What Did We Learn From Big Brown's Haskell?

re: What Did We Learn From Big Brown's Haskell?

secretariat — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 02:39:26 GMT

Enough of excuses why BB did this or that. He should just be doing THAT! Until he is a sure winner people shouldn't be making up reasons why he isn't living up to all the rumours why he is so great.

re: What Did We Learn From Big Brown's Haskell?

katsan — Sun, 10 Aug 2008 02:45:51 GMT

Now Ruidoso Downs has changed a lot from the old days, it's interesting. They have a designated track for the QH races between the grandstand and the main track. One of my very early memories is when we used to go on the mesa and watch the match races. Just like Louisiana a lot of good jockeys came up here from those match races. In fact a lot of good jockeys got their start here In NM. I can't remember for sure how big it was but we had a training track around one 10 acre parcel of our farm here in Alb. I've walked it many ttmes but we've planted over it now, not sure how big it was.

re: What Did We Learn From Big Brown's Haskell?

Wanda — Sat, 09 Aug 2008 23:54:43 GMT

GirlPower: He has testicles, I'm sure he does think he's an "alpha male".

re: What Did We Learn From Big Brown's Haskell?

Wanda — Sat, 09 Aug 2008 23:30:32 GMT

Thanks for answering Katsan and I hear you about bullrings. Get this I ran horses on a half mile track too! At home it's a five eights track so first time I saw a mile I was like oh my god I didn't know they could make them that big!

re: What Did We Learn From Big Brown's Haskell?

Girl Power — Sat, 09 Aug 2008 22:15:39 GMT

You could be right about the proximity of other horses disturbing Big Brown. It's becoming obvious that he dislikes being pinned in behind horses. KD probably knew that, which would explain why he jerked him off the rail early in the Belmont. It has been very fortunate for BB that he drew the far outside post in both the Derby and FL Derby. I remember reading somewhere, early on in his career, one of his connections say that BB is an alpha male and does not like other horses near him.

I saw how after crossing the wire in the Haskell, KD was battling with BB trying to prevent him from galloping out. Why would he do that? What is the deal with him? Let the horse gallop out and cool down for gods sakes. And then when he turns him around with the aid of another horse (Coal Play?), he just stops Big Brown cold. The horse could have had a heart attack. I really think Garret Gomez, Prado, Nakatani, or even Rose again would be better for BB.

re: What Did We Learn From Big Brown's Haskell?

katsan — Sat, 09 Aug 2008 20:47:27 GMT

Wanda, The funny thing is we had very few quarter horses. I think just one running back then a very nice filly who ended up getting hurt retired and we now have her grandson and last decendent a grandaughter Dash For Cash is grandsire. Later on my sister took all the QH's for her rodeo, in HS, College and Jr they can rope, goat tie etc as Im sure you know. I knew Wayne from Sunland Park and Ruidoso Downs. He ran a lot of quarter horses we ran TB's on what they called a bull ring at Ruidoso. Also knew Keith Asmussen, Steve's dad, he rode for us a couple times. Knew JJ (Jake) Pletcher from there too, bunch of the oldies buy goodies. Yes you spelled Albuquerque right. Actually I'm up here now and we have hay down still and it is thundering like crazy. Rained last night too. Not sure if you read my early post but they're moving the track here at the Fair Grounds, out to the middle of nowhere 40 miles or so out of ALB. Don't know how long ago you were here but we now have a track at Hobbs, one at Farmington in addition to the others. Raton closed years ago and so did Santa Fe Downs, they're talking about reopening them though, slots are huge here. In fact we have an Indian Casino (yes that is what they call them here, it's politically correct) that is just a couple miles from the farm. There are 10 more within a 70 mile radius. I know the owner of the track in ALB so I'm not saying too much, just not very happy. Our 'friend' hasn't been as vocal, where it got bad was on the other blog with SH, not fun seems okay now.

Paula,

Actually Dr. Caton is a Neurologist/Neurosurgeon. Maybe you recall Jeff had an accident in 93 when Tabasco Cat ran into him and Jeff suffered a severe brain injury. The cardiologist was another Dr who saved the life of the owner and he named him that name, wish I could remember. Big storm rolling through here right now. So better get off computer.

re: What Did We Learn From Big Brown's Haskell?

Paula Higgins — Sat, 09 Aug 2008 19:26:53 GMT

Katsan, thanks for your very nice reply.I really do appreciate it. I am sorry the Lukas horse didn't do quite as well but I bet the cardiologist was thrilled to have a horse named after him. I know I would be. A little piece of immortality. You would have loved Dr. Fager, the human/person. The horse Dr.Fager was specatcular.

TBRacing Fan thank you for the link and explanation. I DO now see it thanks to your explanation. That worries me. Why would he do that? If a horse just won a race like that for me I would let him do WHATEVER he wanted, short of injuring himself. I hope that Rick Dutrow sees this and has a chat with him if they don't choose a different rider for the upcoming races. I like KD. He seems like a very nice guy. But I think thye are having problems communicating. The Belmont ride is still confusing to me an I don't understand why he seemed to be fighting with a horse that wanted to run. Maybe this is a horse you should just let run to the front and let him go?

re: What Did We Learn From Big Brown's Haskell?

Wanda — Sat, 09 Aug 2008 16:38:48 GMT

Katsan: Did your family run Quarter horses? I thought maybe that's why you know D. Wayne way back in N.M. I took a trip down to Albuquerque(did I spell it right) way back in the early 80's. My friend worked for Bob Wattie and was a truck driver. We took down oats and hay to the track there cause Bob had a stable of horses running there.It was early winter and I thought man I'm getting away from the cold for a week. No downside to that except sitting in a Freightliner all the way down and back. It was a free ride tho.

Anywho, nice to read your stuff and others except he who we don't name. Keep it up cause it makes for a good read!

re: What Did We Learn From Big Brown's Haskell?

Concernred in PA — Sat, 09 Aug 2008 16:06:52 GMT

After looking at the replay of the Haskill I can't help but notice once again how Big Brown throws his head up at the beginning of the race, as he did in the Belmont. Is it a from being pulled up and "not smoothly" as "deb" mentioned, or does it have something to do with the horses around him? I thought in the Belmont he was uncomfortably close to the horse in front of him at one point, and when he seemed to be throwing his head up, wondered if he was upset about dirt thrown in his face/eyes/nose and never regained composure. The head throwing in the Haskell happened at the same time another horse came up on him....so, was he being pulled up, or is he having a reaction to the horse next to him as he remembers something unpleasant? I get the feeling that this is an intelligent animal, so who knows what might be going through his head. All I know is that he seemed to break from the gate "happy" (ears up), yet soon was throwing his head around and had his ears back (not lose and floppy as in the Derby and Preakness). I just can't decide if is a reaction to the horses around him, or to something being done by the jockey. Look at the replays.....what do you think?

re: What Did We Learn From Big Brown's Haskell?

katsan — Sat, 09 Aug 2008 12:13:16 GMT

Paula,

I'm so happy we have a fan like you. I hope the whole RD thing goes away. Friends in the same circuit as RD, say he isn't all bad, just can't stop talking. I just know it affects us all. As far as Kent, I really don't know. I do know that RD originallly wanted Edgar, I heard this from another friend back in that circuit. What a neat story about Dr.Fager! I remember a horse named after a cardiologist, but don't remember the name, (senior moment). I slso remember Dr.Caton, a horse named after the Dr who saved Jeff Lukas' life I always wanted him to do well, he was never quite the horse I think Wayne hoped for. Know Wayne from the OLD days in NM.Things on the othr blog got very nasty and very personal, surprising who did the attacking. Not sure some warrnated it. Too much stress. Jason,I prefer your email explanations.

re: What Did We Learn From Big Brown's Haskell?

Wanda — Sat, 09 Aug 2008 05:55:10 GMT

Thanks for the comeback Atthebarn2.I appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions.Can we all agree that maybe this horse has been and is not managed properly. I think everyone can agree on that one.If they are looking to squeeze more money out of this horse then by all means run him where he can win easy. It looks better in the stallion registry( by their thinking). If they want HOY then they better rethink their choice of a turf race.If he don't hook the handicap division it's doutful he'll get the nod as HOY.

re: What Did We Learn From Big Brown's Haskell?

TBRacingFan — Sat, 09 Aug 2008 03:57:33 GMT

[quote]They point to the way he was pulled up after the Haskell was finished. I have looked at the race on youtube and I can't see what they are seeing[/quote]

Paula Higgins 08 aug 2008 10:08 PM

Paula, this youtube link shows most of what I saw:

www.youtube.com/watch

Watch again, from the '2:28' point of the video (when you'll first notice BB begin to try to shake off KD's high and strong hold ...), and pay particular attention from the '2:38' through '2:54' point of the video. Note the 'throw' or 'punch' of BB's right fore, at the '3:04' point of the video, a gesture of defiance, in a horse. Watch his ears - until KD stops pulling at his head, BB's ears are not pricked forward, but swinging back, nearly pinned, at one point, trying to figure out just what his rider wants, of him. They *** forward when he's finally facing the stands. Keep in mind, as you watch, that this horse just fought a serious battle, to win the Haskell. Keep in mind that the winner does not need to 'rush' back, to the winner's circle. After an effort like that, when a horse is still moving like a train, it behooves the rider to give, not take, rein; to keep hands low, and to ease the horse up.

When I saw this action, on KD's part, my heart was in my throat! I expected to see, at any moment, KD jump off the horse, and grab at one of BB's forelegs - I thought he was pulling up an injured horse! The only time I've ever seen a rider fight a horse that much, after the wire, is when something has gone so horribly wrong, that extreme measures must be taken to stop the horse ASAP. The YouTube video stops soon after the 3:15 point, (where you'll see BB's head is still high, and he tosses it in annoyance) so what you don't get to see is the outrider pick up BB. I watched, very very carefully, to see if BB would continue to fight for his head - he did not. I watched, very very carefully, to see if BB would move soundly, alongside the pony. He did. I know that my husband would have had a fit, if any jockey pulled up one of his horses, like that. The horse has just fought a battle to win. There is no sense in making the horse battle, to stop! Let him ease to a trot, before turning him back to the winner's circle. KD turns the horse at the canter, not the trot - and then brings him to a halt with barely four strides, at the 'half-half'. What was the hurry?

If you watch the Belmont, you'll see a similar confrontation between KD and BB before the horses even make the quarter mile. There are occasions - more so in a sprint - where a jock needs to strong-arm his mount into a striking position. But the Belmont is a mile and a half, for Heaven's sake! No one fights their mount, in the Belmont, for position, until they've run at least a mile. How that manhandling didn't cause BB to mis-step, and be injured, is beyond lucky!

This all said, I was not on the horse. But I surely did not see anything that suggested the horse should have been so roughly stopped. I'd have let him have some rein, kept my hands on his withers for balance, and used my body to add wind resistance, to help BB slow down and then trot.

I personally like KD. But if BB was mine, and was going to race as a 4 yr. old, I'd be looking to another jockey ...

re: What Did We Learn From Big Brown's Haskell?

Paula Higgins — Sat, 09 Aug 2008 02:08:01 GMT

Katsan, look at my latest post on the other blog. I am calling for a truce on Rick and acknowledging that he has caused alot of pain in the horse racing community and that I respect the feelings of those who don't like him. Clearly his comments have alienated a ton of people. The end result is that he loses-respect and friendship of the people in the community and for that I am truly sorry. I can't imagine what it must be like to know people dislike you that much. It would be crushing to me.

I loved the way you described the relationship people in the business have for their horses. It's pretty much what I pictured in my mind. I know they are well loved and cared for and I know the horses know it too. An interesting note is that I worked with Dr. (Charles) Fager many years ago in Boston at the hospital I worked in (New England Baptist Hospital). He was a brilliant neurosurgeon and a really nice man (I can't say that for all M.D.s). A true class act. In some ways he reminded me of a jockey because he was quite small. Did you know the AMA (I think it was the AMA, could have been one of the other medical societies) censured him because he had a horse named after him? It was utterly absurd and would never happen now but back then it was the Dark Ages of Medicine. Great man, great horse.

People are posting that KD is not matching up well with BB at this point. i wonder if that is true. They point to the way he was pulled up after the Haskell was finished. I have looked at the race on youtube and I can't see what they are seeing. I hope that isn't happening because I don't think they are changing riders.

re: What Did We Learn From Big Brown's Haskell?

TBRacingFan — Sat, 09 Aug 2008 01:11:50 GMT

[quote](And why, I wonder, didn't Dreyfus name his horse, 'Olive' ...)

[/quote] TBF

Ah, so. Third Martini did indeed sire an 'Olive' - out of Can Make A Tree ... a filly of 1967. Unraced herself, no racing prodgeny. Just a bit of trivia ... :~}

re: What Did We Learn From Big Brown's Haskell?

TBRacingFan — Fri, 08 Aug 2008 16:35:09 GMT

I'm inclined to agree, Haystraw. I think, in spite of the racing idiom to not tamper with a good partnership (and wins in the Derby and the Preakness certainly suggest the partnership started out well enough ...) might be holding back Big Brown from making a connection with a rider who will not quite so dramatically try to direct the horse, to its apparent detriment. I think KD has some issue with BB (or perhaps with BB's connections ...), and I thought so before they finished the first quarter of the Belmont. My impression was further supported by the drama between KD and BB 'pulling up' after the wire, in the Haskell. I'd have called KD on the carpet, for such a rough bit of work, on a horse that had just worked its hardest, to get ahead of a horse [CoalPlay] that looked for all the world like it would win the Haskell, by daylight, when the two hit the 1/16 pole ...

re: What Did We Learn From Big Brown's Haskell?

HAYSTRAW — Fri, 08 Aug 2008 15:15:37 GMT

I think Big Brown is tired of KD. KD needs to let the horse run his race, settle into his stride without sawing back on the reins. KD should let the horse alone, looks like he's already worn out BB's "push-button". When BB came round the turn he was gaining slightly on Coal Play then KD started doing gymnastics just as BB was firing, lengthening his stride as he came round the turn only to have KD throw him off balance. Look at KD's knees when he leans, and the way he uses the crop, there is just too much commotion going on on BB's back and he's probably waiting to be pulled up again.

re: What Did We Learn From Big Brown's Haskell?

TBRacingFan — Fri, 08 Aug 2008 05:53:55 GMT

[quote]... the trainers talking about it to each other are all saying he [Big Brown] was all out against a NWx2 other than [Coal Play][/quote] Katsan 07 Aug 2008 9:35 PM

Hmmm. I have a sudden craving for a Third Martini ... does anyone have an onion? Oh, wait! That would make it a Gibson, wouldn't it? (I am, after all, an old fashsioned girl! rotf,lmho!) IOW, even a great horse can be beaten, on any given day, under any given circumstances, by a horse with lighter credentials. And, Big Brown was not beaten. (And why, I wonder, didn't Dreyfus name his horse, 'Olive' ...)

The trainers talking about it to each other may indeed all be saying he [Big Brown] was all out against a NWx2 other than [Coal Play] - but I would bet (and I'm not a gambling girl) they are all wishing Big Brown had been in their barn, a year ago! (And yes, this is also meant to be funny, not a lecture, or 'talking down' to anyone ... I suppose I'd better not take my act on the road.)

re: What Did We Learn From Big Brown's Haskell?

katsan — Fri, 08 Aug 2008 05:33:30 GMT

Paula, Actually it's John Nerud. He is the 95 year old trainer that Carl Nafzger gives credit to for starting him out. He also trained for Tartan Farms and turned over Codex to Wayne Lukas who won the 1980 Preakness despite the thought that Cordero interfered with the filly Genuine Risk. Nerud's still kicking and breeds racehorses or did until recently. He trained Dr Fager. If he says that might be a problem, well it's possible. I just know a lot of us couldn't pinpoint it but who knows, as most racetrackers are saying it was an underwhelming performance, was there a reason???

The HBO special was about Eventing and how many horses and riders have died recently, staggering, I think like 14 riders and not sure how many horses. Yes more riders &horses die in racing but many thousands more are involved. Let me assure you that despite some people who comment on here and make remarks about trainers in defense of Mr.Dutrow (not you) every single trainer I know, no matter how famous or how small the stable, treat their horses wonderfully. They feed them peppermints and treats, they kiss them, hug them, talk to them, give them the best care imaginable. We even hand cook their feed here. I know even some big time trainers who have been crushed by losing a horse, swearing they won't ever get so close again, but admit to loving each horse and I personally have seen them talking to them like they are their kids. I'm sure just like parents that don't treat their kids right,there are trainers who may do that, they don't last long. You just keep on watching, we need fans like you.But, I read the other blog,and you might want to temper your defense of Rick, just stick to what you love in racing because trust me he's about gotten on the industry's last nerve.

re: What Did We Learn From Big Brown's Haskell?

TBRacingFan — Fri, 08 Aug 2008 05:03:47 GMT

Katsan, I can only think that the 'formality' of my writing style may have slanted the interpretation of what I wrote. (That is one of the 'problems' with such communication - the nuances of face-to-face conversations are not available, via 'blogs'.) What I wrote was in no way meant as a 'lecture'. Instead, it was meant to be humourous. It was meant to explain how one so old (in style, if not in actual years) as I might still call a 'stick' or a 'whip', a bat - and why.

I did misunderstand your adjective 'fan', in relation to Jack - I did think you meant fan of racing, more than fan of 'old' Saratoga. However, there, too, I only replied with a sense of irony; I don't even think Jack would have described himself as a 'fan' of either racing or Saratoga, in spite of having devoted 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year, and some 3/4 of a century, or so, to Thoroughbreds.

I don't think many men of his generation though of themselves as fans. I think they though of themselves as horsemen - and gentlemen. I think, perhaps, I am resistant to the 'change' of which you speak. I far prefer the formality of trainers who did their best to play their game much as a good poker player does theirs - with their cards close to their chest. Those days disappeared, too. But you are right - Jack is gone, and evidently he has no intention of returning, any time soon. :~} Please forgive me for dwelling on the past.

Bighorsefan, I'm an old-fashioned person, certainly, but far from an elitist. I can still pitch manure with the best of grooms (and have cleared a foal's nostrils of amniotic fluid whilst still wearing heels and hose, having come to the barns before the house, on my way home from work!) Elitist? I think not! But I do know the difference between the racetrack, and the beach! lol! I personally did not know Tom Smith, and although introduced to trainers Whiteley and Lauren, and others of their generation, now all in Valhalla, I certainly would not describe myself as 'knowing' them. But they were men of a quiet type. Now, it seems the flamboyant trainer is the media darling. A trainer who, like Mr. Dutrow, will be happy to tell all and sundry that his horse is 'way better' than another's horse. In the days of 'quieter' trainers, the last thing they wanted was for anyone else to know anything, whatsoever, about the horses in their barns! It was not good for the odds - and it is, after all, a gambling game. I do still go to the races, weekly (although not to Saratoga, since the year after Jack's passing. It was just a tad too bittersweet, for me). But I will admit, the track makes very little profit, from me. A lady never bets, at the racetrack (after all, bookies have families to feed, too! lol!)

Paula Higgins, I believe the trainer of which you wrote is John Nerud, a Hall of Fame trainer particularly good with sprinters, but who won the Belmont with Gallant Man - in those days, they even named horses well, didn't they! 'Big Brown' - honestly! :~} Mr. Nerud commented, I believe, that often a horse with an abscessed tooth will 'lug' away from the side that hurts. There are some horses which lug for no particular (or more correctly, evident ...) reason, at all - and such are often fitted with a bit that looks like something out of the dark ages - with spokes that are 'spring' fitted on the bit; if a horse moves 'into' them, they poke. I've got one around here, somewhere ... lol

Again, Katsan, please understand that no lecture was - or is - intended. I am just sentimental, that's all. And I've enjoyed finding this forum, with its racing fans, both young and old, opinionated or open-minded. What a bore life would be, if we were all of like personality, no? After all, a difference of opinion - and style - is what makes a horserace!

re: What Did We Learn From Big Brown's Haskell?

Paula Higgins — Fri, 08 Aug 2008 02:30:13 GMT

Katsan,

I did not see the HBO special and I am glad I didn't. I suspect it was about slaughtering horses that don't make it in the races. Am I right? For that matter, Congress is thinking of allowing the mass slaughtering of wild horses out west somewhere. I have e-mailed my Senator and Congressman about that. They both replied but didn't agree with me. I wish HBO would do a special about that.

I have heard it said before, what you noted-that they love to run. They look like that to me too when I watch it-that they love it, which is why I watch it. The two friends that have horses, who don't appove of racing, really don't know that much about racing. They just think they know what goes on. I don't argue with them except to say that I know they are well cared for and have very good lives in general. Believe me, I wouldn't watch it for love or money if I thought these animals didn't have good lives.

I have a question. Someone on another blog said that maybe BB's mouth is the source of his problem/pain. They said a man named Bill Nerud(?) who has been in horse racing for many years thinks that is the problem. Any comments on that idea?

re: What Did We Learn From Big Brown's Haskell?

BIGHORSEFAN — Fri, 08 Aug 2008 02:04:56 GMT

Wow Jason, now if all these expert, huge racing fans would just go to the track as spectators and spend their money as freely as they spout their opinions, racing would be one of the top sports in the country again.

The lady talking about the old days at Saratoga, well the Spa is still okay in my book, just got back. If you want the aristocratic racing, go to Ascot, those days are gone forever here because although the old money is still in racing, it's the new money and the corporate partnerships and the foreign entities that are running the game here now. Funny though in the old days the Kentucky Blue bloods and the hoity toity owners were held in high esteem, the trainers, jockeys and backside workers were looked at almost like carnie people. As for the present, change or get left behind, the modern day motto. And without the giveaways, sometimes even with them -the tracks are dying one by one. I'm not sure how long it's been since you've been to Saratoga but you sound like an elitist who hasn't been there in at least 30 years. If you are of an age where you knew the Tom Smith's of the game, I applaud you, you write very well for someone of that advanced age, heck my 87 year old grandfather won't even attempt to use a computer and he is very highly educated. Even if your opinions are valid you alienate people immediately, another modern day problem I guess. As for me well I guess I'll listen to the trainers on here, in the DRF, that I talk to at the various tracks I go to and to people with connections, like Jason and Steve.

re: What Did We Learn From Big Brown's Haskell?

katsan — Fri, 08 Aug 2008 01:35:52 GMT

TBRacingFan, I was referincing you as a fan, saying 'Jack' as you described was A fan of the old Saratoga (in other words PREFERRED)

Unfortunately for those of us who long for days gone by are probably few and far between. Like a song says though, life's about changes, nothing ever stays the same. My own father near 90 and Uncle in his late 80's do the same wishful thinking. My Uncle saw some of the old time greats run at Saratoga he wishes for those days. But that was also in the days of the racing Blue Bloods and like in the 50's through the late 70's racing was an elitist society and very cliquish, I've discussed that on here and longed for those days.I and others involved in racing for the last 50+ years would love to see the huge crowds we USED to draw, those days are gone I'm afraid. My reference to the stick or whip is modern terminology used by those of us who are still in there and plugging away, just like our fathers and grandfathers before us. I know they still sell them as Jockey Bats, my sister calls it a bat in her profession as a barrel racer but people nowadays see the reference to the stick or whip in horseracing. I don't think BB was hurt in the Belmont, but I don't think he's quite right now, or like I and other trainers on here have said, maybe he just isn't as good as we all thought he was in the spring, a trainer who would absolutely know this having raced against him said it originally. The point I wss making about hitting him on the shoulder with the stick (bat) was that is usually what is done when they are lugging out and that is what concerned me about his run.Yes he also hit him on the shoulder to keep him going but the horse was absolutely ridden all out period. I was a long time assistant trainer, my own husband a longggg time trainer,his colleagues,my retired trainer father , the trainers on here, the trainers talking about it to each other are all saying he was all out against a NWx2 other than. Not to be unkind but your husband may have been a trainer (not quite sure that was the exact reference), he's not here to give an opinion, maybe it would be the same as yours but I'll listen to the dozens who are still living. Actually I even agree with some of your points, your delivery I don't. Even the people who train now and have for many, many years, know the connections and everything that goes on in racing in the modern age as well as days gone by, didn't talk down or lecture like that. Whereas there may not be a lot of us on here reading or commenting there are a few. Some that have some very interesting insight and inside information knowing the connections and all the other 'experts' just talk over the top of all of us.

re: What Did We Learn From Big Brown's Haskell?

JordanA — Thu, 07 Aug 2008 22:33:22 GMT

Jason's fellow writer has an interesting article. He reiterates what a couple of people said on here that are horsemen, when he told that the horsemen at Saratoga were saying that BB's performance in the Haskell was underwhelming. Guess it's a consensus of the men and women who do this every day of their lives.

re: What Did We Learn From Big Brown's Haskell?

TBRacingFan — Thu, 07 Aug 2008 22:04:48 GMT

Katsan, I agree, Mr. Dutrow, et al, should limit remarks to their own entry, and avoid making comments about other contenders. If only there were still horsemen of the caliber of Frank Whiteley; Lucien Lauren; Tom Smith, and other taciturn track veterans. Trainers who knew enough to tell very little about their charges, much less run down the merits of the other entries. Owners who would speak well of the competition. Those days seem so long gone.

Hmmm. Well, I'm not sure I'd have called Jack a 'fan' - he was an alumnus of Cornell's school of architecture, but from graduation until his departure from this earth, earned his living and supported his family by breeding, birthing, breaking, breezing and bringing home enough in purses, with TBs in NY (not only Aqu and Bel, but OJam!), to avoid foodstamps. As did his father, before him. [They, BTW, called it 'a bat' - and thus, so do I. A whip meant a hunt servant (an assistant to the huntsman); a stick meant a slender branch, or a slender man (a slender woman was a reed); and a crop meant something one grew - corn, wheat, soybeans.] :~}

The Saratoga of Jack's era included graceful elms standing guard along Union and East. Saratoga before the age of men (in baggy shorts, dirty gym shoes, and tank tops), and women (in flip flops), pushing prams (with their pablum spewing infants) between the prancing ponies parading from Okalhoma to the main track (while Pinkertons try to prevent mishaps) overpopulating the Paddock, and the world, at large. But I digress.

I hope BB will run again. I hope the bearing out, and the reluctance to change his lead, don't indicate a serious problem. I freely admit I'd like to see BB in the Travers, myself - but I don't think I'd go for it, if the decision was mine to make.

re: What Did We Learn From Big Brown's Haskell?

Atthebarn2 — Thu, 07 Aug 2008 19:51:28 GMT

Wanda,

Little busy yesterday,not so much today. I think our guy was an underbidder or second underbidder on one or two. A couple RNA. This was what they call a boutique sale so more limited on what there is. Personally, I need to sell a couple myself but not a pinhooker so we'll see. The one that had my eye was out of my price range you know who, don't bid myself,auction fever.The Harlans Holiday's well the higher selling one went to Live Oak, how do you compete with Charlotte and her soup empire. Told my wife I knew we should've sold the soup she cans. The other one I can't recall who bought it. I liked an Afleet Alex, a Silver Deputy think Legends or Lukas got those. The September sale over 5000 consigned there I think, something for everyone. As for the big debate, I want to see what happens at SA period. Let's see what they do if that track is as problematic as it was before they changed it out. Maybe next year the BC WILL be run on a different surface at the same track. As for BB I'm a skeptic, like a lot of racetrackers I'm not sure he'll be back. 3 Chimney's hype on the banner ere "courageous in the Haskell" hmm. As katsan referenced Nick Zito's quote from the DRF 8/6

"Curlin is the Horse of the Year, so when Rick makes those statements, I'm thinking maybe he should get the phone number of Tony Soprano's psychologist. Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of Big Brown. But Rick still needs to get that phone number."