Whatever Happened to the Breeders' Cup?

re: Whatever Happened to the Breeders' Cup?

Ghostzapper — Wed, 23 Sep 2009 16:54:32 GMT

California Liberals do it again. Mandating these surfaces before any proof that they improve anything. Sounds like every other political decision made by Liberals. (If it sounds (feels) good, do it!) I'm still scratching my head why the BC have made such foolish decisions regarding adding races and two years in a row on "plastic".

re: Whatever Happened to the Breeders' Cup?

M1Slew — Tue, 22 Sep 2009 04:23:40 GMT

I think you're all a bunch of bone heads. This is about racing horses, lets race!

re: Whatever Happened to the Breeders' Cup?

Jeff Buck — Thu, 17 Sep 2009 19:08:56 GMT

Racing needs to go back to all natural tracks,dirt and grass.Handicapping was tough enough without having a third type of surface to deal with!I don't bet any track that's synthetic,so there's quite a few I do not wager on any more,including the Breeder's Cup last year and this year.I wonder how many bettors horseracing has lost because of synthetics?If I'm going to bet on an unknown,I'll go to the casinos.

re: Whatever Happened to the Breeders' Cup?

Hawkeye — Mon, 14 Sep 2009 03:44:04 GMT

As I have said before, the Breeder's Cup is not the end all of Horse Racing, just as the Triple Crown Races aren't either. It is the competition the horse runs against that dictates the quality of runner. Anyway I don't like non-biodegradable surfaces. (Those that Mr. Jackson calls plastic.)

re: Whatever Happened to the Breeders' Cup?

dr.fager — Sat, 12 Sep 2009 13:43:09 GMT

This goes to show a horse dont need the bc to get hoty, racing has been around before the bc and it will be here after. the bc has become the similar to what destroyed boxing, too many titles not enough champions.at one time in boxing there was the heavyweight division, which is comparative to the classic.at one time there was the middleweight division which reps the sprinters.we need to go back to having the sprint,the juvenile and the classic be the highlight once again,all these new divisions just water down and make the process so much more confusing, and less interesting. the turf, the turf mile, dirt mile, ladies classic ladies juvenile, what next a juvenile sprint get back to what made the bc a show to remember instead ofsome watered down spectacle..

re: Whatever Happened to the Breeders' Cup?

Draynay — Tue, 08 Sep 2009 18:30:59 GMT

Someone needs to ask the question why do we have synthetic tracks ? Horses still get hurt and die on the track so what is the point? Get rid of the stuff it is an experiment gone bad.

re: Whatever Happened to the Breeders' Cup?

David R. — Mon, 07 Sep 2009 17:25:19 GMT

The Breeders' Cup organization needs a commitment one year in advance in order to begin plans for the big day. None of the major tracks were able to give them that in a timely manner. Santa Anita was the only track not having issues at the time a decision needed to be made; that's why the BC is being held at the same place two years in a row.

re: Whatever Happened to the Breeders' Cup?

Turnbackthe alarm — Thu, 03 Sep 2009 16:24:33 GMT

"The Breeders Cup is a victim of the people who run it and don't know how to market it."-Emilio P

I couldn't have said it better. Wabstat also has valid complaints about the insufficient pps of the European horses that make it very difficult for the average horseplayer to place an informed bet.

Unfortunately, the uninspired and myopic leaders of the BC have taken a once exciting event and turned it into a shell of its former self. I went every year from 1992 to 2007.....and between the ticketing snafus, the watered down racing and the synthetic track for two years in a row, my friends, family and I have all taken a pass until the venue changes and the other problems get addressed.

re: Whatever Happened to the Breeders' Cup?

da3hoss — Thu, 03 Sep 2009 12:09:30 GMT

babbler68, spot on!

re: Whatever Happened to the Breeders' Cup?

MonicaV — Wed, 02 Sep 2009 18:09:35 GMT

The Breeders' Cup used to be a wonderful day of racing. Only the very best horses came and I have been to several, including the very first one. I've always loved the BC until last year. The change to two days was ridiculous. You lose attendance and television ratings on Friday and calling the distaff the "Ladies Classic" is ludicrous.

In the last couple of years the synthetics have been a hot topic, especially in the BC. Mr. Jackson didn't want to race Curlin on synthetics but he gave in because the BC needed a big name to draw attention and people to it. He did what was best for the sport by giving in. Whether you think Curlin would have lost anyway is a moot point. Makes no difference now. Jackson has never liked synthetics and he sticks to that. I do not think that HOY should be decided because of a BC race. I've never thought so. You wipe out a whole year's accomplishments for one race???? How is that right? I am so glad that I'm not a high profile owner to be bashed, insulted and demeaned by people who don't know anything about me. Jackson owns Rachel and has brought this filly out to compete where she never would have competed before with her former owners. She has passed those tests and thrilled us all, except for the ones who won't give her any credit for being the fabulous animal she is. rhoward has nothing but nasty things to say about her. Why? Why this hate for this horse? I don't understand that but you are certainly entitled to your opinion but you cannot argue the fact that she has won every race this year and at several different tracks. She has stepped up to every challenge but she shouldn't be considered for HOY because she won't run against Zenyatta at the BC? Jackson just stated today that if Zenyatta goes to the Beldame, Rachel will too. Zenyatta won't. That is entirely the Moss's decision unless they change their minds. I honestly don't think either is ducking the other, not at all. The owners put up the money, we don't. End of story. It's about the horse. Zenyatta is a tremendous animal in her own right and I honestly believe if she was put against the boys, she would win but they choose not to do that. Zenyatta has raced 3 times, Rachel 7 and Zen may race 5 times by the end of the year and Rachel 8 or 9. To see them face each other would be great to see but unnecessary and certainly shouldn't have anything to do with HOY. I think the BC needs to go back to the old schedule and not be run on synthetics. Zito won't run on it and many others won't either. It's not natural for horses to run on it and in CA's heat, the surface gets up to well over 100 degrees and the horses are running on that! No, it's just not best for the horses or for horse racing.

re: Whatever Happened to the Breeders' Cup?

Pam S. — Wed, 02 Sep 2009 16:19:55 GMT

It certainly is a sad but true fact that you can't please everyone. People complained about top horses ducking each other, championship voting being too subjective, not enough interest in racing except during Triple Crown season, etc. ... So they came up with the Breeders' Cup to address these issues. Have mistakes been made in steering the event? Sure. But to call it "a very market hyped single day" shows a great deal of negativity IMO. Remember that other racing fans consider the year-end championships to be a great day and they look forward to them regardless of where they are being held. I am dismayed by all the Jackson-style whining going on.

Mr. Jackson is not just any horse owner. He has set himself up as practically a spokesperson and reformer for the sport. And he does not own just any horse; Rachel is the most popular horse in America with the potential to capture the interest of many non-fans. To the growing chorus of synthetic doomsayers, I point out once again that she and any horse are at risk every time they race. If any horse should be preparing for an historic run in the BC Classic, I think it's Rachel.

I am saddened by the great number of fatalities at Del Mar as well. I don't know what to make of it. But the Cup is being held at Santa Anita. And I agree with the previous poster who said that if Curlin had won the Classic last year, we would all be talking about something else.

re: Whatever Happened to the Breeders' Cup?

Tiznowbaby — Wed, 02 Sep 2009 13:24:46 GMT

Steve,

Jess Jackson courts criticism when he so openly seeks publicity. He holds regular press conferences and make grand pronouncements. If he's going to enjoy the limelight, then he also has to endure the harshness a spotlight sometimes throws.

re: Whatever Happened to the Breeders' Cup?

Racingfan — Wed, 02 Sep 2009 12:56:57 GMT

Tiznowbaby - my error - I stated it backwards - it is switching FROM dirt TO synthetic that I meant to say! But it is true that both can be bad if not properly maintained and an unsound horse is at risk no matter what - but also should not be racing.

re: Whatever Happened to the Breeders' Cup?

Bellwether — Wed, 02 Sep 2009 06:23:09 GMT

PLEASE...ACTION JACKSON...NOE GOE ON THE PLASTIC...GOOD FORE TRAINING...CRAP TO RACE ON...ASK A LIME E???...LONG LIVE THE DIRT!!!...

re: Whatever Happened to the Breeders' Cup?

babbler68 — Wed, 02 Sep 2009 05:13:23 GMT

I agree totally with Bill Daly when he says it takes away from the sport and diminishes the importance of other races. Champions used to be crowned over their compiled record throughout the year not just one very market hyped single day. Its sad to see such races as the Jockey Club Gold Cup, The Travers,and The Woodward as prep races now as opposed to what they were for so many decades and so many champions. You need to also include the loss of such races as the Marlboro and the Washington D.C. International to the unjustified hype that has become the Breeders Cup. Would we see the greats of yesteryear like, Count Fleet ,Kelso, Forego ,Secretariat, Slew or The Bid with the same sense of awe that we now have if they werent able to pull off a B.C. win? it seems we've lost sight of real accomplishments and become blinded by what happens over the course of one day.

re: Whatever Happened to the Breeders' Cup?

mole — Wed, 02 Sep 2009 01:49:13 GMT

My God, These blogs are so boring! all every one does is fight about Zen and RA. Aren't there other horse racing news that can be discussed on here, this has gotten so lame and boring. People get a life. talk about some of the other news in the world of horseracing. I occasionally read these blogs and darn, it's the same people argueing the same Hoo-pla. Leave RA and Zen alone. Let their connections do what they want! I love them both, talk about the birds for a change and why Calvin is back on Mine that bird. It's a shame he doesn't have a secure jockey.

re: Whatever Happened to the Breeders' Cup?

Hildegard — Wed, 02 Sep 2009 00:46:41 GMT

I liken the Horse of the Year award to the college football BCS title. Sure, there are stats which will help the winner to be determined. But at the end of the season it is a subjective value-judgement that determines the honor.

In BCS football, as long as there is not a playoff, the "champion" will always be debated.

In horseracing, as long as the best don't race each other, the "champion" will always be debated.

It seems the Breeders' Cup was devised as a method to bring the best together. Too bad so many extraneous factors get in the way of that.

As an aside... My husband (not a racing fan) once told me that the reason he and other non-racing fans are not interested in racing is because the top horses never meet.

Of course, I tell him that the reason myself and other non-college football fans are not interested is because there's not a playoff.

re: Whatever Happened to the Breeders' Cup?

da3hoss — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 22:23:33 GMT

What did we EVER do before BC???

I THINK we evaluated a horse on their entire season, not just one race... there were many, many champions, great champions, before the BC was ever thought of as an end of the year marketing tool.

The BC may cap a great season but it can't make a great season just by one race.

Racingfan, you are right, they just released a report right here on BH that demonstrates that through statistical and anecdotal evidence.

Entire racing season "Where Champions run many great races".

re: Whatever Happened to the Breeders' Cup?

Draynay — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 21:26:29 GMT

This is not a valid argument. Rachel is taking on and beating G1 winning males and running times of 146 with ease. Zenyatta can't break 148 this year and had to struggle to catch an allowance winner. Rachel is setting history without running on the plastic which 5 years from now will be nothing more than a distant memory.

re: Whatever Happened to the Breeders' Cup?

JCRobinson — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 21:14:10 GMT

1- Synthetic IS NOT DIRT, and I don't understand anyone who insists it is. Yes, dirt surfaces differ from each other, as do turf courses, but synth has been sold as being "safe dirt" when it plays more like turf. (IMHO, by the way, I think the FIRST TIME LASIX by RP and Henry has just as much to do with their success last year as the synth. I'd just like to know when they had shown themselves to be bleeders to allow it!) I personally would have like to have seen the the Graded Stakes Committee provisionally re-grade the first runnings of all the graded stakes at tracks that changed surfaces to synth (because it is NOT dirt), just as off-turfers are judged after the running to determine their grading. NO, this is not a slam at Cal.- after all wasn't historic Keeneland the first to change? I think many of the original gradings still would have stood.

2- After all the talk (OK complaining) about the BC at OSA 2 years in a row, I decided to refresh my memory. This is actually the SECOND time that Cal. has had back-to-back BC- the first was '86/SA & '87/Hollywood. It was also the 3rd time in 4 years that the BC was in Cal. If memory serves, that fact, as well as the incredibly late date in '87, was the reason many East Coasters skipped '87. Only once has the BC been on the East Coast in back-to-back years- '89/Gulf & '90/Bel. Also, despite the greater variety of options on the East Coast for host sites (there have been 4, vs 2 in Cal.) the East Coast has actually hosted only 1 more BC than Cal., including this year. Neutral Churchill, with 6 BC's, leads the way. I mentioned somewhere, sometime ago that the ideal rotation would be a 3 year set up of SA/mid country/East Coast. Right now, with the back-to-backs at SA, we seem to have the same mind set as the very early years of the BC- get all the Hollywood stars there and who cares about the rest of the country.

re: Whatever Happened to the Breeders' Cup?

MH — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 19:49:08 GMT

I think billionaire Jess Jackson needs to stop whining about nice purses and pressuring tracks into raising them.

There is no surface more dangerous than sloppy dirt, yet Jackson thinks it's just fine to run Rachel, Curlin, and all his other horses over that crap. The synthetic mandate was a huge mistake, but at least horses won't ship into find a VERY unfair sloppy soup they have to run over. The Mosses put up and run their horses in the Breeders' Cup World Championships no matter the location or track condition.

re: Whatever Happened to the Breeders' Cup?

Tim G — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 19:22:10 GMT

I sort of believe in 5-10 years we won't be having this discussion about synthetics. With the number of fatalities at Del Mar this year, the number at Santa Anita right after the BC, the cost of something supposedly safer, the difficulty convincing horsemen that it's better "Even Shirreffs admits he doesn't like the synthetic surfaces of California tracks.

"I hate it," Shirreffs said. "It's THE WORST THING that happened to horse racing."

The trainer is concerned about the heat it generates. "It's like if you're standing barefoot on asphalt," he said. "There are a lot of foot problems on them."

At the time of that article in the NY Daily news, there had been eight horse fatalities at DM. At Saratoga, there had been one, in a turf race. There are a LOT more hind leg injuries and fatalities from those than on dirt.

Add to that, the fact most handicappers (the lifeblood of racing) hate it and there you go.

How many horses connections have refused to come to the BC when held at Belmont or Churchill or even SA when it was on dirt?

The economy is part of the issue, even for a lot of the very wealthy a certain amount of caution is involved in not rubbing peoples faces in the situation now.

I feel next year we won't have any no shows for track reasons. The Euros can run on the turf.

Cal racing is facing extinction and the introduction of synthetics just hurried it along. The economy there is in a mess, more so than in many racing venues. Add holding it on a controversial surface two years in a row and pffffft.

re: Whatever Happened to the Breeders' Cup?

Carlos in Cali — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 18:12:25 GMT

I've wondered if JJackson wouldn't have gotten his ego-laden hands on RA,would her season culminate with an appearance @ the BC Championships?..He's still sour from Curlin's loss last year which is pathetic & childish.

There were many "dirt" horses that performed well last year,including Cocoa Beach & Music Note who ran exceptional vs. Zenyatta.Who,BTW..would've shown up anywhere regardless of surface for the BC,which is the right and noble thing to do.I'm sure we the public as a whole,want to see the Best vs. the Best in the ultimate Showdowns.

re: Whatever Happened to the Breeders' Cup?

Steve — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 17:08:28 GMT

I have a solution - all those who want to see Rachel run in the Breeder's Cup should pool their money and buy her from Jackson. That includes the author of this blog.

After you've purchased her, hired a trainer and done everything else needed to race her, please report back here and tell us how you like it when other people try to tell you what to do with your horse.

And tell us how you like it when long after you've announced your decision about a particular race, the writers and bloggers who disagree with you are still trying to browbeat and insult you into doing what they want.

And also tell us how you like it when total strangers start acting like your life is their business, merely because you own a horse they like.

Tell us how it feels for these strangers to sit in judgment of whether or not you're greedy, whether or not you're arrogant and egotistical, whether or not you really "care" about your horse, and so on.

Then after you've experienced all that for a few years, please tell us if you'd even consider buying and racing a horse again.

re: Whatever Happened to the Breeders' Cup?

Tiznowbaby — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 15:27:43 GMT

Hmmm. And to clarify more, I think you exchange one set of problems for another when you're talking dirt or synth. Both can be dangerous. Both can be safe. Ultimately depends on the soundness of the horse and sometimes luck.