Who Will the Favorites Be?

re: Who Will the Favorites Be?

Monty — Wed, 20 Oct 2010 20:23:32 GMT

Man you Zenyatta haters have sure forgotten the 2009 B.C. Classic and the way she drove through and around traffic, to blow by the best horses in the world, the last sixteenth ! Short memories, and by the way Santa Anita is not her home track, nor her favorite, it's Hollywood ! The queen at 2/1 is great "value", anything higher is gold, take it, unless the track is "slop", Zenyatta stays undefeated, 20-0 and finally, Horse of the Decade & beyond !!!

re: Who Will the Favorites Be?

Billy's Empire — Mon, 18 Oct 2010 19:48:37 GMT

Jayjay, all I will say is that QR ducked no one, the MET MILE is just as prestigious as the Foster, and you need to stop trying to backtrack.

re: Who Will the Favorites Be?

Draynay — Mon, 18 Oct 2010 00:20:29 GMT

Mike I have always been right about Zenyatta having average talent on dirt. Wait a few more days and the proof will be there for ALL to see.

re: Who Will the Favorites Be?

jayjay — Sat, 16 Oct 2010 07:28:19 GMT

Billy : Mind reader ?? You think anticipating a field for one of the big races in the whole year requires mind reading ?? There's not that many top contenders even early in the year. In fact, there wasn't that many that some have already crowned QR the beast of the east....then comes Blame.

re: Who Will the Favorites Be?

Mike Relva — Sat, 16 Oct 2010 02:54:54 GMT

DRAYNAY

How many times so far have you been right regarding Zenyatta?

re: Who Will the Favorites Be?

Draynay — Sat, 16 Oct 2010 02:21:49 GMT

Mike, I think it's cute that you actually believe she will even race in the Classic. What trainer in his right mind would race a mare against the best dirt males in the world having never beat any male on dirt before? She can't win and Moss knows it. Look for some crazy excuse soon.

re: Who Will the Favorites Be?

Mike Relva — Fri, 15 Oct 2010 22:02:44 GMT

DRAYNAY

I'm keeping my fingers crossed after Zenyatta wins you will go away!

re: Who Will the Favorites Be?

Billy's Empire — Fri, 15 Oct 2010 20:26:17 GMT

If you would of bet, yuo would of lost your shirt dude. Is Todd Pletcher a friggin mind reader? Can he see the future? I doubt it

re: Who Will the Favorites Be?

jayjay — Fri, 15 Oct 2010 17:43:16 GMT

2:24 : Just to clarify and I'm sure you got it but I meant "I won't pretend even for a minute that I know more about THE GAME THAN YOU." lol

Anyway, I get yours and others point that it would've been truly great to see her race outside of California and I don't doubt for a second that she would've beaten LaT and RA. IMO, RA is not one of the top contenders in this division. I thought LaT is and St. Trinians. The way Rachel beat LaT, there's no doubt that Zen would've put her away easily.

Like you said, we differ in the way we see how horses are campaigned. I prefer that the horses takes the easy route and save themselves for the big races in the fall, the championship races. Zenyatta is 6 yrs old and every naysayer is asking her to run against colts and fillies. I think the younger ones should've traveled to her, to even it up seeing as she's the older horse. I don't buy the synthetic excuse, it's just too old of an argument and nothing out there says dirt is safer than synthetics and the fact that horses from the east don't like to run on synthetics is not something that can be blamed on Team Z. They never said no to anyone but they can't be expected to change their plans just so she can "prove" herself. It will be proven in the championship race, which is the Breeder's Cup. Everyone seems healthy, no excuses, one race, determines the champion.

If you bet against Zen, I wish you luck!

re: Who Will the Favorites Be?

jayjay — Fri, 15 Oct 2010 16:36:32 GMT

Billy : I would bet that TP had some idea that the Foster field will be tougher. Don't listen to Jason, he knows nothing about me lol.

Jason : How about you pick your hero, are you still waiting for the weather forecast ?? Are you waiting for the post parade to look at horses ??

re: Who Will the Favorites Be?

In aint easy being good! — Fri, 15 Oct 2010 14:05:58 GMT

PJJ look at Haynesfield resume this year 6 out of 7 and lost one race when he broke through the gate which is the kiss of death. Made Blame look ordinary in the cold cup and will be ready to roll in 22 days. HAYNESFIELD HERE WE COME!

re: Who Will the Favorites Be?

Draynay — Fri, 15 Oct 2010 03:55:28 GMT

PJJ get back with me when Zenyatta beats males on dirt. 23 days until she is exposed for what she really is. Zenyatta fans enjoy your last 23 days.

re: Who Will the Favorites Be?

2:24 — Fri, 15 Oct 2010 00:05:38 GMT

Sodapopkid: I agree. Too bad Zenyatta didn't get a chance to prove us right.

re: Who Will the Favorites Be?

sodapopkid — Thu, 14 Oct 2010 18:12:41 GMT

Just would have loved to see Big Z in the Personal Ensign.

Re: Then RA and Persistantly and LAT would have lost to Zenyatta.

re: Who Will the Favorites Be?

Jason Shandler — Thu, 14 Oct 2010 17:52:02 GMT

Billy: No sense in trying to make sense of what Jayjay says about Zenyatta. He has his pom poms and cheerleader outfit on, and how dare anyone say anything negative about his hero.

re: Who Will the Favorites Be?

Billy's Empire — Thu, 14 Oct 2010 17:47:36 GMT

Jayjay wrote

"I still believe that TP ducked Blame in the Foster, I honestly believe that because he was saving QR for the big races in the fall and there's nothing wrong with that. I told you I agree with that strategy."

Jayjay, Todd announced after the Donn that QR was getting a break and going to the MET Mile. He gave everyone notice. Blame's first race of the year was May 15th. How the heck did he avoid Blame when

a. blame had not raced in 2010 when Pletcher made that statement

b. he told everyone he was going to the met mile. He avoided no one

re: Who Will the Favorites Be?

PJJ — Thu, 14 Oct 2010 14:53:37 GMT

Zenyatta is definitly not of this world. Anyone that claims she hasn't proven her self, I ask you this, Proven her self against what? What has she not proven her self against. What NA horse proved their selves in 2010. The one's that got beat by lesser caliber horses, the same Zen was running againsst in Cali. No horse in NA proved themselves better than Zen did. She proved her self against diversity, pace, heart, and soul. She proved what no other horse did, She proved she could get to the finish line first against the odds. NOw, thats class.

The problem for her is she hasnt lost a race yet, So her competition looks weak. Well, if thats the case, Lets look at what QR raced against, he won against lesser caliber horses than he, but lost to Blame, Blame won over QR, but lost to a lesser caliber horse than he, Haynesfield. So what woould have been the reason to travel for Zenyatta. The races in Cali with males were at 1 1/4 distances, her trainer didnt want to put her a race with that length yet, Smart move. I say, if you can show me a better NA horse with a more perfect season than Zenyatta, point it out, because for the last two years, I havent seen a horse that even compares to her in the least.

re: Who Will the Favorites Be?

2:24 — Thu, 14 Oct 2010 14:38:25 GMT

jayjay, thank you for the thoughtful reply. I guess we differ on the general idea of how horses should be campaigned. I wish most horses, not just Zenyatta, raced more often in top races. It would be better for the industry. As for Quality Road's choice of races, showing up in the Grade I Donn, Met Mile, Whitney and Woodward, historically speaking those are top races open to all comers. You just cannot fault him for that, in my opinion. Now, obviously Zenyatta can only beat those who run against her as well. However, I would have been happier if they had gone outside the California filly and mare division for a super filly who has already dominated that division for the past two years. I also respectfully take issue with your comment that Zenyatta has faced the top horses in her division. She hasn't faced Life at Ten or Rachel. I know those horses could have gone to California to face her. I just think with the quirkiness of synthetic tracks it would have been more reasonable for her to come face them on dirt. And I know Rachel ducked the Apple Blossom, I was very critical of that when it happened. Just would have loved to see Big Z in the Personal Ensign.

re: Who Will the Favorites Be?

Slew — Thu, 14 Oct 2010 12:17:26 GMT

Kautostar...don't omit John Gosden who loves coming to the US, and already won the BC Classic with Raven's Pass. Debussy and Tazeez came in 1st and 3rd in the Arlington Million. I hope we see him come to the BC.

And the "Win and you're in" does include travel expenses....and I would love to see Workforce come, but I don't think it was in their plans.

One thing I thoroughly enjoy about UK racing is that a horse who doesn't want to load is not forced to load. It may be terrible for wagering, but best for the horse.

re: Who Will the Favorites Be?

jayjay — Thu, 14 Oct 2010 08:15:48 GMT

2:24 : I guess I am insane because believe it or not, I do respect your knowledge of the game. I won't pretend even for a minute that I know more about you than the game. But one thing I know, is that the top contenders of this year have taken the easy route. QR running in the G2 Hal's Hope against that field as well as the G1 Donn with that kind of field doesn't really tell me much about the horse. Yes, he's a true speed horse and against mediocre field, he does dominate. I still believe that TP ducked Blame in the Foster, I honestly believe that because he was saving QR for the big races in the fall and there's nothing wrong with that. I told you I agree with that strategy. A yearlong racing can be hard against the horse specially the quality of breeding we now have. We're lucky to see QR racing in his 4 yr old season seeing how many felt he was the best 3 yr old last year. Most owners would've retired him but they needed him to get some G1s which he did this year.

My point is that Zenyatta's campaign, because she didn't face boys which is totally out of the norm is being questioned when she has gone against the best in her division. QR didn't go against the best in his division until the Whitney. Do I "Blame" his connections for that, no, they wanted a good record going into the fall and that's smart. Too bad you can't see the same for Team Z.

Yes, I agree that if she had run in those races you mentioned, her legend would be even more and more people would accept her but the way I see it is, the Classic is probably the most important race of her career, not to say that it's the only legit race throughout the year but it's because she won it last year. If she wins, can you honestly say that another mare would ever win B2B Classic or even have the chance to try for it ? To some, the Classic is just one race at the end of the year, to me, it's the championship race, because at the start of the year, most of the owners/trainers set their goals to be the Breeder's Cup. It's where the best horses that lasts the whole year will go to tackle the other best horses and that's why I believe it's the championship race.

Zenyatta's legend is set in stone, regardless of who she raced against all her life or what you and I thinks. The greats of the past never raced ONLY against the best, it's been posted many times that they too had walkover races and overmatched opponents. Those are not questioned because not a lot of us were there to watch it. To watch Zenyatta dominate her division seems boring but to me, it shows her greatness considering her style of running.

Billy Billy Billy : Are you sure he will not scratch ? What if a big bee flies around him lol? I do know he'll be in the Classic, I tend to believe what TP says about QR, I just think he should be running in the Mile where he has pretty much a lock to win. And no, I don't think he's the main threat to Zen, he's the main threat to Haynesfield but not to Zen. I'm not a big fan of SC, I guess it's pretty obvious by now that I don't like speed horses lol. I prefer the closers, they always give me a chance to hit the board.

" 2:24, Relax. Zenyatta will be exposed for the all surface mare winner that she is. The minute she steps on dirt vs. males she is the best horse in the race. 24 more days and I will be EXPOSED.

Draynay 13 Oct 2010 9:15 PM " LOL

re: Who Will the Favorites Be?

predict — Thu, 14 Oct 2010 03:03:50 GMT

Zenyatta probably deserves m/l fav for the classic , I totally agree.

But, is Espoir City still coming to the classic from Japan. If so, this is a horse to watch. When Tizway went to Japan and faced him, Tiz ran 12th, but I don't know by how many lengths Espoir beat him. We know that Tizway that same year ran 3rd to Summer Bird, about 5 lengths back, and we know Summer Bird was beat by Zenyatta in lasts year BCC by about 3 lengths, of course this was not on dirt. So what I'm trying to figure by using Tizway as a common denominator, won't Espoir and Zenyatta show similar ability, and don't forget that Espoir's grandsire certainly could run at Churchill, albeit on a track labeled muddy( but was really close to dry at post time), and in really slow time for the Derby (2:05).

Go figure....

re: Who Will the Favorites Be?

Mike Relva — Thu, 14 Oct 2010 01:43:14 GMT

DRAYNAY

So this is the same crap you ALWAYS shovel when you stated last yr she couldn't win the Classic. Remember? This year you said she wouldn't win another race,REMEMBER? Or the slam about dirt when her two dirt races she wins by larger margins than on poly. Question? Are you ever right on anything?

re: Who Will the Favorites Be?

Draynay — Thu, 14 Oct 2010 01:15:01 GMT

2:24, Relax. Zenyatta will be exposed for the synthetic state mare winner that she is. The minute she steps on dirt vs. males she is the 4th best horse in the race. 24 more days and she will be EXPOSED.

re: Who Will the Favorites Be?

Kauto Star — Wed, 13 Oct 2010 22:31:23 GMT

Slew, it depends which stable you're talking about. Aidan O'Brien is very keen to win BC races, especially the Classic as that instantly raises the appeal of Coolmore stallions to American breeders. Just look at Giant's Causeway. Also, many of his horses have American based sires, so it makes more sense to try. Furthermore, the powers behind Ballydoyle have more than enough money to fun trips to the BC. Same with Godolphin and similarly large operations.

It's much more unusual for smaller yards and trainers with less money behind them, such as Richard Hannon, to aim for BC races.

Also, it really depends on the horse. The Arc is the climax of the European flat racing season, so it makes little sense for horses to then enter the BC after that. Thats why I hope Workforce doesn't run in the BC Turf, as I feel it will be an after thought and the horse won't do himself justice.

Sea The Stars actually wasn't retired until a couple of weeks after the Arc. In the immediate aftermath of the race, it was really unclear what his connections would do, though many correctly guessed that the horse would be done as he had gone in his coat. Anyway, it was a hotly debated topic here in Britain, with some people very adamant that he would take part in the Breeders Cup.

re: Who Will the Favorites Be?

Vince — Wed, 13 Oct 2010 21:06:58 GMT

thanks to the people for the bc links. it is the finest day's racing in the world bar none and I would not want to miss it. I am in germany where horseracing is not very popular so no tv coverage.

manny, you asked about the general opinion on sea the stars. I think most people agree that he was one of the best ever with that campaign taking all the best races from 1 mile to 12 furlongs. some people crab the form cos he never won by much but that was his style. visually, his kick in the derby and the acceleration he showed in the arc is not something you can put into figures. either it takes your breath away or it doesn't.

as for beating zenyatta, I think sts had one major fault and that was he idled in front. so last year's bc with zenyatta coming out of the clouds wouldn't have suited him in my book but unfortunately we will never know.