Divisional Rankings

re: Divisional Rankings

Slew — Sun, 25 Sep 2011 00:08:21 GMT

Who: I have always been a Zen AND and RA fan. But the comments you made were pure fiction, and you really should read more.

RA beat older males in the Woodward when she was 3. That race took so much out of her (and the competition), none were ever the same again.

Zen had a great record...but you should really look at the unbelievable records of Man O War (20 for 21)..major G1 stakes, and Citation (27 for 29) including the Triple Crown and multiple G1 stakes. There have been so many great heroes in our sport, Secretariat, Slew, Affirmed, Cigar, even Curlin,it's unfair to claim that Zen outshines them all.

And to others, it's extremely rude and unfair to denigrate the accomplishments of Zenyatta or Rachel Alexandra just because you have some personal burr under your own egos.

Again, I must say...it's 2011. Can we please discuss today's BC hopefuls instead of rehashing stale arguments that are simply a waste of space.

re: Divisional Rankings

Lorrie — Fri, 23 Sep 2011 05:19:57 GMT

The reason we're still in the Zenyatta/Blame debate is because there is no exciting talent around this year. So many have had interrupted preps this year with injuries. No sooner does one become a standout than they retire injured. Why do we have so many injuries?

Don't short change the Euros. If So You Think runs in the Classic (which seems unlikely if he's running in the Arc) he will, as Zaskar13 says "crush" them. Dirt won't be the problem but the fickle CD weather might do him in. He could run in the turf mile and ruin Goldikova's party as he can run and win over a mile to a mile and a half. The constitutions of the European horses is so much stronger than ours. Time to phase out the Lasix and give our horses a chance to race a bit longer before they're retired.

Will Blame be remembered as Zenyatta will be? Yes, but only as the horse who beat the Queen.

re: Divisional Rankings

Your Only Friend — Tue, 20 Sep 2011 16:36:53 GMT

Debate all you want on who is in and out of Breeders Cup and who will win.........TOO WIN GOTTA BRING YOUR "A" GAME ON THAT DAY OF RACING. Not only good trip but lot of luck.

re: Divisional Rankings

John from Seattle — Sun, 18 Sep 2011 16:00:01 GMT

Laz,

It might or might not be the issue of attendance. Santa Anita averages about 45,000-48,000 for the Friday card and 55,000-58,000 for the Saturday card.

There was even talk earlier this year about Del Mar hosting the event. I think DM is busting at the seams with 45,000 on their opening days. Management did say they can make adjustments to accommadate an additional 10,000-15,000.

Also, I've been at Del Mar in November in the early 80s for an experimental meet for harness races. This coastal town is basically empty of any tourists and shrouded in fog, cold, and misty clouds from the Pacific. It is downright bleak. It has all the appeal of Skagway, Alaska in early November.

re: Divisional Rankings

Zaskar13 — Sun, 18 Sep 2011 12:38:03 GMT

Write all you want in the Older Male category - England's (via Australia) SO YOYU THINK will crush them all in the BC Classic.

re: Divisional Rankings

Draynay — Sat, 17 Sep 2011 22:15:37 GMT

LAL got whipped by the restricted State Poly Champion and Blame ? Huh ? Blame whipped them BOTH end of story. By the way WINTER MEMORIES....wow

re: Divisional Rankings

Racingfan — Sat, 17 Sep 2011 14:19:20 GMT

Jason, not surprisingly the point of the comment was lost on you while you looked for some small detail to dispute.... Sylvester-it's not the fact that perhaps Jason doesn't mention her "first" that I was making - it's the fact that it appears nobody can express an appreciation of her without a sarcastic response that I was referring to. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I just don't understand the attitude when we express ours....?

re: Divisional Rankings

Ally Sheba — Sat, 17 Sep 2011 04:33:11 GMT

Lookin At Lucky didn't run in the Travers because he got sick, if I remember correctly. Otherwise he would have, but it doesn't matter anyways because he got whooped by Zenyatta and Blame in the Classic so he wouldn't have won HOY even if he had won the Travers.

re: Divisional Rankings

LAZMANNICK — Sat, 17 Sep 2011 03:42:13 GMT

I assume that Saratoga would be out as a BC Site because of their inability to conduct mile and 1-1/16 mile main track races. Also possibly because they are incapable of holding 70,000 people (I believe). I wouldn't think it would be because of the weather. In '96 the BC was held in Toronto with similar type weather that time of year. It turned out that the weather couldn't be better.

re: Divisional Rankings

barryaksarben — Sat, 17 Sep 2011 00:13:34 GMT

Ruffian then zenyatta in my book but I have enjoyed RA ,Blind Luck Goldy, Ashado, Rags and all the exciting females I've been able to see run. It's the guys that haven't moved me as much as when we had Alydar, Slew, Forego, John Henry - some have been good -just not legends. The girls have been eaten their oats.

re: Divisional Rankings

Jason Shandler — Fri, 16 Sep 2011 23:34:06 GMT

John: You're obviously not equipped to have an intelligent debate if you're asking why Saratoga has never hosted a Breeders' Cup. I'm sorry I wasted my time.

re: Divisional Rankings

John from Seattle — Fri, 16 Sep 2011 23:07:36 GMT

And Jason,

We're not talking about the 2010 BC Classic.

We're talking about what racehorse was crowned the 2010 Horse of the Year.

re: Divisional Rankings

John from Seattle — Fri, 16 Sep 2011 23:05:06 GMT

Jason,

Then why did the Breeders' Cup completely ignore New York's tracks. Again.

Or are you East Coast guys still bitter over it.

And why hasn't Saratoga never, ever hosted the BC?

re: Divisional Rankings

LAZMANNICK — Fri, 16 Sep 2011 20:51:53 GMT

I know one of the best horses in history that never raced at Saratoga.

re: Divisional Rankings

LAZMANNICK — Fri, 16 Sep 2011 20:22:26 GMT

I agree with you. If the Haskell is such an important race than why did Kiaran McLaughlin say that he would skip the Haskell and TRAIN rattlesnake Bridge up to the Travers? Seems that by doing that he missed a million dollar payday as he was second in the Travers and all those Haskell horses were out of sight behind him.

Sylvester……I think that your sour grapes crap about Zen not beating a G1 horse in 2010 is getting kind of nauseating. She lost a 10F race by a diminishing head to a good horse that basically dominated the handicap males. In doing that she was many lengths better than the nation’s top three year olds and top handicap horses, many of whom naysayers like you still talk more highly of than her.

AAF. I always like a good comedy sketch on a Friday afternoon. It kind of makes my weekend go better. Dig into your files and give us some more. In this day and age we could all use a good laugh.

re: Divisional Rankings

Jason Shandler — Fri, 16 Sep 2011 20:18:26 GMT

John: Here's a Newsflash: New York racing matters in the context of history. There is a reason that Saratoga is the best racetrack in the country--the best horses race there.

She lost. Get over it.

re: Divisional Rankings

Shutterbug — Fri, 16 Sep 2011 19:56:07 GMT

Ally Sheba is making some refreshing and much needed points around here.

2:24, winning both the Preakness and Haskell didn't even get Lookin at Lucky considertion for HOtY. I believe Raitch got extra credit for being a girl, jmo. Ask Any Given Saturday how much it meant to win the Haskell. He will never be considered in the same class with Street Sense, Hard Spun, Curlin.

re: Divisional Rankings

oso7 — Fri, 16 Sep 2011 19:39:04 GMT

AAF: "See everything that you speak of in terms of Zenyatta is Female this or female that, Rachel after her 3rd win against males transcended gender on the track, she was simply the best horse running. So make the comparison, Zenyatta the best female in the west, certainly not the best horse overall, as she wouldn’t take on males in the top races in the west. Rachel the top horse in America Period in 2009. Glad we could clear that up, that wasn’t hard now was it.

AfleetAlexForever 16 Sep 2011 1:38 PM

I know one thing which must be hard for you, AAF. Having Larry Jones say HDG would compare to Zenyatta one day. Ah, where was the comparison to RA? Not there. HDG is doing extremely well this year but she is light-years away from accomplishing what Zenyatta did. She's going to need a lot more than 2-G1 wins to even start a discussion of what might transpire for her as she progresses. And, we both know, it would take her another 2 years of running and winning a BC race before she could even be mentioned in the same breath as the great mare. Good luck with that ever happening.

re: Divisional Rankings

oso7 — Fri, 16 Sep 2011 19:30:44 GMT

Good idea about the Let It Ride remake Trackjack. I'll play the guy with the fistfulls of cash that keeps saying, "She lost. Get over it."

Jason Shandler 16 Sep 2011 10:42 AM

I will too. The proposed movie will need some comic relief.

re: Divisional Rankings

John from Seattle — Fri, 16 Sep 2011 19:26:02 GMT

Slyvester,

Never raced at Saratoga or Belmont? What? After I read that I gave up.

Your East Coast bias has really blinded you.

But think of this, though. Ruffian never raced east of Buffalo, NY and Personal Ensign raced once outside of New York and beat just two males in one race - neither of them doing much going in the race.

re: Divisional Rankings

2:24 — Fri, 16 Sep 2011 19:17:25 GMT

Ally Sheba - So Lookin' at Lucky's victory in the Haskell meant nothing because he didn't run in the Travers? Come on. Nothing personal, but your logic is faulty. Sorry. The Haskell is a race that stands on its own, much Like the Kentucky Oaks, Preakness, Mother Goose, and Woodward.

re: Divisional Rankings

NASCAR PRO — Fri, 16 Sep 2011 18:55:35 GMT

RA beat mostly 3yos in her HOY campaign.When she turned 4 she couldnt compete confirming that fact.So she won some races with small fields by 10 or more.Jess Jackson bought her at the right time because that was as good as she was.Zenyatta 20 races 19 wins 1 2nd,no other horse has this type of record in graded races nowadays.You can editorialize all you want with all the astericks you like but 10 years from now she will be remembered as one of the best period.

re: Divisional Rankings

Ally Sheba — Fri, 16 Sep 2011 18:28:50 GMT

2:24, the Haskell IS a prep race for the Travers. A horse wins that race or does well in it, they go on to the Travers. It has no significance as a race on its own unless the winner backs it up with a Travers win. Is Coil the #1 3-year-old right now because he won the Haskell? How did him and the 2nd place finisher Shackleford do in the Travers? Winning the Haskell proves nothing if it can't be backed up.

re: Divisional Rankings

Sylvester — Fri, 16 Sep 2011 17:50:37 GMT

Seattle, Let me count the asterisks:

1. Raced exclusively in CA except for three races

2. One race outside of CA she lost.

3. Raced on synthetic surfaces 16 races.

4. One of the races on real dirt, she lost.

5. Not one race in 2010 she won had a grade 1 winner

6. Never once raced at Saratoga or Belmont.

7. Only raced males twice.

8. One of the races against males, she lost.

I could go on.

9. Raced once at CD and lost.

re: Divisional Rankings

AfleetAlexForever — Fri, 16 Sep 2011 17:38:46 GMT

2:24 is right, maybe Rachel was expected to step up in company and go against, Allicansayiswow or Briecat or dawn after dawn or lethal heat or maybe Anabaa’s Creation, remember that optional claimer that the synthetic wonder defeated by a nose in a photo. For Zenyatta the photo finish was an amazing feat, barely running down a horse that won how many races 2 maybe for the career, we can stop with the posturing. Zenyatta did all that she was capable of doing and I applaud the Moss’s for the smoke and mirrors in Fooling the Naïve into thinking that it was some sort of feat to run down optional claimers 15 or 16 times in allowance races. I believe in quality of competition, and thankfully Jess jackson believed in the same thing. He placed her perfectly at the top echelon of horse racing’s elite, oh and did it on a surface that would actually continue to be run on. Not the plastic and rubber bands and wax/paper mache at Santa Anita.

And what we mean by asterisks is *Grade 1 wins on a surface that is currently nonexistent at the venue, any questions there, good. *Only horse EVER to get HOY votes without defeating 1 Grade 1 winner in a race in which she won. That one has to hurt.

See everything that you speak of in terms of Zenyatta is Female this or female that, Rachel after her 3rd win against males transcended gender on the track, she was simply the best horse running. So make the comparison, Zenyatta the best female in the west, certainly not the best horse overall, as she wouldn’t take on males in the top races in the west. Rachel the top horse in America Period in 2009. Glad we could clear that up, that wasn’t hard now was it.