Few Eclipse Awards Up For Debate

re: Few Eclipse Awards Up For Debate

sweettalker — Fri, 14 Jan 2011 02:44:39 GMT

What do we do with a horse who does NOT go to Dubai? I think the nod for the big one goes to Blame. He won the big one and had a great year. If Zen had won say the Clark over him then it may be different. He beat the greatest horse ever after all.

re: Few Eclipse Awards Up For Debate

Draynay — Tue, 04 Jan 2011 23:30:59 GMT

Uncle Mo has ALREADY done something Zenyatta could NEVER do. He beat males on dirt in a G1 race. Zenyatta tried and failed. Enough said.

re: Few Eclipse Awards Up For Debate

MonicaV — Tue, 28 Dec 2010 20:17:34 GMT

Bedazzled,

I don't see that that article was written by a "rabid Rachel Fan". I thought it was unbiased. I know how people feel who love Zenyatta. I know what that's like. You lose objectivity when you love a horse. Zen certainly was a great horse, there is no question and she will be rememberd that way. HOY means nothing really, why get upset over it?

re: Few Eclipse Awards Up For Debate

Bellwether — Tue, 21 Dec 2010 07:38:49 GMT

LIFE AT TEN???...DOUBLE SHOT...TEW BLACK EYE$ FORE "THE GREATEST GAME ON EARTH"..."THE HORSE"..."THE GAMBLER$"...ty...

re: Few Eclipse Awards Up For Debate

KautoStar — Mon, 20 Dec 2010 22:50:47 GMT

Ann,

Our Vic was retired at the end of last season at the age of 12. He retired sound, and I'm not sure but he may be a hunter now. He had a good last season, and won the Grade 2 Peter Marsh Chase as well as a couple of other races. Lovely horse!

re: Few Eclipse Awards Up For Debate

Bellwether — Mon, 20 Dec 2010 07:15:11 GMT

WHY KNOT GIVE ALEXXX BALLDROP ONE TOO???...ty...

re: Few Eclipse Awards Up For Debate

Sunny Farm — Mon, 20 Dec 2010 04:36:25 GMT

Very sad to hear of the passing of M.R.Don Engels. He was a very good & kind man and a real gentleman. Rest in peace Mr. Engels, I'll always remember you. If you ever had known or spoken to Don, the first thing you'd notice is his genuine ways and he spoke to people as a friend & took time for them.I'll miss him.

On a very happy note, Wow, Congratulations Mr. Pete Miller, what a good racing season you've had ! You go, Bald Beagle ! I hope you do get COMMA TO THE TOP to the KY.Derby

p.s. You said it ; Sodapopkid !

I can count the truly great horses in my lifetime on one hand, and ZENYATTA is one of them.WHAT a thrill she gave us ! Her fan club is really something & fun to read. There is re-newed interest in racing & horses, youngsters & people of all ages. The Z- website is taking the time to welcome them all & answering a lot of questions about horses as well as ZENYATTA. I think we should give them all a round of applause for this.

One last thought: With the recent Breeders Cup changes to the "Win & your In", I hope to see a lot of people like Mr. Miller and other "small trainers" make it to the big leagues, that will be exciting because a good horse can come from anywhere & the new changes will help everyone work hard towards this goal.Who knows, maybe COMMA TO THE TOP will win a B.C. W.C. race , if he is nominated.

re: Few Eclipse Awards Up For Debate

Michelle — Mon, 20 Dec 2010 03:36:34 GMT

Things that make you go Hmmmm.....

2002 Horse of the Year - Azeri (Filly/Mare)

At Four (2002)

1st. Breeders' Cup Distaff, G1

1st. Santa Margarita Invitational Handicap, G1

1st. Apple Blossom Handicap, G1

1st. Milady Breeders' Cup Handicap, G1

1st. Vanity Handicap, G1

1st. Clement L. Hirsch Handicap, G2

1st. Lady's Secret Breeders' Cup Handicap, G2

2nd. La Canada Stakes, G2

re: Few Eclipse Awards Up For Debate

Pedigree Ann — Sat, 18 Dec 2010 21:19:27 GMT

Thanks for the update, Kauto. My husband and I were in Cambridge for his sabbatical back in academic 2007/08 so I got to see all the 'chasing I wanted to on Racing UK and attheraces. Nothing like careers that last half a decade to inspire passionate fans. Another I was rather fond of was Our Vic; is he still running?

re: Few Eclipse Awards Up For Debate

KautoStar — Sat, 18 Dec 2010 01:20:12 GMT

Pedigree Ann,

Denman isn't retired, he recently ran in the Hennessy under top weight and came an honerable third. He's apparently now been put away until the Gold Cup in March though many people think he should tackle the Lexus Chase in December.

Most people, including his connections, believe he is recovered from his heart murmur, and his main issue now is his temperament, as has become stubborn and quirky.

It's sad and frustrating that Kauto and Denman never met each other on the top of their game; Kauto was not himself in 2008 and Denman was clearly not in top form in 2009. In 2010 Kauto fell and Denman didnt travel well. The jury is still and truly out on who the better chaser is (though my money is with Kauto).

re: Few Eclipse Awards Up For Debate

sodapopkid — Sat, 18 Dec 2010 00:47:46 GMT

Greybirdk, When you see another horse win 19 straight races being a closer at that, When you see this again in your lifetime, YOu please put down Zenyatta then, but until your fairytale comes true, We know it wont happen, So we dont bother to pay much attention to people who want to put down the best thing racing has seen in a long, long time. In your world if you cant give credit to a six year old mare being undefeated in three straight years then, you must also discredit all the other fillies/mares to. I dont know where some of you come from.

re: Few Eclipse Awards Up For Debate

Footlick — Fri, 17 Dec 2010 21:46:37 GMT

Pedigree Ann- Thanks for the info on Fairyhouse and all the other info you communicate.

re: Few Eclipse Awards Up For Debate

Footlick — Fri, 17 Dec 2010 21:45:35 GMT

KautoStar- he only had two other races after beating Sariska this year, I think. And he was in great position for the Arc when he got eliminated because of interference. He ran in one weak race this year, I think. Midday is a wonderful filly. I have no fault with her. I just feel Sariska was stronger. My understanding about Sariska not running in the Arc last year was that the ground wasn't soft enough to suit her trainer.

Thanks for the explaination of hurdles and chases. I've actually heard of Monet's garden, but I didn't know his age.

re: Few Eclipse Awards Up For Debate

Pedigree Ann — Fri, 17 Dec 2010 19:48:39 GMT

Kauto Star, my booby (that's a Star Wars reference), you must know that I was a Denman fan. Loved that freight-train (goods-train) bowling along in front. Is he retired for good now? So sad his health didn't stand up for more seasons; it would have been a rivalry for the ages.

Fairyhouse is in County Meath, Ireland, Footlick. It was founded in 1848 and is the home of the Irish Grand National. Love Wikipedia.

re: Few Eclipse Awards Up For Debate

Mike Relva — Fri, 17 Dec 2010 04:15:02 GMT

SARA

Please get back to me when another horse that goes 19-1 comes along. When will that be? One year,five,twenty,forty? Oh,that's right it happens every day,doesn't it? What was I thinking? Just sayin'

re: Few Eclipse Awards Up For Debate

Mike Relva — Fri, 17 Dec 2010 04:09:35 GMT

GREYBIRDK

Proviso winning? Yeah,good luck with that. lol

re: Few Eclipse Awards Up For Debate

Sunny Farm — Fri, 17 Dec 2010 04:01:11 GMT

MIDWAY SUE : I don't think it is a matter of bashing Todd Pletcher, "Because we ZENYATTA Fans love John Sherriff"

Millions of people, new fans and old,saw on television , a mare un-fit to race and staggering , and she was not scratched by the trainer-which IS his responsibility.

Millions were lost on betting

LIFE AT TEN, so what is to like or be thrilled about ?

You can absolutely love ZENYATTA and still be opposed to the handling of LIFE AT TEN., and therefore not to think a trainer who does this, should be Trainer of the year for 2010, just on the amount of monies won.

There are a LOT of fans out there who have been fans for many years and they say the same thing I have said.

Hard-core fans and they love ZENYATTA,respect John Sherriffs, but this does not negate what they think just because they do.

re: Few Eclipse Awards Up For Debate

KautoStar — Thu, 16 Dec 2010 23:39:53 GMT

Footlick, yes she did, but his subsequent exploits were not fantastic, and I think the Midday in the Nassau and Yorkshire Oaks would have had too much pace for the pair of them. The picture was always unclear to me about both mares' favoured ground: Michael Bell always said he didn't want it to firm for Sariska, hence why she didn't run on the 09 Arc, and she handled heavy ground brilliantly in the Irish Oaks. Henry Cecil stated that Midday didn't handle the soft ground then, and she clearly handled the firm turf at Santa Anita fine, but he definitely said she didn't appreciate the fast York ground. So I really don't know to be honest. I think both showed their best form with a little bit of cut, but could handle faster ground. Also, in the Middleton Stakes Midday was giving Sariska 5 lbs.

Fairyhouse is an Irish jumps course, and hosts the Irish Grand National. National Hunt actually includes two categories: hurdling and chasing. In chasing, the obstacles are more fence like, and tend to be closer to 5 feet high. There are also open ditches and water jumps, and the races range from 2 to 4.5 miles long, whereas hurdle races are shorter. Many NH start over hurdles and then progress to fences as they mature.

Not all chasers start as young as Kauto Star, but French breds seem to mature faster and so start racing earlier than their British and Irish rivals. Many of the latter horses don't see a race track until age 5, and continue to mature until 7 or 8. So a French racehorse may races from ages 3/4 to 9/10 (they are often said to decline earlier, so far Kauto is an exception and is holding his form well), whilst a British/Irish horse may race from age 5 to age 12. There's a fantastic front running grey named Monet's Garden (spectacular jumper) who will be 13 in January and is still thrashing top class horses half his age!

Considering I live very close to Newmarket (HQ for British flatracing) I don't actually attend the races very often. I will be going to Kempton on Boxing Day to see Kauto and possibly to the Cheltenham Festival in March. Thanks for the well wishes, I'm starting to get nervous as D-Day looms!

re: Few Eclipse Awards Up For Debate

MonicaV — Thu, 16 Dec 2010 20:25:23 GMT

MidwaySue,

Wonderful post. Yes, some of the Z fans are a little fanatical and make rash statements about racing going down the tubes if Z doesn't win HOY. People will be upset if she doesn't win and will never go to another race. I'd hate to think that is true. If you love this sport, you will always support it. Yes, Z definitely brought attention to the sport but so did Smarty Jones who had a whole nation behind him during his triple crown bid. The movie, "Seabiscuit" was a tremendous boon to horse racing but it didn't win best picture. Nobody cared. Zenyatta does not need HOY although I think she will win. It won't make one bit of difference to her career. She is a superstar and will be in the HOF. HOY is a trophy that sits on the mantle. Horse racing doesn't really need fans who only care about one horse. When that horse retires they leave the sport. We need fans who love them all and hang around for years. I have been following racing for 45 years and not once have I ever stopped following racing because a horse I loved didn't get HOY. It just doesn't matter. Wait, it does matter to a stallion career but Mares, especially one who is privately owned doesn't need that trophy for anything. Z has done enough and will be long remembered and honored. May she have a great life on the farm and produce some wonderful babies.

re: Few Eclipse Awards Up For Debate

Greybirdk — Thu, 16 Dec 2010 17:04:57 GMT

Jason, don't you understand that if you don't worship Zenyatta and say even one word against anyone who has ever drawn breath in her Holy Presence, it means you are a Kenyan-born socialist?? "East Coast bias" is just as dumb as "liberal media". Please folks, never tell any Kentucky native that they have anything in common with the elitist East Coast. You might get shot!

Wish Proviso would win this year. Hope Blame does. Zenyatta is a great one and she didn't lose by much, but lose she did. Her humans bet on the same tame campaign as last year once they saw Rachel Alexandra wasn't a threat to them, and then they blew the big race. Sorry, but that's they way it goes in racing, as opposed to Pweddie Widdle Horsie Land.

re: Few Eclipse Awards Up For Debate

Footlick — Thu, 16 Dec 2010 14:05:18 GMT

KautoStar- by the way, where in England is the Fairyhouse course that they are running the hurdles(?) right now? I've never followed hurdles that closely, so I have never heard of that course before. I hope your namesake runs well in the King George. It is just a monumental feat that he is attempting. It is interesting that hurdlers run at such advanced ages. Do any ever go on to the hut meets or the 3-day events if they retire?

re: Few Eclipse Awards Up For Debate

Footlick — Thu, 16 Dec 2010 03:01:51 GMT

KautoStar- Sariska ran favorably well against Fame and Glory. Didn't she run against him at 3 and 4? Midday certainly could have been compromised by the ground, but I've never thought of her as competitive with Fame and Glory. And I thought Sariska was always considered better on soft ground, so wouldn't she have been equally compromised by the ground as Midday? I could be wrong on the ground part for Sariska though. But Midday beat Stacelita when she was a bit impeded in her race against her and I don't think Stacelita was quite the horse Sariska was.

re: Few Eclipse Awards Up For Debate

KautoStar — Wed, 15 Dec 2010 18:25:11 GMT

Footlick, I have to admit I was never as impressed by Sariska as some; her facile Irish Oaks win came on hideous ground that Midday plainly didn't act on, and I think the latter could have beaten her in the Epsom Oaks if not barged about in the final furlongs. Other than that, she seemed somewhat hyped by Michael Bell. I think Midday would have had her measure this year, even before her behavioural quirks emerged (Midday didn't appreciate the very fast ground at York, she was badly jarred up).

mz, I sincerely hope so! He will be 11 by then, and has been on the go since he was a 3 year old in France, but if he's still enthusiastic and in good form then his connections won't pull the plug just yet. But if he regains the Cheltenham Gold Cup again, some have suggested he may be retired at the end of this season. Otherwise I think he'll try and win the King George VI Chase for the sixth time then bow out.

I think Voodoo Prince has been described as somewhat backwards, and has apparently has sore shins, so may be a while before he sees the race course. I haven't heard much about her Monsun foal, but I heard her Galileo filly looks really good.

re: Few Eclipse Awards Up For Debate

T smith — Wed, 15 Dec 2010 14:28:49 GMT

What a bunch of BABIES.

Seriously who doesnt love Zenyatta. Come on 19 in a row. Heartbreaking finish. What a story. She was GREAT! And there will be another GREAT. Maybe Mo, Maybe 2013, Maybe 2015. Just love Racing and quit acting like Babies.

re: Few Eclipse Awards Up For Debate

stevebiscuit — Wed, 15 Dec 2010 08:19:32 GMT

A day after Blame scored his first grade 1, not just of the year but of his career, Zenyatta had accumulated 3. Twice she spotted the field double digit lbs, and the other time she won a race that even the Horse of the Year wouldn't enter. She shattered Citation's record for consecutive wins, a record that Cigar won HOTY just for matching, broke the filly/mare earnings record, consecutive grade 1s record, grade 1s won by any filly, and broke Eclipse's record of 18-0. Any horse that can outdo the namesake of the Eclipse Awards should be HOTY. What did Blame do this year? He ran down an injured Battle Plan to win the Foster on his home turf, he beat a lethargic/past his prime/last place finisher in the Classic Quality Road while getting 5 lbs, he them was soundly beaten by second to last place finisher Haynesfield, and finally he beat Zenyatta while running once again on his home turf, on a surface Zenyatta didn't take to, while getting a perfect trip and just hanging on to beat a 6 year old mare who was stopped several times in the turn. Everyone likes to dismiss Zenyatta's wins because they were won in her own backyard. It's a double edged sword. Blame won the Classic on a surface that is as biased as the synthetic surfaces. The only horses who win over it are horses who like it. Zenyatta didn't like it and yet her class almost carried her to victory anyway. Blame's effort will only be remembered in the same light as Dark Star's victory over Native Dancer, nothing more.

Zenyatta was the better horse and did more this year than Blame did in his entire career. She deserves HOTY hands down.