Rock and Roll

re: Rock and Roll

Huh — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 01:53:22 GMT

Since Asmussen got hit with a drug violation anyone else think that just like Big Brown, Curlin could be running with steroids.

re: Rock and Roll

Jed Dog — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 13:24:56 GMT

I agree with you Kelly. I just think we have dug a hole for ourselves when it comes to breeding stronger boned thoroughbreds. Those PETA freak's and the like don't understand that what horses love to do is race and see who is the best. They get excited when they know they are going to race. If you have ever watched horses in the wild, it's always the strongest and fastest horse that leads the herd. I have never seen a horse that won more tired than the ones that lost. They know when they win. They is a photo that epitomizes the competitive nature of thoroughbreds. It's call "The Savage" It's a old photo of a head-on stretch shot where two horse's are side by side and one is reaching over trying to bite the other on the neck. As fast as these guys run, that just blows me away.

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Bellwether — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 09:07:03 GMT

what the hell is wrong with 4 1/2f races...they put on a hell of a show & a ton of dough @ CT last week...Long Live The The King!!!

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Wanda — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 22:59:25 GMT

I submited a question to Alex Brown on Talkn' Horses about the chance of Curlin running on Woodbine's Turf course.He said they were looking at a start on turf if he worked good over it.That would be huge for Woodbine if he ran there plus SA has a string based there already.From my standpoint he's a home boy already cause he's related to many Canadian champions.

re: Rock and Roll

aspradling — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 20:08:53 GMT

Thanks to Amidala, I have the link to the story online.

www.bloodhorse.com/.../44533.aspx

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aspradling — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:51:44 GMT

DANYLSON: Please double check your caps lock before posting, thanks for your input though =)

Kelly: I will research and post what I find for you. It would be interesting to see. Things that differ and may skew stats are that Europe has less horses, all turf racing and supposedly no drugs...

Page 2065 of the issue number 16, dated April 19, 2008. This article is an update on injury numbers in the US.

re: Rock and Roll

Kelly S — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:03:25 GMT

Jed, I see what you're saying. I have just been so frustrated lately by so-called "animal lovers" who feel that all animals should be treated with kid gloves. I love animals, too, but I don't think they need to be handled like the slightest breeze will shatter them. To me, that's more of an injustice to them, but I digress. I would love to find out the difference in breakdowns between the US and Europe, also. Adam, do you have any idea where this could be found?

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DANYLSON — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:35:14 GMT

I AGREE TURF RACING IS AWESOME AND LONG DISTANCE IS GREAT TOO. I DISAGREE WITH THE THOROUGHBRED GETTING WEAKER OR FRAGILE,IT IS MORE WITH THE TRAINING AND OUR CRAZE WITH SPEED.THE HORSE OF TODAY IS FASTER,STRONGER THEN EVER JUST THAT THE RACES ARE ALL 4-8 FURLONGS AND THAT IS A BIG PROBLEM. WE NEED TO GO BACK TO THE LONG DISTANCE RACING. 1 1/2 MILE A RACE PER CARD WOULDN'T HURT AND THE BIG RACES NEED TO EXTEND(THE JOCKEY CLUB GOLD CUP NEEDS TO GO BACK TO 12 FURLONGS OR MORE AND THE BROOKLYN HANDICAP AS WELL, I THINK A CHANGE IN TRAINING TOO,TRAINERS ARE SCARED OF INJURIES THAT THEY ARE UNDER TRAINING...I CAN'T COMPREHEND HOW A 1200 POUND ANIMAL CAN'T RUN ALL OUT FOR AT LEAST 15 STARTS A YEAR..ONLY THE CLAIMERS DO IT AND I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW THE BREAKDOWNS OF THOSE CLAIMER COMPARED TO HIGH CLASS HORSES...I CAN BET THAT THERE ARE FAR FEWER BREAKDOWNS WITH CLAIMERS THEN GR.1 RUNNERS...AT LEAST THAT IS MY OPINION,BECAUSE THEY RUN AND TRAIN MORE THAN THE HIGH CALIBER HORSE

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Jed Dog — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:41:10 GMT

Kelly S, I see both points of view, but you kind of validated my statement about 2YO's. Yes a long time ago they race at 2, but that was when they were a much sturdier animal. Breeders tend to breed for speed, which in my opinion makes for a more fragile breed. To me it's a give and take thing. Think of it like a scale, one side has speed and fragility the other has stamina and soundness. Every once in a while you get a freak that has speed and stamina, like Big Brown. But they are rare. My idea on 2YO's will never happen. From a economic stand point, it's ridiculous. I wish they could apply some restraint like you said by having slower times, but that wouldn't be racing. I wonder what the difference is in number of breakdowns between US and Europe?

I agree with you that there should be more pressure on the breeding industry to breed a sturdier breed. Another crazy idea would be to have a regulatory body than would condone or disallow matings. If someone breed to a speed family sire and a speed family dam, they would not be allowed to register the horse. If you want to force it on them, that is the way it's done. I don't think anybody would want that, but that is what a industry needs when it can't do what is right. I am not crazy, just thinking outside the box here.

re: Rock and Roll

aspradling — Wed, 25 Jun 2008 20:29:06 GMT

Thank you all for your great responses and good insight. I definitely want Curlin to rock the Arc, and know what I think and feel, but am just curious what other people may be thinking. So thanks for that discussion.

Paula: I am afraid I didn't quite get what you mean.

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Paula — Wed, 25 Jun 2008 18:40:37 GMT

Still can't imagine that you could write "the team you love to hate may have started the ball rolling."

Talk about a cheap publicity stunt.

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Paula Weglarz — Wed, 25 Jun 2008 18:27:56 GMT

Would be BOLD and Ground-breaking IF it weren't for the fact that ANYONE who wants to run in the Breeders' Cup better be off the "junk" by October 1st (or sooner) since this is a "steroid-free" BC. And btw, aren't most racing jurisdictions adopting the RMTC model rule this year? I think it's a goal of the NTRA, and other organizations to get this sport "steroid free" in 2009.

I call this "attention grabbing" - and find the "challenge" to other owners offensive.

Why didn't they do this PRIOR to the big RUN this year for Big Brown?

re: Rock and Roll

Kelly S — Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:36:03 GMT

If Curlin can handle turf, I don't think he will be disgraced. He isn't really the typical weak American horse. He seems more durable. I like to think that he would be in the top 3, but I would have to see him race on turf here first before I make that judgement call.

I openly admit that I could not stand IEAH prior to the Derby. I have never been a fan of these investment groups, as they are here to make money, not uphold racing tradition. I still cannot stand the fact that they gave in to the early retirement trend with Big Brown; however, they gained a lot of respect from me for actually taking that first step towards eliminating medication. A lot of people keep talking, but here are owners who actually did something. Of course, there's always the possibility that they did it to negate all of the negative publicity they got during the TC, but who cares? I applaud them, whatever their reasons. The first step towards change is always the biggest. I would like to someday see Lasix/Salix eliminated also, but this is better than nothing.

I don't agree with Jed on the distance and age issues. Keep in mind, European horses (which seem to be a good standard to judge by) race at age 2 and race at sprint distances. The problem doesn't lie in age and distance, it lies in speed itself. It always seems we are pushing the breed to go faster and faster. I like race times as just a point of reference, but we need to let go of the obsession with trying to get them lower. Sprint races are a good way to bring a 2-year-old into racing slowly, but a nice time of 1:12 or so would be just fine. They don't need to be able to go 1:10 or less in their first start. A lot of people want to place the blame on the horses "being too young," but horses have been racing at age 2 all over the world since racing began. There are other factors at work in the US that are causing our racehorses to be more fragile, particularly breeding. You don't just get a sturdier breed overnight, but if enough pressure is placed on the industry, hopefully we can turn the tide and stop breeding genetic defects back into the pool.

That's just my long-winded opinion, though! :)

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Melissa G — Wed, 25 Jun 2008 15:49:15 GMT

Ironic that two days after IEAH decides to stop using all steroids, Dutrow gets handed a suspension for using steroids. Maybe they'll find themselves a new trainer??

It was only last year the Smart Strike had a champion turf offspring named English Channel. So you can make an argument there on Curlin's potential for grass. What would be really great to see would be a rematch between Curlin and Einstein on "Einstein's Turf" (pun intended) over July 12th weekend since Einstein seems to be a better on grass than dirt. Of course if Curlin hadn't been in the Stephen Foster, Einstein probably would have won....

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Jed Dog — Wed, 25 Jun 2008 13:52:16 GMT

I think it is refreshing that Curlin might race in Europe.

As for racing distances, I think they should cut out all race's under 7 furlongs. That would force Breeder's to breed for more stamina. To me stamina and durability go hand in hand. I also think they should only allow 2YO's to start racing in August. No spring racing. This will allow them to grow a little more before they start training hard and get injected with who knows what medication. I may be understating that. Maybe they shouldn't start racing until they are 3. Everybody wants the quick return. People should not get into racing if they are trying to make money. If they do make a profit, consider it a bonus. It must be for the passion of the sport. Money is the single most greatest corrupter of any institution. To all the breeders out there, BREED FOR THE LONGEVITY OF THE THOROUGHBRED, NOT FOR THE QUICK RETURN. Sorry for the rant and little off topic.

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Bellwether — Wed, 25 Jun 2008 05:39:50 GMT

Exposure & Promotion won't hurt the game either...Long Live The King!!!...Bellwether is one of the newbees on the block...

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needler in Virginia — Tue, 24 Jun 2008 23:17:43 GMT

Well said, and thanks. We need to hear more of this and less of "we can fix racing if we wait loooong enough."

Cheers.

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jj — Tue, 24 Jun 2008 22:39:48 GMT

The old great trainers used steroids like hay. Why are we letting PETA [who has proven again and again they are unaware or what really goes on in racing] as well as the general public, dictate how we treat our horses? Isn't the steroid testing after races enough? :(