in the afternoon, but at the same time, he has adapted well to every track that he has gone to. It may take him a few days, but he adapts well to his surrounding.

Mitchell: Question here from Reta who wanted to know about his feet. She had heard some buzz about his feet requiring some additional attention. Can you tell us anything about that? Is there anything special you have to do with him?

Tim: No, it's like any horse... his feet are fine. I don't know where she heard it from, but there is nothing wrong with him obviously. They certainly looked good to me when he won the Travers.

They're fine. There is nothing special that I do to his feet. There is nothing - no special shoes or anything like that.

Mitchell: After the Belmont, I mean, can you share with us a little bit what it's like to suddenly find that you have a Belmont winner in your stable?

Tim: That's a great feeling to look in your stable and see that you have a Classic winner that has just won the Belmont. It was very exciting and it still is. I think with each race, he just makes you that much more excited.

Mitchell: Did your phone start ringing off the hook immediately?

Tim: It rang pretty good and it still rings. It's another one of those things where I have to stay focused on what I'm doing with him if I felt that I'm not doing my job.

Mitchell: Question here from Skye wanting to know conformation-wise, do you see similarities between Summer Bird and Birdstone?

Tim: No, I don't.

Mitchell: How are they different?

Tim: Well, first of all, one would be the size. Summer Bird is about 16-1. Birdstone I think was 15-3. So there's definitely a size difference and I obviously wasn't around Birdstone, so I don't know how his conformation as far as the legs and that stuff goes, but my horse is very correct. He's as correct as you would like to have a horse.

Mitchell: You had mentioned the possibility of relocating away from Louisiana Downs. I've got a question here from a Garner who wanted to know if you might have any suggestions for Louisiana Downs that might help them keep more successful trainers down at the track.

Tim: Well, one is to improve the quality of racing. It's hard to have a good horse there and the purses definitely hurt. The purses there aren't very high and without saying a whole... I don't want to knock the place, I don't want to put it down or anything, but it's not a place that I feel like I can improve the quality of my barn by staying there, so I think first of all, Louisiana Downs needs to improve the quality of racing and offer more purse money.

Mitchell: Do you have any ideas where you may relocate your barn to?

Tim: At this point right now, I'm looking at a couple of different racetracks - we still have to make it through the winter - but looking at Belmont Park and looking at Monmouth Park as far as a couple of different racetracks up here on the East Coast.

Mitchell: This is an interesting question from someone that said, "Following the Haskell, you reportedly ate at Chili's with the Jayaramans. Where did you eat following the Travers win?"

Tim: The Travers win, I ate at a place called Sergio's, a family style restaurant, Italian. It was very good food.

Mitchell: People want to know all kinds of stuff about you.

Tim: Yeah.

Mitchell: How did you get started in racing? I know the bio here says that you got introduced from your late stepfather. What was it that really hooked you on the sport?

Tim: I think the more time I spent around them, I just fell in love with the sport of racing and horses and really developed a relationship to the sport as far as something that I felt very strong about and wanted to spend my life around horses.

Mitchell: What was that first step? Did you walk hots, did you work as a groom - did you do all that?

Tim: I started out cleaning stalls, walking horses, moved up to grooming horses, and then obviously after I graduated high school, it wasn't six months out of high school when I took out my assistant trainer's license. I started at the bottom, just cleaning stalls.

Mitchell: That was all in Louisiana?

Tim: Correct.

Mitchell: Was that at Louisiana Downs?

Tim: It was actually at a training center, it was Hurricane Bluff. I wasn't of age to work on the racetrack at that point, so my stepfather - we had horses on the farm and of course, that's how I was introduced into it, but I started for him cleaning stalls and moved my way up.

Mitchell: Now I see that you worked for a time with Keith Desormeaux. Is that what made the connection with Kent?

Tim: Correct. I was out in California from 1995 to 1999 doing the California circuit with Keith and obviously, built a relationship around him and around Kent.

Mitchell: We had a couple of questions on people asking about how you got into your career. If you had to offer any advice to someone who wanted to break into the training of thoroughbred horses, what would that be?

Tim: Well, I think the first thing would be starting out at the bottom. You know, Rome wasn't built in a day. I think that your training career - you've got to work your way up where you can appreciate even the lowest part of the job which - I mean, nobody wants to go in and clean stalls every morning but I think that if you start your way on the bottom and work your way up, and each day you try to learn something new about the business and about the horses. So I think if you're new into the business that you start off going and cleaning stalls, walking horses, and build your way up.

It takes a lot of dedication. You have to love horses. You have to be able to come in to work every day and just appreciate the fact that you get to work around these incredible animals.

Mitchell: Absolutely. One question from Matt. He says, "If your colt ends up winning the Gold Cup and the Classic, do you think he is the definitive Horse of the Year?"

Tim: I'm not going to argue the fact that Rachel Alexandra is Horse of the Year. For her to do what she has done, I think that - she'd beat me by six lengths and I think that she deserves Horse of the Year on what she has accomplished, so I'll be very happy to have the 3-Year-Old Colt of the Year.

Mitchell: Take that honor any day, right? Since we're talking about Rachel, what was your impression of her Woodward?

Tim: I thought that she was a very, very game winner. They pushed her four or five different times at different points in the race and for her to still outlast Macho Again showed a tremendous amount of heart and determination in her. She is almost like an iron horse. If you're a fan of racing and you can appreciate the sport, you'd have to love what she has done.

Mitchell: We have a question here from someone in Ireland wanting to know if there was one particular person you could point to who helped you the most in getting established in the sport and teaching you what you needed to know.

Tim: I couldn't point out one person. I would have to say that each person that I've worked for and come up under has taught me one or two things about the sport that has helped me along. It would be unfair for me to say one person, because really I've taken something from everybody that I've come up under and have even been around, whether I've worked for them or not. So I think that I would have to mention all the names above, from my stepfather all the way to Keith to Cole Norman to Morris Nicks, and other people that are in the sport that I did come up under. I couldn't just mention one name because I think it's just being in the sport long enough that each day you learn something and it just wouldn't be fair for me to say one person.

Mitchell: How long have the Jayaramans had horses with you?

Tim: They actually helped me get started. I've been training for them for well over a year now. They were with me when I first opened up my stable, so they were a big help into me getting the horses and for a while, they're the only ones who had horses with me, so I have a tremendous amount of appreciation for them in what they have done to help me get to where I am.

Mitchell: That kind of makes the Belmont or this horse all the more special, I would guess, since you had some owners that were faithful to you and kept horses with you, that must have really been icing on the cake.

Tim: It is. To win these races for the Jayaramans has been great. For them to help me get started in this and show the trust that they've put into me - when we first started out, we went through some really hard times. The horses weren't running as well as they should have been when we first started, but they've come around from the first of the year. I thought we had a really good meet at Oaklawn, and it just built from there. So to win these races for them has been very special.

Mitchell: How did you meet them?

Tim: I met them when I was the assistant for Cole Norman who was training for them and was able to build sort of a little relationship with them when I was under Cole, and when I decided it was time for me to go out on my own, I called them up. They hadn't had any horses at Louisiana Downs at the time, and I asked them if they were interested in having any more horses there, we met, and they started sending me horses.

Mitchell: How many horses did they send you in that first round, if you will?

Tim: When they first started, they sent me two and then about two or three weeks later, they sent me four. By the end of the summer, I think I had eight to ten horses for them.

Mitchell: What do you think happened in that Oaklawn meet? You said things were tough there in the beginning. You had a good Oaklawn meet. Is there anything you can attribute that turnaround to?

Tim: Well, most of the horses there when we came in were two-year-olds - some of them weren't really ready to run, but it was getting close then to the Louisiana Downs meet, so we kind of run them when they weren't ready, but I think that a lot of it has to do with some of those horses were wanting to run a little bit further and at the time, the races at Louisiana Downs were going short. It's hard to get two-year-olds going long even at the end of the year at Louisiana Downs. So I think it was just a matter of giving the horses enough time where we can have them ready to run. By Oaklawn, we had them all set and ready to fire and they did.

Mitchell: Then things kind of came together, the horses are maturing, they're learning more, you get at a track where you get a chance to run a little bit longer, so everything starts falling into place that way?

Tim: Correct.

Mitchell: Okay. I've got a question here from Steve who says, "Horses spend a lot of time in their stalls. What do you do to keep them happy?"

Tim: Well, I get my horses out. When they come back after the track, I let them go out and graze for 20 to 30 minutes, and then I get them back out in the afternoon. Let them walk a little bit, let them go, take them back out and let them graze. I try to keep them stress free as much as I can. I mean, they're still spending 21 to 22 hours a day in the stall even when I can get them out, but I think that getting them out in the afternoon helps mentally. It gets them out of the stall and they enjoy going out and grazing obviously. So I try to do as much as possible to keep them happy.

Mitchell: Well certainly grazing is what they do naturally, so it has got to help them mentally.

Tim: Right.

Mitchell: I've got a question here from Olivia. She makes a general comment here about there has been a lot of talk about today's modern thoroughbred is not as durable as thoroughbreds of the past. Do you have any sort of insights on working with horses over time? Do you feel that horses aren't quite as durable as they used to be?

Tim: I don't think that they are as durable. I think that the pressures of training these horses to make these races kind of makes them fragile. You look at some of the horses from a long time ago and they did run many more times than the horses today, but I think that the market right now as far as keeping horses around, the pressures of trying to get them to run, and the things that you're doing that some horses can't take as much pressure training as they did back then. I wish I knew what they did back then when they were hanging around a little longer, but we're in the day that you try to nurse them along as much as you can and did everything that you can do to possibly expand the horse's career, but I wouldn't be able to say for sure why they don't hang around longer today than when they did back then, because I wasn't around.

It's unfortunate that the injuries happen to these horses. Every time you see one that falls off of the Triple Crown trail or any of these big races, you feel bad for them, but the one thing that you have to keep in mind is that it could be you and I think that as far as - I don't think it has anything to do with horsemanship. I think that there are a lot of great horsemen in today's era and I feel that it's different times. I don't know as far as the racetracks go or anything like that, but that is a tough question.

Mitchell: Certainly with year-round racing, that's just got to add to it.

Tim: Right. I mean, you look at all these horses, they don't get breaks. You're trying to make every race every time, and you can't dance every dance.

Mitchell: I have only a couple more questions for you. You've been really terrific. I appreciate again your time.

I got a question here from Donald Williams. He says, "Horses come back and repeat their wins only 18% of the time." - I'm not sure about that statistic, but that's the statistic he threw out there - "As a trainer, how do you account for that?"

Tim: I think it's the quality of horses that are around. It doesn't make a division week if there's a different horse winning each different time they run together. I think that it just shows you that there are a lot of quality horses out there on any given day that one of them could step up and win. It's tough to keep a horse in peak form, but I think it's as much the competition as it is the fact that they - it's not that they're not competing or doing well, because I'll bet your dollar that 18% that you're looking at and saying what the percentage over that horse running second or third and it probably makes the statistic go higher, but I think it's competition that there's enough good horses that are running that any of them could win.

Mitchell: A question here from Tanzkd wanting to know about any sort of personality quirks, anything about Summer Bird around the barn that you can share with us.

Tim: He has a great personality. He is very photogenic. He loves his picture taken. When he comes out in the afternoon, he'll stand and stare something down for 20 minutes, 30 minutes. He is a great horse to be around and a horse that has a great mind. He takes his naps during the day. He takes care of himself pretty well.

Mitchell: That's a great horse to have, one that's taking care of himself.

Tim: Yes.

Mitchell: Well, Tim, that's all the questions we have for you. Again, thank you very much for your time. I appreciate it. Best of luck to you in the Gold Cup.

Tim: Thank you.

Mitchell: We'll be looking for you out at Santa Anita, too.

Tim: I'll be out there.

Mitchell: Tim, thanks again.

Tim: All right, thank you.

Tim Ice

Blood-Horse Staff — Wed, 02 Sep 2009 16:59:00 GMT

Trainer Tim Ice has gone from being a relatively unknown trainer based in Louisiana to one of the shining young stars in the profession, largely due to the Belmont Stakes (gr. I) and Shadwell Travers (gr. I) successes of Summer Bird.

A native of East Liverpool, Ohio who has lived in Louisiana since age 15, Ice became acclimated to racing at an early age by his late stepfather, trainer Frank Rapp. He paid his dues over the years, serving as an assistant to a number of trainers, including Cole Norman, Ralph Nicks, and Keith Desormeaux, whose brother, Kent, has ridden Summer Bird to his best victories.

Ice finally struck out on his own in spring 2008, getting a boost from Summer Bird’s owners – Drs. Kalarikkal K. and Vilasini Devi Jayaraman. Ice, who celebrated his 35th birthday June 6 by saddling Summer Bird to win the Belmont, is the trainer of one other stakes winner, the Jayaraman’s Affirmed Truth.

Although he has gotten his career off to a good start from his Midwest base, Ice had indicated before the Belmont he would consider relocating to an area where the opportunities and purses were more plentiful. His quick success will make that possibility a lot likelier.

Ice will be the featured guest on bloodhorse.com’s Talkin’ Horses podcast scheduled for Tuesday, September 8. Questions will be taken until 5 p.m. Monday, September 7.

Jim Squires Podcast - Listen Now!

Blood-Horse Staff — Wed, 19 Aug 2009 17:36:00 GMT

To listen to the podcast, click the PLAY button above.

Jim Squires Bio

Transcript

This is Ron Mitchell, moderator of bloodhorse.com’s Talkin Horses podcast. Today, we’re privileged to have journalist, horse breeder and author Jim Squires as our guest.

Assuming our listeners and readers have read Jim’s background, we’ll go right to the chat.

As many of you know, Jim has just come out with his latest book which is titled – this is a mouthful– Headless Horsemen: A Tale of Chemical Colts, Subprime Sale Agents, and the Last Kentucky Derby on Steroids.

Good morning and welcome, Jim.

Jim: Good morning, Mr. Mitchell; how are you?

Ron: Very well. First of all, after Monarchos won the Derby, you wrote a feel good book romanticizing the horse industry. Now, you’ve come back with another book which takes a bit of a more critical eye. The obvious question is: why did you write this book and what do you hope to accomplish from its publication?

Jim: Well, I really did not intend to write a second book to balance off the romanticism of the first. The first book was a lovely book about the best parts of our business. Last year when Eight Belles broke down at the Derby, it was the latest in a series of terrible accidents on the racetrack in front of a television audience. We seemed to be headed toward a public relations disaster for years and in our public statements, the money we spent marketing our sport and as a result of this latest thing, we looked as headless as any industry I have ever seen.

If you remember what happened, Eight Belles was immediately linked to the history of drug abuse in our industry which has been a problem for years; it was nothing new to the people in our industry but the people outside our industry thought Eight Belles was some kind of drugged steroid horse and in major publications, including the Washington Post, a very wonderful columnist who likes us, likened that day at Churchill Downs to the Christians being fed to the lions for the benefit of well-coiffed mint julep sipping crowd, which was just outrageous.

Some of us thought (we should) explain to the media what had happened there and that Eight Belles was not a drugged horse, that the trainer was one of the real shining stars of our industry, a very trustworthy trainer, who did not use drugs and that this horse was not a drugged horse and that the trainer and the jockey were not responsible. We tried to explain this. The industry’s reaction to that was we need to hire a public relations firm to speak for us. Well, that’s basically the same kind of approach that corporate America takes , (that) most institutions takes: ‘let’s just spin the good news and not talk about the bad.’ And they actually were critical of people who answered press calls to try to explain what had happened there that day. So we were reeling around without any leadership at all in the next few weeks.

Then later in the year, (trainer) Larry Jones and I were both stunned by a clenbuterol drug positive, in Delaware, on my horse, which seemed (like a) very ironic and extraordinary event because I had never had one and in Larry’s entire 20-year career, he had never had one. So we thought that we may have very well been the victim of some kind of sabotage in order to undermine us as critics of the drug policy.

Those two things together made me interested in trying to explain what is going on in this business and what we might do to fix it. This industry is not opaque and you can’t see into it. and the lack of transparency has resulted in a very misguided view of us by the political establishment and by fans and our bettors.

Ron: Do you offer solutions to how to overcome this in your book?

Jim: The book is basically an essay about what is wrong and what we might do to fix it. It is not simply my view, but the view of a longstanding group of reformers who believe that unless we change our structure and change our business model and change our culture, that we aren’t going to get any better, that we’re going to get worse, and a lot of people involved in this movement believe the only way to do that is to come up with some kind of structure in the business that lets someone lead it.

I mean, the real message of the book is that even though we have a lot of very well intentioned people at the top who have the most influence, the structure prevents anyone from leading the business. We are not organized like other sports; we are mainly a social order with various stratas and within each strata – the trainers, the owners, the breeders, the veterinarians and the establishment – we all struggle for status in those various stratas, but no one speaks for the whole and we don’t know how to get that structure done any other way than through some federal legislation that would basically say “Hey, we hear you are organized like the other sports.” We either need to organize ourselves like that or somebody needs to do it for us.

Ron: Of course, many of these things have come up over the past several decades, (with some) even calling for some kind of centralized structure within the industry. Should we be fearful of government intervention in this industry or do you see it as the ultimate outcome here?

Jim: Well, I think that most of the reformers would hope that the pressure being brought as a result of the tragedies that occur on television and with essays, like this book, and the kind of publicity that we get that we don’t want from lawsuits and other problems in the industry, would force us to do it ourselves. We haven’t been able to do it ourselves. I don’t think anyone wants the government to run horse racing. I certainly don’t. I don’t think the government is capable of running much of anything.

Our status in the industry is pretty much a reflection of the rest of society. I mean, we do not have the leaders that act for the benefit of the whole. They may think they do and in our case, we have some good people at the top but they don’t have the authority to do this. If we could somehow give ourselves the authority to do it ... other countries have done it. The British Jockey Club rules are strictly enforced and are honored and obeyed, and they seem to do a much better job of this than we do. And I’m sure they don’t want the government run sports either, but you probably have to have it written down in some form of legislation and some method to comply. We have a lot of voluntary codes of conduct and statements of good intentions and almost no ability to follow through. We can’t investigate our drug problems. We can’t police our tracks. We cannot ensure what we say we want to do.

Ron: What has been the reaction from the establishment and those you criticize in the book?

Jim: Well, the people who are interested in reform have been very positive and forthcoming. The people who describe themselves as leaders and believe they are leaders and are, in fact, in the position to lead have said very little, if anything. And if they have, it hasn’t come back to me but I would imagine that there’s some unhappiness in some quarters. In any business – in any institution -- there is this reluctance to have bad news but there is nothing in this book that everybody in our business did not already know.

The political establishment views us a playground for the wealthiest people in the world and we have, in fact, with our marketing, emphasized that. We present ourselves as a high status society that needs no help from any place and that is false picture of our industry. Our industry is very much a reflection of the rest of the American economy in that it is a highly unprofitable business and basically is subsidized by the discretionary income of the wealthiest people in the world. And 80% or better, probably 90%, of people in the horse business just struggle to stay in place, and it’s certainly true in the breeding industry.

I suspect that leaders who are singled out in this book, despite all their good intentions, realize that this is not an inaccurate picture of where we are. Now whether they like me doing it is another question.

Ron: Right. That brings us to a question from Marie: With one more negative piece on Thoroughbred racing being sent out to the general public, you’re putting another nail in our coffin. I’m sure you think you’re helping by being a whistleblower but how do you feel about your book potentially doing more damage than good and turning off even more people from the sport?

Jim: Well, I think that no matter what we do, if we don’t clean ourselves up and present a better picture to the public, we are never going to do any good. Hiding the truth has never been a good idea in any industry. I think this is a big ship that turns slowly in the water and this basically is just simply a follow-up to the congressional hearings from last year. We’ve had some congressional hearings last year in which some very important people in this business -- and who love it as much as I do and have been in it even longer -- said a lot worse things about it than I have said. That seemed to just blow away. That’s what we want to do -- let the criticism just blow away. As a result of that, we ended up with a lot of voluntary codes of conduct rules that we were going to follow if, in fact, we want to. Nothing really much has changed in the sense of our ability to get anything done.

We had a beginning with this. I mean, there has been progress made and things like track surfaces and model drug rules that are being adopted. So we had a start and this is simply an effort to keep that ball rolling. There are a lot of people in the business who think that this is a positive step and not a negative one.

Ron: So in other words, confront it rather than just hoping that it goes away with time.

Jim: You know, we have presented a false picture of ourselves to the country. The political establishment never wants to help us. We are looked upon as a source of tax revenue and pretty much and getting any reasonable assistance and recognition from them for what we are has been impossible and I think we need to get some.

Ron: Next question is from Kathy: I applaud what I’ve read so far about your book but I must ask, at what level do you plan to remain in the thoroughbred business? As someone who was an insider in another breeder organization, I well know that once a person starts rocking the boat, unless they have mega bucks to shield them, they we get steamrolled.

Jim: Well, I think I’ve been pretty much steamrolled already but that’s simply been the way the business works. I mean, this is a very difficult business at almost every level. Whether you are an owner or breeder or run a racetrack, just staying in place is very, very difficult. I have been able to stay in place and earn a living and cash flow my farm for over 15 years, and I consider myself very lucky to have done that and so I don’t know that I’ll be able to do that in the future. I have had to scale back dramatically in my numbers, but mainly because this industry, for some reason, thought it’s immune to the laws of supply and demand. I mean, everything we’ve done to present our face to the public said “come in please and breed more horses and you have a great chance to make a million dollars.” Well, the best way to become a millionaire in this business is to have five million when you come in.

Ron: Next question is from Ernie: Why is fraud not considered illegal in the Thoroughbred business?

Jim: Well, that’s one of the really important parts of this book. You know, no one in here is accused of doing anything illegal. There is nothing illegal about what the basic tenants of our culture. I mean, ingrained in our culture seems to be this road to deception, how much money can we make off the next new guy who comes in here. It has rolled over into the veterinary part of our business to the point where any new owner who comes in here, even if he’s lucky enough not to be frisked on the way in by the people who sell and trade in horses, that he will ultimately get frisked by the outrageous cost of owning a Thoroughbred. (It’s) because we are viewed as a group of very wealthy playground people. And even if they come to your farm, to work on your farm ... I mean, they stick you for the services that you get because you’re viewed as having a lot of money when in fact, most of us do not run profitable businesses.

The real problem in this industry is these gross sales were going up and these multimillion dollar horses are being advertised as the face of our business and presented as what we’re about; 60-70-75% of our yearlings are unprofitable. You have to go sell one horse in order to cover the losses on 10 others that you have, or 5 others. So it’s not an easy business to survive in and it’s going to get worse if we don’t do something about it.

Ron: It almost sounds like what you’re describing there is a house of cards that’s getting ready to fall.

Jim: Well, it may have already fallen. I mean, you still have this action at the top which you will always have. I guess that’s why they call it the sport of kings. The problem is the subculture underneath, trying to behave and act like this top. There are a lot of people who come into our business who want to buy the most expensive horse and who want people to know that they can drop $10 million on a yearling. But underneath, there is this constant reach that you see in the rest of society. I don’t think that we’re much different than the rest of society in the sense that we have become a fast buck, quick return kind of business. It has not been good for the horse, it has not been good for the breeding industry and in the long run, it is not good for the sales companies and the people who do make money in this business.

There are some institutions that make money. Sales companies make money. Transportation companies make money. Veterinarians make money. But if we continue to go down the road we’re going, none of those people are going to be making money either.

Ron: So it’s in their best interest to try to come to some kind of terms for logical restructuring of the business.

Jim: Well, I think that its time has come. I mean the economy was not in this bad a shape as it is now when I wrote the book. The book was written last fall before the total collapse came. But I think that all along, the goal has been to attract into this business new owners and new fans and make people come to the racetrack.

If people actually come to the racetrack, they will fall in love with the animals and the sport, just like all of us have that are in it; but if you bring them in here and then you mistreat them (as we do regularly), they will not come. If you want new owners, we have to put them into a sport that has a structure, that has some ability to police itself, that spends its money on improving the quality of life for the horses and for the people in it, and is not going to waste it all on marketing (the idea) that we’re all rich and you can make a million dollars tomorrow.

Ron: Sounds like a pretty basic concept, Jim.

Jim: Well, you think it would be, but for some reason it does not work for us.

Ron: Next question comes from Vin-man : It seems that just about everyone in the horse industry has to be licensed except bloodstock agents. Do you think it is time for bloodstock agents to be licensed and bonded?

Jim: I don’t want to just pick on the bloodstock agents. There is a subculture in our business of bloodstock agents that are just out to make money. They are very much like the coupon clippers on Wall Street who never touch a horse and don’t own any farm and have no overhead, and it’s just the next deal that they get a commission on that really matters.

I don’t think licensing them does much for us. I mean I don’t care if they have to get a license. If we’re going to license people in this business, they ought to have to pass rigorous licensing requirements and then there ought to be some structure to enforce the rules and police the license. I mean, licensing them and not being able to then follow up and make sure they comply with what they’ve agreed to do is something entirely different.

This is the purpose of this book. We ought to spend our money improving our operation and then we can sell it to the public. And until we can have some kind of structure that can pull that license – I mean, we can’t depend on state governments or the federal government to police our business, we have to do it ourselves. Look at NASCAR and pro football and pro basketball. They have very responsible, well qualified and well financed police functions within their sport to police themselves, and we need to do it too. We’re not necessarily talking about illegalities that you get a state law passed against or a federal piece of legislation. We’re talking about behavior and complying with codes of conduct and rules of the game. Our rules of the game variy from state to state, from day to day, from new governor to new governor around the country, and we just don’t have any kind of central structure to let things work in a positive fashion for us.

Ron: What you just hit on was the fact that we’re at the whim of different political structures in every state and all the stakeholders and all the different entities that go into making up this industry has been viewed as one reason that we can’t have any kind of anything centralized office. But frankly, when you looked at the NFL or major league baseball, they operate in a lot of different states and they’ve been able to figure out how to get this centralized.

Jim: They don’t depend on their governments to do it for them. They basically turn their business over to independent professionals. I mean the commissioner of baseball traditionally has been a czar. He was able to keep people from buying franchises or even being in the game. That kind of function in a sport is critical. Even those sports can get corrupted but they certainly have less of a problem with it than we do.

Ron: Next question comes from someone who is probably about as outspoken as you are and it’s Barry Erwin: Jim, are you positive or negative on the future ability of horse racing to conduct contests on a high level of competition?

Jim: I think they can conduct contests on a high level of competition. I think it’s the middle and the bottom that’s in serious trouble and where the worst abuses occur and where the horses face the greatest risk and the people have the worst quality of life. As the sport of kings, it will probably always exist because very rich people will put up a lot of money to run their horses against the horses of other rich people.

And if that’s the future of the sport, I think it’s probably guaranteed. But if you’re trying to keep all of these tracks and trainers and veterinarians and hay suppliers in business and you’re trying to keep the Kentucky breeding industry at the level it has been in the world, you cannot do it with the present structure. I am positive about the relationship between man and horse, and I’m positive about racing and I think you are seeing at some level. The Breeders’ Cup, there’s a lot to criticize about the Breeders’ Cup and its structure and its history. I don’t put it all in the book. There is some in there about it but having said that, the Breeders’ Cup is making strides for one day of racing. They can enforce rules on one day – they can test all the horses, they can police their grounds, they can do a lot of good things on one big promotional day.

That’s kind of like a lottery. People put up a lot of money and then some other people compete for it. But the people who are putting that money up are mainly the breeders of horses, most of whom don’t get to play that day. We’re lucky to get a seat.

So it can be done at the highest level with discretionary income from the wealthiest people. But we can’t fix the future of the claiming races and the small tracks in Kentucky and a lot of the things that are ailing us now will not be fixed unless we do something about it.

Ron: Next question comes from Abby Hart: As a man who has worked hard to enter the thoroughbred industry, made an impact on the breed as a breeder when coming from a working background, what would you say to a young person eager to dabble in thoroughbred breeding to make an impact on the horse and not just for profit?

Jim: Well, I think that’s another core reason for writing a book. This book is from a breeder’s point of view. I have only been breeding thoroughbred horse about 15, 16 years but I’ve been breeding horses for nearly 40 years of one kind or another. I deliver my own foals and I’m there when my horses die and I teach my babies how to walk and lead. So I am a hands-on breeder. There are more people like me than there are of those breeders whose names are on the breeding certificate who do not touch the horses.

So when I speak as a breeder, I’m talking about the horseman who kneels down behind his mare to pull the baby out. It seems to me that one of the casualties of the way we’ve been operating. The natural great classic thoroughbred that made Kentucky the source and the cradle of this business, where this is where the great horses came from, it’s where people come from all over the world to buy them, and it’s one of the things I’m trying to protect.

I think we’ve gotten away from that rather dramatically in the last 10 or 15 years, in much the same way the stock market got away from its traditional goals. The American stock market became a fast buck of “what can I do in the next 60 days, what kind of fraudulent derivative of stocks can I concoct that will suck all the money out of the system and make me rich.” They’ve figured out how to do that and they almost brought the world economy down.

We have done something very much like that in horse breeding. We have gone away from the horse that made us what we are and we went for a different kind of horse that grows very fast, that is very heavily muscled, that can run down the track in less than 10 seconds and get a furlong in less than 10 seconds, or two furlongs in 21 seconds, faster than a racehorse ever has to run in their entire life, and we’ve made that the kind of horse that we need to breed in order to make a buck in this business.

The natural horse that grew up on Kentucky grass and hay and water, and spent most of its time outside is fading into the background. You can buy those for $7,500 and $10,000, much less than their stud fees, or around their stud fees, all over the country. In fact, they will give them to you now if you want those kinds of horses.

We want a very particular kind of horse that is absolutely clean on x-rays, that looks like an Adonis and represents about 10% or 15% of the foal crop. We spend all the money on those and then we take them to the racetrack and we watch Mine That Bird -- who weighs about 900 pounds -- win the Derby. So, I think we’ve been going in the wrong direction and we need to go back to the natural horse.

Ron: Did you find your own mindset change when you transitioned from quarter horse breeding to Thoroughbred breeding along this line? In fact, you had to think more from a business point of view than from just a natural point of view of breeding and working with horses.

Jim: When I was breeding quarter horses, I didn’t have to make a living at it. I had a job, and I had it in an industry -- not unlike the one I’m in now -- one that was opaque and blind to it’s own foibles. But when I started racing Thoroughbreds, I saw that there was a potential for at least cash flow in my farm. But I’ve been cash flowing my farm, and surviving for 15 years without following the herd to breed the sale horse. I’ve bred a horse to win the Kentucky Derby and to go to England and run on grass and win the Arc, and as a result of that, I have not been a successful businessman in the thoroughbred industry. I have been a successful breeder. My horses will go to the racetrack, they win, they’re sound, they have a high percentage of winners to foals and graded stakes horses. We’ve only had a few mares. The only time I ever made a breeding decision based on what I thought the market wanted was when I planned to sell a mare and foal because I knew it would help. And I had to do that in some instances for some of my clients/customers who wanted to sell their horse. My mares that I have bred, I have always bred on the basis of the horse I wanted to get and not what I thought I would get in the market.

Ron: The next question comes from Michael. After viewing the results of the yearling sales so far this year, what are you expecting from the upcoming Keeneland sale?

Jim: Well, I suspect that it will be like all the other sales of the last 10 years or so and that all the money will be spent at the top for a few horses and that there will be an overwhelming number of unprofitable yearlings pass through the ring at Keeneland. I don’t why that would change since that’s been going on for years. It went on even in good economic times when we were telling everybody about how much the average had gone up and the gross has come up and presenting a basically false picture of the health of this industry.

I suspect that the picture that we get in September is going to look pretty much like what we saw at the end of last year and what’s happened so far this year.

Even though it’s very important to us, it’s a sad commentary on our business when one or two buyers have to hold up the average and the median in the market – they’re spending a lot of money for their own horses that are bred by their own stallions.

We’ve been living off really tremendous investments by Sheikh Mohammed and over the years from the Irish Coolmore group. Those prices have driven up our averages and our medians to unrealistic places. I think we’re going back to a much more realistic value on the horse. Now whether or not we can get them to be profitable again is another question. I don’t know how to do that.

Ron: So it’s almost like a false economy within this industry.

Jim: Well, I think it has been and people don’t like to hear that. You know, that is not what the sales companies want to hear and it’s not what the Jockey Club wants to hear or TOBA or any of the people who are out trying to get new owners. They want to present this as a great high social order where you can come in and have a great time and spend a lot of money and, in some instances, make a lot of money. They are right about that part of the business. It is romantic. It is exciting. It’s a wonderful sport to be involved in. But the bottom is crumbling and eventually ... I don’t know what you do with all the horses you have.

I mean, we have no ideas who is ever going to buy them. They’re going to buy a few and they’re going to spend a lot of money on a few but the rest of them ... or I think it has to retrench. I’m afraid that the Kentucky breeding industry is going to be a lot smaller and it’s going to have to be for us to ever recover.

Ron: Yes, there will probably be some jobs lost in that transition but it would certainly, one would think, be an overall healthier, more stable industry.

Jim: Well, you know there is a central question in this business ... you know, (owners in) minor league baseball very seldom make any money. For racetracks, even very successful ones, the financial model for is not good. It is not a good business in the sense of business models. But most sports rely on the top to subsidize the bottom. We do that now in a haphazard personal kind of way. We have to figure out a way if we want to bottom first – do we want a bottom, do we want the small tracks, do we want the $2,500, $5,000 claiming horses, do we want to support those backsides? If we do, then we have to figure out a way that the top can support the bottom.

The money comes in to this business in two ways: the discretionary income of wealthy people who invest in horses and give to our charities and then the betting public that puts the money into the race and that bets on us every day. We have to figure out how to best use that money. My position is let’s use it to: first of all, to decide what kind of business we want to be and then to make that part attractive. If we want the bottom, we have to figure out a way to subsidize it.

There are 54,000 races run every year in North America. People who do the numbers – and we’re in a numbers game always – say that the business could attract just as much money from bettors and the racetracks that do even better if you had just 7,500 races or 8,000 races. Now if that’s the model you want, think about all the horses and all the people that are going to have to drop out of this business for that to be.
That is a future that’s looking at us, so we have to be careful about who owns the racetracks and who makes these decisions. And right now, our biggest problem is we can’t make any decisions that help the whole. We can make decisions that help various segments of the industry but we cannot make decisions that deal with questions of that magnitude.

Ron: Next question : Jim, I’ve read a few reviews of your book and they point out that you have some errors in it. Do you think this will take away from the message you’re trying to send?

Jim: Well, you know, when you go looking for errors in a book that are typos and bad dates, or something like that, which seem to be what these people who have reviewed the book have mentioned, you are looking for pee in the ocean. I have reviewed dozens and dozens of books for newspapers and book reviews around the country and I don’t ever remember looking for a misspelling or a misdate in an effort to discredit the author and the book. They will look for any reason to discredit this book.

The Herald Leader was the one that pointed out a lot of errors in the book. The people who review these books are, for the most part, journalists in the business who have watched this go on for a long time and have for one reason or another been unable to report it. So there is a personal concern about that. I would assume they’re saying, “Hey, don’t believe this book because it’s got some errors in it and so don’t believe its overall message. “ That’s some kind of personal thing.

I don’t like errors. For 30 years, I was in the newspaper business and for 19 of those, I was an editor responsible for publishing a book every day. And I was never successful at publishing that book every day without some errors creeping in. You know, most of the things that I have seen cited in my book has an error, were things that I couldn’t possibly remember on my own. I don’t trust my own memory on what year some horse won the Kentucky Derby. So I look those things up and I look them up in the databases of our industry and in many instances, I’m getting those dates and spellings out of this new web world that we live in. I mean, you can Google it up now and you can get different spellings and dates. Some of those errors are errors that are permanent in the database. That’s a real problem for today’s world. We had a lot of errors in the original copies of this and we corrected many of them and some of them are going to slip through.

What’s fascinating to me is on the day I get the Herald Leader review to pointing out some errors in the book, there’s a big story about me and it has three errors in it. Do I call them to complain about those errors? No. Errors are going to happen when you publish stuff.

Ron: It’s the nature of the beast, isn’t?
Jim: Nature of the beast.

Ron: One reason I like the web, we can see the error and boy, within 15 seconds it can be corrected.

Jim: Well, it can be corrected in your database, You can make sure the Blood Horse database has been cleaned but, you know, you can’t do Wikipedia.

Ron: That’s right.

Jim: Somebody can just go in there and put something in. People do make those kinds of errors. I regret any error by having spent my life in publishing. Errors drive me crazy, and so I don’t want the errors but I don’t think book – you know, I’ve employed a lot of book reviewers and critics of all kinds – books, film, food – and it really breaks their heart to have to write a positive review, to look for negatives to balance off your review. I mean, I would think the real way to ignore a bad book and to criticize is don’t review it at all. I think that the reviewers feel bad about saying positive things and all about the book, you look like some kind of (negative angle). Believe me, I understand.

Ron: So where is Monarchos these days and how often do you stay in touch with him, see him?

Jim: Well, I see Monarchos a lot. He’s at Nuckols Farm, which is close to mine, and I breed to him every year, two or three mares if I can. When you look at his foals, his winners to foals, his stakes winners to foals, he’s doing really well, considering the fact that he really hadn’t had much of a mare book over the years. He is a terrific horse. I’ve bred a stakes winner by Monarchos, and I breed to him every year. I love the horse and I think that he’s a great bargain. My Monarchos babies, I love them.

Ron: While we’re on the line of plugs here, how can people get your book?

Jim: I don’t have a Website. I don’t sell the book. It’s generally at all the bookstores and Amazon.com and Borders online. I guess it’s everywhere that there are books, I hope.

Ron: Jim, it’s been very educational, entertaining as usual. I thank you for your time and good luck to you.

Jim: Well, thank you for having me. I appreciate the questions.

Jim Squires

Blood-Horse Staff — Wed, 12 Aug 2009 19:21:00 GMT

Editor of the Chicago Tribune from 1981-89, Jim Squires has been a Thoroughbred breeder since 1977. Since 1990, he has bred horses in Kentucky and operates Two Bucks Farm, where he resides with his wife, Mary Anne. Among his successes as a Thoroughbred breeder was 2001 Kentucky Derby winner Monarchos.

The outspoken Squires has just released his latest book, “Headless Horsemen: A Tale of Chemical Colts, Subprime Sales Agents, and the Last Kentucky Derby on Steroids.” In promotional materials for the book, Henry Holt and Company Publishers of New York wrote:

“Jim Squires guides us through the carefully guarded world of horseracing and reveals how a clannish group of industry insiders has presided over a subprime-like bubble to rival any Wall Street has ever produced. “Squires, best known in the industry for breeding 2001 Kentucky Derby winner Monarchos, tackles the issues that have plagued thoroughbred racing for years but have most recently come into public focus following the Eight Belles tragedy. He makes inquiries into performance enhancing drugs, the growth of the unstable ’sales horse,’ corrupt industry business tactics, and the general lack of industry leadership. Along the way, Squires offers his own ideas on how the sport of kings might be saved. It is a must read for anyone discussing the state of Thoroughbred racing today.”

In addition to his latest book, Squires is the author of three other books, including “Horse of a Different Color,” which recounts the breeding and success of Monarchos.

Squire will be the featured guest on bloodhorse.com’s Talkin’ Horses podcast scheduled for Tuesday, August 18. Questions will be taken until 5 p.m. Monday, August 17.

Wesley Ward Podcast - Listen Now!

Blood-Horse Staff — Tue, 21 Jul 2009 17:09:00 GMT

To listen to the podcast, click the PLAY button above.

Wesley Ward bio

Transcript

Ron: This is a Ron Mitchell with BloodHorse.com’s Talkin’ Horses. Today, our special guest is Wesley Ward. As many of you know, Wesley just made a historic invasion of the British racing’s Royal Ascot meet where he came away with two winners.

Wesley, we’ve had a lot of questions as you can well imagine, most of them center around your 2-year-old success and your British invasion. The first question is from Pete M. What made you change your training base from California to Florida?

Wesley: I’ll tell you what; I just thought that there would be more opportunities back here. I spend a lot of time in California and had some success but I just thought, you know, branching out here to the East Coast that there would be a lot more opportunities for me.

Ron: And has it turned out to be that way?

Wesley: Yeah. At first, it was a little scary, but now it seems to have turned around.

Ron: And you are based in Florida, you’ve got strings of horses all up and down the East Coast, is that correct?

Wesley: I live in Florida and I’m based here in a winter time. But in the summer, I try to centralize myself in Keeneland, which is where I keep the base of all my horses. And then obviously now that Saratoga is starting, we’ve moved the majority of them into Saratoga and some into Monmouth.

Ron: Next question.
Tom Z: What is your family like and how do they deal with the lifestyle and work schedule of a trainer?

Wesley: It’s a lot easier in California because you just stay in one place and you have one house and the only time you move is to Del Mar and for that short of a meet, it’s easier to commute. So on the East Coast, it’s a lot tougher because you have to move around a lot. So that’s the reason why I base myself in the winter time and take all my horses down to south Florida to where I’m breaking and training at the farm, and also stabling in Gulfstream and at Calder. I have one home that I live in right here in south Florida. Now, starting in April, when Keeneland starts, and I start moving my horses north, that’s when I have to juggle myself between coming back and forth to Florida because of my family and also my businesses up north.

Ron: Does your family relocate with you to Saratoga?

Wesley: No. I basically keep my family separated from my business; I’m constantly on an airplane going somewhere.

Next question is from Ron: What do you think is the biggest problem in American racing today, and how would you fix it?

Wesley: I tell you what, in going over there (to Britain) for the first time, I didn’t get to see anything other than horse racing. So, everyday I had a runner so we were so consumed with it, I didn’t get out at all to see London or any other parts of Europe. But when we did go out to dinner -- I had seen this wherever we went -- it seemed to be that everybody was in tune with racing as opposed to the United States. So, I think that generation after generation it’s just been bred into them thatracing is just part of their culture; as opposed to the United States, where you have so many different cultures here and so many different things that it takes away from racing. It seems though racing is sort of dying out a little bit, which is very sad, but then you go to a place like England and you see where everybody knows what’s going on and everybody knows the integral parts of the game and all the players in the game.

Ron: So, being in England as you were, it’s almost like going to let’s say, some of our boutique meets – Saratoga or Oaklawn Park – where at those certain times of the year everybody is focused on horse racing but for the rest of the public, really, it’s off the mainstream

Wesley: Right.

Ron: The next question is from Margaret F. : Which is more comfortable – a cowboy hat, a top hot or jockey’s helmet?

Wesley: None of the above. I’m not a hat guy.

Ron: Not a hat guy. Did they have those top hat sizes already pre-fitted for you over there or is it just one size fits all?

Wesley: Yeah, we had to go in and get measured for the morning suit -- I guess they call it that -- and the top hat . The only one that really liked it was my son.

Ron: He thought it was pretty cool, huh?

Wesley: He called it his “fancy clothes.”

Ron: That’s great. The next question comes from Olivia Nicole - What horse that you’ve trained had the most natural talent?

Wesley: I’d have to say the most natural talent that many horses that I’ve trained was a horse named Lifestyle

Ron: And why?

Wesley: Well, he just had – just so much natural ability; it’s unfortunate that he really couldn’t get a chance to show what he can really do. But he was just the most talented horse that I’ve ever trained and just did things so effortlessly that if you ever watched his first two races, he could have been the greatest horse that ever lived if he wasn’t plagued with just a horrendous bleeding problem.

Ron: Can you just refresh us all on what he did do, how many times did he race.

Wesley: The first time I ran him, he won by about 17 or 18 lengths at Gulfstream, and then I put him on a plane and sent him to Churchill to run in the allowance race, and he ran and he at 7/8 of a mile, which is something I never do; I never run a first time starter at 7/8ths. He did it with ease and did it 1:21 and change with speed to spare. And then I put him on a plane to run in the Kentucky Derby day an allowance race and he colicked on the plane, so he had to go right into the hospital. He came out -- they didn’t have to do any surgery or anything -- of it alright. So I sent the horse on to New York and the following weekend, he was doing so good – they had a race at Belmont and I ran him, and he repeated the effort and did it just 1:21 and change, with the three-quarters in 1:08 and change in a gallop.

Ron: Wow.

Wesley: He was just an unbelievable horse that never really get a chance to do what he could really do.

Ron: He had persistent bleeding problem that he couldn’t overcome with meds?

Wesley: No, he bled through Lasix and he just – when the running started after that and he started bleeding, he just couldn’t get his air and that was just it. It’s just such a shame because he is the most talented horse that I’ve ever trained. And he really didn’t accomplish anything.

Ron: What is the hardest part of your job – dealing with the horses and getting them to do what you want them to do, or dealing with the owners and getting them to do what you want them to do?

Wesley: The horses are easy. I have woken up every day since I was 10 years old and went to the racetrack in the mornings, even before school. It’s just something that I’ve done my whole life and it just comes very natural to me because that’s all I know. Now, dealing with the owners, I’m getting to a point in my career where a lot of owners trust my decisions and when you talk to them about it, if there’s a problem or something to go with, then you have no problems with it.

As time goes on, you kind of weed out the people that you can’t work with and so I would have to say, things are getting easier as I’ve almost been training for 20 years now and things are starting to come together. It’s a hard question to answer.

Ron: What is like to work for Ken Ramsey?

Wesley: I’ll tell you what; he is the most wonderful owner to work with. He lets you do your job. I treat his horses like I own them and every decision I base on those horses is just like I own them myself. Like I was just telling you, if there is ever a decision to make, we talk about it and he would go with it whether the outcome is good or bad, we made the decision and that’s what we went with. And I’m not just saying that . I’m telling you that this is the most wonderful man you could ever train for.

Ron: Cool. That’s great to here. Next question, this is kind of a throwback to your Montana days. It comes from Hobart Beagler . Wesley, it sure is a long way from Kalispell, Montana to Royal Ascot. Do you remember coming to the Northwest Montana Fair with your buddy, Joe?

Wesley: Yeah. I sure do. Joe Fitzpatrick, wonderful guy. That’s when I was riding on the B circuits there, the non-recognized circuits… I was about 14 or 15 years old back then, and it was a wonderful time and had a wonderful experience.

Ron: Another question along the same lines from Bill Dailey: I imagine anyone as successful as you has had some good mentors along the way. Would you care to name them and elaborate on what you learned from them?

Wesley: I’ll tell you what; I’ve sort of, as a jockey and knowing my career was going to be limited from the first day I stepped into the struts gate, I sort of paid attention to a lot of the trainers I rode for, namely one, Charlie Whittingham; he was very instrumental and every morning I’d come to the barn, I’d ask him questions and he take the time to answer the questions, because I knew that my jockey career was going to be short lived and I knew which direction I was going to go when I was too heavy to ride. So everywhere I went, I’d always ask questions from different trainers, but he was just a wonderful guy, and when I did start training, he helped me out a lot also when I first started training. I was very fortunate to get a really good horse early in my career, for a very small amount … I purchased him for just like $13,000 and he went on to be a Breeder’s Cup horse. I encountered some problems with the horse, some physical problems that I went to Charlie, and Charlie really helped me out a lot as far as some soundness issues when I first started training. He really took his time and called on Dr. Harthill for me. I was a real young trainer that normally Dr. Harthill, who would more or less try and help out the bigger name like Charlie, would not have time for, and Charlie made the phone call, went with me, went over it with the vet. He was just… what a great guy.

Ron: Wow, sounds good. Anybody else that comes to mind?

Wesley: You know, there are so many other trainers and so many other different veterinarians and people that I couldn’t even name them all.

Ron: Next question comes from DJR – Do you have many problems with bucked shins in your 2-year-olds, and how do you bring them along to ward off buck shins and do you paint their legs with anything?

Wesley: Well, we start off very, very early. In fact, there are two of us that get on the horses. We start in October, myself and a guy named Mike Clark, and we break each and every 2 year old that I train. And we put a lot of miles and miles and miles and miles into them down here in Florida to where we build up some good bone density before we even start to do the breeze process where they start their speed works. I think that has a lot to do with it.

Now, of course, there are certain ones that will shin buck… not shin buck but will come up with a little bit of a shin to where we back off and we never get them to that shin buck point. We always get them to where if there’s a little tender, we just back off.

Ron: So you think that just building it up in them early on and helps build their bone structure and has them pretty sound.

Wesley: Yeah, getting a good foundation underneath them, it really seems to help a lot.

Ron: Was that one of the things you attribute to your success with 2 year olds, which obviously you have a knack for?

Wesley: Well, you know, I try to train each horse as an individual. Like I said, if the horse does come up with a little tiny bit of a tender shin, we just back off until if you keep pushing forward, you’re going to get them completely shin bucked out, and it just takes that much longer to get them back.

Ron: This next question is from Mary, who wants to know – Since you have such a success rate with 2 year olds, what body type do you look for when you go to the sales? Do you prefer a more quarter horse physique or does it matter?

Wesley: I’ll buy sort of a typey looking horse that I’ll target for the earlier races and then I’ll always try and look for a different type of for later races. What I do when I go to the sales is there a lot of horses that I eliminate just based on horses that I’ve gotten in the past that haven’t turned out – the physical, different types of confirmations and whatnot, that I eliminate. So that takes a lot of the – say there’s a thousand horses in a sale and you go through them and you can eliminate 500 or 600 of them, then that just leaves you that much of a smaller number to go through.

Ron: Speaking of sales, do you like the sales game? Do you like going there and doing that part of it?

Wesley: Yeah, I really love that part. I like to pick them out and actually take them from A to Z.

Ron: So it gives you more control over what you’re working with.

Wesley: Right.

Ron: From Dennis C: What attribute do you give the most weight to when deciding if a yearling will be precocious – foaling dates, sire stats and/or conformation?

Wesley: Conformation.

Ron: From Mitchell Dutko – What are your plans with Strike The Tiger? Secondly, it seems as if you increase the amount of wins you accumulate with every year; is that directly proportional to your gray hairs, or do you think you’re just maturing as a trainer?

Wesley: I think it’s the gray hair that the owners give you.

Ron: And also back to the first part of that, what about Strike The Tiger; where are you going?

Wesley: We’re running Saturday in the Chenery Stakes at Colonial Downs.

Ron: Next question from S. Ruby – I was present at River Downs the day you worked your horses. It was a great show between races and got quite the buzz around the stands. Why did you pick River Downs for those workouts?

Wesley: Well, I had asked Keeneland to help me out the week prior, which they did and they sort of bent over backwards for me to get on the turf course after they had closed the meet. So I just felt that it just wouldn’t be the right thing to do with Keeneland, because I know that they take care of their turf course so well. So I just asked River Downs, even though I don’t race there that often, if they could help me out one time. They were very gracious in doing that, and actually doing it between the races really helped my horses because it was more of a race environment to where the horses got a little bit more excited, got a lot more out of it. I tried to set it to where I was about three weeks from the work to the race which really set the horses up well, to where I wouldn’t have to do a lot with them from that point until they got to Ascot.

Ron: So you do have some limited experience at River. Nice little track, isn’t it?

Wesley: It’s a beautiful racetrack. It’s a wonderful, wonderful turf course with big hedges. What a great place.

Ron: The next question is from Greg – I go to England a lot for the races during the year there, and I want to know if you plan to go over again to York, Newmarket, Sandown Park or any other race meets in England?

Wesley: I’ve got some horses in mind nominated to some races in the fall, although I just think that what I did over there early is something that I’ve been trying to do. I kind of had a little bit of advantage on my side in that my horses were so in tune and prepped. I’m really going to have to study and look at my competition as the nominations come out and as we get closer to the races if I want to warrant sending them over there and incurring all the expense that was involved to get them there.

It’s doubtful that I’ll probably do it this fall, but it’s something that I will look into if given the type of horses that I brought over there that were ready and sort of on top of their game; that’s more or less the way I’d like to go and do it again if I ever have the horses right at that moment to send over there.

Ron: So, it really is just like finding the spot here in the US; you just try to assess the competition, what you got, the horse coming around and the race.

Wesley: Right.

Ron: Next question – Please comment on the United States versus European horses concerning bleeding and Lasix.

Wesley: I’ll tell you what; just like that horse we were talking about before – the most talented horse I’ve ever trained – if I was to have taken him over to Europe, he would have performed very dismal, just because without Lasix, he wouldn’t have been able to compete. So you really have to be careful on the horses that you do bring over there, that they’re 100% sound because you don’t get any chance to also administer any Butazolidin. They also have to be free and clean of any bleeding or any expiratory problems that they have. You have to bring a horse that’s completely sound, that breathes good, that doesn’t bleed and then you’ve got to get lucky.

Ron: So even though you ran those horses over there without the medication, now that they’re back over here, I guess they would be running on the meds we use here?

Wesley: Yeah. I put them on the Butazolidin for the race and then I’ll also administer just a small dose of Lasix, just to sort of prevent it.

Ron: More precaution than anything?

Wesley: Right.

Ron: Next question from Michael Costello – Is winning a juvenile stakes race at Royal Ascot perceived by many to be the best race meet in the world, your version or equitable to winning the Kentucky Derby? And do you have dreams of getting to Louisville one day?

Wesley: Well, I think anybody in horse racing has dreams of getting to the Kentucky Derby. Sheik Mohammad is sending two every year to try and get it done.
Obviously, some day I sure would like to get there. Winning those races in Royal Ascot was just something that I’ll cherish forever. I had my dad and my son there and it was something that we’ll remember for the next 30 or 40 years. That was a great accomplishment, and I was very proud of my horses and also thankful to the owners who were going through the expense to give it a try along with me. So that’s something that I’ll never forget. The Derby is always something up there that not only myself, but everybody in racing wants to get to.

Ron: Have you had a Derby starter?

Wesley: I have not. I really have gotten close with a couple of different horses a few different years but like I say, I’m hopeful that in the years to come, that hopefully I’ll have a colt good enough to get there.

Ron: So you’re not inclined just to throw any decent 3 year old you have in the race just for the chance of stealing the race?

Wesley: No. I’ve had a couple of horses that I could have probably run in there, but unless I’m leading one over and I really think I’m going to win it, that’s when I want to be in that race.

Ron: Next question comes from Michelle Wojak – I’m interested in becoming a horse trainer. Could you tell me more on what you do on a daily basis and if you have any suggestions on how to get started in training horses.

Wesley: It is a tough, tough life as a trainer, I’ll tell you that. There’s a lot of long hours and it’s seven days a week. The horses get up everyday and they’ve got to be fed and they’ve got to have someone that’s going have a plan for them. So, I mean, you really have to think twice about it. My son is 10 years old and that’s (British trip) the first thing I’ve ever been able to do with him since he’s been born. I’ve never taken a family vacation, I’ve never gone anywhere. It’s nothing that I regret because it’s something that I love to do, but it’s very, very hard for a family life.

Ron: Enter into it very carefully as far as what you want to do with your life.

Wesley: Yeah, because it’s not a job; it’s sort of a lifestyle. It’s something that every single day you have to get up and you’re going to deal with… even the greatest trainer in United States is training about 25%, so that means every hundred races he’s running, he’s losing 75 of them. So you’re going to have to deal with a lot of losses. A lot of people get upset because there is a lot of money involved. It’s a very, very tough game.

Ron: It sounds like a lot of stress.

Wesley: Yeah, it is. It is a lot of stress.

Ron: Next question from John Barnes – I watched you many years ago as a jockey winning races at Aqueduct. What was it like to ride against legends like Angel Cordero?

Wesley: I’ll tell you what; Angel was a tremendous jockey and great competitor, a fierce competitor. He would do anything he could to try and get his horse there first and a great guy. I came around at a time in my riding career that was right on the cusp of all the greats were still in racing. Not that the riders now, 20 years from now, will not be considered that as Shoemaker and Cordero and Pincay and all the jockeys that I rode with back then. But it was a great time to be in racing with all the legends. With Charlie Whittingham, trainers Woody Stephens and Frank Whiteley and all the trainers that I was able to meet. When I was a young kid, 16 years old, on the back side of Belmont Park, being to walk in and being able to ride horses for all those guys was just a dream come true and it’s something that I will never forget.

Ron: Next question from Stanley – How do you get your horses to break so fast? How much gate work do you do?

Wesley: We do a lot of gate work. My horses are in a gate 40 or 50 times before they ever run so that they are used to the rattling around and used to have other horses in there with them. They’re just very, very relaxed in the gate because of that, because they have been so well-schooled and educated, that when the gate opens, more often than not, they’re leaving and running.

Ron: Question from edzepplin. You have a Spanish Steps 2-year-old cold that broke his Maiden at Churchill on first out. I was very impressed with him. What is his current status and also, what is his name?

Wesley: He’s a very nice colt that Mr. Ramsey owns. We have him pointed for the Stanford Stakes; his name is Satisfied Mind.

Ron: Recently several high profile trainers have been handed suspensions for drug violations, yet they continue to attract owners and horses. At what point does medication you start to erode confidence and spoil the game?

Wesley: Well, I’ll tell you what; I really believe that trainers like Steve Asmussen and Todd Pletcher, they aren’t going to do anything to jeopardize their reputation. They are not going to do anything to try and cheat the game. I think that they are doing everything in their power to stay within the limits of what’s permitted but a lot of times when you have such a big operation and a big stable, it’s hard to manage each and every stable that they’re at. So I think that’s what the problem is. It’s nothing to do with someone trying to take advantage and use some type of drugs that’s going to make their horses run faster; it’s just a question that they’re not able to control – the vets are obviously administering whatever medication that came back in a positive test was meant for another horse, but their stable is so large that they weren’t able to control it.

Ron: So it’s kind of a management issue not being able to be everywhere all the time and watch everything that happens.

Wesley: That’s what it is. Exactly. And I think that it’s hard, as far as the stewards are concerned that levy the penalties because obviously, that horse on that day came back with a positive test. So what do you do even though you know that Steve Asmussen, who’s training Curlin and Rachel Alexandra, and all these wonderful horses, obviously he would not jeopardize his career with some type of 10 or 20 or 30 or $50,000 claim or whatever it is, to come back with a positive test.

But at the end of the day, the horse had it in his system, so the stewards have to levy some kind of penalty. I think that what needs to happen is when you get a guy like that, somehow you’ve got to understand that the situation would be different than if you get some trainer that comes into the game, is trying to do something funny and gets with a positive test that the horse was 40-1 or something like that; I think that somehow something’s got to give one way or the other. It’s just a horrible thing to see Steve go down for six months for something that obviously was not on his control and certainly something that he would never do.

Ron: Maurice Miller wants to know – While you were over there in Britain winning races, did some limey hit you on the nose?

Wesley: No, actually what happened was I got a filly shipped in for me from Jackson Hole, Wyoming from an owner to Keeneland, so I was breaking her in the stall about three days before I get on the airplane, and she reared up and her head came back and knocked me right in the nose before I got on the plane.

Ron: I didn’t even notice anything but obviously, he did.

Wesley: Yeah, he was right.

Ron: Well, listen, Wesley, that’s all the questions I went through. I certainly appreciate you taking your time, being so accommodating and wish you the best of success.

Wesley: No problem. Thank you very much.

Wesley Ward

Blood-Horse Staff — Thu, 16 Jul 2009 16:36:00 GMT

Wesley Ward, the ex-jockey-turned trainer, stunned the British racing world at Royal Ascot when two horses he trained became the first American-trained runners to ever win at the exclusive race meet.

Ward, who especially has a knack for training 2-year-olds to win, is a former rider who won the Eclipse Award in 1984 as leading apprentice. He retired as a jockey in 1989 due to weight problems and joined the training ranks in 1991. Since training eight winners from 48 starters that year, Ward’s success has grown to where he had 94 wins from 361 starts in 2008 for a 26% strike rate, and stable earnings in excess of more than $2.2 million. This year, his horses are winning at a 30% clip.

In addition to his Royal Ascot winners – Strike the Tiger and Jealous Again – some of the top horses trained by Ward throughout his career have been Unfinished Symph, Men’s Exclusive, Bear Fan, Omega Code, and world record-holder One Hot Wish.

Ward, who was the subject of a featured cover story by Steve Haskin in July 18 issue of The Blood-Horse magazine, will be the special guest on bloodhorse.com’s Talkin’ Horses podcast scheduled for Tuesday, July 21. Questions will be taken until 5 p.m. Monday, July 20.

John Asher Podcast - Listen Now!

Blood-Horse Staff — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 16:43:00 GMT

To listen to the podcast, click the PLAY button above.

John Asher bio

Transcript

Ron: This is Ron Mitchell, moderator for Talkin’ Horses podcasts. Today our guest is John Asher, Vice President of Communications for Churchill Downs. Certainly we got quite a few things to go over with John, most particularly the Friday night experiment, with racing at Churchill Downs and what just happened in the legislature with VLTs.

First, John, I want to thank you for taking time out to answer questions from fans. I know you’ve been a long time advocate of wanting to engage with the general public and fans as much as possible, and I think this shows that.

So, let’s get started right off with some of the hot button topics of the day.

John: And we have several.

Ron: Oh yes. This first one is from Alex Waldrop. John, you’ve long been a strong advocate for night racing. It was you who successfully argued for the inclusion of permanent track lighting in the 2001 master plan for renovation of Churchill Downs. Was the fan support last Friday night greater than you expected, or what you expected?

John: Well, I appreciate the question from Alex, and yes, I know that was the Alex because he was here at that time and we worked together, he was President of Churchill Downs at the time we had thrown that master plan together and we all worked together on that, and yes, the lights were originally in the plan. Regarding last Friday, I thought it was a magical night here at Churchill Downs; it’s one of the most magical I’ve ever spent here. Now it wasn’t perfect, I think everyone knows, we had a couple of areas where we felt short in and we’re going to fix that. But you only have one chance to make a first impression, but I’m hoping a lot of fans will… most of those fans will come back and give us another chance this Friday.

But I was terrifically enthused about the response. I thought originally just the word on the street here in Louisville area, just meeting people on the street and talking to people about racing who and frankly, had never talked to me about racing before, I knew there was a lot of enthusiasm out there for it, but we really saw the momentum build in the last week leading up to the night, and the night here was just electric. It was an incredible atmosphere and despite the complaints we had about beer lines, which were very legitimate, and again, that’s an area where we clearly dropped the ball, I’m going to fix that this week, and for the following date on July 2nd, most of the people I talk to – I talked to a lot of people that night, and a lot of people since then – whether they were unhappy with that part of our service that night or not, they came up and said, “This is a great idea, I love it, but…” and then they went into their concerns about the evening. But I think most people, even if they were disappointed in one level of service, had a great evening and saw the potential here, and I think after watching that first night of racing, I really think all things are possible.

I would love to see down the road, maybe think about races like Stephen Foster, something like that maybe at night sometime, something they could really lift that race to its fullest potential. It was a great moment in what’s been kind of a rough spring for us all here at Churchill.

Ron: So we would be looking at night racing, perhaps in the future, only for special events, or on an everyday basis?

John: Well I think that depends on whether we make the decision to go ahead and install lights on a permanent basis. I mean, we’ve got two more essential market tests, one is Friday the 26th, and then Thursday, July 2nd, leading into the 4th of July holiday weekend, and we’ll take a look back over the three nights, assess what went well, assess what didn’t and do our best to come up with a clear answer as to whether this is something the public wants long term. I don’t think anybody has ever envisioned an extensive night racing schedule and certainly, although we’ve been asked the question many times, no one has ever envisioned a Kentucky Derby run at night. But I do think we’d love to have the flexibility with our facility to do whatever our market wants us to do, and if that is an occasional night racing session, whether it’s even every Friday, like Hollywood Park, or some other schedule with maybe special events, I don’t know; but I do think all things are possible after last Thursday and we’ll see what happens after the next couple of weeks.

I wouldn’t envision an extensive night racing schedule even if permanent light are installed. Again, that’s something we’ll have to take a long look at. We are a publicly traded company. We’ve got to do something that’s in the best interests of both our fans and our shareholders. It’s a big decision because it’s going to be a pretty big nickel to do that, but I think we’ll look at every possibility and look down the road and see what the fans tell us. They spoke pretty loudly Friday night, we’ll see what happens. It was an historic night though, the first time ever; I think a lot of people came out because of the historical aspect as well as the fun they had, but I do think most of them had fun, even those who were disappointed with one aspect of what we did. And just again, judging from the man on the street and the way that our reservations are going this week, that night 2 is going to be pretty big night as well. So I’m excited and kind of counting the minutes until Friday.

Ron: That’s great. A related question from Bob Sikora. Bob says, you know all this night racing is just smoke for the real deal. When is the Kentucky Derby going primetime?

John: I can speak very honestly and very clearly is that we have not undertaken this test with the notion of a night time Kentucky Derby. We are looking at ways to build up our regular racing schedule and again, I want you to think of how extensive the lighting would have to be for a Kentucky Derby. I mean right now we just got the main track illuminated with the temporary lights from Musco Lighting and I think if we went long term, we’d certainly look at something more extensive to take into the turf course as well. But please remember we’ve got 70,000 people on the infield at Churchill Downs. Remember the parking everywhere, outlying areas around the racetrack and just how much a night time Kentucky Derby would raise the stakes in terms of security and other issues, not that that’s insurmountable, but again, it’s just something that I can assure the gentleman posing the question is something I can assure him we have not considered. This is a market test for how offering a new product that hopefully our market in the city and the region, and in simulcast markets – it’s important for simulcast markets as well; we had a very good response from simulcast markets for Friday night.

But you want to strike a balance that if it does happen long term, you don’t want to do too much of a good thing. But I can speak very, very truthfully in that we do not enter this with a thought to running the Kentucky Derby at night.

Ron: I guess certainly sunscreen sales would plummet in Louisville if you had a night time Kentucky Derby.

John: It would. That would be one concern we would put to the wayside. Although, remember that you would have a few folks out there a little bit early, I think. But again, that’s not anything we’re anticipating any time soon and again there is no – at this point, there’s no plan to put lights in on a permanent basis; we’ll assess after the meet’s over and after these three days are over. But again, it was a great start. I don’t want to overuse the magic work, magical, but it just was that, it was a great atmosphere. And even those who expressed disappointment said this is a great idea, can’t wait to do it again.

Ron: Next issue from Barry – Around January 2010, Delaware Park will have it all – slots, gaming tables, sports betting and horse racing. Kentucky could have all of the same in time. Your thoughts on the Kentucky Senate Appropriations and Revenue Committee turning down the VLT bill.

John: Well, it’s tremendously disappointing. I mean I think it was a day that left all of us in Kentucky racing a little depressed. I mean it’s clear – the one thing that has been gratifying about the debate leading up to the special session, and the debate in the early days with special session is that there is an acknowledgment now, in most circles, that the Kentucky racing industry does face some challenges, and very serious challenges, and I think our industry leaders have been very accurate in getting out there, whether it’s Bob Evans here at Churchill and Nick Nicholson at Keeneland or any other representative whose been out there - Patrick Neely with KEEP whose organization has worked so hard. I do think our industry really has a tipping point.

It’s something that – the first time this issue went to the Kentucky legislature, it’s been there a long time. I mean, the first time I know Churchill Downs took it there was before my time here; it was in 1993. So, this effort dates back to 1993 and, throughout that debate, there have been success in spreading that word and in gaining support in the house and the senate has been incremental over the years. It has grown, certainly, to the point where this year, House Speaker Stumbo and others, and Governor Beshear had great leadership and got it through the House to the Senate. But in that debate was the realization that the industry does face challenges, that it’s not an industry that’s either crying wolf or emulating Chicken Little. I think what has been said since that time in 1993, especially in most recent years, is that in our discussion with law makers and others, that we painted the picture saying that if these things happen in other states, if this competition forms in the United States, if it grows as we expect it to, this is what could happen and this is what’s going to happen, and I think this year the moon and the stars all aligned, and I think everyone in our industry, certainly, and a good number of people outside our industry realize that it’s a very serious situation. I mean, when you see Churchill Downs cancel seven days of racing, that’s not a smokescreen, that’s an economic reality.

That was an agreement with our horsemen. We had two choices there – either cut the days of racing and try to keep purses shored up where they remained reasonably competitive, or we leave those days of racing intact and lower the purses significantly and make our races even less competitive than they are with those in nearby states. The timing was interesting too on the announcement from Governor Strickland in Ohio that he was going to strongly back slots at racetracks there because that opens yet another competitive challenge on our borders. And clearly, Ellis Park is in a serious situation and Ron Geary says he’ll close at the end of this year. Bob Elliston’s comments about the future of Turfway Park, especially if Ohio enters the picture, I think we’re a joke to many people that Elliston actually put a date to have – the president of Turfway Park actually putting a date on the possible end of that racetrack, which has a long history stretching back to Latonia as a major racing center back to the early part of the 20th century.

The breeding industry. I know, for instance, the Lexington Herald-Leader ran a series a couple of weeks ago on questioning whether there was actually a crisis in Kentucky’s horse industry, but there was a piece in the same paper today that quoted a lot of people who weren’t quoted in that series, talking about the number of stallions and mares and the drop in numbers being bred, and the further impact on the sales, we’ll see later in the year as the important sales come up at Keeneland in September and other sales.

But I mean, clearly there’s an impact throughout our industry and all you have to do is look at the Churchill Downs. And if you’re a close fan of racing, you don’t even have to look at the purses at Churchill Downs, look at the quality of racing here, it’s been a significant decline over the last two to three years. Our purses were static for many years and over the last three years, we’ve seen reductions every year, and then this year, reductions in racing dates. So, that’s a very serious situation.

Again, it was gratifying to see a recognition of that in areas outside of industry and outside of what has been normal support for this issue. We feel it didn’t get done, and it’s been an interesting too to see the response and I understand there have been a lot of calls into the state capitol, the members of the senate, and we hope that continues. Grassroot supports an incredibly essential thing in all this, there’s a rally tonight in Lexington, I’m going to be there. I know a lot of other people are going to be there. This is an issue that you can’t let go for the future of our industry. I mean, it’s a critical issue for the future of our industry but the timing is even more critical. I mean, with something not being done in this session, the prospect for any near term help is well down the road. And you’re going to reach a point where it’s going to be extremely difficult to even fight back to the level of where you were, much less have any growth for the future.

Timing is critical, the issue is critical. Sadly, that was a very disappointing result in the Kentucky Senate on Monday, but I still think we can see momentum on the issue out of that, and we’re going go back to doing – we’re going to do the best we can do with the facilities we have and try to run a great daily racing product as best we can. It’s a challenge for everybody, Churchill Downs and Keeneland included.

Ron: Somewhat of a follow up, this is from an anonymous writer – Whether legitimate or not, part of the anti-slots debate centered around the fact that tracks and racing and have not done enough to help themselves. Do you agree with this, and if so, what can they do to change their product? Is night racing an example of this?

John: Well, I imagine it might be an example, but I mean it’s an example of one thing, and I think we have tried to do a lot of things. I think we have done the best we can do with promotions budgets that we have. I mean in the competition – we talk about leveling the playing field, and that is a huge, huge factor in this. Since our casino competition arrived – our direct casino competition arrived here in the fall of 1998, it was the end of November 1998, right after the Breeder’s Cup here – over the next years, the wagering and attendance here at this racetrack dropped some 20%. Now, that wasn’t solely attributable to casinos; I mean there are a lot of other things that are competing for entertainment dollars, a lot of in home activities competing for the entertainment dollars, and a lot of betters, there are a good number of betters that stay at home and wager now and only come to the racetrack on an occasional basis, but still that was a significant drop, and that drop has been exacerbated over the last couple of years. I mean this year, we’re down roughly – I don’t know if the numbers have been quoted in the media – they’re down roughly 20% in terms of wagering on Churchill Downs races, and that’s also a larger decline than usual from last year because of the ADW dispute that’s now settled, at least for the time being.

I do think we have tried. Keeneland has done some wonderful things. Spending $121 million on our racetrack was not a minimal thing to do. I mean that was a pretty important swing for a company our size, and surely that was aimed at continuing to build the strength of the Kentucky Derby and the Kentucky Oaks and the Breeder’s Cup when it comes back, but we also opened a lot of new revenue streams here for activities on the racetrack during a regular race day, with the availability of suites and new dining areas and new meeting areas, and off season with a lot of other events that come to our track. We have a lot of conventions and weddings and business gatherings, and things of that nature that come to the track, all of which one would hope leads to bringing some new fans to the racetrack when we are racing.

I would suggest you take a look at what Churchill Downs has done – that’s what other racetracks have done – what Churchill Downs has done over that period, spending $121 million on facilities, taking that swing, especially when it came right in the aftermath of September 11th, 2001. This project – first phase of that project – was approved by our board of directors a week after that event. You tell me that doesn’t take a little business courage. So I think we have taken a swing here, and I think we have tried some things. We’ve tried new wagers, some of which were good ideas, some of which were not ideas, the market told us which was which, and we’ve tried some inventive ways to get folks in here. We’re looking for new ways. But to say that we have not taken new approaches or tried new ideas, or spent money to try to get fans into the racetrack, I really don’t think it’s fair comment.

Again, back to that level playing field, you’ve got to remember we have a live racing day, we have 9, 10, 11 races per day and for a casino over there, even though that industry certainly has seen the loss of revenue and play in the current economic situation, just in terms of marketing budgets and the churn that they have, just the fact that you’ve got a wager every 30 seconds or say over there, the marketing budgets, in the best case scenario, there’s nothing level about that playing field.

But I would suggest that you look at the overall record and what we’ve done, and especially in terms of facilities and trying to find ways to bring people to our racetrack and Keeneland has done the same thing, and Turfway and Ellis, given their respective financial situations, have done the same thing. I think we’ve tried those things and we’re looking for new ways to do it, but it’s a challenge given the inequity we have in terms of that level playing field.

Ron: Our next question on a different subject entirely, from Gordon – It seems like every year D. Wayne Lukas gets a lot of airtime with their suggestion that the Triple Crown needs to be changed. Considering how long it’s been since he won one of these races, it looks like he’s just trying to make it easier so he can win one. Do you think the present structure of the Triple Crown should be maintained and how can you defend it?

John: I defend it first and foremost as saying – and I’m not an absolutely closed minded guy on the subject. I’m a lot less close minded than I was say a couple of years ago because for one thing, I looked back into the history of the Triple Crown and looked at the schedule over the years and that five week schedule has not always been that five week schedule. I mean, that’s really a fairly recent phenomenon, I mean, roughly around the early 1940’s that they kind of settled into the two weeks between Derby and Preakness and three weeks to Belmont. If you look back over the years, you’ll find that a lot of years, there was a one week gap between the Derby and Preakness and maybe just a two week gap to the Belmont or sometimes a three or four week gap. They had really wandered around, if you look back to some of those and, again, it wasn’t a formal Triple Crown for the first couple of those things – those Triple Crown winners, Sir Barton was one that was included retroactively once the idea was first laid out there of linking these three races.

I do hate to see a dumbing down of our sport. I think in our country too much we see a lot of standards just for the sake of making things a little bit easier. The Triple Crown is a tremendously difficult thing, and it takes a very special horse to do it. And I’m not one of those that believes that we have to have a Triple Crown winner to save our sport. I think we have to have the right horse win the Triple Crown to really have the impact. And as wonderful as those horses were that were near misses in the ‘90s and the early parts of this new century, I think I can think of a couple of horses I think would have been very deserving Triple Crown winners, Point Given being one. Empire Maker might have been another. I think the connection to that horse might have underestimated the difficulty of the Derby a little bit, and the first step being the toughest. But when the right horse comes, that horse is going to get it done – he or she is going to get it done.

But I am a little bit more open to the prospect of at least looking at it, not in terms of tinkering with any distances; for me that’s a line you don’t cross. I mean, those distances, I think, they’ve got to remain sacred. If you wanted to add a week or so to the schedule, and stretch it out just a little bit, I should be open to that debate on a personal level, I’m not saying that as a racetrack stance, I’m just saying that as personal stance because, again, looking back over the Triple Crown, the schedule has varied a bit. And again, the year when Citation won the Kentucky Derby, I think there were like 5,000+ registered foals. And this year when Mine That Bird went to Kentucky Derby, we got in the neighborhood of 35,000, so that landscape has changed. And you can argue that two ways – it was either a pure group of horses available then, or that there were 35,000 that the bloodlines had been diluted and that you’re never going to have that great horse again. That’s up for individuals to decide.

I do know the landscape has changed, the number of horses bred have changed, and the way horses are raced and trained has changed. I mean, two year old racing, it’s the early part of the year. Three year old racing is becoming a less frequent choice, and some of those horses don’t have that foundation they used to have as two year olds.

So I think there’s plenty of room for debate and I am not – on a personal level – I don’t personally see that that five weeks is actually being cast in stone. But it would take a hell of an argument for me to change it. But I do think the distances, those are sacred, going and adopting the Kentucky Derby back to a mile and eight, that’s what Wayne Lukas, he used to propose that, he doesn’t anymore. I think those distances have got to stay there and the schedule’s got to remain similar but I could see an argument for tweaking a week or two.

Ron: Maybe it will get to the point where Wayne can win one again.

John: I wouldn’t rule out Wayne this year, he’s got a ton of good two year olds sitting out there. Don’t ever count Wayne out, he’s got a bigger grin on his face this year than I’ve seen in many years, and more than one person’s told me that’s a high quality group of two year olds. He’s won some races with some very impressive ones at Churchill this spring. So, I think we’ll hear some very legitimate noise from Wayne in the fall and in the spring.

Ron: This is from Jan Roytz at Three Chimneys Farm; once again, getting back to night racing and, if you’ve already covered this, let me know. What are your thoughts on how to ensure that night racing continues to thrive rather than having the novelty and luster wear off and the event losing its mainstream draw?

John: I was thinking right now, after the first one would be that it’s got to be special, and to make it a significant draw, it can’t kind of draw back and fall into a routine. And we’ve already made adjustments after last week in our schedule for this week, and originally our schedule was to have big blow out party to get things started, and then to pull back a little bit; still offer a lot of the same things; offer day/night dining packages, special dining packages, a bigger party in the paddock and music in the paddock and things like that; and we’re doing that, but we’re also adding some things in the aftermath of last week, because things worked so well – we’re working to pull some of the elements that we were going to pull back on, we’re going to try to instill those in the next two weeks because it was so special and people had such a great time. Those that weren’t frustrated with beer lines and left a bit early. I think our thinking right now after one week would be that this is something you don’t want to do every night because you can’t keep it special.

Last week, here in the Louisville area – and I know a lot of folks are coming in from Lexington. I know one friend of mine came on a bus load of 40 folks who came in from Lexington to be a part of that opening night, and they had a great time. And I think those folks will come back, but they’re not just going to come back just because we throw the lights on, it’s got to be a special type of event. I think that would be our early thinking, our early reading, we wouldn’t look for a situation where you have two or three nights of racing per week, because there’s no way you’re going to keep that that special, and there’s no way you’re going to maintain the buzz that we got right now with the community.

The last Friday night, Churchill Downs, in this community, was the place to be, and you can look at the audience, you can look at the demographic makeup of the audience, you had a very young crowd, a very hip crowd. It was a crowd spread all the way across the demographic spectrum. But a lot of fans that we never see, and I’m confident some fans who have never been to the racetrack were here that night. And that’s what we want to maintain, at least in some degree. It’s not going to be as spectacular as that historic first night, you got that cache about being the first, and a lot of people want to be there for that, they’re not going to be there every night after that. But I think we’d like to maintain something special, make that night something special, something that when our racing schedule comes out, should we have lights in here next year, and our racing schedule comes out in 2010, I want people to be circling those nights and say, I’m going to be there.

Ron: You brought up community in your answer there. This brings us to the next question from Nolan Nelson – In your opinion, how has being a publicly traded company on Wall Street impacted Churchill’s relationship with its home community of Louisville. By comparison, it certainly seems as though Keeneland, which is nonprofit, enjoys a much warmer relationship with its home community.

John: I think Keeneland and Churchill have faced different issues over the years, but I think we’re coming closer together in that – and I’ll say this – and this is not a sleight on Keeneland because I love Keeneland and I love everything Keeneland does, but they have not essentially been a racetrack as much as Churchill Downs has been; they have been more of a sales company over the years that conducted racing on much more limited schedule and they maybe didn’t face some of the demands that Churchill or Turfway or Keeneland has faced on a daily basis of their races being our absolute bread and butter. Again, I think those worlds are coming closer together, and I think you see that in the things Keeneland has done, and they’ve done a wonderful job with fan programs and things like that in recent years, but again, their racing schedule’s 16 days in the spring, 16 days in the fall, and then here at Churchill, at least before this spring, we were 52 days going in, we’re 45 days with the reduction of the racing schedule, and we’ll see what happens in terms of challenges for the fall.

But our businesses have been a bit different and I think that is, if there is a perception that our relationship with our general public is different, I think some of that stems from that. But I would say that it sometimes the perception that Churchill Downs’ interest and corporate interest and shareholder interest are in conflict with community, I think it’s a bit exaggerated sometimes. I mean, Churchill Downs being the home of the Kentucky Derby is a lightning rod for good things and bad things. I love, as a publicist here at Churchill Downs, the fact that when you throw out the name of Churchill Downs, a lot of things get covered in the news media that wouldn’t normally get covered, because it is Churchill Downs. The downside of that is that some things you sometimes might not want to see much coverage also gets coverage. But people care about it and they care deeply about it, and there’s a deep emotional investment in this community. You know what happens with Churchill Downs. Whether you hold a single share stock in Churchill Downs, in this community Churchill Downs is in the minds of everyone in this community, it’s our racetrack, and everyone has a stake, an emotional stake in what happens here, and what works and what doesn’t, and they are ready at a moment’s notice, trust me, to say something good, or to criticize.

And one of the great things about living in this town, I suspect in Lexington, too, but one of the good things about living in Louisville is that as a fairly visible representative of Churchill Downs, I can walk into a food mart at two a.m. and somebody wants to talk about horse racing. That’s a great thing, it’s a wonderful thing. But they also, if they’re unhappy with something, they’ll let you have it then, which is also a good thing. But I would suggest to you that kind of that image that we are at odds, if there is an image that we are at odds with the community out there, is exaggerated, and I think if you asked our neighbors surrounding the racetrack about how our relationship has been with them; just give the night racing as an example.

We got with the folks in our surrounding neighborhoods two months ago, had a meeting with them, told them before we went to the racing commission, told them what we were hoping to do, told them what we were planning to do in terms of security, how the lights would impact the surrounding neighborhood, police presence, how much the local police had bought into the security plan for that, and I think we did a pretty good job of that, and are doing an improving job with that.

But I think regardless, whenever you’re publicly traded, there is going to be that image. And there will be the occasion where the interest of the shareholders maybe don’t exactly jive with what people feel is the community interest. But I think if you went to the person on the street here in Louisville again and asked what their thoughts of Churchill Downs were, they’d be a lot more positive than maybe the media might perceive. That’s not to say we don’t have issues, that’s not to say we’re working on improving those issues, but I think Keeneland and Churchill have been a little bit apples and oranges over the years, but I think economic circumstances are drawing us a lot closer together in terms of the things we’re working towards. And we can learn some lessons from Keeneland and maybe they’ll learn some from us, too.

Ron: Next question on a totally different subject from Trish – What has been your most favorable moment since you’ve been at Churchill Downs?

John: Since I’ve been at Churchill Downs. I tell you, there are two Derbies I’m exceptionally proud of. My favorite moment at Churchill Downs – and I still think in terms of Kentucky Derby, my favorite Derby ever was 1986 and Ferdinand. I loved everything about that Derby. That was with Schumacher and Whittingham winning, and it’s still my all time favorite Derby. And I was a big fan of the Street Sense Derby a couple of years back. But I tell you there are two derbies that I think I’m intensely proud to have been part of those efforts. And one was the 2002 Derby, which was immediately after the 9/11 terrorist attacks and we faced a lot of new security concerns and security policies and we got nearly 40 police and government agencies we work with every year to put the Kentucky Derby on; it’s really a massive – not just community wide, but statewide and region wide effort. The Derby is truly an example of it takes a village, we could not do the Kentucky Derby without the help of everybody involved. But that year, the initial thought from our federal, state and local security officials that work with us every year to make the Derby a safe experience was to close the infield, was to completely shut that down, and we met with them and offered some alternatives, and they agreed with those, which was to put restrictions on items you could bring into the infield, we banned the coolers, we put infield stores in there – Thornton’s Food Mart was an incredible partner that year – because wanted to put infield stores in; but not only infield stores, but stores that would offer prices on items like the things they once would have brought in in their coolers, at the same price as they would have gotten it outside the gates.

The one thing we didn’t want people to think we were doing was we’re gouging them because of 9/11. We sincerely wanted them to have a great Derby experience. But there were a lot of moving parts in that Derby, in terms of getting people in, searches, there were wand searches, you couldn’t bring the coolers in like you had done for years before – it was a complete change of the Derby culture. It was a huge effort to get that plan together, get it done early, and then to get the word out. And our goal – not just our goal, but every agency working with us and the entire community – Kentucky Convention and Visitors Bureau had helped out – everybody helped out – was to make sure that no one who came to the gates on Oaks and Derby days in 2002 were surprised by anything, that they were expecting… they knew what to expect, that they weren’t dragging a cooler for 14 blocks and got here and were told they couldn’t get in. We wanted everybody to know. And it was a tremendous community effort, and it was carried off.

I’ll give you one great example of just how other agencies bought into that Kentucky Derby, and it ended up being a spectacular Kentucky Derby. There was one story I heard from the admission gates where a woman was binging in some items and she had this big, clear bag full of these enormous, gorgeous looking strawberries, she was taking them to the infield, and she’s going through the gates and one of the police officers standing there kind of gives her a stern look and says, “Ma’am, you can’t take those strawberries in there.” She goes, “What?” He said, “No, you can’t take them in.” And she says, “But I’ve got them in a bag, they’re in the right bag, just how they’re supposed to look.” He said, “No ma’am, those just look too darn good, we’re going to have to eat them right here.” And everybody kind of dissolved in laughter… and that really got her off to a great start on the day. That attitude was everywhere, that Kentucky Derby, we hope it is every Derby, but it was never more important with that Derby, and it ended up being a tremendously successful day.

I remember another woman too, who had contacted me weeks before and she was fretting about not being able to bring the coolers to the infield. I must have gotten four or five emails from her leading up to the Kentucky Derby. Then I got the golden email two days after the Derby, where she said, “It was great, and it actually improved the experience, because I didn’t have to drag this stuff for blocks.” I mean that email alone made that Derby for me, but that was a great Derby.

Then also 2004 was incredible because you remember that was the day of the rain storm, that was the day we had people swimming in the infield; that was the day that most of the clubhouse was a work in progress, we had tents in the infield, temporary seating for the Millionaire’s Row, a lot of logistical challenges. And then the weather weighed in and had that monsoon right before the Kentucky Derby and I don’t think people realized too, how close we came to losing that Kentucky Derby, because part of the racetrack washed out on the first turn in that monsoon, and Butch Lehr and his crew who are so amazing on a daily basis, and so under appreciated, I think, in this business, they put that track back together and everybody looked at it and said everything was great, and the Derby was saved, it was just a great derby. There were a lot of logistical challenges, including that late swing from Mother Nature, but it was an amazing day despite the rain and unbeaten Smarty Jones wins the Derby, and it was a great derby.

But those two to me are the greatest experiences I have had since I’ve been here, just being part of a team, and seeing people walking out and smiling after that day, those were amazing days. I’ll tell you, Friday night was not far off, despite the one frustrating area, the customer service area we had with the beer lines and things like that; the look on people’s faces, I went up to the admission gate around 5-6 o’clock, the first post was at 6, and watching people walking out, I mean, their grins were just so wide, people were so looking forward to that night. Even throughout the night again, those people who came up and offered some thoughts on the beer lines and things like that, the fact that so many of them said, “Hey, this is incredible, thanks so much, but you guys need to work on this…” but still just the atmosphere here that night was just incredible, and that’s going to be one of my favorite moments here, despite some frustrating areas.

Ron: What happened with those beer lines anyway?

John: We screwed up, we just did. We thought we were ready for 25,000 people and this is a team of many parts here, and I think on most levels, the night worked beautifully, but the one impression for a lot of people is going to be that we were ill prepared to get it started, just because of those lines. I think we covered the bases in practically every other area – parking was covered, getting people in and out was covered, having the high quality dining experience was covered, but that’s a very, very important line to be able to have people come over if they want to get a beer or a beverage and get it in a timely basis. And we just didn’t have enough stations and we didn’t have enough people, and we thought we did, and the teams we work with thought we did, but we blew it. So, we just say we’re sorry, we hope you’ll give us another chance, we hope it was a good night despite that, and hope those folks will come back in the next couple of weeks. And I think you might even see a racetrack vice president, too, you might see a couple of those guys with some sleeves rolled up serving some beers, so we’re really going to work exceptionally hard; not that we don’t every week, we worked exceptionally hard to get ready for last week, but that’s one area where we clearly felt short and we’re going to fix it.

Ron: Certainly you’ve been, to the betterment of the shareholder’s bottom line if you had been selling more beer. It isn’t like you were cutting back for that reason.

John: Yeah, trust me, we would have loved to, it was just one of a few logistical errors we had on the night, but it was a pretty big one. So, all we can do is promise we’ll do better, apologize to those did have a problem, and this week, when they come back this weekend next, we’re going to have the happy hour extended, it’ll be from four to eight, we’ve got dollar beers, we’re cutting the better price in half. We looked at things like free admission but that’s going to be difficult because we’d already sold a lot of admission tickets to people, we’d already had a lot of reservations and we’d sold some of those pre-night and things like that. That was going to be a tremendously difficult issue to deal with, and we looked at all the options and just decided to drop the beer price for that four hour happy hour, so we’re doubling the number of vending locations, we’re tripling the number of employees, we’re going to be handling those and we’re going to have those roving beverage vendors moving throughout the racetrack, which actually we tried to do last week, but the company that we deal with on those, all those guys are wrapped at a Nascar event, so those guys weren’t available last week. So, we got unlucky in couple of spots, too. We thought we were making the maximum effort last week and obviously we felt short in one area, but we’re stepping it up this week and hoping for a similar crowd. I don’t know what to expect, but I know reserved seating is going awfully well, and I think the buzz is still out there. So, I’m expecting to have a good night Friday night.

Ron: We’re pretty much running out of time here, John.

John: I’ll try to shorten up my answers, I know I get a little longwinded here.

Ron: Kim wants to know what racehorse has turned into the most dominant performance you’ve ever seen at Churchill?

John: The most dominant performance, Barbaro was one, certainly. I mean, as impressive as Big Brown was last year, I don’t think it was any more dominant than Barbaro. Barbaro was just an incredibly powerful performance. But one of the races that would rank in the top two or three performances – those that immediately come to mind, obviously Arazi’s Breeder’s Cup Juvenile was an incredible moment – that still might be the most electrifying performance I’ve ever personally witnessed, because I was watching this horse and I was getting embarrassed for him, he was so far back, and I was watching him every second then he started his move. I was working WHAS radio then, and I was standing next to Paul Rogers who was calling the race, and he hadn’t picked him up for a while and it was all I could do to keep from slapping him on the shoulder to say, “Look at this guy, look at this guy,” because he was amazing.

But I’ll tell you, one of the performances that really resonates with me to this day – and I’ve watched it on YouTube a couple of weeks ago and was thrilled again – was Street Cry’s win in the Stephen Foster handicap, that is one of the most dominant, impressive victories I have ever seen here, just incredibly powerful, and of course, that win is the reason we had Street Sense a few years later because Jim Tafel got beat in that race and decided he wanted to breed his mare to Street Cry. But Street Cry’s win there was just an incredible, incredible performance and one of my all time favorites, I think one of the all time greats I’ve ever seen here, and it made me wonder what would have happened if he hadn’t been hurt the year before in the Kentucky Derby.

Ron: Next, this is from Ron – As a handicapper, what was your reaction this year’s Derby that a horse who had not been winning in Arizona could come in here and run away with the roses? Was it all about Calvin, was there anything in the horse’s background that could have told us this might happen?

John: I tell you what I was doing, I had an incredibly romantic place to watch that Derby, I was sitting in the exact chair I’m sitting in now in my office watching it on television with my daughter, because I had to get to the interview soon after the race. But I was sitting here watching that race, and as I was watching it with her, I saw #8 slipping through on the rail I look over at my daughter and said, “Eight’s the winner,” and then I thought, who’s 8? I looked down at the program and from that point on, for the next eighth of a mile, I just went, “Oh my God, oh my God,” for the rest of the homestretch, and as soon as the race was over, I said, “You know, I think I picked that horse dead last in this year’s Kentucky Derby,” which I did, I had him dead last.

But here’s the thing about it. If you look back on his two year old form, you can even look back to the Breeder’s Cup, which his trainer, Chip Woolley says today, “The horse should never have been to that race.” But if you look at the odds of that race, his odds were lower than those of Pioneerof the Nile in the Breeder’s Cup, so that gives you an idea that some people thought he had some quality. And his races, it made a whole lot more sense – the New Mexico races still didn’t make any sense to me, leading up to the Derby. I looked at the mud track, and certainly Calvin got the trip on – Calvin was an enormous part of that victory. I know Bob Baffert came to the barn the morning after and of course he’d finished second with Pioneerof the Nile – he told Woolley and the owners, he said, “There’s no other jockey in America who’d have won that race except Calvin,” and I tend to believe that’s true on that day. But the fact is that he finished the last half mile of the Derby faster than anybody since Secretariat – and that’s racehorse time. And he’s proven since then he’s a racehorse.

But in answer to the question, it was tough. I could not get by him fading in the race prior to the Sunland Park Derby, the race prior to the Kentucky Derby. And Chip Woolley will tell you today the horse was ridden poorly, that he decided he was the last three-eighths mile horse, and he told his jockey in those races, “Lay back and come running late,” and he invariably moved early. And Calvin – it ended up being the perfect race, perfect time, probably liked the muddy track too, that little light body and he squeezed through that hole. There were a lot of things going into making that Derby. But I still wouldn’t have picked him. Knowing what I know now, I still probably wouldn’t have picked him, but I think he’s a very good racehorse.

I will say this about New Mexico – we’ve had two horses go through the state of New Mexico come to the Kentucky Derby, they are two for two in the Kentucky Derby, Real Quiet had run twice in New Mexico as a two year old; he lost them both. Mine That Bird ran twice in New Mexico as a three year old, lost them both. They’re 0 for New Mexico but 2 for 2 in the Kentucky Derby. I don’t know what that means, but it’s one of my favorite Derby stats.

Ron: Maybe that road from Arizona to Kentucky just got a little bit shorter.

John: Well, I tell you what, here’s my prediction for next year, because that race I think will be graded next year, it’s an $800,000 race, it’s going to be a grade three race next year, so the earnings will count. I will wager today that the field for that race, which is going to be run on actual dirt, will be a higher quality field than the field that runs in Santa Anita Derby a few weeks later, just because it’s dirt and just because the graded money is there. Let’s wait and see, but that’s my early read on next year’s path to Derby, that that will be one of the best races on the path to the Kentucky Derby.

Ron: John, with that tip for next year’s Derby, I think it’s going to close us out for this issue of Talkin’ Horses, I really appreciate you taking the time.

John: I loved doing it, Ron, thanks so much for the opportunity, I’d love to do it again sometime, because I know I do get a little longwinded on the answers, but I appreciate it, and thanks everybody for being here.

John Asher

Blood-Horse Staff — Sat, 20 Jun 2009 14:56:00 GMT

John Asher, vice president of Racing Communications at Churchill Downs, will be the featured guest on the next edition of Talkin' Horses, scheduled for taping on Wednesday, June 24. Asher has worked in the Thoroughbred racing industry as an award-winning journalist and publicist.

Asher joined Churchill Downs, home of the world famous Kentucky Derby and the flagship operation of Churchill Downs Incorporated, in January 1997 and has served in his current position since March 1999.

As a radio journalist at WHAS-AM and WAVE-AM in Louisville he earned five Eclipse Awards for “Outstanding National Radio Coverage of Thoroughbred Racing,” along with several other awards that recognized his work in the horse industry. His reporting on other issues earned recognition that included a National Headliner Award, a Scripps-Howard Award, and honors from the Society of Professional Journalists, the Radio & Television News Directors Association and the Kentucky Broadcasters Association. The Associated Press honored Asher seven times as the “Best Reporter” in Kentucky Large Market Radio.

Kentucky Thoroughbred Owners honored Asher with its “Warner L. Jones Jr. Horseman of the Year” award in 2006, and Kentucky Thoroughbred Owners and Breeders honored him with its Charles W. Engelhard Award for excellence in media coverage. Asher also received the “Dean Eagle Award” from the Knights of Columbus and a media award from the Kentucky Horsemen’s Benevolent and Protective Association, both in honor of his service to horse racing.

He was recognized in 2004 as “Public Relations Practitioner of the Year” by the Western Kentucky University School of Journalism and Broadcasting. The native of Leitchfield, Ky. is a graduate of Western Kentucky University, where he earned a bachelor’s degree in Journalism.

We thank everyone for their questions; the podcast will be taped on June 24.

Chip Woolley Podcast - Listen Now!

aspradling — Tue, 26 May 2009 18:23:00 GMT

To listen to the podcast, click the PLAY button above.

Chip Woolley bio

Transcript

Ron: First of all, Chip, welcome to Talkin’ Horses.

Chip: Thank you.

Ron: I know the fans appreciate you taking time to answer questions. We’ve had a lot of questions submitted and obviously, we can’t ask them all. We’ve grouped quite a few of them together that were along the same lines. I’ll start off with those questions.

First of all, after Monday’s workout, you declined to say who you might get to ride Mine That Bird in the Belmont if Calvin is unavailable. You said you were going to discuss that later on in the day yesterday with someone. Are you at liberty now to tell us who that is?

Chip: Actually, I’m not going to make a comment on that because he has a chance to pick up another horse in the race, and I’m not going to submarine him – jeopardize his chances of having a mount in the race. We’re just going to leave that alone for the time being.

Ron: I understand that. Next question – when did you decide that Mine That Bird was Kentucky Derby material and decide to point to that race?

Chip: Our plan all along had been to run in the Sunland Derby, and we figured we would win the Sunland Derby, we thought we had the best horse for sure. Our plan was to run in the Sunland Derby and then come to the Kentucky Derby, if we got in, which at that time we were on the list at like 23rd or something.

So we had been aiming at it for awhile. When we got beat in the Sunland Derby, we took a step back and made some other considerations. Over that two weeks’ period, Mark and I, of course, talked every day and I kept telling him this horse is training as good as he’s ever gonna be in his life. I said he’s just super right now, and I said I still think with a better trip around and better ride, that this horse is a better horse than all we’ve seen here. And with some more consideration, Mark and Doc talking with each other, we made the decision to come on out here.

But all the time … I mean even when we bought the horse, we thought that he could be a Derby horse.

Ron: And that brings us to our next overall general question that a lot of people have asked about and that concerns his running style. What indications did you have that he would be able to run that far from off the pace and his running style be suited to the Derby distance?

Chip: Well, the first thing is – I’ll be the first to say – I didn’t really ever plan on him being quite as far off pace as he was in the Kentucky Derby. I had intended for him to be maybe 15-18 back, but not 25-30 back. That happened at the gates getting run over leaving there kind of caused part of that.

My thinking on that from day 1, when we purchased this horse, I watched every replay that he had run in up in Canada, studied him very closely, and if you had watched those races, you can see that every time the rider would kind of ride him up close and then kind of back him up a little bit and then ride him back up close again and back him up again. Through the race, he made three or four small moves, but you can see when he moved, I mean he just swallowed back right up to him, I mean real quick.

In studying those races, I just felt like if you ever got him back and made one run instead of three or four mini runs, that it would serve the horse better and make him a better horse, instead of winning … a lot of the cup win races, he’d only win, just barely got by him to win. But he had two or three moves in the race that had taken some of the finish out of him.

So when I watched those races so many times, it was a tough decision buying this colt for $400,000 to start with, so I must have watched those races 30-40 times a piece to make that decision. As I watched him, I just kept watching that and thinking, and that’s what I intended to do at Sunland, and I just couldn’t get my rider what I was looking for. And the same thing he did down there both times, he moved the horse very early in the race and made the lead both times and just couldn’t hold it off, you know, but he just made too long of a turn.

Ron: That makes a lot of sense. Finally, from the long consensus of questions – what are your plans for the rest of the year with Mine That Bird, assuming he comes out of the Belmont okay. Would you consider the Travers, Breeders’ Cup; and also, do you think he has the potential to eventually be the next John Henry?

Chip: Well, I hope so. If he stays where he is right now, he’s going to have a long career and hopefully, he could be the next John Henry. We hope, you know, it’s great to have a gelding that will be in the game a long time as long as they can stay healthy.

As far as the rest of this year’s career, I mean, you know, your ultimate goal now at this point has to be the Breeders’ Cup obviously. We’re sure aiming there.

In between, we really haven’t made a hard decision on where we’re going to go. We’re actually mapping races right now to come up with a decision. There are several good opportunities out there, but timing is an issue. I think he needs a couple of months after the Belmont just to let him freshen just a little bit and try to have a break and recover from this – this is a grueling schedule that we’re on right now; so I would like a couple of months for the horse to kind of have just a bit of a break – maybe a couple of weeks off and then, you know, back six weeks or so of training to get to the next race. So that’s being considered in that.

Ultimately, I’d like to get two races between the Belmont and Breeders’ Cup if I get my drivers.

Ron: Now, for some more individual questions. This is from Jennie. I was wondering what your first reaction was when you found out that Mike Smith would not be riding the gelding back in the Belmont? Did you know this before the Preakness, or did you find out afterwards?

Chip: Actually, we found out after the Preakness. It was kind of … it was a bit of a shock, I guess not huge, I guess, but it was a bit of a shock because here you’ve got a colt that now has win one leg and just gotten beat in the second leg of the Triple Crown. It’s showing that he’s one of the top, top, top horses. It was kind of a shock, but then when you got the full story on it, you can’t blame Mike; I respect his decision, it’s not a decision to be taken lightly, of course. But those people had been very good to Mike; they’re great people in the business, they’re great for the game, and I sure don’t begrudge him making the decision he made.

I love riders that are loyal and his loyalty lies there, and so I really don’t have a problem with what he had done.

Ron: You’ve got to look at the fact of the shoe on the other foot, how you would feel, I guess.

Chip: Absolutely, I mean if had Zenyatta and several other topnotch horses like those people have, it they have been very good him – to Mike himself – I would expect the same loyalty if it was me.

Ron: Also, Jennie had another part of her question – did you ever considered flying Mine That Bird to the Derby and why did you decide to van him yourself?

Chip: I’m glad that question got asked. First of all, there are several parts to that, but one of them is yes, we had considered flying. The problem is there’s no ramp at Sunland Park where we were at. We were going to have to haul him all the way to Dallas to Lone Star Park to get a plane. Well, we were halfway there by the time you got there, so that kind of limited the point of flying him at that point. So that’s the main reason.

This horse really hauls well. I mean, some horses do, and some don’t. This horse, he loads in that van and we turn him loose in there in a box stall and he rests well, he eats, he drinks. He just really makes a trip well. As a matter of fact, I’m more nervous right now about flying him to Belmont than I would be about hauling him. I mean, the timing doesn’t work out very well, to haul him up there and the traffic problems you can get into and the time he’s going to have to spend on the trailer. Actually, I’m more nervous about flying him than I would be about hauling him.

Ron: I guess the concern there would be taking him out of his element a little bit as far as changing the routine you do with him and going to a race by flying him rather than hauling him in the van.

Chip: Exactly, and the horse is used to that trailer. He likes it. It doesn’t bother him a bit. When you watch him, he loads and he unloads off of there, just a slow walk, and it’s no problem. How he would handle an airplane ride, I mean, he’s been flown, so I’m not afraid to fly him, by no means, but you know, it’s just a little bit easier; you can make your own schedule, you don’t have to schedule around the flights – things like that, in my estimation, it’s as easy to haul.

Ron: Yeah, you got a lot more control.

Chip: Exactly.

Ron: Next question is from Olivia – What was the feeling of winning the most prestigious race in America?

Chip: That’s a tough one to describe. That’s pretty hard to describe the feeling. At first, it was elation of course, and then a little bit of shock. I mean, it’s the pinnacle of racing even worldwide, much less here in the United States. It was unbelievable. I don’t know how you describe it; it’s the most humbling experience that I have ever felt in my life.

You think it would make you feel huge or big, but I felt like the smallest thing in the world, and it’s an amazing, amazing feeling, but it’s something that you’ll never feel without doing it because I’ve never win races that big. Even talking with Carl Nafzger after the race, he had won some really big races prior to winning the Derby, and he was the same way. He said it was something that was indescribable and nothing else in the world can ever compared to.

Ron: Have you been surprised by everything that’s happened to you since then? I mean, all the publicity and just how everything seems to move so fast at that point?

Chip: It moves so fast – the first four or five days after the Derby, I was not enjoying at any. It was just moving so fast and you couldn’t get your head around the fact that you had won the Derby. It was hard to handle the people coming to you and people asking you millions of questions and cameras all around you.

Then after the 4 - 5 days, it started to be really enjoyable and ever since, it’s just like every day, it gets better. It’s the most enjoyable experience I’ve ever had. You know, people coming up to you, just to talk you, and wants your autograph. I mean, it’s great. The fans make this game great. It’s a fantastic experience, something that you’d like to relive again now, you know. I guess after you win it the first time, it would probably be more enjoyable the second time because maybe it wouldn’t be so hard to get your head around that first week or so. And you know, you could just start enjoying it the moment you won it. But for me, it took a few days for it to sink in and to get a grip on what was happening in the whirlwind of the press and all the calls from home. I mean, they were great people calling, but there’s no way to answer them all and there’s just so much on your plate.

Ron: Kind of a related next question from Susan Kearney – Imagine you’re 80 years old and reminiscing, what will you remember most about this awesome time in your life?

Chip: That’s hard to say. Probably, as much as anything, I’ll remember the fans here, the people here. They treated us so well that you know you couldn’t ask for any more than to win an event here at Churchill and in Louisville, in general. The elation of the people and how happy they are and how they make you… you feel like top of the world. That would be probably the thing I carry with me the most.

Ron: Well, certainly you’ve given back to the fans – I think everybody knows by now that you and the owners shared the roses with the fans outside the Barbaro statue. That’s a great gesture that in my experience it’s unheard of.

Chip: Sure it was fun. It was really an enjoyable experience to see the people and how much they love the sport, how much they love the Derby and to actually take home a piece of the Derby not just a cap they bought or something else, but something that was really truly a piece of the Derby; the people really, really enjoyed it. We have gotten a lot of comments and compliments and thanks from people, the letters they send us. And it was something you’re very glad you did after the fact; it didn’t seem that significant at first, but turned out to be much more significant.

Ron: Steve from Missouri wants to know – Is the run you’ve had with Mine That Bird going to change your life a great degree, or are you determined to go back to New Mexico and just pick up where you left off before you came into the Classics?

Chip: Well, I mean, I hope to be back to the Classics and I wouldn’t even mind having a stable here in Kentucky or out here in the east, but whatever I do, I will remain a part of racing in New Mexico and whether I’m there full time or not, I will remain a part of the New Mexico racing scene. And I would like to have horses out here, I mean, who wouldn’t want to be a part of this. If you could get the kind of horses it takes to win races like this and to be a part of this type of race scene, who wouldn’t want to be here. But it started in New Mexico and it will end up there.

Ron: And that bring us straight along to the next question from Anna – Do you think because you won the Kentucky Derby and reigned second in the Preakness that more people will be asking you to train their horses?

Chip: I’m sure that that will happen. It’s like anything – in one way or another, you have to be validated in whatever profession you’re in and this is obviously a validation stamp on your record that can never be taken away. So I’m sure it will bring me more horses and hopefully to bring me horses that can come back here and be a part of this again.

Ron: Have you already had some of those overtures?

Chip: We’ve had people called and talked to few people but that really hasn’t started so much. I think everybody is still concentrating on the Triple Crown run, and you know, maybe once we passed to Belmont and things slow down a little bit, we’ll have time to look at that kind of stuff.

Ron: Next question from someone who goes by the name of Freetex – Though this is most likely premature, when Mine That Bird is retired, do you think the owners would consider placing him in the Hall of Champions at the Kentucky Horse Park, which I’m sure you’re probably aware that’s where John Henry was until he died?

Chip: That’s very possible. It’s hard to say what they’ll do to him and how long his career is going to last and what his health status is at the end of his career. There’s a lot that plays into that. We have had people ask us that same question and we will do whatever is best for our horse at that point in time to give him the best life that he can have beyond racing. Even Mark said he’ll never want for anything the rest of his life if he has to build him his own paddock right out in front of his house at Roswell. So we’ll see what happens. It would be great to give him back to racing in a venue like the Horse Park; so that would be a distinct possibility down the road.

Ron: Next question from Joseph – You being a trainer from New Mexico, is there anything that you do different with your horses that most of the big named trainers may not do with their horses?

Chip: A few maybe, but not a lot different. I mean, we all have our own way of doing things. Like me, I know out here they like to jog horses a lot. And me, I’m more of a 2-mile gallop trainer; I think the horses get a little more out of it – a few things like that. But overall, I mean we all do similar things. We’d be all individualized in our own way, I guess.

Ron: I guess also at the same time, there are certain styles of training, certain methods that are more regionalized than others.

Chip: Sure there are, and then you have just the individual thinking of trainers is just different. Whether it’s your feed program, your training program, your tracking program, whatever it is, I mean, everybody has somewhat of their own program and that’s part of why some horses like it in one stable and not in another. You claim horses and sometimes they get better, and you claim some and they might get worse, and it’s hard to tell what it is, but sometimes it’s just a little small things in your training program that are different from somebody else.

Ron: And I guess you come to those conclusions just based on experience, what has worked and what hasn’t worked for you over the years.

Chip: Exactly, I’ve spent time around a lot of trainers over the years of friends and different things and you know, like all professions, trainers talk to each other and discuss things – if something worked for him and didn’t work for me, or something worked for me that didn’t work for him. So over the years, you kind of trial and error, try different things and some of them work, some of them don’t. And if they don’t work, you quit them, if they do work, you stick with them and try to add that to your repertoire of things that you do.

Ron: Next question up from Cgriff – You have spoken a great deal about Mine That Bird’s attitude, intelligence and closing kick. I’ve also noticed that he’s very handy and athletic. What single trait of all these that he has do you feel contributes most to his ability and success?

Chip: I would say his ability to finish – he’s a horse that can run a long way and by changing his running style like we did, it gives him such a big finish that I would say it’s his speed and ability to run long.

The great thing about him is that with his attitude and not getting excited prior to racing, not getting nervous and shook up, increases that ability considerably because horses can weigh so much in the paddock and post parade prior to ever leaving the gates to start running. And he’s a horse that doesn’t do that. The people who saw him when we saddled him at the Preakness – of course, I’m on one leg and I handed my crutches to my friend and he held my crutches while I saddled him and the horse never moved one step, I never had to hop one time – he just stands there and watches the crowd and does his thing. He makes it a lot easier to train when you got a horse with that much character and that’s so intelligent. That’s one notch of the game that you don’t have to worry about with him that other horses you have to worry about that, whether you gallop them the morning of the race or do something different to keep them saddled or get them to relax. With him, that’s just one aspect of the game you can leave alone.

But I think his greatest ability is the fact that he can run so far.

Ron: And I guess that laidback attitude he has and some other horses have, sometimes it gives fans of the wrong idea before a race to see how relax they are and they think, well you know, perhaps he’s not ready and they see another horse that’s really keyed up and on his toes, they think that horse is going to run the race of his life. And in the end, it’s the relaxed horse that’s there at the wire and the keyed up horse has already exerted way too much energy.

Chip: You’re exactly right. And I love a horse that will go out there and just be relaxed and calm. He knows what his job is and he’s ready to go do it and it just takes so much less out of him. They’re not sweating and trying to dehydrate themselves and they’re not building that lactic acid in the muscles by just sitting there bouncing, bouncing. You know that a lot of those things play a big role in a horse finishing so strongly.

Ron: Next question from Kimberly – In light of the success that Mine That Bird that has had, do you feel any disappointment at the fact he’s a gelding and he’s going to miss the breeding opportunity?

Chip: Absolutely not. You know, we purchased this horse to run. He was a gelding when we bought him. And even if he were a stud, he’s not a spectacular individual that would really hit a homerun in a stud barn to start with. He’s a little incorrect and that’ll hurt you at the stud barn.

I have no second thoughts about that. I mean, the fact of the matter is if he was still a stud, he might not be the runner he is right now because studs tend to be more amped up, they tend to be meaner, have a lot of personality problems. And I’m sure that’s why this horse was cut to start with and they said he was pretty ornery when he was a baby and now he’s so laidback, I think that that’s just really not an issue of any kind.

Ron: And I guess that’s one thing people need to keep in mind when they think of geldings that just that whole possibility that they would not have turned out to be the star that they are had they not been cut, that there would have been too many other issues that would’ve stood in a way of that great career.

Chip: Exactly.

Ron: Next question from Kristen – What advice would you give to aspiring trainers?

Chip: That’s kind of a tough question but…

Ron: Pretty broad, isn’t it?

Chip: It’s pretty broad. The main advice I would give is hard work pays off and you know, I went broke couple of times in this business and I had to basically start over and just never giving up and believing in yourself, don’t believe in everybody around you. Don’t worry about what everybody else thinks. Do your own thing and believe in yourself and give yourself the opportunity to be a winner. Don’t let somebody else take that opportunity away from you.

Ron: That’s a great advice not just for aspiring trainers, but for anybody who wants to succeed.

Next question from Darci – What does Mine That Bird like on a day to day basis? Does he have any interesting quirks?

You’ve already mentioned the fact, he’s very laidback, relaxed and intelligent. What about interesting quirks that he does – anything unique or funny that he does on a daily basis?

Chip: Probably the main one is he’ll stand there in his stall when he knows that he’s going to get out, and he’ll stand there and tap his left foot and kind of bob his head. He’ll stand there – first, you think he’s going to start pawing or something, but he just taps his foot on the ground and says hey, come and get me. Let’s go. And that’s probably his biggest quirk. He likes to nibble and chew around on things, but the main one probably is that little foot tap he likes to do.

Ron: Kathleen O’Malley asks – What’s his favorite snack? Is he a carrot’s guy, a peppermint’s guy?

Chip: That kind of stuff is really not on my horse’s diet, so he don’t get many treats. I’m pretty strict about diet and I keep everything just like I want it. So he doesn’t get any candy, and he doesn’t really like carrots. Now and then we’ve got some little horse treats, I don’t even know what they’re called, to be honest, and we give him one of them now and then, but for the most part, he doesn’t get that kind of stuff.

Ron: So you feed him basically a healthy diet.

Chip: Absolutely. I’ve got a very strict grain and feeding program and I really don’t like any kind of messing with it. The thing with feeding horses candy is, I mean, that’s fine feeding him peppermint but then somebody will give him a piece of chocolate that can get you in big trouble. The caffeine in chocolate can get you in big trouble. So if you don’t feed him anything, there’s no chance of that kind of stuff happening.

Ron: Peggy wants to know – Why don’t you go ahead and take Mine That Bird up to Belmont to train up for the race? It appears to me that a lot of horses’ stables are trained at that track and do well in the race. And would it not benefit your horse to take a look at the long stretch and deep footing?

Chip: Well, the main thing is, is the horse had to breeze twice between Preakness and Belmont. And if you take him up there and he struggles with the track at all, you take a chance of hurting him, straining muscles, you’re pulling on different muscles. If you run over it one time, even if he does sore up a little afterwards, you’re not faced with that going into the race, and that’s the main reason.

The other reason was that he’s really relaxed here at Churchill. He likes it here. When I take him to Pimlico, he never settled in there as well. He gets over the track here so well that we just felt more comfortable with him here training and didn’t feel like changing it up, it was a real good idea. I mean he trained very well here, went into the Preakness and run huge there. It felt like he ran a winning race and we just didn’t get the trip.

So, I mean, I just don’t think that being over there, training over that track – they call that track the big stand, being it’s loose and deep, and it’s a little bit harder on your horse than Churchill’s racetrack is. So I figured the less time he had to spend on it, the better.

Ron: And also as you say, if he is going to be on that track then make it the one and only in the Belmont because you’re giving him a break after that anyway.

Chip: Sure, exactly and we can let him run over – he handles about any kind of surface very well. He just really trains good here at Churchill, so we’ll just take up here on Wednesday. He’ll gallop Thursday, Friday and run Saturday and then probably ship out of there soon as we can get him out of there.

Ron: Shipping back to New Mexico to go home after that?

Chip: Probably back here to Churchill and then make a decision from there. I was telling you earlier that we got a few opportunities out here we need to … later this next week, we’ll sit down and try to map out a hard program of what we’re going to go with, but at this point, we haven’t really decided. Probably, he could race out here in the east another time or two prior to the Breeder’s Cup.

Ron: Julie Stewart asks – Do you think that New Mexico’s high elevation played a role in the conditioning of Mine That Bird, and I guess the other horses in your stable?

Chip: I believe it does play some role. How much is hard to say. I mean, did it make him win by 7 instead of 5? It’s hard to say, you know, but I think it plays some role but you’ve got to remember now, where he came from at Sunland Park is only about 3600 feet – so that’s not a real high elevation. So it probably could play small role but I’ll say not a very large role.

Ron: A factor but more of a nominal factor.

Chip: Exactly. A good example is I think you saw in the Preakness, he had been out here long enough by then that the altitude was of no factor, and he was running over them down the lane in the Preakness. So that kind of shows you that it kind of erases some of the idea that the altitude was of a major, major role.

Ron: Pam Godwin asks – Does Mine That Bird have a barn name or nickname?

Chip: We just call him The Bird.

Ron: The Bird?

Chip: The Bird.

Ron: That works. Bill Pottetti asks – With the Belmont upon us knowing your horse’s grit and stamina, where will you let him go – at the quarter pole or do you leave that decision to your jockey?

Chip: Some of that will be of the jock because you’re going to have to make a decision – if you’re 10 from the lead at the 3H pole, you can wait. If you’re 20 from the lead at the 3H pole, you’re going to have to make a move. So it’s gonna come down to the rider making that decision when he gets around there to that point. And you know, hopefully we won’t be too far off the pace there. It’s a little harder to close over that deep of a racetrack. So you know, it’s going to come down to the rider making the right decision.

Ron: Alina H, she prefaces her question by saying that she believes Rachel Alexander had a little bit of an unfair advantage in the Preakness due to the weight allowance given fillies. So her question is – Do you agree that the Triple Crown Race rules should be changed to ensure that fillies and males carry equal weight?

Chip: Well, I think if they’re going to play on an equal playing field that they should carry the same weight, but the flipside of that same coin is that we knew the rules when we went in and she got the filly weight and that’s the way it is in this race. I’ll give her all the credit she’s deserves that she beat me and that’s just the way that is.

Ron: Next question from Hannah from Texas – Who are some of your heroes, both on and off the track? In other words, who do you look up to as individuals?

Chip: If you’re talking in the racing world, I would probably – Carl Nafzger is one of them. Even Wayne Lucas – I mean Wayne has done something that nobody else has done. He’s a great horseman. Bobby Baffert – another guy that – those guys came from nowhere with nothing to get to where they were at and they deserve a lot of credit for what they’ve done. They’re the people I look up to that never let anything stand in their way and went out and took it. So they’re probably the people I look up to most.

There’s a lot of great horsemen out there that never made it to this point that I look up to also, but most people wouldn’t know who they are.

Ron: Well, you’re following in some great footsteps with just those you named there for sure.

Chip: Yeah, all of them came from where I came from. It’s kind of amazing.

Ron: So you could definitely relate, can’t you?

Chip: Yes sir.

Ron: Susie Blackmon asks – Do you bring your farrier with you when travel to big races or do you just pick up somebody local?

Chip: Actually, that’s a good question. I didn’t bring him with me but he did fly out the day before yesterday and shod my horse on Sunday afternoon, we shod him. But if the horse stays out here, he’ll fly each time to shoe him. Now if I need some help, one of his friends out here will give me a hand and stick a shoe on or something. But you sure don’t want to make any changes to your horse while he’s out here, and you know for the price of a plane ride, it’s cheap insurance not make any changes in your horse.

Ron: Cooper asks – With your new celebrity status, how do you and the owners keep a level head and do what is right by the horse?

Chip: Well, the horse has to come first. He’s the one that brought you here. So no matter what happens with the rest of us, we make our decisions based on what’s best for the horse. It’s like I told everybody when they asked about the Preakness immediately following the Derby, I said you'll have give me a couple of days, let me see how my horse is and we’ll make that decision then. He’s going to come first in every decision we make.

Ron: Carrie wants to know – How do you feel about synthetic tracks and the affect they have on the horses and their careers?

Chip: Personally, I’m not a huge fan of the synthetic surface but I haven’t had experience to be very knowledgeable on it. I’ve purchased horses off the synthetics and took them back to the dirt and they ran better. But overall, I’m just not a person with the knowledge of the synthetics to be making that decision. I’ve raced primarily on dirt and really haven’t had the experience with synthetic to make that decision. And some synthetics I do know are better than others, and I just haven’t had the experience to deal with it to make a real educated answer to that question.

Ron: As a follow up – Mine That Bird spent a great deal of his 2 year old year racing on synthetics, do you think that helped keep him around to do what he’s been able to do as a 3 year old, or do you think that’s not a factor?

Chip: I don’t believe that’s a factor. I mean, some horses stay sound and some don’t. I think he’s just the kind of horse that he gets over the ground really lightly, he doesn’t hit the ground hard. He runs equally well on the dirt, maybe even a little better. His numbers went up on the dirt anyway. I don’t feel like the dirt or the synthetics has helped him or hurt him either one; I think it’s just some horses stay sound. I mean I've got horses in my barn that are … I’ve got a 12 year old, that went his last out and he’s run on dirt all of his life, and he’s still just a 100% sound. So you just don’t … it’s hard to say what makes one sounder or less sounder than another. Just like in humans, I mean, you can all run on the same jogging trail and one comes back bad and one isn’t, you know. So it’s just really hard to say.

Ron: Is it 12-year-old thoroughbred or a quarter horse?

Chip: Quarter horse. That one in particular, but I’ve had a couple of 12-year-old thoroughbreds too that were still winning and healthy. So pretty amazing.

Ron: We have a couple of more questions. First of all, Davy Martenn wants to know – Did you ever gallop horses down in Paducah for a trainer named Jim Richardson – a quarter horse trainer?

Chip: I certainly did. As a matter fact, I galloped this horse right up until I had my wreck on my motorcycle. I galloped horses all over the country, but I certainly did in Paducah.

Ron: And Wendy wants to know – Who designed and made your very cool belt buckle commemorating your Derby win?

Chip: A girl named Kelsey Maynard – they live out in New Mexico and they make belt buckles for all kinds of rodeo events – everything. And she was very sweet. She was there for the Derby and went back home and when they came out for the Preakness, she brought me that buckle, and I appreciate it dearly.

Ron: Listen Chip, that runs out of all the questions … of course, as I said, we had a couple of hundred questions, it probably could have gone on all day. I just wanted to cut it down to the biggest ones and the most important ones. I really appreciate you taking your time. Good luck in the Belmont. And we’ll see you down the road.

Chip: Sounds good. Thank you.

Chip Woolley

Blood-Horse Staff — Thu, 21 May 2009 17:51:00 GMT

Bennie “Chip” Woolley Jr., who will be the featured guest on the next edition of bloodhorse.com’s Talkin’ Horses podcast, scheduled for taping Tuesday, May 26, took the long road (literally and figuratively) to success in the Kentucky Derby Presented by Yum! Brands (gr. I).

Despite a broken leg sustained in a motorcycle accident, Woolley loaded up his Ford pickup truck and Turnbow trailer and drove cross-country with a little gelding named Mine That Bird to contest the Run For the Roses. Overlooked by the media during Derby week, Mine That Bird paired with Churchill Downs-based jockey Calvin Borel to post one of the most stunning upset victories in Derby history, winning by 6 ¾ lengths. The payoff of $103.20 was the second-highest in the 135 runnings of the classic.

The win, and especially the brilliant ride by Borel, generated a whirlwind of publicity for Woolley, who was a rodeo rider before migrating into training Quarter Horses in New Mexico. He has recently been transitioning into training Thoroughbreds, although there are still some Quarter Horses among his stable that totals about 25 horses.

As if winning the Derby was not exciting enough, the drama that unfolded after the race was equally riveting. Rather than ride the Derby winner in the Preakness Stakes (gr. I), jockey Borel opted for the mount on the Kentucky Oaks (gr. I) winner Rachel Alexander, a late-comer to the Triple Crown scene after a change in ownership. That resulted in Mine That Bird picking up the services of Mike Smith. Borel and the filly led throughout the Preakness before the Derby winner mounted a serious challenge in deep stretch, with Rachel Alexandra prevailing in the end.

We thank everyone for their questions; the podcast will be taped on May 26.

Calvin Borel Podcast - Listen Now!

Blood-Horse Staff — Thu, 07 May 2009 15:47:00 GMT

To listen to the podcast, click the PLAY button above.

Calvin Borel bio

Transcript

Talkin’ Horses with Calvin Borel is brought to you by OCD Pellets – Build stronger bones. For more information, go to www.OCDPellets.com.

Ron: First of all, congratulations on your great weekend!

Calvin: Thank you very much.

Ron: We've had hundreds of questions submitted for you, and a lot of them are about the same stuff; you know I’m sure you’ve heard them before. Most of these people, they're big fans of yours and Mine That Bird, and they all say congratulations. We won’t read all those today, because we don’t have time for it. But certainly, you're the man of the hour!

Calvin: We try hard, sir.

Ron: Between Street Sense, Rachel Alexandra and Mine That Bird, who is the best horse if you could choose? Also, what are their different characteristics?

Calvin: You know, it’s kind of hard to put them in [inaudible 1:00].

Street Sense was a come from behind horse and you know, Rachel Alexandra, she’s pretty up par, you know. I can't take nothing away from Street Sense. You know, he was… at the time, he was the best horse in the country. Because we had Curlin and them kind of horses, you know. But right now, you know, I think Rachel Alexandra is the best in the country right now.

Ron: What about personalities between those three, especially Rachel Alexandra and Mine That Bird; what are their personalities like?

Calvin: They're totally alike. You wouldn’t imagine. You know, Street Sense too and Rachel Alexandra… I think that’s what makes them a racehorse. They're very relaxed, they have a good personality, they go to the post calm, cool, collective, and I think that’s one thing why and Mine That Bird runs good because he was very relaxed before the Derby, and all of the other horses were cutting up and everything. And I think that was a big plus for him.

Ron: So that’s a plus; you want to see a calm horse, rather than one… I guess a lot of racing fans think seeing a horse that’s really on its toes and keyed up is a good sign.

Calvin: Not in them positions, you know sir… I mean you have a lot of 45 minute post parade and stuff like that; you want them to be as calm as you can, to get to the gate. I think that that has helped Mine That Bird a lot in the last race.

Ron: Next question comes from someone named Phil Rizzi. “I read that you yelled out to Stewart Elliott to move over and give you room as you moved on the rail.”

Calvin: I didn’t yell that. I mean I just said Stu, you know… because he was a little close to the fence, you know, and his horse was you know, really, really stopping … I mean he was just, you know, not doing nothing. He seen me before I even hollered, you know, and I said Stu, and then when I went by, you know, he said, “Go get ‘em,” and I said “Okay, Stu.” I mean it wasn’t really a holler, you know, because it was a little tight and that his horse was stopping so fast. You know, I mean … it was just a … not even a second split thing, you know.

Ron: Right. I guess within the jockey community, if you know you're on a horse that can't keep pace and somebody needs to get through, you kind of honor that and allow them to do that, rather than trying to block them.

Calvin: Well sure, yeah. You always, always do that. You're not going to stop a horse from winning. I mean, you know, it’s different if you're … you know, you both … I mean head and head or you’ve got a lot of horse under you, then you're gonna race ride. But when you're last – and he was second to last – I was mad. He was beating, you know, whipping his horse – and you know, I’d do the same thing. You know, I mean it’s just natural … I mean if you have any personality in riding and racing, you know, I mean … now it’s different if you both have horses and you go into that position, well sure, you're going to do your best to keep the other horse from winning and try to win in yourself. But 85% of the riders that ride, they race them like that, you know, you can't keep a straight course and just ride with confidence. Really and truly, me and Stewart, we go back way, way, way back. He’s a very good guy. You couldn’t ask for a better rider to ride against. I’d do the same thing in that situation, and he knows that.

Ron: So really, there is nothing to be gained. If you're on a horse that can't keep pace, there is nothing to be gained by blocking a horse that you know has got better ability coming through.

Calvin: Right, yeah, at that time. You know, when you're last and second to last, you know it’s kind of hard just to … you know, just getting away and stop a horse from performing his best. You know what I mean? Like I said, now it’s totally different if you're going to the same hole and you’ve got a lot of horse, then where you have to ride your race … I mean you don’t drop him, but you're gonna try to put him in that position. You can run him up a horse or something and try to ride your own race and get there before they do.

Ron: What was going through your mind as you sought running room in the Derby and went through what seemed like an impossible hole?

Calvin: Well, I pulled my goggles down… I mean this is the first Derby that I've ever been in my life where they never would spread out horses, you know. The widest horse is maybe 4 wide the whole race. So I knew when I made my run if I had any kind of horse, I could have went around the three or four horses, but the opportunity comes in an open fence, so that’s why I went there. And I mean it took a split second, he was in and out of it, but I had a lot of horse. I knew I had a lot of horse. I mean I saw I could get in there and ride him to get in there.

Ron: Do you think that had you gone through the outside, you still could have won?

Calvin: Oh yes, sir. Yeah.

Ron: Really? Good. That’s good to know. Next question (From Carolyn) – this kind of something we've already touched on, but after the Oaks, you said that you were glad Rachel Alexandra didn’t run the Derby, but that you didn’t think the colts could have run with her. When would be the right time for her to face the boys, in your opinion?

Calvin: You know, I think she can take the boys any time she wants. Like I told y’all before, I think she’s the best filly in the country right now.

Ron: Best horse in the country?

Calvin: Best – yeah, in the country. Sir, I've never asked to do anything; she’s a freak, she’s unbelievable. I don’t know how good she is. It’s really scary. I mean I've never asked her to run – I mean I don’t know how good she is, sir.

Ron: I guess we’ll find out soon, right?

Calvin: Oh yeah, we’ll find out. We’ll have one coming along try to get us.

Ron: The next question comes from Alex C. “In watching your interaction with Mine That Bird at the barn the morning after the Derby, I got a sense that you have a deeper connection with that horse. Can you talk a little bit about your relationships with Mine That Bird and Rachel Alexandra.”

Calvin: I always have a good connection with my horse. I get on them in the morning, that helps a lot. You know, you get to feel them and everything. You know, you find their little pokes, this and that. In fact, I’d say Mine That Bird, I've got to give a lot of credit to the trainer because he had him so fit and ready to run. Like he told me before the race, all week long, he said “Calvin, the only thing I want you to do is just take him back to last and create a three-eighths of a mile run.” He said, “I've been on him myself, and I know he can go the last three-eighths in :36-:37,” but I never could get it either to do that. And when I started watching these reruns, I could see what he was talking about, you know, they were moving him about the three-quarter pole and then he’d make the lead about the 1/16th pole and just hang. It was taking everything out of him.

Ron: And that maybe what happened in the Derby with those other horses, right? I mean they used all their energy early?

Calvin: Exactly. I learned that from Carl Nafzger you know what I mean? The first three-quarters of a mile don’t mean nothing; it’s always the last half a mile.

Ron: That’s great to know. You're giving away some of your trade secrets here, Calvin. Next question – who have been your role models, both as a person and as a jockey?

Calvin: One of my brothers was obviously my brother. He kept me straight me all my life and made me work hard and accomplish everything.

Ron: And then as a jockey – role models.

Calvin: I was a great fan of Laffit Pincay. I just loved the way he’d finish on a horse. You know, he was strong. I mean I think he was the most – greatest rider in America, you know. Because he was so strong on a horse. I seen him hook ride at some lane, and he win the race, not the horse. He was my role model all the time.

Ron: Which other jockeys, either active or retired, did you admire the most?

Calvin: Pat Day – I admire Pat Day a lot, you know, because he had a lot of class. Very classy guy. And you know, we were very close. We were kind of in the same corner all the time. Pat helped me out a lot, you know, when I got depressed and stuff like that. You know, he sat down and talked to me and said you know, we have bad times, good times … he was always, always there to help me. I've got to give Pat a lot of credit about that, because he tried to help every rider; you know, that got down and stuff, you know… and I know one thing, he really, really helped me a lot.

Ron: That’s great. That’s what we always hear about Pat Day.

Calvin: Yes, sir, a good guy.

Ron: Next question – how many injuries have you had during your career, and which was the most serious?

Calvin: Hmm, I know I got about 37 bones busted, and then I stayed in intensive care for eight days when I had busted all my ribs and they took out my spleen, punctured my lungs, and ended up putting plastic ribs on, shattered my knees – it was really bad … it was about the second year in my career.

Ron: Wow. So I would say that with all that, it’d be hard to pick which one was the most serious.

Calvin: Yes, sir.

Ron: Does the possibility of injury enter your mind as you're riding in a race?

Calvin: No, sir. Not at all. When that’s gonna come, I’m gonna retire, sir. When I wake up one morning and ever think that I’m gonna be… you know, have any feeling that I’m going to be a little scared of something like that, I’m retiring, because I think that’s when you really will get hurt.

Ron: So you didn’t want to ride scared?

Calvin: No, sir. I can promise you that.

Ron: Next question – after your first Derby win, were you more in demand by trainers on a national basis that wanted you to travel around the country to ride in big races?

Calvin: Oh yes. Yes, sir. It helped a lot. We got a lot of calls to go ride different horses – good horses and stuff like that. It was a big stepping stone. I went to Saratoga and did so good there. Like I say, I've got to give a lot of credit to Mr. Carl for giving me the opportunity to ride Street Sense. I knew from day one, he was my horse, you know, win, lose or draw, and I knew he was a great horse. Yeah, it helped me a lot, believe me you.

Ron: Now, you and your agent, Jerry Hissam, have been together for a long time and obviously, you have a great working relationship. With your success in the Derbies and now the Oaks, have other agents tried to get you to go other places and lure you away?

Calvin: No. They know me and Jerry – we been together for 19 years, you know what I mean – they wouldn’t even ask that question because it would be a stupid question.

Ron: That’s good that they have enough sense to realize that.

Calvin: I've been with Jerry for 19 years and we've never had two bad words. We always work things out. I mean, I listen to him, he listens to me, and we just sit down and talk. It’s always been good. You know, I mean I never had an agent approach me, like I say, because they know it would be a stupid question.

Ron: Right. Gosh, 19 years, that’s longer than most marriages. I (From Kelly M.) would like to know if you have any rituals that you go through before every race? Do you have any superstitions?

Calvin: No, sir, I don’t have no superstitions. I get focused, pumped up, ready to ride. I look at the form, I go over it good, and I try to see where every horse is going to be in every race. And it’s not saying that that’s gonna happen, you know, some speed horses might get left. So you know, then I might put my horse in a little different position, but I don’t even know how my horse is going to break. So it’s kind of hard to say what’s gonna happen, you know. But 85% of the time, it almost happens like you expect it to happen, you know. That’s what I go by.

Ron: So you're more preparation, rather than superstition.

Calvin: Yes, sir. Oh yeah.

Ron: (From Emily LaBona) How did you know you wanted to be a jockey?

Calvin: When I was born, I wanted to be a jockey, sir. I mean I rode in the bush tracks, and I went to the 8th grade, I was on horses when I was 4 years old. When I left home, I was like 12 years old and my brother told me – told my mom and dad, you know, “he’s just a natural. He has nothing but talent, … you know, that’s what he wants to do,” and my dream was to win the Derby. And you know, my daddy just pulled me on the side and said “Son, if that’s what you wanna do, you're gonna have to work for it. Nobody’s gonna give it to you.” I worked every day and I got there.

Ron: So really, you were born to be a jockey.

Calvin: Yes, sir. I think I was.

Ron: Speaking of those days in Louisiana and early on, (From Eddie King Jr.) what's your craziest story about riding as a kid on the Louisiana bush tracks?

Calvin: Oh, I got a bunch of stories. I mean I would load races inside of the gate, and I was on the horse and I looked on the side, and they had a chicken tied on the other horse… I got to the gate sometimes … I mean we stayed in the gate for 45 minutes sometimes, you know, we were just running 36 feet you know, two jumps out the gate just trying to kill the other horse in the gate, you know, trying to not kill him, but just trying to beat him out … you know, get him upset and back and forth … I mean I could tell you all kind of stories. I mean I've seen gray horses they would paint black sometimes.

Ron: Sounds like a book. (From Mary) When’s the book going to come on Calvin Borel?

Calvin: I don’t know about that, sir.

Ron: You haven't signed any contracts with writers or agents yet?

Calvin: No, not really.

Ron: What about the movie?

Calvin: No, sir, not yet.

Ron: This is from Paul Senegal, Jr. – maybe you know him, I don’t know. “What is your favorite memory of Old Evangeline Downs?

Calvin: My favorite movie is Casey’s Shadow.

Ron: Casey’s Shadow. From Bob Reeves – “How did you get the nickname “Boo.”

Calvin: Because I was a boo-boo. J My mom and dad had me 12 years after my second brother – I mean my brother that comes before me. So I was a … she was 40-something years old when she had me, so that’s why they call me “Boo.”

Ron: Like a surprise.

Calvin: Yeah, a surprise.

Ron: Next question (From Omardakarai) – what dreams or goals do you have now that you’ve won the Derby twice and won the Oaks?

Calvin: Right now, my dream is just to stay healthy and get to my 5000 wins. That’s my next goal.

Ron: The 5000 win would be your next goal, and that’s, you know, a couple of hundred wins away?

Calvin: Yes, sir, I think I've got like 270 races to go.

Ron: What about Hall of Fame, is that a goal for you?

Calvin: I’d love to. You know, I mean … but it’s not a goal for me. It never was my goal. My next goal is to maybe get lucky and win another Derby and get up to win my 5000 career.

Ron: Next question (From Michael Hovarth) – I recall a story – hearing a story about you riding barrels around a barn which taught you how to ride the rail, but I can't remember that. Can you please relate that again.

Calvin: You know, when I first started riding, my brother, we had a bunch of scattered horses and I rode some horses, and I’d go around and my brother started putting cones around the shedrow, because I’d come back and walk them after they run… and he’d put them in the middle of the shedrow and I’d say what the hell you doing that for? He said “That’s how far you gone. You lose so much ground.” And I had to go all the way around the cones, so I realized that after that, I’m gonna start staying a little bit closer to the fence.

Ron: So really, the rail is the quickest way from start to finish.

Calvin: Not start to finish, but around the turn, I would say, yes, sir.

Ron: Next question – this is from Karen Arnold. “I am a jockey in training and want to know what it’s like to win the Kentucky Derby. My goal is to win the Derby.”

Calvin: You can't describe it. I mean it’s unbelievable. It’s emotional and you know, … I just wish my mom and dad was here to see what I accomplished in my career and that hurts me a lot. But I know they're watching with me or riding with me because it’s happening too easy.

Ron: The next question comes from another budding jockey, named Caitlin. “I’m waiting word from Chris McCarron about getting into the jockey school. I've wanted to be a jockey ever since I saw War Emblem and Espinoza go wire to wire in the 2002 Derby. Any advice about becoming a jockey?”

Calvin: Hard work. You’ve got to put hard work and have a [inaudible 19:08] to guide you like Chris McCarron to guide you. That’s why I think I've had success in my life because I had somebody to guide me since I was 12 years old. I see riders come along and make a lot of money when they're young and everything goes to hell, and you need a guide there, a guy like Chris McCarron to get you there.

Ron: (From Sky) Have you visited with Street Sense since he retired, and does he remember you?

Calvin: Oh yeah. I usually call him “Daddy Rabbit,” that’s his nickname – “Daddy Rabbit.” I go to Darley Farm and I’ll holler at him “Daddy Rabbit,” and his ears will perk up. He knows.

Ron: (From Shannon) Do you have a fan club? I live in the northwest and would like to keep tabs on what's new with you?

Calvin: Not officially, no.

Ron: But you do have a lot of fans.

Calvin: Oh I do have a lot of fans.

Ron: (From Christine P.) What is your favorite Cajun food?

Calvin: It used to be crawfish, but I can't eat that anymore. I started breaking out into hives. I like etouffee and boudin, cracklins

Ron: What do you do in your spare time, or do you have spare time?

Calvin: I don’t have much spare time, but I love to hunt and fish.

Ron: Do you hunt and fish around Kentucky, or do you go all over the country?

Calvin: No, I really think when I go to Hot Springs is the most time I get to hunt and fish.

Ron: Is that one reason that Hot Springs, let’s say rather than Fair Grounds is on your list of where you go every year?

Calvin: Yes, sir, it is. We usually just go to Hot Springs, you know, freshen up a little bit and get ready.

Ron: (From DeeDee) Why in the world, knowing you're riding propensity and success, do the other jockeys not keep an eye out for you?

Calvin: Well most of them, you know, you’ve got to concentrate on your own horse. Do you know what I mean? And some horses don’t like to be on the inside, some horses don’t like to be on the outside. And you know, when the horse runs up to you, they're usually running up on the outside and you know, they’ll try to make your horse go to them and to make your horse break, you know … it’s just a combination of things.

Ron: Our final question comes from Ruthie Roberts. “We are proud of you. When will you and Lisa marry?”

Calvin: Oh I don’t know, sir. We were supposed to get married five years ago, and just … as long as this keeps going on, I don’t know when we’re getting married.

Ron: So it’s just like riding a horse from far back, just be patient.

Calvin: Yes, sir. That’s the name of the game.

Ron: Listen, Calvin, like I said, we had hundreds of questions. I've narrowed it down to what were the most popular and tried to mix it up a little bit. We certainly appreciate your time and congratulations and good luck.

Calvin: Okay, sir. Thank you. Bye bye.