Does Freedom of Speech Pertain to Horsemen?

re: Does Freedom of Speech Pertain to Horsemen?

big george t /md — Sat, 04 Dec 2010 21:46:12 GMT

Whenever anyone is seemingly wronged and speech or opinion is involved, we tend to cite the First Amendment. I think this situation would more properly fall under the heading of "restraint of trade" where a person is deprived of a livelyhood in a given area for invalid or arbitrary reasons. Obviously tracks and racing commissions need to uphold the integrity of the sport and can exclude individuals when they have broken the rules, but the rules must be clearly defined and evenly enforced. Not having read the material, or seen excerpts, I have no basis to form any intelligent opinion of who is right or wrong.

re: Does Freedom of Speech Pertain to Horsemen?

Slew — Mon, 12 Apr 2010 13:07:38 GMT

Wallstreet...how about standing up for yourself?

re: Does Freedom of Speech Pertain to Horsemen?

Bellwether — Thu, 01 Apr 2010 03:54:58 GMT

JOHN & PATRICK HENRY...NOW THATS A HELL OF A COMBO!!!...

re: Does Freedom of Speech Pertain to Horsemen?

wallstreet — Sun, 28 Mar 2010 01:55:25 GMT

i can see how they exclude people for what ever reason. we as horsemen have never had any kind of representation. from day one the people that are suppost to stand up and fight for us have all been for managment. if theres no one to stand up for us how are we ever going to stop this kind of blattent disregard of are first amendment. i dont have the answer but i think i have stated the the problem....

re: Does Freedom of Speech Pertain to Horsemen?

Racing Fan — Sat, 27 Mar 2010 18:58:31 GMT

Racetracks and horsemen share a symbiotic relationship. In the case of some tracks like Charles Town, there would be NO slot machines if it were not legislated and supported by horsemen. Horsemen, in turn reap the rewards with the increase in purses that the slots bring. However, corporations like PNGI have forgotten this spirit of cooperation and have decided to treat horsemen like employees. They tell you if you don't like it, go somewhere else.

Except this isn't like working for McDonalds--many horsemen, myself included, have spent a lifetime here, raising horses, buying a farm and investing not only in the horse racing business but the local community. IF you say or do the wrong thing, they have the power to take away your livelihood. Sure, you can go to court, but how do you support yourself for the 5 years (or longer) it takes to wind its way through the court system? And who pays those legal fees? If your license is in good standing with the state, what gives PNGI the right to deny you the opportunity to earn a living because they don't like what you have to say?

re: Does Freedom of Speech Pertain to Horsemen?

Paula Higgins — Fri, 26 Mar 2010 04:00:06 GMT

Chris, you are pretty much right in what you have stated. But let me say this, while the legal right to exclude people from their tracks exists, they risk blogs like this when they do so. It is irrelevant as to who is right and who is wrong. The resulting bad press isn't worth it. If there is an issue, both parties should try to resolve it amicably. It makes everyone look petty when dirty laundry is aired in the media and it tarnishes the industry in general. It is to everyone's benefit to try and reach an agreement. If you have someone who is constantly trying to undermine you in columns, it is still better to build bridges rather than burn them. If he won't relent and has an agenda, he may not be interested in finding a mutual resoluton. Then I would just ignore him. Eventually, he will lose his audience.

There is always freedom of speech in America but there are consequences for anything you say. Just because you can say something doesn't mean people have to like it or allow you to say it on their property. They have every right to ask you to leave if they feel you are undermining them or sabotaging them in print, or verbally. But again, see the above paragraph for my prefered method of dealing with problems with individuals.

I think when money is involved as in Janene's case, it adds another dimension and often makes resolution difficult. Sad but true.

re: Does Freedom of Speech Pertain to Horsemen?

Slew — Wed, 24 Mar 2010 12:43:56 GMT

Wista: Of all that I have read of Michael Gill, Bloodhorse was the only publication that placed him in a postive light. I don't know him. The information is conflicting, and some comments from people who have day-to-day dealings with him, or purchased his horses, are extremely negative. I cannot concieve where the truth lies but "where's there's smoke, there's fire" from jockeys boycotting his horses to questionable practices to evade a drug screen. Are myectomies more common in his barn than elsewhere? As long as racing commissions do not feel compelled to disclose the reasons for their findings, how can we believe anyone?

re: Does Freedom of Speech Pertain to Horsemen?

Wista — Tue, 23 Mar 2010 14:20:09 GMT

Whoa!!!!!!!!!! You actually defend Michael Gill!!!!!!!!

How many of Gill's past and present trainers have been suspended for drug violations?

Let's get the ACLU involved here and come down on the side of a bunch of cheats. Keep up the good work so that all of the perps can be assured of the freedom of speech, freedom of choice, freedom to cheat and only get their wrist slapped.

Do you think all of this has anything to do with the sorry state of racing?

This sport needs tougher penalties, tough-minded administrators and officials, and a "CZAR" who can level the playing field for all.

re: Does Freedom of Speech Pertain to Horsemen?

Bellwether — Tue, 23 Mar 2010 05:54:01 GMT

PEOPLE IN CHARGE HATE THOSE THAT SPEAK THEIR MINDS...TO BAD...

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Slew — Mon, 22 Mar 2010 23:19:39 GMT

Janene...you seem to have been through enough trials, and you spoke out, and it cost you dearly. But I thank you for speaking up. Consider national organizations such as the ASPCA, the Dept of Agriculture, OSHA, and even the NLRB. You might find more avenues opening up for you. I wish you well.

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Ed — Sun, 21 Mar 2010 21:24:35 GMT

exploring and pushing over the edge. According to news networks, that's journalism.

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Janene — Sun, 21 Mar 2010 15:15:21 GMT

Congratulations to the Isle of Capri for having reinstated Terry Cullipher.

What a batch of good comments……Now, try walking in my shoes? I am the ‘Lady’ that Mr. Cullipher mentioned in his blog www.kyharnessracing.com/freedom31210.html and I quote “A few years ago in West Virginia a lady horseman and her husband, were excluded from the property of racetrack and casino for “NO REASON.” But she was part of an active group that opposed games at Charles Town” (Note: hH left out the property which was the Charles Town Races & Slots owned and operated by Penn National Gaming.) I did not oppose table games; I just opposed the way the bill was written. I was not a part of a group. I was one person with nothing more to lose, fighting for the CT horsemen who are afraid to fight for themselves any more.

I have been an owner, trainer and breeder of thoroughbred horses for over 40 years of which 25 years at Charles Town with NO WVRC adverse rulings against me. I am an active permit holder and I was given a letter that said I was being excluded from the grounds, going on almost 5 years ago, (an eternity when you are not allowed to earn a living). The reason given was for “No Reason.” They have put me out of business; I was forced to sell my farm that I had paid for, just to buy feed and hay. I can’t give my 16 horses away, because people can’t get stalls and are afraid to run our horses because the track might not like it.

Racing Fan says it all…..Charles Town is one of the worst. Horsemen live in constant fear if they say or do anything that makes the business look bad, you can kiss your stalls goodbye. That includes safety issues. Everyone is afraid to 'rock the boat' even if it could save equine or human lives.

I personally worked with the track on many issues, from buying and installing blinds in the steward’s office, to weed eating around all the barns, bought and hung a finish line sign with the racetrack logo on one corner and the CTHBPA on the other corner. I even rented and drove a 6 passenger people mover picking up customers from their cars and delivering them to the front door of the track I had sponsor signs hung on the track walls for live TV. I could go on and on. But the bottom line is that my husband and I represented the horsemen for a dozen years until 2003. We traveled the country putting Charles Town on the map and were given a resolution recognizing our accomplishments, by the National HBPA. We were made Honorary members of the CTHBPA in 2008. My Honorary membership was rescinded in Dec 2009 at the first meeting of the CTHBPA by 6 members of the newly elected board with 4 of them being brand new and 4 of them having campaigned for the racetrack on table games.

The person that was seen in TV ads made the motion. She followed me around for two months trying to harass and denigrate my credibility while I was on the dias with CTRS management on Table Games. I was not affiliated with any group; I was just one person who was fighting to get an inequity changed so the Charles Town horsemen could keep the money that they earned from table games.

I accomplished this with the passage of the bill quoted in Tom LaMarra’s Blood Horse article WV '10-10-10 Program' Hinges on Governor www.bloodhorse.com/.../wv-10-10-10-program-hinges-on-governor

Yes, I won but I lost my honorary membership for speaking out. By the way, I can race at PNGI’s Penn National a hundred miles up the road or at Mountaineer a couple hundred miles down the road. I just can’t race at my hometown Charles Town. I will continue to fight for the Charles Town horsemen any way I can to try to bring back the cooperation of track management and horsemen’s 2003 reputation of the “Best Little Horse House in the Country.”

re: Does Freedom of Speech Pertain to Horsemen?

Steve — Fri, 19 Mar 2010 17:52:36 GMT

Mr. Cullipher has zero legal standing for a 1st Amendment violation. As others stated, only the government can violate your 1st Amendment rights.

Holding a liquor license, being government regulated (most industries are government regulated), getting tax advantages and getting government subsidies does not make you a government entity. By legal definition, government entities are bodies that can impose taxes and make laws. Racetracks do not make laws and do not have the authority to impose taxes.

If anybody here tried to bring suit against a race track for a 1st Amendment violation your case would be dismissed at the first hearing, unless the racetrack's lawyer was grossly incompetent to the extremes.

re: Does Freedom of Speech Pertain to Horsemen?

Slew — Fri, 19 Mar 2010 14:32:37 GMT

Gary, I'm sorry, but it does work that way. Sort of "been there, done that." As long as you're willing to risk it, the system does work, even in private corporations. So if you're too timid to speak out against injustice, you then become part of that injustice. From Edmund Burke we heard, "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is that good men do nothing." I've been around a very long time, and it's too true. I've been a "squeaky wheel" for most of my life. But I have also studied all of my options before I speak. I've also made it a point to back up what I say with proof. I've never been fired from a job because I complained. If no resolution is in sight over a complaint, you take it higher up. There are so many state and federal agencies out there actually willing to help...all you have to do is find them, and contact them. I don't know the specifics of Mr. Cullipher's situation, so it is not really my place to comment on his resources, but it's fair to assume that he does have options, and he should vigorously pursue them.

re: Does Freedom of Speech Pertain to Horsemen?

Chris — Fri, 19 Mar 2010 05:30:18 GMT

Slew, the point is this horsemen's freedom of speech was not violated. Maybe I missed the part where he was jailed by the government, his site is taken down, etc. The fact that he's out and about complaining to anyone who will listen about a violation of his right of freedom of speech (as poorly as he understands it) is a clear indication that his freedom of speech is well in tact.

And if he has proof of wrongdoing by Florida's racing hierarchy why hasn't he taken it to law enforcement? Having a blog and critiques does not make one a whistleblower.

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Bobby — Fri, 19 Mar 2010 02:40:19 GMT

I think Mr Culipher is leaving part out in his story as I was told via telephone conversation with highers in Florida. He has a tendency to explore and push things over the edge until he does it to the wrong person like he has done here and in the past.

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gary — Fri, 19 Mar 2010 01:22:45 GMT

Slew,

When somebody holds the power over somebody else, like a job, a business, your house, your kids, and so on and so on. They overhear them say something they don't like and they take away those things because of what they said, well you call Patrick Henry and tell him to bring the Constitution because there is nothing they can do about it. That stuff happens all the time.

I agree with what you said and that is the way it is supposed to work, but there are no guarantees in life Bud

re: Does Freedom of Speech Pertain to Horsemen?

Chris — Thu, 18 Mar 2010 17:59:38 GMT

Oy vey! I guess I should tell my father the software company he founded a couple of years ago is not a privately held company owned by him but the state of South Carolina because a small portion of his capital was from a small business loan from one of the economic programs the state offers. I'm sure his 50-60 employees will be thrilled to know they are government workers and thus are qualified for all the benefits government workers receive.

Receiving a government grant or subsidy or tax break or whatever doesn't mean your company is suddenly no longer privately held. Grants/subsidies/tax breaks have been specifically designed to encourage economic development for businesses especially for entrepreneurs like my father who start small business. Federal, state and local governments offer a wide range of financing programs to help businesses and grow their operations because the economic growth of the country is a good thing. These programs include low-interest loans, venture capital, and scientific and economic development grants.

The fact is when you think about what it means to run a business on a daily basis the government does not want nor does it intend to run/take over every business it gave a grant/subsidy/tax break to.

You have to be pretty large and screwed up something powerful a la AIG and others before the government takes over.

re: Does Freedom of Speech Pertain to Horsemen?

Ann in Lexington — Thu, 18 Mar 2010 15:56:29 GMT

Remember a couple of years ago when Tampa barred a dozen or so riders (jocks and exercise variety) because they were being investigated for being 'involved' with questionable races in Michigan? Well, only one or two ended up being charged but the innocent riders are still dealing with the fallout from being barred by Tampa. They were tarred with the race-fixer label, despite no charges ever being filed against them or any evidence acvanced. That kind of power can destroy people's careers and should be wielded most judiciously, not from personal pique.

re: Does Freedom of Speech Pertain to Horsemen?

Slew — Thu, 18 Mar 2010 15:50:23 GMT

Chris, I believe Edward's assessment is correct. Additionally, freedom of the Press in involved, and a web site is a publication and is protected under the first amendment with exclusions for any malicious intent. Beyond that there is "whistleblower" protection.

"For example, in the United States, most whistleblower protection laws provide for limited "make whole" remedies or damages for employment losses if whistleblower retaliation is proven." It would appear that Mr Cullipher has two strong legs to stand on within the law.

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Leon — Thu, 18 Mar 2010 14:49:17 GMT

I think Chris makes a great point.

The government gets a share of the take, and they regulate the industry, but general access to the tracks is solely controlled by their operators.

There are ways to to provide ideas for the betterment of the industry through constructive criticism, without the cynicism and personal attacks many bloggers use in their articles.

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ceecee — Thu, 18 Mar 2010 12:54:05 GMT

I for one am sick of rac tracks pulling out the private property card. A certain track treated local horsemen great while they needed them to vote for slots. Now that they have them, management has made difficult for most locals to make a living due to their loss of stalls. And,by no means should you buck the system, so to speak. As far as integrity, start with the rules of racing. Who really enforces these rules? Management or the racing commission?

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Rachel — Thu, 18 Mar 2010 11:56:03 GMT

Edward: ditto

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Gina Powell — Thu, 18 Mar 2010 11:49:22 GMT

Since the racetracks have some form of government subsidy then that qualifies for a "government-operated business," and therefore they are subject to the laws of the land. Furthermore, one would have to ask "why" many people are speaking out about the stable area and how trainers get banned, intimidated, or intentionally blocked because they are outspoken. "What are they trying to hide?" Futhermore, they take money from the general public for wagering and must be held accountable to even a minimum standard. However, the rules seem to apply to some trainers and not to others. For example, I was told that I could only have 1 two-year-old per every 4 horses I stabled. Yet, big name trainers ship in 30, 40 and more two-year-olds every year and then everybody calls them a genius because they make it to the Triple Crown trail. Well if I had the same shot at it, I would be a big name trainer too. There is far too much discrimination going on in this industr,y and one day it is going to kick them in the butt.

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ned wilson — Thu, 18 Mar 2010 05:39:06 GMT

Edward is correct in his statement. Pompano Park can ban any person they want as a private company. But since they have been granted a monopoly by the state of Florida, it violates federal anti- trust law. If Mr. Cullipher would be allowed to build a casino and racetrack next door to Pompano, they could retain that private property right. Instead they act as a harness monopoly in Broward county, protected by the state. They therefore forfeit the right to pick and chose which residents of Florida can earn a living at their dictators' discretion.