Sprint Championship Could Be a Bunch of Bull

re: Sprint Championship Could Be a Bunch of Bull

Householder — Mon, 24 Nov 2008 06:10:07 GMT

Voting and a point system. It sounds a lot like the College Football BCS system. Texas or Oklahoma...Curlin or Zenyatta? What about Utah or Midnight Lute for HOY? Neither will get their chance.

re: Sprint Championship Could Be a Bunch of Bull

Matthew W — Sat, 22 Nov 2008 04:44:40 GMT

I voted for Kotashaan over the great Lure---Kotashaan was a real good horse in his own right, truly the world's best at 1 1/2 and THAT is the classic turf distance....Also thought that 3 yo who won BC Turf this year had one wicked kick---would vote for him as this years Turf Champ....

re: Sprint Championship Could Be a Bunch of Bull

Householder — Wed, 19 Nov 2008 00:17:06 GMT

The "writers" sometimes can not reach a consensus regarding HOY either. The writers at the Daily Racing Form voted for Lure for HOY. The "writers" at TRA and NTWA voted for Kotashaan. I'm sure the same will happen this year. A point system sounds like a good plan but I can hear the naysayers already saying a Grade I Filly and Mare event, or a Grade I Spint, is not equal to a Grade I Handicap. There are some sprinters out there that racked up some Grade I and II events. Should they be considered for HOY this year?

re: Sprint Championship Could Be a Bunch of Bull

I. W. Hammer — Tue, 18 Nov 2008 23:34:38 GMT

Midnight Lute. He is the Champion Sprinter. Who is faster? It would be like giving a sprinter award to someone other than Yousain Bolt. People would laugh.

re: Sprint Championship Could Be a Bunch of Bull

JCRobinson — Tue, 18 Nov 2008 20:48:27 GMT

Since when is a mile considered a sprint? When arguments are used citing performances in mile races as qualifications for a SPRINT championship, I'm left rather confused.

As for the Eclipse awards, I feel they should be revamped in 2 ways, using other awards as examples. 1- Have a minimum number of starts in North America requirement, like the 3 starts in Canada for the Sovereign awards. For the Eclipse awards, I personally would like to see a 5 start min, that would average out to 1 start every 8 weeks or so through the BC. Certainly that should be enough for even today's "softies", although for the juveniles, I'd probably go 4 starts, with their shorter season. Does this punish injured horses or those who go to Dubai? Yes, but for the former, well you can't do much about that, and for the latter, it's up to the owners what they want more. 2- Adopt a system like the Cartiers in Europe, a combo of points earned in pattern races, writers votes and I believe fans get a voting share too. I think such a system worked very well this year, Zarkava didn't have the most G1 wins (that was Duke of Maramalade, wasn't it?), but she won HOY, deservedly so IMHO. Such a system rewards both on-track performance and whatever else you want to call it, popularity, "wow" factor, feel good story etc. Now this system really wouldn't help settle the Bull-Lute debate, except to eliminate both of them.

One last thing, and I'm sorry for being long winded, but for those who want to compare horse racing to other sports, the closest thing you can come to is NASCAR. Their signature event, the one that even the non NASCAR fan could probably identify, is the Daytona 500. It's their FIRST race of the year! The seasonal championship is just that, a year long run not based on the results of the marquee event on the schedule.

re: Sprint Championship Could Be a Bunch of Bull

SundaySilenced — Tue, 18 Nov 2008 20:36:57 GMT

I agree with AJH, Jason. We nominate YOU as a voice of reason, keeping traditions as well as taking us into the future by change that is needed on all levels. Though we cannot affect much, I believe we (you) can be a voice for change in the way the awards are given at the very least. If we do have a single way of picking the winners..i.e all based on points, then we wouldn't need voters from all over. Only if there was a tie. You need help? Let us know what we, your loyal bloggers can do to help. (besides take out our frustrations on you) lol

re: Sprint Championship Could Be a Bunch of Bull

Alex JH — Tue, 18 Nov 2008 19:16:35 GMT

Had a little trouble reading and following your post Joan.

But my comment was a response to you about the 'INDUSTRY' and the politics and voting.

And actually, we WERE talking about the Eclipse awards.

Not sure what else you could be referring to?????????? on a post about who the Eclipse award winners will be in the Sprint category??????

Most of the industry people DO think it's political, reference the trainers posts on here from a couple months ago.

Talk to the writers and the NTRA (aren't their voters racing secretaries and officials, or did I get that info wrong Jason?)

re: Sprint Championship Could Be a Bunch of Bull

chris — Tue, 18 Nov 2008 05:56:22 GMT

It has to be Benny the Bull. WOw did he run his heart out in Dubai. What a way to go BENNY.

re: Sprint Championship Could Be a Bunch of Bull

Joan Cowin — Tue, 18 Nov 2008 05:56:02 GMT

I wasnt speaking of the Eclipse in general. However if you want to go there...

Someone said earlier that Year end awards should be a competition not a popularity contest.

Who do you think make it a popularity contest?

That is in fact what these end of the year awards are whether some of you want to admit it or not.

your telling me that is NOT politics?

re: Sprint Championship Could Be a Bunch of Bull

Alex JH — Tue, 18 Nov 2008 05:25:42 GMT

Okay Jason, I nominate you to chair a committee to come up with a point system and specific criteria.

As far as Joan, I absolutely know for a fact that the horsemen in the industry do not always agree with the Eclipse winners and THEY would like more input. They aren't always in it just for their own horse, they know talent even if it isn't in their own barn.

re: Sprint Championship Could Be a Bunch of Bull

Jason Shandler — Tue, 18 Nov 2008 04:58:29 GMT

AlexJH: You are right. The Eclipse Awards are voted for by writers. Joan is off base. Although, I also believe we need a point system or defined criteria, as some have suggested.

re: Sprint Championship Could Be a Bunch of Bull

Alex JH — Tue, 18 Nov 2008 03:57:24 GMT

Jason, Please explain to Joan just WHO votes for the Eclipse winners.

The INDUSTRY, per se has little to do with it. Their representation is the NTRA and I don't think that includes those on the frontline, which in racings case is the backside so to speak.

re: Sprint Championship Could Be a Bunch of Bull

Matthew W — Tue, 18 Nov 2008 01:56:03 GMT

I think Fatal Bullet was the best 2nd place finisher in BC History (well Dayjur might have a say in that!) But Midnight Lute! The best BC Sprint I've seen! And YES, because of that--he gets my "vote"!

re: Sprint Championship Could Be a Bunch of Bull

Householder — Tue, 18 Nov 2008 00:16:04 GMT

Street Boss was on a 5 race winning streak entering the BC Sprint (Gr.I) which he finished 3rd in. Let's review. Won Bing Crosby (GR.I) in track record time (108.67). Won Triple Bend (Gr.I). Won Los Angeles Handicap (GR.III) in track record time (107.55). Finished second in Ancient Title (GR I). And set track record at Santa Anita for 5 1/2 furlongs (101.27). My argument is the same for those who say (mistakenly) that Zenyatta has never left California. The Eclipse award runs straight though California and Street Boss has one impressive resume. Horses that have not campained in California need to be looked at carefully.

re: Sprint Championship Could Be a Bunch of Bull

dave — Tue, 18 Nov 2008 00:12:33 GMT

At some point, we should have some interesting discussions about Forever Together vs. Goldikova and about somebody or other as best male turf horse.

Does Kip Deville get the Eclipse off a Gr. 1, a Gr. 3, and a second in the Mile? If so--and I'd say he does--then Midnight Lute is a defensible choice off a sensational win against a strong field.

re: Sprint Championship Could Be a Bunch of Bull

Joan Cowin — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 20:52:12 GMT

I have to agree with Street Boss even though for some ignorant reason I think Midnight Lute will bag this one.

Hats off to EmilioP for stating it so well. I really like his idea for giving the points.....

Ventura? No way.

Benny The Bull? Nice horse but I alway's think to myself if you put all the contender's in a match race, who's gonna come out first? My answer would not be Benny.

Midnight Lute? I'd like to see more from this horse then what he has given us.

An award is a statement from a voting body that tell's of ones accomplishment's. It states that one met the requirements to acheive the said recognition.

With that being said..... What is the industry requirements? Why are they not set in stone?

As alway's too many iron's in the fire and too many screw's. Yep, I said screw's. I had an old timer tell me one time "You know why they dont bury politicians when they die?" "Because their too crooked, you have to screw'em in the ground." This story come to mind when we discuss these awards. POLITICS-POLITICS-POLITICS.

re: Sprint Championship Could Be a Bunch of Bull

da3hoss — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 18:31:58 GMT

Indian Blessing and Ventura...no question, if it HAS to be a male to satisfy you sports guys, then, Benny the Bull.

re: Sprint Championship Could Be a Bunch of Bull

Jeremy — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 18:30:38 GMT

I like Midnight Lute but I think Benny the Bull deserves it. He was obviously the best sprinter this year, and it shouldnt be held against him that his season was cut short due to injury. Midnight Lute only ran twice this year, winning once but that wasnt his fault. But it will most likely go to him based on the fact of him winning the sprint.

re: Sprint Championship Could Be a Bunch of Bull

Goober — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 15:19:51 GMT

Another vote here for Benny-his victory in Dubai was breathtaking!

re: Sprint Championship Could Be a Bunch of Bull

jdz033 — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 15:02:29 GMT

Lute wins it because he leaves an impressionable image in my mind when he runs. I watched all of Benny's races and quite frankly nothing really stands out to me accept for the True North and I feel like his level of competition in that race was weak. My favorite horse to watch all year has to be Ventura. This filly is simply amazing to watch. She looked the best of any horse warming up in the Breeders Cup. And her race in the Cashcall mile was the stretch duel that I'll take away with me from 08 even though she ran 2nd. She deserves some sort of award, I just don't know which one she will get.

re: Sprint Championship Could Be a Bunch of Bull

Draynay — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 04:27:16 GMT

Yeah Jason.... Slew em all is right!!! Why did Big Brown win all those G1 races when all he had to do is just win the Classic to get HOY ?

re: Sprint Championship Could Be a Bunch of Bull

Householderj — Mon, 17 Nov 2008 03:56:52 GMT

Agree with Slew.em.All. Any discussion of a Sprint Champion must include Street Boss. He like Curlin, just happened to loose the wrong race. If we are to look at a "body of work" (like the Curlin camp would like) he stands out above the rest.

re: Sprint Championship Could Be a Bunch of Bull

Megan. — Sun, 16 Nov 2008 21:43:53 GMT

Hey now, we can't forget Indian Blessing!

re: Sprint Championship Could Be a Bunch of Bull

Runfast159 — Sun, 16 Nov 2008 21:39:19 GMT

The Breeders Cup races cannot be compared to other sporting events where by process of elimination a winner is crowned. The BC races do provide a venue whereby champions could be crowned by virtue of completing their solid racing season with a win in their division. That said, it will be unfortunate if Midnite Lute does win the Eclipse award off of one win. This is not what the BC series was created for and most disturbingly it rewards what all of us as fans don't want to see: uber-short racing campaigns. Now, I realize Lute's an older horse who by virtue of some bad luck didn't run but once this year. I know his story. However, an Eclipse award should be based on the horse with the best overall campaign. Unfortunately, there is really no one that stands out beyond Benny the Bull's own short campaign. But in my book 4 good races beat 1 good one, regardless of if they are Grade 1 or Grade 2.

re: Sprint Championship Could Be a Bunch of Bull

Slew.em.All — Sun, 16 Nov 2008 20:17:02 GMT

How can you award a Championship to a horse that DIDN't have a GR.1 win in the U.S?..seems silly to me.

If anything,Street Boss should get it because of his Important wins/consistency this year.

By the way: I thought the Breeders Cup races were Designed to determine end of the year Championships?..Jason?..