War Emblem

re: War Emblem

#1QueenRuffian — Mon, 24 Jun 2013 00:39:51 GMT

After reading the interesting accounts by Smartysgal and Keneck I feel War Emblem's actions just may be the begining of things to come. Mother nature is stepping in and proclaiming enough is enough! By man's constant manipulation of the Thoroughbreds breeding, inbreeding, linebreeding & forced breeding in a relatively small gene pool I fear there will be a tipping point and could well be disastorous. ..after all mother nature, natural selective breedinghas done well without our assistance. It some of the would think that a proud intelligent horse has every right to "act out" when continuously deprived of their natural freedom.Walk a mile in the horses shoe and see what kind of action you display. ( Let alone forced,upon demand( and I'm sure they detect the " hurry up sentiments waving off the handlers.I am surprised that has worked all this time. Oh yes, interesting the pig likes the coarse mix breed pigs to mate and the Stallion Kenek related about produced mares with no milk, colts and foals in general of poor quality. Seems the stallion instictively knew better than man.Far more intelligent perhaps?? Well I best shutup now, besides my phones screen is going "buckwild" and I can't see what I'm writing. Please excuse.

re: War Emblem

cameo — Wed, 08 Aug 2012 23:40:20 GMT

Try making the mare look different. Then rub vicks on his nose, not a lot just a little bit. Always worked for me. He will not get the usual mare smell.

Don't laugh until you try it.

re: War Emblem

plodderman — Thu, 26 Jul 2012 15:06:37 GMT

Get English Speaking handlers. Case closed. (not kidding) I've seen this before.

re: War Emblem

Cassandra.Says — Wed, 25 Jul 2012 17:21:13 GMT

Mistress:

There's a thought. Somebody should ask how he behaves with mares he's bred before. If he'll have them back, or even quite a few of them, the stud should buy them and put together a broodmare band just for him.

I read somewhere that he showed a preference for small chestnuts. His dam is bay, so that's not it.

re: War Emblem

Justine — Sun, 22 Jul 2012 18:58:28 GMT

Why would Japan allow artificial insemination if it means those Thoroughbreds can't race/breed in the US (or other countries)? It seems to be a global rule that racing Thoroughbreds must be conceived via live cover; why would you expect anything different?

re: War Emblem

captainsmistress — Sat, 21 Jul 2012 03:34:59 GMT

Live cover or nothing in this country. Japan? I don't know, anyone know?

re: War Emblem

captainsmistress — Fri, 20 Jul 2012 03:20:25 GMT

No kidding, Cassandra, one would have to be out of his or her mind to turn a mare out with this nut case! Even the ones he has bred before!

re: War Emblem

quiet american — Fri, 20 Jul 2012 01:19:57 GMT

ok heres a thought.... why dont they just use a tease and collect semen and use frozen semen or live shipments of semen to breed mares? we do this with the morgan breed especially if the stallions are still showing...collect n freeze the semen thus allowing multiple mares to be bred and not tired and stressing the stud.... i dont know if the TB breed is allowed to do this and if not should be considered. this would infact help War emblem or be a viable alternative.

re: War Emblem

Cassandra.Says — Thu, 19 Jul 2012 23:35:38 GMT

Would some of you really be willing to turn your mare out to pasture with this horse? He attacks mares with teeth and feet, guys! If the welfare of females isn't on your radar, consider the value of the mares he's being offered.

I'd expect the mares to emerge from an afternoon in the field with him showing signs of being shy breeders themselves in future.

re: War Emblem

:46 Breezing — Thu, 19 Jul 2012 19:43:37 GMT

A huge THANK YOU to Michele MacDonald whose devotion to chronicling the trials and tribulations of War Emblem is GREATLY APPRECIATED.

In short, War Emblem is the horse that CHANGED MY LIFE. His exploits fascinated me and reignited my long dormant interest in horse racing. Because of War Emblem, I changed career paths and found my dream job as a member of the industry media, where I have 'lived the dream' for the past 8 years.

I was late to the War Emblem bandwagon, missing both the Illinois and Kentucky Derby wins, but marveled when, with a massive target on his back, he engineered a brilliant stalk and pounce win in the Preakness. Then there was the much talked about stumble and flame out in the Belmont. But the fact War Emblem showed the heart to rebound after his nose scraped the dirt at the break…. and then make the lead at the mile mark showed how much heart he had. He returned to his old self wiring the field in the Haskell next out, before getting dusted in the Pacific Classic and later the BC Classic. But he left his mark and was named Champion 3 yo in 2002.

Thanks to Michele MacDonald and others, I’ve followed War Emblem's Japanese adventure with great interest. I too thank and salute the handlers at Shadai for their ingenuity and patience in dealing with this horse…. a horse so close to my heart. His ill-tempered demeanor goes well back to his racing days. When Bob Baffert took over the training duties, he was able to calm WE by giving him mints and making some minor equipment changes...but he famously said..."I still wouldn't turn my back on that dude."

I will never turn my back on the horse that changed my life and have dreamt about making the pilgrimage to Japan to come face to face with my hero, feed him some mints and say THANK YOU. ALL THE BEST…. you jet black son of a gun.

re: War Emblem

duchess — Thu, 19 Jul 2012 17:36:15 GMT

I read in another forum (at Pedigree Inquiry) some time ago in a discussion of bad tempered mares that a known problem mare once tried to attack War Emblem in a horse van when he was a three year old being moved from Illinois (right after he won the Illinois Derby) to Kentucky (this before his Derby win).

Does anyone know if that story is true?

And if it is, could something like that affect the "psychology" (for lack of a better term) of a colt and affect his breeding preferences, etc.?

the story is here:

www.pedigreequery.com/.../viewtopic.php

re: War Emblem

DanC — Thu, 19 Jul 2012 17:20:08 GMT

Meydan Rocks:

I for one am not just worried for horses overseas, but here as well. For all the talk of owners who "love" their horses, this seems more akin to how one loves a share of stock they own; as long as it is profitable, they care, once it is no longer profitable, time to get rid of.

re: War Emblem

old cowgirl — Thu, 19 Jul 2012 04:16:12 GMT

I used to have a Quarter Horse stallion that got to be a rather shy, disinterested breeder as he got older. When I turned him out in the pasture with mares, if the mare was very sweet in strong heat he didn't pay much attention to her. When he walked up to a somewhat crabby mare that started to kick, he would get into a little chasing match with her, and all of a sudden his testosterone level rose a lot and he became very interested in breeding her. Maybe some horses need a challenge?

re: War Emblem

Meydan Rocks — Thu, 19 Jul 2012 00:13:29 GMT

I'm completely mystified.

How come we’re so worried about a "Ferdinand clase" thousands of miles away and yet RIGHT HERE in our backyards we don't utter a peep about this...

www.bloodhorse.com/.../asmussen-mares-now-at-remember-me-rescue

I'll rest my case and BITE my tongue... hard.

re: War Emblem

an ole railbird — Wed, 18 Jul 2012 21:57:24 GMT

i am completely disappointed that war emblem has turned out this way.

i was really impressed with him in his racing days.

my mother always said out of all bad, there comes some good.

maybe the good in this story, is that, he is in japan & we wont have to worry about them bringing his off spring over here & out running us with them.

have a nice day

" an ole railbird"

re: War Emblem

JoyJackson21 — Wed, 18 Jul 2012 21:51:54 GMT

Hooray!! How wonderful it is to have news of War Emblem again! Thank you, Bloodhorse.com, for this article and beautiful pictures of War Emblem. I had heard a couple of years ago he had been doing better in the breeding area, then this year that he was being very selective once again in choosing mares and that his breeding had dropped off. This alarmed me a little.

First, I have to say War Emblem looks fantastic! He looks almost like he did in his racing days. I liked him from the very second I first saw him in the Illinois Derby, and I have always been taken with his story. His story made me protective of him. It's good to see him looking so good.

Second, I have to say I am relieved (and impressed) that the Shadai Corp., and Mr. Yoshida, have been very patient and kind to War Emblem over the years. He has posed many challenges to them, and they have handled the situation with great grace. I am grateful to them for that.

I think War Emblem might be a little homesick, you never know. He also just may be picky, sort of a "one-woman-at-a-time man", so to speak. War Emblem is selective, that's all. There's nothing wrong in that. In fact, I know some humans that could learn a few life lessons in that area. - LOL.

If everyone stops pressuring him and looking at him every second while he is procreating, he might relax more and choose to mate with a few mares of his own choosing, a much happier experience for him and the mares. So far, War Emblem's progeny are very highly prized, so they can give him a little leeway in this department.

My biggest concern about War Emblem has always been that he was sold before the "Ferdinand Clause" was common business practice in sales to Japanese breeders. I am happy to hear that the Shadai Farm has a nice place for him to go to once his breeding days have ended. I'm sure he would be welcomed back home in the States to someplace wonderful like Old Friends. I'm sure War Emblem would LOVE IT there! In fact, bring him home when the time does come. It would cure his homesickness, which would be a wonderful gift to War Emblem. What a great champion he is, I still deeply care for him, and his excellent welfare, in my heart. He will always be special to me. Continued good fortune to you, War Emblem!

re: War Emblem

an ole railbird — Wed, 18 Jul 2012 21:46:58 GMT

as a teenager i was employeed by 1 of our neighbors, who was an old "horse rancher". he ran big herds of mares on lots of land. in a country where land is reffered to in sections, rather than acres.

he was a survivor of the old breed , who had had their livings& land payments,by raiseing horses & selling them to the goverment for remount horses. after the goverment quit buying horses, these few die hards, kept raiseing horses & trying to sell them on the open market. this rancher was determined to continue breeding TB stallions on the mares that he had bred up for over 20 generations.

this man went to california & bought the stallion of his choice, off of the race track.

it was soon discovered that this stallion was a timid breeder. at times would turn up his nose & walk off from a mare in full heat.

the boss tried a few tricks that he knew. all without sucess.

the stud was turned out in 330 acres (1/2 section), with 6 fillys (4 year old). the pasture was very iosalated from anyother horses.

i was asigned the duty to ride the pasture , once a week, to visual inspection of the horses.

1st week report. the mares all bunched & happy in 1 side of the pasture. the stallion was in a completely different side, all alone.

2nd week report the same.

3rd week report was the same. from tracks & sign, i reported that the stud was walking the fence line, constantly circleing the pasture.

4th week. there was a bad truck wreck, almost in front of the gate to the studs pasture.

the trailer in volved in this wreck was a 45 ft straight deck with open top. it had 10 head of ranch geldings, in route to be used in a ranch roundup. as the trailer rolled, it chunked all of the horses out & into a box shaped ravine. after evicting the horses the trailer rolled up on its top (wheels sticking up)& slid part way down into the ravine, blocking the horses exit. due to the remote area, the wreck was not discovered for several hours. the driver had suffered a heart attack& never recovered from the accident.

1 of the horse was destroyed as soon as he was found. 3 more were transported to a vet clinic( the closest) 65 miles away.

the remaining 6 head of horses were diognosed as being "skinned up & scared". & were led inside of the gate,of the studs pasture, & released.

dutys didnt allow me to go back to the pasture for 2 more weeks.

after which i returned with a group of full blown cowboys, whose intentions were to gather the herd & sort of the geldings & leave the mares & the cantankeros stud.

low & behold what did we find?

the stud had all the mares bunched& was making them do as he desired. he not only was driving them, he was performing all of his duties, as a stallion.

the geldings were in the other side of the pasture, all to them selves.nobody knows what all went on in those 2 weeks.but it made that stud jealous.

the stud was kept & bred for 4 years. he was always a timid breeder & preferred the wide open spaces.

he was then gelded & put in the saddle horse string. & used as a ranch horse.

his sons were gelded & trained for ranch work. & were judged as fair to poor quality.

his mares were bred& allowed to foal. after a generation was tested they were culled, because of their in ability to produce enough milk to raise a quality colt. the papers were sent in to the jockey club, & the mares were sent to slaughter.

these were the practices in those days. and the results were the sound & strong breed that were the ancestors of the horses that we race now.

if the TB breed is GOING TO HELL IN A HAND BASKET, as some of the commentors like to claim it is.

then it is time to practice some of the ways that history teaches us, were so sucessiful. thank you for allowing me to share this story with you.

i remain " an ole railbird".

re: War Emblem

kenek — Wed, 18 Jul 2012 20:35:42 GMT

It was mentioned in the article that mares are turned away if War Emblem tries to bite or kick them. Maybe these are the mares he would really like to breed instead of the more docile ones. Stallions can be muzzled and a good handler would be able to ensure no one is kicked. War Emblem may like his sex on the rough side.

re: War Emblem

deb — Wed, 18 Jul 2012 17:44:07 GMT

The Shadai Corp is very good to War Emblem. He may enjoy more pasture time or riding time and then try to breed. Maybe he needs a part time job (the riding) before he plays? What an interesting horse! They must be very fond of him to try to help him so much. I hope it pays off.

re: War Emblem

Ivan John — Wed, 18 Jul 2012 17:03:31 GMT

Turn Him out to pasture with a select group of Mares and leave them alone,don't mess with them at all, let him alone! Don't watch him constantly,let him be a natural horse.He will breed if you quit messing with him. IT's a people problem not a horse problem. One of my studs once he has his band together in the spring will not allow another to be introduced. He just runs them out even when they are in full heat.

re: War Emblem

DawnStorm — Wed, 18 Jul 2012 15:19:57 GMT

First off, wow! War Emblem looks great! Second, I thought of pasture breeding as well, but it seems that's already been tried. Kudos with a capital K to Shadai Corp who have gone above and beyond the call of duty in working with this horse. If there are other horse sports in Japan, then maybe War Emblem could be bred to other breeds as Slew suggested. I just saw a video of the USA-born stallions over in Japan, and they all look like they could go to the post tomorrow! Dr. Bill, are stallions regularly exercised where you work(ed)?

re: War Emblem

Karen in Texas — Wed, 18 Jul 2012 15:19:05 GMT

Dr. Bill and Justine----Thanks so much for your enlightened remarks! Several of us (on Steve Haskin's blogs) have attempted to allay the anxiety of the "Ferdinand fearful" to no avail over the past few weeks. As you say, Justine, this is the 21st century and tracking overseas stallions is no longer too difficult--just a computer click and comment box away. I even discovered and linked a database showing various Japanese stallions being pensioned on their respective farms, but apparently few found this to be helpful. It's great to hear first-hand that Shadai is such a good place. Thanks again.

re: War Emblem

happyticket — Wed, 18 Jul 2012 14:31:44 GMT

Dr. Bill says that pasture breeding has been tried, but to what extent? How long was he left with the mares? How many mares was he given. I agree that he should be given a very large field with a few mares in it and leave him in there for a few months. I understand that, that is uneconomical for breeders, but you got to do what is right by the horse. If so and so can't leave their broodmare in a pasture for a couple months and may not know the exact day she was bred(I have no idea if you can actually register a foal with little info)but it would be worth a try if it hasn't been tried for that long. Yeah horses bite and kick and they are going to get some cuts, scrapes, and bruises, but that is what they do in the wild. Who Knows?

re: War Emblem

Sumiko Keay — Wed, 18 Jul 2012 13:21:01 GMT

I read that War Emblem's daughter has 2 foals: a 2011 colt by Deep Impact and a 2012 colt by Neo Universe.

I was wondering if any of War Emblem's other get have retired to stud and what they've produced.

re: War Emblem

Dr. Bill — Wed, 18 Jul 2012 10:33:25 GMT

As someone who works directly with Shadai Corp I can tell you that pasture breeding has been tried with War Emblem without success. I can also tell you that Shadai Corp has a retirement farm for their pensioned stallions where they are allowed to live out thier life under very good conditions; he is in a very good place. By the way, War Emblems's offspring do not share his quirky temperament, that is one reason why Shadai Corp continues to work with him as a stallion.