Team Pletcher: Version 2011

re: Team Pletcher: Version 2011

Forbidden Apple — Thu, 09 Dec 2010 00:38:16 GMT

Chris y,

Please tell me what I have written that is completely incorrect. Can you list some older horses that Pletcher has trained in the last 10 years besides English Channel?Of course I meant horses. Have you ever made a mistake while typing? Just accept that not everyone in this world is impressed by every move team Pletcher makes.

re: Team Pletcher: Version 2011

Chris Y — Wed, 08 Dec 2010 01:09:19 GMT

Huh, no that prestigious U where I earned my degree doesn't understand benchmarks so they don't teach that.

Too bad they just teach statistical probabilities, the law of averages and concepts based in reality.

What does the percentage of trainers who aren't even in the running for Trainer of the Year have to do with your argument against John? More specifically what does Wayne or Bill's % now or even historically have to do with anything?

I'm not even suggesting that John should win it. I obviously prefer Todd. But to change historical data to say what if, face it you cannot take Zenyatta out of the equation because she is the major factor IN the equation. Sure he has had the least number of winners but he's had the lowest number of starters by more than HALF, 80 total.

What I dislike is people presenting arguments, slanting them and continuously trying to act like they have a particular insight when what they have is a particular prejudicial feeling towards certain trainers.

Forbidden Apple you're another who has made some so-called inside comments that have been proven incorrect and call into question your experience on the backside.

You say because you supposedly work on the backside that doesn't mean you know more than fans but then launch an attack on people who really are in the game and the fans as well. Okay if you say so.

You say you work with "horse" on the backside?

re: Team Pletcher: Version 2011

Mike Relva — Tue, 07 Dec 2010 22:16:06 GMT

BILLY'S EMPIRE

AFLEETALEXFOREVER only platform is a hatred for a horse that's a game changer. It's the same junk in every post. Tell me I'm wrong on this?

re: Team Pletcher: Version 2011

Billy's Empire — Tue, 07 Dec 2010 17:10:49 GMT

my post was in response to someone else's post that said Zenyatta and sherriff's should both win an eclipse award. I was just showing them why he should not and compared his percentage to some of the other's in training as a reference point. You ever heard of a benchmark?

re: Team Pletcher: Version 2011

tcc — Tue, 07 Dec 2010 00:01:43 GMT

Jason: additional possible's for CashCall Futurity.

Riveting Reason

Joy Boy

Road Ready

Crimson China

Awesome Patriot

Prayer For Relief

re: Team Pletcher: Version 2011

Chris Y — Mon, 06 Dec 2010 22:21:36 GMT

Billy Go back and read your original irrelevant post. THAT is my point of reference.

Lets say that John has the least amount of wins but also the least amount of starters?

You could quote percentages on ANY trainer without the top horses in their barn to make a point, anybody could do so for their favorite.

I never said anything about John winning it, maybe you should reference what I commented on about the negative remarks regarding Todd?

Actually though Jason, I remember a horse who won the BC Classic, then didn't win the HOY. I also remember a trainer who was the leading trainer and had the HOY who didn't win the Trainer of the Year so I guess you can never say never.

re: Team Pletcher: Version 2011

Billy's Empire — Mon, 06 Dec 2010 16:47:12 GMT

Chris Y. facts

16% winning percentage without Zenyatta

12 winners on the year, without Zenyatta.

Least amount of wins in top 90 trainers in country.

I could go on, but why. Give him the Eclipse award. Then team Z might win something and shut everyone up.

re: Team Pletcher: Version 2011

tcc — Mon, 06 Dec 2010 00:02:10 GMT

Forbidden Apple:

Out of the Cash Call Futurity possibles listed. These are the horses that might want to run a 1 1/4 at Kentucky Derby time.

Premier Pegasus

Clubhouse Ride

Rustler Hustler

Boxeur des Rues

Alcindor looks interesting,but just can't excited about Unbridled

Song's past a 1 1/8 early in their career. Not saying they can't go 1 1/4.

re: Team Pletcher: Version 2011

Coldfacts — Sun, 05 Dec 2010 14:28:54 GMT

2:24,

I do not recall the champions she has produced but I have no doubt about the correctness of your claim. What I am sure of is she did not foal the winner of a Triple Crown race.

These brillinat mares rarely produce the winners of TC races. Could Zenyatta be another Urban Sea? (Arc winner and Broodmare of the Year in England and Ireland, 2001; dam of the brilliant Sea The Star & Galileo) It's possible but I doubt it as our pre race medication policy does not favor mares that spend long periods on the track.

He are two questions for you. When was the last time a Kentucky Oaks winner produced The winner of a TC race? When was the last time a G1 winning mare produce a derby winner?

You are going to be surprised at the end of you research.

re: Team Pletcher: Version 2011

Forbidden Apple — Sun, 05 Dec 2010 12:57:01 GMT

Coldfacts,

When you use the word best, that is only an opinion, not a fact. According to your logic, Zenyatta should not be bred at all. I believe it does matter when choosing a mate for her and that she will be a fine broodmare(my opinion). I know that breeding a champion to a champion does not equal another champion. My point was that both Zenyatta and Einstein have somewhat unique pedigrees and that their offspring would be a pleasant combination. The idea of breeding her to A.P. Indy or Unbrideled Song would be uneventful to me.

Tcc,

Industry Leader was crying out for more distance in the Hollywood Prevue last out. I'll be looking for him in the winner's circle this time. Also look out for Alcindor in his next start, a very impressive winner last time out (even though he's an Unbridled Song colt). I believe he is being pointed to the Malibu.

re: Team Pletcher: Version 2011

tcc — Sun, 05 Dec 2010 00:02:03 GMT

Jason:

PS.

The CashCall Futurity is likely to have a large field. The list of candidates includes Comma to the Top, who won the Generous here on Nov. 27; Premier Pegasus and Industry Leader, the first two finishers in the Hollywood Prevue on Nov. 20; J P’s Gusto, who won the Del Mar Futurity and three other sprint stakes during the summer; as well as Rustler Hustler, Clubhouse Ride, High Level Jeff, Boxeur des Rues, and possibly Slammer Time, the winner of the California Cup Juvenile.

re: Team Pletcher: Version 2011

tcc — Sat, 04 Dec 2010 23:58:33 GMT

Jason: Little off subject of blog. Just some info.

INGLEWOOD, Calif.– Gourmet Dinner is likely to make his next start in the $750,000 CashCall Futurity at Hollywood Park on Dec. 18. The Grade 1 CashCall Futurity could be the first of several starts for the multiple stakes winner in Southern California this winter, trainer Steve Standridge said.

Gourmet Dinner won the $1 million Delta Jackpot Stakes at Delta Downs in Louisiana on Nov. 20 and is currently based with Standridge at Calder Race Course in Miami. Standridge said Gourmet Dinner is scheduled to have a workout on Friday, which will determine whether the colt is sent to California.

re: Team Pletcher: Version 2011

Mike Relva — Sat, 04 Dec 2010 23:22:36 GMT

RANAGULZION

Since you are always gaga over everything Pletcher does I'll make you a wager. The same one that I lost to you this year. If ANY of his horses wins the Derby next yr. will take another three months exile from this blog ONLY. But,this time You have to follow suit in the event I win. It's only fair you put something up this time around. BTW,if I owned a hundred horses and he would train them free,I still wouldn't use him.

re: Team Pletcher: Version 2011

2:24 — Sat, 04 Dec 2010 16:24:47 GMT

Coldfacts - Personal Ensign was a great broodmare.

re: Team Pletcher: Version 2011

Coldfacts — Sat, 04 Dec 2010 14:37:11 GMT

Forbidden Apple,

History has taught us that broodmares like Zenyatta do not produce champions. Check the entire list of great champion female that came off the track and you will realize that Zenyatt's prospect as a great broodmare is remote. It really does not matter to whom she is bred. The best broodmare are those unraced or lightly raced.

re: Team Pletcher: Version 2011

Coldfacts — Sat, 04 Dec 2010 14:18:58 GMT

Ranagulzion,

It is always a pleasure to match strides with you. I see your love affair with the Pletcher program continues. What exactly is his derby record that you are so proud of? I vaguely recall one win, two seconds from about 30 starters or more. Are you aware that some trainers are one from one? In the 2008 Derby the great one had 25% of the field and didn’t make the board. I highlight theses cold facts because you seem to give all the credit to the great one and have forgotten that horses make trainers and a lot of good horses have been ruined by trainers, the great one not excluded. The great one started four in 2010 and one hit the board. I still consider his fortune to be due to Ice Box’s misfortune. You mentioned subsequent to the derby that SS was a late improving sort who potentially could win the Triple Crown. I believe his best finish in a post derby race was 4th. He like many others from the Pletcher program was gone before his names could be remembers. The greatness that you have bestowed on MR. Pletcher is not validated by the number of wins to starters in the three most important races in a calendar year. Compare his record to Speedy Bob from CA and see who is greater in the big ones.

“You can forget about any unseasoned 2YO showing up as a 3YO without foundation trying to upset Mo”

By what measure have you made this determination? I provided you with a summary of the BCJ winner from CD and their placing in the derby. Street Sense was more impressive than Uncle Mo and he ended up wining one leg of the TC by a mere 2 lengths. Uncle Mo gallops like a grey hound when let down and that type of action could lead to shoulder problems in the long term. I will not be loosing any sleep over beating Uncle Mo as he is not the one for the 2011 derby. His immediate pedigree is nowhere on the derby chart and that chart does not admit intruders. Ask the brilliant fast Holy Bull?

On the subject of improvement, Mr. Pletcher 2YOs seems to come to hand much faster than those of other trainers. Are they placed on a fast path program? Super Saver’s brother ran 1:08.08 for 6F that was faster that the 1:09 recorded by Uncle Mo on his debut. Neither of those colts will win the 2011 derby as it is unlikely that they will improve significantly as 3YOs. They are already recording times consistent with older horses.

You mentioned To Honor and Serve a colt I think has the pedigree to be a top player in 2011. The Bold Ruler sire line is overdue for a derby win and this colt is from that line. Ice box came close to restoring honor to this line in 2010 and THAS is bred along the same cross. I think one of A P Indy’s sons or grandsons will be the sire of the 2011 derby winner. There will be no intruders as the derby chart rarely allows access to lines that are not represented.

re: Team Pletcher: Version 2011

Forbidden Apple — Sat, 04 Dec 2010 13:29:20 GMT

Householder,

I agree with you, Lure was brilliant, I was also a big fan of Paradise Creek and Da Hoss. It seems like a series of turf races with a bonus at the end of the 3 race series is in order. The triple crown races are entertaining, why not give us turf fans something to follow. I also believe more breeders and owners would consider turf sires and mares when developing their business plans if turf purses were increased. The B.C. Classic is $5 million and the B.C. Turf is $3 million.

Does anyone else have an opinion on Einstein breeding with Zenyatta?

re: Team Pletcher: Version 2011

Mike Relva — Sat, 04 Dec 2010 02:20:10 GMT

SKYFIRE

You know,the door swings both ways. I've read several of your posts where you slam certain connections and a certain horse and readers. Am I wrong? FYI,I'm not missing anything in my life, quite the opposite.

re: Team Pletcher: Version 2011

skyfire — Sat, 04 Dec 2010 01:54:08 GMT

Mike Relva,

Every post you seem need to insult and rip somebody -- so angry all the time! Wonder what you are missing in your life? How about sticking to observations without nastiness?

re: Team Pletcher: Version 2011

Leon — Sat, 04 Dec 2010 01:11:52 GMT

Mike Relva,

I did not know the HOTY award was supposed to go to the horse that was kept healthy for 3 yrs and almost retired undefeated. Thanks for "enlightning" me.

Householder,

Bias, schmias. I bet even Jason would have been praising them left and right had Zen's connections won any of the SoCal G1's vs males in 2010, and so would I.

C'mon guys, the message was sent to them loud & clear in last year's voting...

re: Team Pletcher: Version 2011

Householder — Sat, 04 Dec 2010 00:43:36 GMT

Forbidden Apple. Probably the best turf miler this county has ever seen...LURE. No HOY for him.

re: Team Pletcher: Version 2011

Chris Y — Sat, 04 Dec 2010 00:18:01 GMT

Which would have been fine if you had referenced THOSE people. We know who you have a thing against.

Not that your opinion really matters that much.

LOL yes please give me the facts.

re: Team Pletcher: Version 2011

Forbidden Apple — Fri, 03 Dec 2010 23:38:54 GMT

Leon,

I agree with most of what your opinion expresses. Although I find fault with your assumption that a female horse must beat males to be considered HOY. I have written many times that fillies and mares run for less money and get less respect than males. I have also written that turf horses get the same sort of shaft when they are evaluated. This sport has no real criteria for HOY voting, it's mainly based on opinion. Yes, Zenyatta did lose by a head to Blame, but I did view a photo of her in front of Blame just past the wire. Based on one race, I can not say that Blame was a better horse than Zenyatta.

Ranagulzion,

Please do not start acting like Uncle Mo is the next triple crown winner and one of the greatest horses of all time. You get caught up emotionally with every Pletcher horse in training. There are many soon to be 3 year old horses of high quality and ability. Did you read my earlier post on this blog? I look forward to many bullett workouts coming out of the Pletcher regime in the coming months.

JayJay,

Be patient my friend, the 2011 KY Derby preps are nearing and I expect many new names to hit the radar soon. I myself don't put a tremendous amount of merit into a horses 2 year old campaign. I was very impressed by More Than Real and also Winter Memories late finish in the B.C. juvenile f. turf.

re: Team Pletcher: Version 2011

Mike Relva — Fri, 03 Dec 2010 22:45:11 GMT

BILLY'S EMPIRE

You live in the fantasy of somehow convincing yourself your knowledge exceeds almost everyone,including those that's REALLY CONNECTED with racing. Whatever gets you thru the day,I guess!

re: Team Pletcher: Version 2011

Billy's Empire — Fri, 03 Dec 2010 21:53:17 GMT

Chris Y

"There are people bringing up trainers and their percentages who have NOTHING to do with this discussion. What does that have to do with this subject?"

I know you were referring to me. Good afternoon. I was just giving a few "facts" about why John Sheriff's should NOT win any award for trainer of the year. Sorry that was too hard for you to comprehend. Give the award to Rudy Rodriguez, Chad Brown, Bret Calhoun, Tom Proctor, John Sadler, Hollendorfer, any one of these trainer before Sherriff's.