Curlin vs. Big Brown - Let the Countdown Begin

re: Curlin vs. Big Brown - Let the Countdown Begin

Brownfan — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 18:42:33 GMT

Thank you JordanA. It does look pretty sore. I'm sorry to see he won't be able to run but I'm glad he doesn't have a life threatening injury, and I know now he'll live a full and happy life at Three Chimneys. Selfish of me, but I sure would have liked to see him run...he was always a thrill to watch for me.

re: Curlin vs. Big Brown - Let the Countdown Begin

JordanA — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 17:46:58 GMT

Brownfan,

DRF.com

re: Curlin vs. Big Brown - Let the Countdown Begin

Bob B — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 16:52:02 GMT

Where do Canadians watch the Breeders Cup Races if they don't live near a racetrack with simulcasting?

re: Curlin vs. Big Brown - Let the Countdown Begin

Brownfan — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 03:46:37 GMT

Where have all of you seen the photos of Brown's injury? I haven't seen any photos of it.

re: Curlin vs. Big Brown - Let the Countdown Begin

MikeM — Wed, 15 Oct 2008 18:46:27 GMT

Wanda - After seeing that foot I too am shocked that they went on with him. What a shame. My respect for that horse has grown ten fold after seeing that... Back to Curlins work, I really feel that he is going to put on quite a show.I got goose bumps watching it and I think the surface might even move him up, if that's possible.

re: Curlin vs. Big Brown - Let the Countdown Begin

Wanda — Wed, 15 Oct 2008 17:30:47 GMT

MikeM: when he ran at Monmouth someone said it was dirt in his feet. I said that it couldn't be dirt cause it was right at the wire on turf. There's no way he would pack all that dirt in his feet while running. So I guess that he was patched when he ran that day and grabbed himself when he worked the other day. Shame on them for going on with him when they clearly should have quit on him. That bothers me to no end. I wouldn't do that to a cheap claimer. Then they are trying to say this injury has nothing to do with the quarter cracks. I disagree with that one. If the horse isn't 100% he's going to be travelling differint, so no wonder he grabbed himself.

That's the last time I'm going to comment on that cause I got it out of my system.

Your right about Curlin's work, he did it so easy.

re: Curlin vs. Big Brown - Let the Countdown Begin

JordanA — Wed, 15 Oct 2008 17:15:41 GMT

Mike,

I think we got a couple of pretty good explanations of it from two trainers. Maybe a farrier or vet but actually anybody who hasn't seen it in person probably couldn't give much more info than they already did.

I looked at some comparison pictures and truthfully if he pulled off the patch he pulled some fresh hoof with it. No way that colt could've run on a hoof patched that much, the cut on the heel was small but no picture of the frog or bottom of the foot. That's what the trainers I asked here said. Although they are only going by photos too.

re: Curlin vs. Big Brown - Let the Countdown Begin

MikeM — Wed, 15 Oct 2008 13:28:38 GMT

Curlins work over the synthetic suface was awesome. He looked like he absolutely loved it. I don't see how anyone can beat him in the Classic. I don't care who shows up.Also after seeing the picture of BB foot (side view) the actual part of his foot he grabed did not look that bad.However, the other part looked like an old patch broke loose and that was ugly. I'm certainly no expert but would like to hear the opinions of more experienced bloggers.

re: Curlin vs. Big Brown - Let the Countdown Begin

Paula Higgins — Tue, 14 Oct 2008 23:10:57 GMT

ATTHEBARN, thanks for your kind words. I love all animals (reptiles not so much) and this picture was painful to see. Dogs,cats and horses are at the top of my list of loves in life. I appreciate you taking the time to explain to me about his feet. It makes me feel better about his last two races. I agree they need to breed him with a mare that has feet like Ginger Rodgers and Fred Astaire combined. Well, here's hoping Curlin keeps his health and comes out of the BCC with flying colors.

re: Curlin vs. Big Brown - Let the Countdown Begin

Atthebarn2 — Tue, 14 Oct 2008 18:29:09 GMT

Paula, You are such a passionate fan of racing and the horse, too bad we don't have 15 million more just like you.

Now, on the foot deal. it was the right front inside, his original quarter crack was on the left front,outside, just over 1/2 an inch. The difference is the quarter crack happened because he has a thin hoof wall, it was not really a big deal except he was running for the Triple Crown. His hoof wall won't support a nail, like a regular shoe has, therefore his glue ons the small crack was patched. Not sure if you are aware but Cigar fought quarter cracks his whole career. Most people think of the colt in the Derby, Unbridled Song, his quarter was worse and he had to wear a bar shoe. Mike S said that's like running a foot race in combat boots.

What happened on the right was he grabbed it with the rear foot and ripped the piece of hoof off. This had nothing to do with his previous issues and what happened in the Belmont other than the fact that his thin hoofwall probably made it worse than it would have been for a horse with normal hoof walls. What happened in the Belmont was they patched a quarter crack, backed off on his training and affected his conditioning and mental status. IMHO (learned that from the handicappers). Like it was compared before, fixing a qc is like getting a tooth filled at the dentist, once it's fixed it's fine, the only real worry is a possible infection. The timing was bad for BB though, interrupted his training before the Belmont.

Trust me there was no way his hoof had anything close to that before the Belmont. Totally different kind of problem.

Horses grab themselves quite often for lots of reasons. A lot of hard tryers do that. I've seen some lacerate the leg really bad from that. Seen barrel racing horses do it, pull half their foot off literally or go down when the shoe didn't come off.

As far as the bell boots, they showed a picture with him wearing them, not sure if it's old or the day of. We kind of talked about it and if he grabbed the bottom of the hoof, pulled off the glued on shoe and the hoof came with it, then a bell boot wouldn't have helped. Be interesting to see if a video done, course they didn't notice it till after so not sure how long the turf is if it would've been noticeable but a tear that big would have to have been a pretty decent grab, but on a horse with hoofwalls as thin as his must be, might not have been noticed in his action. Now they just have to watch for infection, the hoof will heal and he should be fine but he will have these issues forever. Summer time he would've healed faster but he'll be fine by the time he starts stud duty, barring any more of these types of things.

I have to say that I felt bad for Mike Iavarone. He was humble and obviously very upset, in addition to his attachment to the horse he had an incentive set for winning the BCC and he wants to enhance his partnership, therefore racing with the proceeds.

Also Mr. Jackson was very kind. Rick, well, he was just being Rick. A little more humble, still kind of talking off the top of his head and one statement had me going 'huh?', but it's just too bad for the fans of the horse and the horse himself both of whom put up with a lot.

IMO he wouldn't have matched up with the others in the race and even Rick said that he wasn't sure he'd run like before but was training well.

Now we all know that even though he's gained an iota of humility he would've been full of bluster if he thought the colt could've handled the others easy, he just said that after the JCGC.

Now the big dilemma will come in the breeding shed and who will have the mares that match up and will have the genes dominant to not have bad feet/hooves handed down to his progeny, like his poppa handed down to him.

re: Curlin vs. Big Brown - Let the Countdown Begin

HaleyB — Tue, 14 Oct 2008 13:07:35 GMT

I believe that Big Brown is a GREAT horse and that is how I chose to remember his career. His connections may not be the best but the horse has heart and courage. I was so looking forward to the BC and the Curlin match-up. For me it is let the best horse of the race win. It's too bad that Big Brown won't have the chance to at least give it one last shot. Now my prayer for him is that he heals well and will be very happy making "little" Big Browns.

re: Curlin vs. Big Brown - Let the Countdown Begin

Paula Higgins — Tue, 14 Oct 2008 03:41:26 GMT

I just saw a picture of that hoof and what an absolute mess!!! People on another site said it was a glue patch that fell off, and not the NEW disaster BB connections said it was. However, whether that is true or not his foot looks like absolute crap. I would NEVER try and run a horse with a foot like that, whether it's an old crack(s) they were trying to patch together or it was new damage. CLearly, this is a horse with SERIOUS foot problems and he probably shouldn't have been running in his past few races. I think this horse was fantastic to give all that he gave and win what he did with such GOD awful feet. He has a ton of heart. He should have been retired after the Preakness (whoever said that is ABSOLUTELY right). He never should have run in the Belmont. I am sorry for ranting but if this was a human, they would be off that foot for a good long time and they sure wouldn't be running any races.

re: Curlin vs. Big Brown - Let the Countdown Begin

Paula Higgins — Tue, 14 Oct 2008 03:20:18 GMT

To those of you who said BB wouldn't make it-you were absolutely right. I think his foot is toast and the reason is real. I am sorry for everyone who wanted to see him run but most of all, I am sorry for BB. Here's hoping he goes off to stud after his foot heals and he lives a long and happy life. Whether he would have actually made it to the BCC with or without the foot injury is the million dollar question. As for Rick Dutrow having a major impact on this sport in terms of viewership, I don't agree. He isn't on most people's radar, especially the casual viewer's. I do think the death of Eight Belles was not good for viewership and put the average fan off for a while. I expect it to rebound next year. Let's hope Curlin likes the Pro-Ride. I still think it will be a great BCC and I am looking forward to it.

re: Curlin vs. Big Brown - Let the Countdown Begin

Whatamidoing — Mon, 13 Oct 2008 22:48:38 GMT

His foot is bad, not the worst I've seen but bad enough to take a month or more to heal. He's got thin hoofwalls and Rick has been dealing with this since he got him. He's going to have those issues forever. Let's hope he doesn't pass it on to his progeny. Someone brought up why wasn't he run in bell boots. Good question but it could've just postponed the inevitable. Who knows why horses grab themselves? Lots of reasons, overstriding, rear hoof's too long (even just a bit can make a difference), just a fluke. BB's problem is his thin hoofwall. What's a shame about BB is that it turned into more about the connections than the colt. People talk about past connections loving the publicity and wanting to be in front of the cameras etc. Nothing has ever compared to this because it turned into something ugly. Rick's comments before the Derby were okay, it was after that when he stepped over the line.

I just hope we get a great horse with connections that endear themselves to people rather than alienate fans and colleagues alike.

re: Curlin vs. Big Brown - Let the Countdown Begin

MikeM — Mon, 13 Oct 2008 21:48:12 GMT

They were living on borrowed time with BB. They were trying to get him to the BC in one piece but in the end something got him.He was never the same horse after the Preakness. In the end his numerous quarter cracks(I think Dutrow said five) was just to much to overcome.

re: Curlin vs. Big Brown - Let the Countdown Begin

Mike S — Mon, 13 Oct 2008 19:31:30 GMT

OK...I have to eat a little crow now...I saw the picture of BIG BROWN's foot. So he actually is injured. I'm sorry that he's injured. I like the horse. I just don't like his connections, and I assumed, due to the poor sportsmanship in the last few months, that they were making up this injury. They're not. I apologize. BIG BROWN is an excellent racehorse.

re: Curlin vs. Big Brown - Let the Countdown Begin

Mike S — Mon, 13 Oct 2008 19:16:13 GMT

What? BIG BROWN isn't coming to the Breeders Cup? You don't say! I'm shocked.

OK, seriously, I think all of us knew, after the Belmont, that we would not see BIG BROWN in the BC Classic. Nice timing for drop-out, too, a day before entries are taken and fees need to be paid. IEAH handled BIG BROWN in a very unsportsman-like fashion, dodging competition, having easy races "created" for them (something I've never seen), and now dodging competition again. BIG BROWN is a very good horse. He's not "great." In fact, he is nowhere near "great."

I am very sorry that I will not be able to see COLONEL JOHN get his shot to even the score with BIG BROWN. I'm also sorry I won't get the chance to see CURLIN beat BIG BROWN as well. It's very chicken-hearted to handle a horse in the manner that IEAH and Dutrow have handled BIG BROWN and, once again, they're not fooling anyone.

re: Curlin vs. Big Brown - Let the Countdown Begin

InTheMountains — Mon, 13 Oct 2008 17:24:38 GMT

I've been reading these blogs for a really long time. As a partner in race horses I was very interested to see the take on BB. Right after the Belmont a bunch of the posters said BB was done. Wanda, Monica, BIGHORSEFAN,Bradgm and JordanA were the leaders in that theory. With Draynay telling them they were all crazy. Then when the trainers started saying it I really listened because, having been around the race track as an owner, I know that most of them know exactly what is going on in a given camp at all times and gossip is rampant on the track. Injury, no injury this colt wouldn't have run. Too many awesome competitors. My thinking is it wasn't Curlin who scared them off, it's the other three year olds including Casino Drive. One thing to get beaten by Curlin, just a lot of crow to eat. Something different to get beat by other 3 year olds, one which was dismissed as a lightweight by Dutrow, the mouth. To me the guy who did more to harm racing in the last 6 months than any other single thing or person has in the last decade.

re: Curlin vs. Big Brown - Let the Countdown Begin

KC — Mon, 13 Oct 2008 16:11:59 GMT

I don't think they were ever really planning on running Big Brown in the BC to begin with, especially after Curlin decided to go.

re: Curlin vs. Big Brown - Let the Countdown Begin

shane — Mon, 13 Oct 2008 15:39:08 GMT

Well we all figured that BB would not go against Curlin. I dont care what the excuse is. We all knew they would not do it. He should have retired after the belmont.

re: Curlin vs. Big Brown - Let the Countdown Begin

Mon, 13 Oct 2008 15:19:19 GMT

Dutrow, Pompa, and the entire Big Brown Camp are a joke. This includes anyone who had the nerve to even mention Big Brown in the same sentence as Curlin. Guess they got word that Curlin was able to handle polytrack just fine. Scared are we? Maybe just inferior. Curlin horse of the year. Good night.

re: Curlin vs. Big Brown - Let the Countdown Begin

Monica V — Mon, 13 Oct 2008 15:03:34 GMT

Just heard Big Brown is out. I'm not surprised by this. I was just wondering when it would happen. It was just a matter of time.

re: Curlin vs. Big Brown - Let the Countdown Begin

MikeM — Mon, 13 Oct 2008 14:59:57 GMT

Big Brown out of breeders cup. His shoes must have fallen off during his workout. Who's ducking who now?

What a bunch of BS.

re: Curlin vs. Big Brown - Let the Countdown Begin

MonicaV — Sat, 11 Oct 2008 20:58:37 GMT

I would love that, Wanda! Hope you do win. I've been trying down here to win as well. Say, if we both win, let's get together with Brad and buy us a horse!

re: Curlin vs. Big Brown - Let the Countdown Begin

Wanda — Sat, 11 Oct 2008 16:05:23 GMT

MonicaV: Thanks and please give us the down low on the whole thing when you can. I'd love to hear about it first hand. Bought a lottery ticket for today so I can come to BC and meet you all in person if I win!