At Large - All Comments

re: A Different Take on Pari-Mutuel Takeout

Vic Harrison — Mon, 09 Nov 2009 18:57:04 GMT

Takeout,Commission,Retainage (here in VA) - The broad answer to the basic problem facing the racing/wagering industry can be found in the remodeling of the pari-mutuel takeout. Throw Breakage and Outs in there too and we can have one helluva summit, the purpose of which would be saving/uniting our industry.

NTRA, TRA, HTA, USTA, AGTOA, Breeders, Owners, Regulators, Racetracks, (Net Importers and Net Exporters), ADW Providers, Journalists, Consultants, Tote Companies, Video/Comms Providers - someone please call a meeting and invite the best and brightest minds from these entities. Our industry can be successful. Let's start by addressing the issue of takeout.

Great article, David - great food for thought. Thanks for posting it, Tom

re: A Different Take on Pari-Mutuel Takeout

Tom LaMarra — Mon, 09 Nov 2009 16:04:32 GMT

This one seems to have sent everyone hiding under a rock. ... Very interesting.

re: A Different Take on Pari-Mutuel Takeout

Terry Cullipher — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 16:02:14 GMT

Great article. Very interesting.

This seems to be very simple math. So the question is: Are the presidents and general managers of the racetracks incompetent, lazy, or just plain don't care. Of course, you can't leave the racetrack owner out of this question. They 're not above being held accountable.

re: It's About Much More Than Purses

Shawn P — Fri, 23 Oct 2009 21:13:19 GMT

I'm starting to think 'WE' are failing because with 'fans, supporters and writers' like these, who needs enemies?

re: It's About Much More Than Purses

Will — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 18:10:11 GMT

The declining handle can be sum up by a couple things. It is the complexity of this game and failure of the NTRA marketing.

One main problem is the condition book getting so complicated nowadays. If you read the old racing forms you would not have to memorize every possible notation in it. It only had claiming, allowance, starter allowance, and stakes with just restriction on age and sex. These days you would have state-bred or no win in the last 3 months, and optional claiming that typical gamblers would have problem figuring it out, never mind someone who rarely goes to the racetrack.

The takeout rate is not important unless you are a professional trying to squeeze every cent possible arbitraging every race. If you are a causal fan or gambler, that would not be an issue. My only concern would be the odds that would justified my risk. Does anyone think about the takeout rate when they buy a scratch ticket (up to 50% takeout at some state if not more since the jackpot is paid in an annuity) or sit on a blackjack table?

It's probably not possible to change the condition book because it helps breeders and owners so they can race their horses that have no place to be running if it wasn't for the differentiation in class and condition. It's probably still possible for NTRA fix it by better marketing.

NTRA failed miserably at marketing the sport. They attempted to advertise the glamorous by interviewing celebrities who they like at the Derby. At the end of the day, they are only there to be seen on the Millionaire's Row on the first Saturday in May. What they have to focus on is GREED!!! That is the essence of horse racing if you are not the owner who races the horses try to make that quick buck. The bottom-feeders and small gamblers that are trying to hit the jackpot on a daily basis at the simulcast parlor.

Why don't I see them advertising by interviewing or showing someone winning 10 thousand dollars on a trifecta bet by tri-boxing 3 horses or someone who just hit the sole ticket on a 5-day carryover? I was born in Hong Kong, and what keeps bringing people back to the races is hitting the triple trifecta (having the trifecta at each of the 3 designated races on the race) that pays out on average 250K USD every race day. They can also play the greed angle that the betting menu is catering to different people (i.e.Win Place Show for people to play it safe or Superfecta for people that swing for the fences).

They should get it by now considering how much they pay an advertising firm to advertise. Slots are definitely a temporary solution to subsidize the declining handle. If they want to improve this game, they will need to improve from within.

re: It's About Much More Than Purses

Edward — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 15:42:33 GMT

Kentucky Derby Purse is not $10 million? Contemplate that and a lot of the cockroaches come into the light.

re: It's About Much More Than Purses

Edward — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 15:33:57 GMT

You have to be blind if you compare the issues in horse racing to the mild downturn in major sports caused by a slow economy. The NBA makes money hand over fist Shawn, even in a down year. One out of how many horses become stallions syndicated for a payment of $50 million? Pro athletes sign multiple contracts that dwarf this sum; hence, you can ascertain that the teams make huge money. Horse racing cannot be fixed by anyone currently involved in the industry. There are way too many groups that once you get past the single thing they all have in common, horse racing( even though everything else is placed on top of this), they have no common interest at all. In fact, they have competing interests. Its an industry filled with small people with small imaginations.

re: It's About Much More Than Purses

Graeme Beaton — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 11:53:29 GMT

Tom

You are right. There has to be a more comprehensive plan to save racing, but that plan has to be applied nationally. Kentucky is only part of the story. Similar conditions exist everwhere where racing is held. Slots are good as a temporary prop while we sort out are fundamental problems. Nothing more than that. Because if we don't place racing on a sound basis, then nothing will save us in the long run.

We are losing fans, bettors and owners because:

1. People are tired of the cheating, doping, and breakdowns and the perception that we are hurting the animals. And that is eroding our fan base and our betting handle and purses. Remedy: Ban all race-day medication. Fine and suspend and BAN trainers and veterinarians uniformly across all 38 jurisdictions. Legal drugs (lasix etc) are masking illegal drugs. Drugs (bute etc) are masking injuries and infirmities which result in breakdowns. Get rid of them, as all other major racing nations have done. And how much would banning medication save owners annually? We either do it ourselves or let PETA et al push the States/Feds into forcing us to do it.

2. Lower takeout nationally and uniformly. Ours is an inferior betting product not only for reason 1., but because it is a lousy deal compared to other forms of gambling.

3. Introduce nationally a humane whip. Other countries and some states are trying it. Nothing seems to turn prospective fans off more (apart from perceived doping and break-downs) than crazed jockeys whipping the snot out of horses who have run themselves into the ground already. It is cruelty, plain and simple, as is asking horses to run when they are not sound - and medication feeds into this perception as well.

4. We have to treat these horses as athletes about to give their all. Allowing them to warm up properly as they do in other countries is only humane. We jog them next to a (often) fat-assed pony that can barely raise a canter and expect them to be ready to burst out of the starting gate from a standing start with all muscles properly conditioned. Get rid of the ponies! They are another unnecessary tax on the owner.

5. Yes, promotion is important but there is not one racing body that appears to know what to do in this regard, despite the millions spent on hiring 'experts' and forming committees, think tanks, alliances, associations etc etc etc.

The only solution I can see to all of the above is to form a truly national league office and the only way to do that is to get the heads of the NTRA, the Breeders' Cup, the Racing Commissioners International, the HBPA, the Jockey Club and the other main horse racing organizations in one room and lock them in there until they come up with a truly national compact covering everything from medication to takeout. Yes, they will have to go back to their respective States and win endorsement from politicians and political appointees and bureaucrats. It won't be easy, but it would be better than standing by and watching racing die one day at a time, one track at a time. Or possibly worse still, stand by as the Feds and PETA come in and seize control.

re: It's About Much More Than Purses

BELLWETHER — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 06:39:31 GMT

"Mac THE KNIFE"!!!...RIGHT ON TIME...THANKS MY MAN...

re: It's About Much More Than Purses

Shawn P — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 21:03:12 GMT

Mike M. Almost every trainer out there owns horses or is in partners on them. Some have a % ownership. You know that Wayne Lukas owned a % of Winning Colors?

Nobody really knew that at the time though.

Frankel, Jill Baffert, Lukas, Jones, Hollendorfer etc, etc, etc all own or co own horses. There are TOO many to list who do.

It's hard to make a profit, but at least a break even is nice, that's what the good purses do. Just the 'one' horse can get you in the black. That is what keeps people in the game.

Funny, some of the best businessmen in the world own racehorses.

Now YOU definitely sound burned out, sour grapes or someone who was in over their head from the getgo.

re: It's About Much More Than Purses

rayctrac — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 19:51:48 GMT

Novanora, you are an idiot. QH racing was not originally designed "to duplicate the stretch run."

re: It's About Much More Than Purses

Shawn P — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 18:47:24 GMT

I'm not 'looking down' on anyone. I'm just saying that the purses are what drives the industry. No way around that.

I see the farms here shutting down, the trainers and owners getting out ot the game and the breeders shipping to places where the incentives are better and that is due to the revenue from the VLT's.

I love when the track is packed with fans, but even though some of the biggest races are packed, the handle is down at those tracks.

Like the person talking about Zia?

Well they have VLT's and THAT is why they can offer those big purses and breeder incentives.

I think following the stories and people in racing is great. But what happens on a lot of blogs is it becomes a trashing session for people to complain about the individuals and the game itself.

The problem I'm addressing is the fact that 'some,' not all, people think the 'fans' can carry this game and they simply can't. Because the track owners profit from that, not really the horsemen.

Some bad decisions have been made (by the NTRA and BC), like selling the product to ESPN and then they never show races and there are still a lot of folks out there who WOULD be fans but they don't have cable/satellite in these tough economic times.

TVG is the same thing as far as availability.

I do feel that the sport will be here in some form, the horsemen who love it will see to that. I do fear that the capital of the TB racing world, Kentucky, will need to have something done to help us or it will be racing in Penn, NM, Indiana, etc. Places where the handle doesn't decide who can afford to stay in the game because the handle doesn't seem to be going anywhere.

I think I'm frustrated and sad more than anything that the realization isn't out there that with inferior purses comes an inferior product. Then WHO at all would want to even watch that?

Read Chip Wooley's comments about when he came for the KY Derby and how he was shocked at the state of racing in KY. How VLTs saved NM horse racing, increased the purses, bettered the breed and is drawing folks from all over to run there.

re: It's About Much More Than Purses

MikeM — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 18:23:41 GMT

I would love to show a profit on 20% of the racehorses I have owned. Owning a racehorse is a fools' game. Take a poll of how many trainers own racehorses.

re: It's About Much More Than Purses

MikeM — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 18:16:43 GMT

It's hard to watch a race at the track because for the most part they still have TV's that are 20 years old. That goes for Saratoga,Belmont and Monmouth. How about HD? They should have that in about 20 years.

re: It's About Much More Than Purses

Oldie — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 14:21:47 GMT

Shawn, you sound really burned out. What most of the people you are looking down on said was, betting wasn't the primary reason they followed horse racing, but in fact they do wind up betting. Maybe not thousands a day, but most don't have thousands a day to wager.

I'm afraid what you missed is that there are a lot (and I mean a LOT) of people who would go to the track, follow horses/jockeys/trainers/owners, and bet (the part you're after), if they could follow the stories, feel less like outsiders and more like courted fans. TVG is still on the air 10 years later for several reasons, and one of them is that people love to watch horses run and compete, and they get to hear at least a synopsis of the lives of many horses in a race when they watch on TVG, so they feel as if they know a little about what they're watching, they can pick one to squeeze for, and you know what happens next? You're smart, you know the answer.

Don't give up on those of us who just plain love horses and watching them run. We haven't given up on you.