The Good and the Bad of Monzante

re: The Good and the Bad of Monzante

Sandy McDonald — Sat, 10 Aug 2013 03:30:09 GMT

Wow, some excellent points have been made. Collecting funds along a horse's career is a great idea, ending the drug use is essential. Just these two things would be a good start toward the many problems racing faces today. All the contributors to the blog really said a lot and made important points. As most people said, "we have to do something now". We really do.

re: The Good and the Bad of Monzante

Line OTTB — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 16:39:54 GMT

I still do not see any good .... a graded I stakes winner is injured, the vets say he can be saved and he is killed anyway ... I see the bad and nothing else .. I see greed for money ... I do not see the realization that horses are NOT objects but feel pain like humans ... I am sick with cases like this ... disgrace to the so called human race !

re: The Good and the Bad of Monzante

ksweatman9 — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 13:28:21 GMT

Pedigree Ann, I don't have any first hand knowledge of how slaughter houses operate in Sweden and Japan. I could however write a book on the horrors of animal abuse in China. Does that count? Too bad we can't ask Ferdinand if the Japanese meat packers treated him kindly before they eviscerated him. To assume that there is such a thing as a pleasant humane slaughterhouse on some distant shore is absurd. If your comment was intended to be funny, it wasn't. Many of us take the subject of horse slaughter seriously.

re: The Good and the Bad of Monzante

RajahsMom — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 03:41:52 GMT

Angela, was given a quality of life and a chance to fight to live, moreso than he was scrounging around in the desert his owner left him in! He gained two years of love and companionship that he wouldn't have had dying in a desert starving and alone. Yes, quarantine/stabilize the horse at the track. If he was stable enough for the trainer to van him off to some vet, he was stable enough to stay at the track where there was a vet already there. If he was that in dire straits, the track vet would have euthanized him right on the track. It also would have allowed the track time enough to run the proper bloodtests to have found the illegal drugs that were (and I believe there were) in the horse's system. To run a horse to death and then try to hide it is evil, this horse should never had been raced, and you can support those lowlife trainers all you want, but the fact is he was wrong and the truth is in the pudding. This is not his first time at the rodeo, so to speak, but I hope it will be his last if any of the racetracks have the guts to ban him until he cleans up his act. Not just him but all trainers/owners that race these horses into the ground and then expect no one to notice. For those who do right by their horses have nothing to worry about but those who don't need to lose their licenses at any legitimate venue.

re: The Good and the Bad of Monzante

Kelly Haggerty — Sun, 04 Aug 2013 15:54:43 GMT

I think this situation has brought a lot of good information to light. The industry could benefit from an education program internally that helps participants understand the importance of public perception, and how those perceptions have shifted.

I grew up in a farming community and used to purchase horses from a slaughter sale where cattle, horses, and hogs were sold side by side. The horses were viewed as livestock, and no one cried for them any more than they cried for the hogs. That is no longer the prevailing mentality. This shift matters, as we cannot have a sport if we alienate the public.

I care a great deal about my racehorse. I check her weekly, I scrutinize her vet records, I chose a trainer with a "horses first" reputation and made my standards clear to her. I employ the "Starbucks/Whole Foods Test" where I don't allow anything to happen that I wouldn't want to explain in those forums. Still, I frequently question whether I can stay involved in the sport due to repercussions in my professional life caused by the increasingly negative public perception of racing. We need to understand this, and we need to get on it immediately.

re: The Good and the Bad of Monzante

AngelaInAbilene — Sun, 04 Aug 2013 14:38:53 GMT

DynaKing should have been put down from the get-go and every horseman knows it. The money that was wasted trying to "save him" could have actually done many other horses good.

To say that Monzante should have been quarantined by the stewards overnight until an investigation was done illustrates [in neon] the point that most of the people that comment on such tragedies have no idea that of which they speak. Why in God's name would you quarantine a horse for the night who suffered such an injury when the right thing to do is humanely euthanize?

re: The Good and the Bad of Monzante

ksweatman9 — Sun, 04 Aug 2013 14:02:07 GMT

RajahsMom, AMEN. You said it, I totally agree with you. I live in an area where vets will not euthanize your dog unless he or she is suffering from illness, is vicious, or extremely old and having health issues. If you can't keep your dog for any other reason, you better find it a home because you are responsible for your pet. Thoroughbred owners should assume that same level of responsibility. Slaughter is NOT in any way, shape or form, a humane death for horses. It's not an answer for anything. How unfortunate so many people just don't get that.

re: The Good and the Bad of Monzante

Pedigree Ann — Sun, 04 Aug 2013 13:25:55 GMT

Ksweatman-

What you are describing are North American slaughter facilities and methods, which I have already condemned. Do you have private knowledge of how things are conducted in Sweden and Japan, or are you making the 'arrogant' assumption that all countries conduct the process exactly the same way as we do in the U.S.?

re: The Good and the Bad of Monzante

By a long nose — Sat, 03 Aug 2013 04:09:01 GMT

Deltalady, let me clue you in on something honey: Steve Haskin is not 1/10th the reporter that Tom LaMarra is. Tom writes all the nitty-gritty, dirty industry articles that nobody else at Blood-Horse wants to and actually goes to important forums, meetings and hearings while Steve Haskin sits at his house and writes lovey dovey stories that women like you eat up and cry over. He's not a reporter, he's a story-teller.

You're clueless about what it takes to be a real reporter.

re: The Good and the Bad of Monzante

Thoroughbreds are the best — Fri, 02 Aug 2013 20:48:57 GMT

Paula,

Managing a household pet's infirmaties is not comparable to managing a horse with chronic or catastrophic ailments. Colic surgery is thousands of dollars. Fracture repair to make a horse "salvagable"as a pasture companion is unthinkable for the majority of owners. What yourselves are willing to do for uour animals is your choice. Having worked many years in the veterinary field, I try not to judge what others are willing or able to spend as long as the animal is treated with respect and kindness. And sometimes it is the hardest decision that is the best for all concerned.

re: The Good and the Bad of Monzante

ColetteMarie — Fri, 02 Aug 2013 17:39:16 GMT

Ceil Rock, I do realize there is a problem regarding individuals reselling adopted horses to slaughterhouses. But, I also believe that by having the cost of adopting these retiring racehorses so high, it prevents more horses from finding great homes. I wish I knew the answers, but I don't. I just feel that the retraining programs, as they are currently formatted, are not able to find homes for their retrained horses quickly enough to help all horses as they retire from the track. If a retrained horse is priced at an amount that has the horse living at the retraining facility for an extended period of time while waiting for someone who can afford the adoption fee, how many newly retiring horses are unable to get into the facility due to the restraints of space? It is so frustrating to me that many great homes are inaccessible to so many retiring racehorses. Without thinking too hard, I can think of several people I know who could & would give fantastic homes to a retiring racehorse. But the high adoption fee makes it very unlikely they would be able to afford to do so.

I can't tell you how often I watch Super Hero, as he interacts with his buddies in his pasture or while we are out trail riding, and think about how many horses out there deserve a retirement like he has. How many horse people, who have horses for trail riding or are interested in finding a horse to give a horse they already own a companion will pay several thousand dollars for a horse?

re: The Good and the Bad of Monzante

RajahsMom — Thu, 01 Aug 2013 14:45:01 GMT

Tom, the issue is not that social media rushed to judgment, because it was proven by the racing authorities, the media, and the trainer/owner that it wasn't soon enough for Monzante. Every year there are hundreds of Monzantes' that the racing media don't deem worthy to acknowledge. Yes, I know what I'm talking about because for the last two years of his life, I was one of the faithful sponsors of DynaKing aka Gifted. So for you to say that social media rushed to judgement is ridiculous, if we hadn't said or made a stink about it, do you really think that an so-called investigation would have be done (even as shoddy as it was)? Explain to me how you can have someone racing at your track with horses stabled there and not to be able to contact them? And if you have no way of being contacted, then maybe you shouldn't be training/racing horses. When are these people going to accept responsibility for falling this horse, including the security guards. Your telling me that the guard was not trained that if he sees something suspicious going on, not to report it or investigate it, or even collect evidence? Are you telling me that the stewards (who should have been at the track and should have seen the breakdown), didn't have the authority (even if only for insurance reasons) to quarantine the injured horse overnight until an investigation could be done or at least blood could be drawn? The social media it seems to me, is becoming much more knowledgeable in the welfare and well-being of racehorses than you or the industry gives it credit for thanks to Barbaro. The racing industry have gotten rich off of the horses, yet they don't want to take ethical and moral responsibility for the beautiful animals they have created. Explain to me why when a racehorse is given a JC registration code, a retirement fund cannot be established at the same time, and just like the vaccination records or checked for each race the horse is entered, why can't money/percentage of earnings be deposited into that account and it follows the horse wherever it goes, just like an insurance policy you take out for breeding/death. Everyone who owns a racehorse should be hold responsible and accountable for that horse, no matter if it's a major corporation or the little mom/pop claimer. If you cannot afford to take care of the horse if something should happen to it, then you shouldn't be in racing, period. I'm not saying accidents don't happen, but if the owners/trainers are made to answer to racing authorities and abide by a standardize set of guidelines across the board (ie, Hong Kong or Japan), you would see less and less of these shady/flybynight owner/trainers who are in it for the money. Right now I'm involved with trying to get another racehorse in a similar situation as Monzante off the track, he wants more for the horse to keep him from racing him than the claiming race he's planning to put him in. So to say that the social media was hasty in jumping to conclusions, I beg to differ. We've danced this dance one time too many, and 'that dog don't hunt'!

re: The Good and the Bad of Monzante

Paula Higgins — Thu, 01 Aug 2013 02:06:23 GMT

Let's be serious here. I think that the overpopulation of wild horses and then thoroughbreds who are bred by humans to race, are two totally separate issues here. When you own a thoroughbred you have an obligation to make the best decisions possible for him/her. There is no way I would put an animal down if I felt like there was any possibility of a positive outcome with treatment. There is no way to know that a horse is going to be in pain down the road after an injury until it happens. Some do well and some don't. Then you make the right decision. A rush to judgment otherwise seems more like a monetary decision than anything else. For example, my dog had congestive heart failure and was very symptomatic. The vet put him on Vetmedin and he had a great quality of life for 3.5 more years. My cat eventually developed dilated cardiomyopathy and there was nothing else that could either improve her quality of life or save her. So we did what we had to do. If some people in the racing business continue to view thoroughbreds as disposable or a commodity, we will continue to lose an already limited fan base.

re: The Good and the Bad of Monzante

chucky — Wed, 31 Jul 2013 22:43:25 GMT

the best breed:

Yes what you say is true. Horses do break down not just from racing. The issue is whether we have done or doing the best we can for these animals who have no say in the matter.

I remember when Eight Belles broke down and some of the articles written about her. "she was a time bomb about to happen because she comes from a frail line of speed and fragility" etc., etc., etc. but that did not stop us from breeding short career horses now did it?. Sure there is no guarantee in breeding but that is what breeding is all about...trying to breed the best you can...Now take Salix...have we done much to breed out bad bleeders?...how about the 1 or 2 furlongs that 2-year-old horses are put through on sales?...Are they supposed to be quarter horses?...the meaning of a thoroughbred imo has been lost...the world use to breed for their derbies...and classic distance races...well guess what? that is not the case today...maybe with the Germans and Japanese that holds true and maybe even the Irish...thoroughbred meant speed, stamina, sturdiness...industry have change, the horses being bred today have changed...all you have to do is go to the Spa...the great racing track where champions are beaten...sad to see but most of the races there are dirt SPRINT RACES...so besides kicking the can forever on ex-race horses and the drug issue what exactly have this industry done to help itself? and get rid of it's bad reputation?...

our last 4 horse of the year were 3 females and a miler...only one won at 10 furlongs!! once!! anybody notice that trend?...how about media articles comparing Black Caviar to Phar Lap or Makybe Diva, Frankel to Ribot and Mill Reef, Wise Dan to Forego and John Henry...you cannot be serious??

the best breed were bred decades ago...thats my 2 cents....

re: The Good and the Bad of Monzante

Blum Gone — Wed, 31 Jul 2013 16:42:33 GMT

Going Balistic: re: xchanger Here is his Equibase page. If you really care where he is, where he might be, contact some of the last connections listed:

www.equibase.com/.../Results.cfm

re: The Good and the Bad of Monzante

Thoroughbreds are the best — Wed, 31 Jul 2013 13:21:52 GMT

Pedigree Ann, you are a voice of reason on the poorly understood subject of horse slaughter, euthanasia, and rescue.

Retiring an injured horse to stand around in a pasture for 10-20 years is not only prohibitively expensive (they still need feed, farrier, vet care and attention) while they are still and always will be painful, is unfair and in some cases downright cruel. Was this horse "salvagable" and at what cost? Salvagable to limp around a field overgrown with weeds or bare of green? Sorry just being realistic.

I wish this horse had not slipped down so far in the claiming ranks but horses break down in their first race or graded stakes as well. They also break down on trail rides, in the hunt field or galloping across a field loose. Or develop arthritic conditions, founder or any number of issues that make them only "salvagable"and as a lawn ornament where they are easily neglected.

As Americans we need to be realistic and reasonable recognizing that we have a horse overpopulation issue that is not really caused exclusively by overbredding as the Animal Rights Agenda proposes. We need to realize that in many cases euthanasia or humane, respectful slaughter iss a far kinder solution.

re: The Good and the Bad of Monzante

Needler in Virginia — Wed, 31 Jul 2013 04:11:10 GMT

Thanks for your thanks, Tom, AND for your admission that racing has a long way to go....BOY! does it EVER! Maybe there's hope for you yet :)))

Cheers and safe trips to everyone.

re: The Good and the Bad of Monzante

ksweatman9 — Wed, 31 Jul 2013 00:26:14 GMT

Pedigree Ann, "Arrogance" is for a human being to assume they know how an animal feels. The instant an animal arrives at a slaughter house their instincts and keen senses tells them what lies ahead. The fear and panic begins at that point, therefore I would argue your opinion that death is "quick". As for "painless", the bolt gun is not always effective on horses. It requires a good deal of skill for proper placement. Renowned vets have confirmed this. Most slaughterhouse workers are neither skilled or care. Animal suffering is not at the top of their agenda. Horses that die in slaughter facilities meet a cruel fate. It's ugly regardless of how you want to candy coat it. Why do you suppose they fight so hard to keep cameras out of slaughter houses? Should tell you something, shouldn't it?

re: The Good and the Bad of Monzante

ceil rock — Tue, 30 Jul 2013 20:45:11 GMT

ColletteMarie - One of the reasons most rescues charge an adoption fee is not only to recoup a small part of their investment in the horse, but to put a floor under him. There have been numerous scandals over the years with people adopting free horses and then promptly reselling them, usually for slaughter. Many of the sales now do the same thing - put a minimum price of $1,000 on a horse. Even though the rescues have people sign a contract stipulating what can be done with a horse, once it leaves their hands it can be hard to track a horse.

re: The Good and the Bad of Monzante

JerseyTom — Tue, 30 Jul 2013 19:14:53 GMT

Thanks to those of you who approached this thoughtfully and sought to educate on some related issues such as aftercare and slaughter. Obviously a long way to go for the industry.

re: The Good and the Bad of Monzante

Pedigree Ann — Tue, 30 Jul 2013 14:19:28 GMT

SMarie -

The word 'slaughter' seems to mean something to you it doesn't to me. But then I come from the background of a mixed-use farm - grew our own corn and hay, then fed it to cattle, sheep, and hogs.

Slaughter can be quick and painless, such as is required for kosher ritual, or it can be inexpert, prolonged, and painful. The word itself does not imply one or the other. We do not know if Ferdinand or Exceller suffered; it is arrogant to assume they did without evidence. Once the animal is dead, it is a matter of local culture what happens to the dead body.

Did you know that in France during part of the 20th Century one HAD to take a horse to a butcher (or vice versa) for it to be euthanized? The local butcher had the technique to do with a knife what we do today with injected drugs. (At the same period, we in the US used a bullet to the brain.) The current method is tidier - no blood to clean up - but the horse is just as dead.

For the horse-slaughter question in this country, it is the treatment of animals BEFORE the moment of death that is inexcusable. And the lack of regulation that can allow animals without an established chain of ownership (i.e. stolen) into the stream.

re: The Good and the Bad of Monzante

AngelaInAbilene — Tue, 30 Jul 2013 14:04:34 GMT

ColetteMarie is right about the costs of adopting from a lot of rescues/ret-training facilities. Last year, I was looking for another ponyhorse. I contacted several rescues looking for a horse with the the right temperment and conformation. I was NOT looking for a finished horse, just a prospect. I could have went to the OBS and bought a horse in training cheaper! Needless to say, I'm still looking.

re: The Good and the Bad of Monzante

slee — Tue, 30 Jul 2013 13:04:04 GMT

I responded to the first blog & I knew Monzante had died at his barn, not on the track. My problem with this situation is not that he was hurt, per se, in a race, nor even that the decision was made even though he was "salvageable". I am also "guilty" of making that decision with horses, cats, and dogs. Sometimes the medical treatment can save the life but ruin its quality, and sometimes the procedure is technically possible but the risk is too high. Sometimes the vet says, yes, we can prolong this life and it will cost $10,000 and your cat will never be out of pain, never groom itself again, and it could only eat by a feeding tube.... It is difficult, but sometimes the right decision so to let go.

But my Monzante problem is that he was still racing at all. and please don't tell me he was still eager to race. Horses are animals of habit and I've had some that would come to be harnessed with their partner when they were still shaky from a colic attack! Monzante was running at the bottom rung of the sport when he once ran with the elite. Was that right or should efforts have been made to find him a better, safer home? Yes, I know this is a business, but these are living creatures, not bananas to be tossed when spoiled or paper shredded for mulch.

re: The Good and the Bad of Monzante

justsayin — Tue, 30 Jul 2013 04:25:38 GMT

Although as I have expressed in my previous post Monzante had no business ending up where he did and his connections should be ashamed. We should not downplay the importance of the $4,000, or $1,000 claimer for that matter. One of the great things about horse racing is you can get in at all different levels and $4,000 horses can run against other $4,000 horses and everyone involved can have a great and fun time. If all horses have to be grade 1 or 2 we wouldn't have many races and it would limit the people that could afford to be involved. But regardless of the level they compete they deserve to be treated with respect and taken care of. I truly believe the outrage with Monzante is the total disregard for an animal that is dependent on us to make decisions in their best interest

re: The Good and the Bad of Monzante

smarie — Mon, 29 Jul 2013 19:41:11 GMT

Pedigree Ann - Ferdinand and Exceller were not "put down." They were SLAUGHTERED! Huge difference.

And if horse slaughtering plants re-open in the U.S., the fault rests squarely on the shoulders of Barack Obama, who has the authority to stop this from happening.