My New Friend Big Brown

re: My New Friend Big Brown

LDP — Wed, 12 Nov 2008 01:47:27 GMT

Dray, it's not that hard to win a race that called a Grade 1, but has the competion of an allownence/grade 3 field. And honestly steroids do have an effect, they help a horse train better and longer, allowing them to stay focused on their work, allowing them to build up more muscle. Remember, even Dutrow the steroid he used was a drug to help the horses train better, and help their appitite. Well if i'm not mistaken, if you are able to train better, then your building more muscle than you would if you didn't take the steroids.

re: My New Friend Big Brown

Kitman — Tue, 11 Nov 2008 21:24:56 GMT

Draynay,

You need to venture to other sites and see what is being said. By legitimate media, not YOU. There's no proving anything to you. Do YOU know what he said, I read it in at least 25 different places that he said the other horses were NOTHING to worry about, they were a WEAK GROUP, IT WAS A FOREGONE CONCLUSION that the horse would WIN. He KNEW HIS HORSE and the others were NOTHING to worry about.

Are YOU a race track person, do YOU have a CLUE what was said? SEVERAL trainers of repute said the guy insulted other horses. IF you want to see that he INSULTED other TRAINERS go look that up TOO.

Right, steroids have no effect at all, everyone is banning them for the fun of it.

Yes he won the Haskell, against those SAME kind of WEAK horses his big mouth trainer was talking about.

The LAST THING a struggling industry needs is IDIOTS trying to sell it. YOUR favorite little horse is retired, go visit him, better yet send one of your champion mares to him.

Thank GOD Iavarone and his soon to be partners on Stardom Bound came to their senses and sent her to Bobby Frankel. (YOu know don't you that even Bobby tried to get Rick to cool his jets?)

re: My New Friend Big Brown

Draynay — Tue, 11 Nov 2008 19:51:46 GMT

Another thing Kitman: Using the steroid argument and trying to say Big Brown was not the same after Belmont is just plain wrong. His victory in the Haskell going away was impressive and only the second Derby winner to ever win the Haskell... ask Alysheba how hard it is. Second, his win against older multiple graded stakes winners on turf was very impressive and gave the Derby winner a win on turf as a 2 and 3 year old.... look up how many Derby winners have won on turf as a 2 and as a 3 year old.....

re: My New Friend Big Brown

Draynay — Tue, 11 Nov 2008 19:43:39 GMT

Kitman I am just tired of people putting words in Rick Dutrow's mouth. He did not call other horses garbage and never called them "nothing." He didn't fear the talent of any other horse and EVERYONE on the planet has talked about this being a weak class of 3 year old horses so all of you need to give it a rest. IMO

re: My New Friend Big Brown

Katsan — Tue, 11 Nov 2008 19:18:40 GMT

OOPs I meant R. DEE HUBBARD of course.

re: My New Friend Big Brown

Kitman — Tue, 11 Nov 2008 19:17:34 GMT

Draynay, I'm not who you asked but I can read between the lines, having many friends in the industry and don't think the guy you asked will answer, he already did. But I assume since you comment, that you are able to use a computer so you should google it.

Here are a few samples. Plus, HOW do YOU know what was being said to these guys on the backside? How do YOU know what he was blabbing about?

Dallas is a class guy, not given to outbursts like that and Nick finally having enough of it said Dutrow needed to call Soprano's psychologist.

I suggest you give this up. If it's the only way for you to focus on the horse or racing, sad for you.

Tuesday June 10, 2008 11:04AM; Updated: Tuesday June 10, 2008 11:06AM

Tim Layden > INSIDE HORSE RACING

The comment referenced in BIGHORSEFANS post, above

"Dutrow spoke likewise before the Belmont, calling the outcome "a foregone conclusion," and dismissed the opposition as a weak group.

Sidelines Kentucky Sports and Beyond.

“You win with class and you lose with class,” Carroll said. “I know some people think (Dutrow’s boasting) is refreshing or whatever. I don’t.”

“I feel bad for the horse, hopefully he’s fine,” said Carroll of Big Brown. “But the way (Dutrow) was talking, basically what he was saying is my horse is a POS and I knew he wasn’t. It just rubbed me the wrong way.”

Now you may not take him saying the other colts were a weak group, nothing to worry about(Seattle times)and it's a foregone conclusion as intimating or even saying the others are garbage, crap or a POS but the people who actually RUN RACE HORSES for A LIVING obviously did.

ADD to THAT the fact THAT NO ONE outside the game really knows what was said within the community and the whole argument is moot as far as us non participants are concerned.

Get OFF the SUBJECT once and for all. I think YOU ARE OBSESSED and Dutow might even be concerned about your stalker mentality.

re: My New Friend Big Brown

Katsan — Tue, 11 Nov 2008 18:40:56 GMT

Wanda, The funny thing is Zia only has a capacity of 4,000. But RD was there along with his partner John Jones, two of the biggest players in racing, TB or QH.

barb, I also heard Bray's comment. But loved it when Frankie told him rather rudely, the others needed to go to her when Bray made his comment about big fish in a small pond and then Frankie also said why does she need to go ANYWHERE, running at big purses like she is. Ken backed him up on that. She's won around a million $ running in NM where her true fans can watch her. Also some of the biggest in racing have said it's an amazing feat.

re: My New Friend Big Brown

Wanda — Tue, 11 Nov 2008 18:00:49 GMT

Opps sorry should have said that you know who went over to Hammer Time not Five Cross Files.

re: My New Friend Big Brown

Wanda — Tue, 11 Nov 2008 17:24:40 GMT

No worrys Atthebarn it's just a figure of speech meaning I get your point of view.

Katsan glad you got to see her run she must draw the crowds eh?

I think somebody went over to Five Cross Files and is promoting over there now. Oh well another day in paradice!

re: My New Friend Big Brown

Dalziel — Tue, 11 Nov 2008 16:12:02 GMT

On the BB subject, I don't think he'll be considered as a truly great horse by the racing public. His connections may be a factor, but more than that, I'm not sure he was as good a 3 year old as Curlin. Curlin fell away after his trip to Dubai but at his best he was top class.

As a stallion, I can't see a son of Boundary being a big success. You heard it hear 1st.

re: My New Friend Big Brown

Draynay — Tue, 11 Nov 2008 13:15:09 GMT

Atthebarn... in what article did Rick call other horses nothing?

re: My New Friend Big Brown

barb — Tue, 11 Nov 2008 07:33:07 GMT

I'm glad Katsan mentioned Pepper's Pride as I have been wanting to sing her praises! She brings a tear to my eye. I was sad to read today that she will be retired after the Dec. 14 race. I wish her much future happiness! Also did you hear the comments of Simon Bray? About her not being worth breeding so they should just keep running her? She may not have great breeding and I have noticed that really good racemares don't always make great broodmares but if any horse deserves a solid shot at passing her genes on its gotta be a filly who's gone 18 for 18! I say bring on Street Cry!

re: My New Friend Big Brown

Katsan — Tue, 11 Nov 2008 02:32:38 GMT

Wanda, saw Pepper run. It was beautiful. Like Frank Lyons said (I recorded it) why should she leave NM when she's running for 150,000? Joe and Joel are making a decision if to run her next year or retire and breed her. The next race would be in mid December and then not until March so I think they'll retire and breed her.

Also I think the coast is probably crystal clear, especially if these guys are anything like my own racetracker, stubborn and proud. Helps with the job and the tough losses in the big races, how well we know that one, just this weekend in fact.

re: My New Friend Big Brown

Atthebarn2 — Tue, 11 Nov 2008 01:42:16 GMT

Wanda, we aren't trying to correct you attall. Just remember for what you see there's always more than meets the eye. Read the disclaimer. I think it's out of the whole posse's system. You're safe to come back, enjoy, see you down the road some day.My bud has some real nice ones he'll be focusing on.

re: My New Friend Big Brown

Wanda — Tue, 11 Nov 2008 01:20:08 GMT

I stand corrected gentleman. Get it out of your system and I'll be back when the dust clears. Take care posse.

re: My New Friend Big Brown

Atthebarn2 — Tue, 11 Nov 2008 00:28:36 GMT

Wanda, let me apologize in advance. Surely you know from your husband that you can't question a mans honor or integrity?

This isn't the first time he's called trainers, liars, cheats, dumb etc.

I'm kind of like some others trying to figure out what his stake in the whole deal is. He says he's not Rick, I believe that because he's misquoted too many stats, like the one way back about the Bluegrass winner. So what difference does any of this make to him?

My bet is this guy goes on boards all over trying to stir up trouble, well, that's one of my theories.

For the lady who said to put Rick on mute, those of us who are in the industry have said over and over we'd like to. Kind of hard to do though when he's talking about you or your horse. Or you hear it in person or from one of your friends who heard him say it. Worse yet to hear it blabbed all over the media when we get so little coverage and it comes out negative like this. I guess a fist to the mouth would be the ultimate mute but most of us won't do that, because WE ARE honorable.

Draynay, if somebody says your horse is NOTHING, what does that mean to you? It means to us who actually have horses, that your horse is crap or garbage. A BIG ZERO!

My suggestion to you is to choose a different person to champion. One who actually deserves it.

Trust me, Rick Dutrow would not give you the time of day if you were to meet him and try to speak to him, maybe if you had a van load of horses and a pocketful of money or would hook him up with good parties.

My guess is that he likes to flaunt the rules so much that with the newer rules, he'll get a huge positive and get ruled off for years like he did for his own issues, maybe he'll take you with him Draynay.

If Iavarone is as savvy as I think he is, he'll move those horses out of Rick's barn before he becomes as lacking in credibility and class as Rick projects.

re: My New Friend Big Brown

Whatamidoing — Tue, 11 Nov 2008 00:06:59 GMT

BIGHORSEFAN gave you the proof. You choose to see it in a skewed way, may be the way you see life in general.

My suggestion is to be careful who you call liars, bet you don't do that in your real world.

Sorry to disappoint you Wanda, but some things affect people to where they can't keep quiet, especially when it's OUR world this guy is intruding on.

Also, does this tell you WHY me and a few other owners and trainers on here have not disclosed our identity? David said it all, some of the rest of us chimed in on those comments.

WE unfortunately can't put this guy on MUTE. We can ourselves though. Problem with the mute button for the guys who believe in honesty, playing fair and being considerate of their colleagues and profession and trying to be honorable is the good is muted along with the bad.

re: My New Friend Big Brown

Kitman — Mon, 10 Nov 2008 23:59:24 GMT

Draynay, you just argued against yourself.

For all the people who said this was a weak group and you disputed them, for 5 months.

Well your favorite horse's trainer just was quoted saying this was a "weak group" and he was running against NOTHING (in another article I read).

Now if you're going to call guys out and call people liars, maybe you shouldn't just quote what supports your view.

The comment "a weak group" was for public consumption, MY guess from Dallas Stewart's, David Carroll's, Nick Zito's, Wayne Lukas and other's responses is, what he said on the backside was far worse than what we heard.

If saying his competitiors were a "weak group" isn't an insult and saying that they were NOTHING ie, garbage. What got you so fired up when it was said as a response to all your claims of him as the greatest horse in 30-100 years?

Plus he DIDN'T have the BEST horse in EVERY RACE. The race he called the others out on was one he lost, the horse was never the same post steroids....... Also 'foregone conclusion' that definitely sounds like someone dismissing the others as $5,000 claimers, or the bottom of the barrel.

Don't try and make him sound like an Altar boy by quoting the only innocuous comment there was.

Also I think I'd avoid any of the race tracks these guys on here frequent, like Churchill, Belmont, Aqueduct, Louisiana Downs, Oaklawn, Saratoga etc. Not that I've ever heard what track you yourself have ever even been to. Maybe a good idea to keep it on the q.t.

re: My New Friend Big Brown

Draynay — Mon, 10 Nov 2008 23:32:56 GMT

Bighorsefan... you provided 0 proof that Dutrow ever called other horses "garbage"

Dutrow saying "I don't see any problem" was accurate and correct nearly EVERY time. He was being honest he had the best horse in every race and proved it.

re: My New Friend Big Brown

Bradgm — Mon, 10 Nov 2008 23:24:07 GMT

Wanda, I know where you're coming from but calling people liars just pushes a button with guys like us.

re: My New Friend Big Brown

DONNA — Mon, 10 Nov 2008 21:28:37 GMT

All other thingd aside, I agree with normajean. How come no pictures of Evening Attire's going out seremony?? The old guy's been at it for many a year and one of my favorites.

re: My New Friend Big Brown

dawne — Mon, 10 Nov 2008 19:52:24 GMT

Well I have always been a Big Brown fan. After breaking his maiden on the grass at Saratoga, I knew we had something special.

I know a lot of people who couldn't get around Dutrow. I have a mute button. He talked, I turned him off and just watched Big Brown roll.

He won impressivly on the dirt and grass. I personally wish he would have run in the Classic. Maybe there was no beating the Euro's but it would have made it interesting.

re: My New Friend Big Brown

BIGHORSEFAN — Mon, 10 Nov 2008 17:28:16 GMT

p.s. from the same SI article, also interviews and ESPN

"David Carroll, who trains Belmont runner-up Denis of Cork, spat out words as he filled a bucket with cold water for his horse. "You're supposed to win with class," said Carroll. "He's saying his horse has beaten nothing and he's running against nothing. I was upset by that."

In an adjacent barn, trainer Dallas Stewart, whose Macho Again ran fifth, pulled on a bottle of Corona and angrily threw a lime into a trash can. "I've never heard anybody mouth off like that, and I've been around the track for 30 years," said Stewart. "There's no need to talk smack like that"

Zito, who also broke up the last Triple Crown try when his Birdstone ran down Smarty Jones in '04, said, "I'd like to focus on the positive, but I know this: Before honor, humility; you've got to be humble."

Think it's only Whatamidoing, Atthebarn, me and my buddies, Wanda and a few others saying this?

Fact is there are a lot on here who you have no idea what their connection really is.

re: My New Friend Big Brown

Wanda — Mon, 10 Nov 2008 17:23:21 GMT

Please stop this guys. Don't add fuel to the fire it's not worth it. I've got tons of respect for the trainers who take the time to come on here. I know first hand how long their days are but you can't win a debate with "he who we do not name". He is in some other place as far as that horse goes.500 people have tried to reason and he nevers concedes a point on ANYTHING period.Atte talks about that brick wall of his, and I think somebody gets off on seeing people bang their head against it.I like you guys to much to see you get caught up in this again. I want to read about positive stuff like the free TB website or Peppers Pride winning another one or take your pick but please, please don't go there with you know who.

re: My New Friend Big Brown

LDP — Mon, 10 Nov 2008 16:58:23 GMT

Dray, talk about the pot calling the kettle black, my god you lie all the time.