Things That Make You Go Hmmmm (13)

re: Things That Make You Go Hmmmm (13)

JerseyTom — Tue, 24 Sep 2013 19:40:47 GMT

Michael: Heads up, that was a KD simulcast page at Scioto Downs in Ohio. Kentucky Downs does a regular live program.

re: Things That Make You Go Hmmmm (13)

Michael Cusortelli — Tue, 24 Sep 2013 18:57:13 GMT

Indiana Downs' racing operation is run by a guy, Jon Schuster, who likes horse racing. Jon knows what it's like to be a customer at a racetrack.

We have guessing -- and this is just a guess -- that the person who makes the decisions on what to include in the programs at KY Downs hasn't ever been a regular racetrack customer, or even understands what's wrong with including just one past race per horse in a program.

We have the same situation at our track here in Albuquerque. If there is a full field in a live race, the track program includes just one race per horse in the PPs.

re: Things That Make You Go Hmmmm (13)

Old Old Cat — Mon, 23 Sep 2013 22:06:24 GMT

A wonderful thought-provoking article. Return on Investment, Available Capital, Operational Costs, are all driving forces in this dynamic. These factors are driving the bettors, and the tracks, and the producers of the PPs. As an occasional $2 exacta/trifecta/WPS bettor I’m happy with the local program, although it is somewhat skimpy even for me. I would think the standard forms are OK with the casual occasional fan who has a very limited amount to spend, and wants a minimum amount of UNDERSTANDABLE information that he can digest without too much thinking, and can leave with some money once in a while.

A more packed local form available for additional charge (extra dollar or so) would be nice for those who are wagering in the $10 to $20 range. More serious than that, and simulcast betting, warrants spending the $7 to $10 for one of the DRFs.

Where the tracks could make money would be by printing (cheap mimeo) the simulcast tracks as separate forms (for a dollar or two for each track), catering to those individuals who (while lacking the computer resources to print their own tailored PPs) bet predominately one or two other tracks, but don’t spend the money to warrant getting the DRF (with useless tracks).

re: Things That Make You Go Hmmmm (13)

NEHF — Mon, 23 Sep 2013 03:12:42 GMT

You're right, I can't read a form to save my bank roll, I just can't squint that much for the tiny print that's poorly printed. You're right, the info is different at every track I've been to and I've been going to tracks since I was 11, that's 44 years and I still love going and I still love buying, raising, and racing these gorgeous animals. Still you're right, the information you, me, and the rest of the fans get is lousy hard to read and it ain't gonna get any better folks. No way they're going to allow us to know industry standards; it would incriminate those of the industry. No way they're going to give enough info to make an educated guess because the guess part is what they're counting on. Counting is what they're doing with the money made from poorly determined bets, and they are not going to give up money. I'm not implying I could make a better bet if I had better info but you might make a better bet with it. I would think most bets made today would be better determined with better information, and I just don't see the tracks giving us the upper hand. I've introduced many, many people to the sport and have always had a difficult time explaining the information available and what to do with it.

re: Things That Make You Go Hmmmm (13)

John from Baltimore — Fri, 20 Sep 2013 20:42:35 GMT

I just saw on this web site that the NYRA has called for added security and drug testing for the Jockey Gold Cup. Isn't this like saying horse racing has a drug problem but we don't care enough about the every day customer to have the same security for all races. Why would they care what is in the program if they don't care what is in the horse?

re: Things That Make You Go Hmmmm (13)

none none — Fri, 20 Sep 2013 20:23:06 GMT

Ironically, tracks don't own the data supplied by their own races, The Jockey Club does.

The Jockey Club owns ALL of the data and they have since their inception in 1894. Originally, the DRF was the official chart-keeper, however, Equibase took over in 1997.

Taken from Equibase website:

"In 1997 the TRA announced Equibase as the Official Database for Racing Information and Statistics, and in 1998, when the company reached an agreement with Daily Racing Form by which Equibase became the official data supplier to the venerable publication, Equibase became the sole collector of Thoroughbred past performances. This agreement to standardize racing’s statistics eliminated the duplication of effort and resulting confusion from the maintenance of two databases of racing information."

So, the powers that be COULD offer handicappers all sorts of information - but choose not to.

re: Things That Make You Go Hmmmm (13)

JerseyTom — Thu, 19 Sep 2013 21:24:23 GMT

Learned from Indiana Downs it has control over how PPs appear in its live program, but not its simulcast programs. The simulcast programs are the Daily Racing Program produced by DRF. That answers some questions, but not the question of how racetracks have no control over their own data. So clearly there's a lot more to this.

re: Things That Make You Go Hmmmm (13)

tpenn — Thu, 19 Sep 2013 14:52:58 GMT

Thanks for a truly wonderful and thoughtful article. So many tracks have no interest in having a well-informed or educated public; as long as the bets are coming in, those who control the track program PPs depend on a naive public to blindly bet according to selections of the press and social contacts. Too bad; handicapping is an exciting mental game of chance and calculated risk.

re: Things That Make You Go Hmmmm (13)

Atdwya — Thu, 19 Sep 2013 13:22:13 GMT

Amen! Thank you Jesus! Someone with the ability to get their attention has done it. This story is right on the money. Those idiots don't have a clue. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

re: Things That Make You Go Hmmmm (13)

Pik4Joel — Thu, 19 Sep 2013 05:22:29 GMT

This article is long overdue. I have played and watched for over 25 years and have seen the evolution/transformation of online resources with regard to PP formats. I can honestly say that I have never purchased any PP format, or any other product, online. I don't want to buy "The Sheets" because it takes away from 30 bucks of bankroll that I would, and do, use for vertical wagers. While staying with my old-school approach I have witnessed and experienced hugely depreciated prices on vertical wagers with hidden angles where longshots finish 1st, followed by 2nd choices and that 7 to 1 that figured in third. Used to pay 350 for a dollar, now it may be 101.70 or far lower. In terms of value, and with a discussion of pool sizes aside, I know there is info that I don't want to pay for that others are using, or have programmed into their nifty XP 5000 thinking machine, that give them an advantage. That being said, I say "fine", let them spend 90 percent to win 5 percent - and they can afford to spend that much before they win that 5 percent. That is no fun to me - the challenge of gathering the available and affordable products and selecting winners based on what I think I know is the end reward. But for tracks to opt for the cheap and, either knowingly or not, withold the best product available to scrimp on pages or print size is unacceptable. That, combined with the increase in non-human pool robbery, is making me rethink playing at all. Hell, I can go to Vegas and profit on the craps table with 60 bucks - but it ain't so satisfying as that is chance, not smarts and research. This game is shooting itself in the foot... Thank you author.