More Close Calls With Eclipse Awards

re: More Close Calls With Eclipse Awards

Watchful Eye — Mon, 05 Jan 2009 04:42:59 GMT

As an insider, there are additional considerations than races won. Those considerations include but are not limited to connections, trainer, age of the horse, timing...

That said, Curlin is hands down, horse of the year, despite him not being able to win the BC on the poly. I watched Delightful Kiss (class of 2007) dominate Anak Nakil(?)and have decided that Curlin's class of 2007...Street Sense, Hard Spun, Any Given Saturday and yes, Delightful Kiss, was TRULY SPECIAL! Of special note: Zenyatta is exceptional...for a filly. I can't vote for her because she didn't compete against the boys. That's major b/c Rags to Riches, who nosed Curlin, was never the same afterwards and Eight Belles paid the ultimate price proving that she could compete with the boys...

The other category that's not clear cut is Turf Male. Kip Deville is awesome; but not versitile; His game is a mile. Einstein is VERY versitile, but inconistent. Why is he inconsistent???? Could it be training decisions?!?! Helen Pitts is a solid trainer; but still young and learning(I'm not sure if there's another top 250 trainer with more "beaten favorites"!--Loyal owners...). Einstein is a horse that can carry speed over a distance (RARE!!!). The Maker's Mark should have been his had he ran forwardly. He can win on the lead as he did at Gulfstream (G1) and his dad (Spend a Buck) was one of a select few to win the Derby - gate to wire! Again, training decisions v. horse ability???? Close call, but Einstein is a versitile and durable horse and a better horse than his record reflects!

re: More Close Calls With Eclipse Awards

meekandhumble2830 — Tue, 30 Dec 2008 00:16:26 GMT

Jockey of the Year should go to G Gomez..Draynay & jshandler I agree with you 1000 Percent ! It will be a complete MOCKERY if Garrett Gomez doesn't clinch this award !!!

CURLIN gets the HORSE of the Year Honors simply because of his stronger campaign in the US and the world !

re: More Close Calls With Eclipse Awards

Householder — Thu, 25 Dec 2008 00:34:35 GMT

Gomez is back 12/26 at Santa Anita on Colonel John in the 7 furlong grade 1 Malibu Stakes. He faces the world record holder Bob Black Jack and the 7 furlong specialist Georgie Boy. This should be good. Last chance for these to run as 3 year olds.

re: More Close Calls With Eclipse Awards

MIKE RELVA — Sun, 21 Dec 2008 20:00:19 GMT

HI JASON:

HAPPY HOLIDAYS! I AGREE WITH YOU REGARDING KIP DEVILLE AND DISAGREEING WITH JOSE93. I'M LOOKING FOR EINSTEIN TO WIN.

re: More Close Calls With Eclipse Awards

Lorie — Sun, 21 Dec 2008 05:38:28 GMT

Garrett Gomez just slammed the door shut on any question at all of the Eclipse ( like there was ever a question to begin with) he now has 9 Grade 1s, not to mention 2 of his Breeders Cups races were too new for Grade 1 status, it's a complete Slam Dunk.

re: More Close Calls With Eclipse Awards

Jason Shandler — Sun, 21 Dec 2008 02:01:04 GMT

Jose93: it may not be Einstein, but it certainly wont be Kip Deville. No way

re: More Close Calls With Eclipse Awards

JOSE93 — Sat, 20 Dec 2008 12:23:12 GMT

The Eclipse award for Male Turf Horse must surely go to Kip Deville. He won the Poker Handicap brilliantly, he won the Maker's Mark Mile beating Einstein on his comeback easily. Ok he had a few disappointing runs at Woodbine and in Hong Kong, but no one can hold the Hong Kong run against him.

Kip Deville turned up at the Breeders Cup and finished second to one of the best fillies in recent times. Where was Einstein on the day that mattered? Or more importantly where do you think Einstein would have finished in either the Breeders Cup (Take your pick from the Mile or Turf) or in Hong Kong? Nowhere.

For those using Dirt runs to assist claims of Einstein getting an Eclipse award, don't. Dirt runs don't count and are irrelevant.

I find it very hard to put forward any sort of case for Einstein winning the award. I’ve no doubt Kip Deville has done more this year than Einstein.

re: More Close Calls With Eclipse Awards

Ryan Moseley — Sat, 20 Dec 2008 04:55:34 GMT

slew em all you make great points.

Jim - Arcangues from France won the Classic making Raven's Pass the 2nd European winner.

On the debate I think that I couldn't vote for Goldikova since she is a 3 year old and not an "OLDER filly and mare turf horse". That being said Forever Together was great but the best female turf performer of the year was easily Goldikova.

Conduit was fantastic but the Turf was a freakishly run race with the jockey on the favourite "going for home" with more than a half mile to run. AGAIN he is a 3 YEAR OLD and shouldn't be eligible for the award. I vote Grand Couturier.

I prefer Bejerano as a rider but I think it would be madness not to vote for Go-Go. Spectacular year capped off with a sublime performance at the coronation station the Breeder's Cup.

re: More Close Calls With Eclipse Awards

Scarletandgraypimpernel — Fri, 19 Dec 2008 04:24:02 GMT

Jason (and all the others who don't think Euros should get an Eclipse for one run) quick question not specifically related to this blog:

Do you think that Miesque belongs in the our Racing Hall of Fame based on only running twice here?

Just curious.

re: More Close Calls With Eclipse Awards

Slew.em.All — Fri, 19 Dec 2008 02:55:05 GMT

Foreign-based horses should earn an Eclipse Award after only racing once here in the US..Why?..because it's a doggone shame that they show-up for the "Day of Champions",fresh off the plane,basically.And put a whippin' to our so called best we have,on OUR home-court nonetheless!..If they can do that in those circumstances,I think they would dominate the entire year if they were based here.Which to me,proves that no matter what,they are best.

Also..though I'm involved in the Thoroughbred Industry here in So. California,I believe that the Europeans have a better grasp on their training/racing of horses than we do here in the US..They go at with a "Sporting" type of attitude,never hesitating to go head-to-head against any and all..while most outfits here run their stable as a "business",race their horses too often,simply to "pick-up checks" and pick their spots(duck) in entering their horses against lesser opponents only to make more money,and NOT really looking out for the welfare of the horse at times..if people get involved in the Industry strictly for the business side of it,shame on them!..It's a Sport!..not a commodity!

I guess thats why they call it The Sport of Kings,right?..back then they could afford to lose here and there.But,it was ALL about who had the fastest horse.Competition brought out the best in those involved,not greed!....PEACE to ALL

re: More Close Calls With Eclipse Awards

dave — Thu, 18 Dec 2008 21:27:51 GMT

Older Turf Male: the toughest category of all. Grand Couturier beat very weak fields, since Dancing Forever hated the soft going, and turned in a very poor performance against a weak field in the BC Turf. Would not get even a third-place vote from me. I tend to agree with the one-race rule, especially when Conduit beat a suspect field with the exception of the improving Eagle Mountain.

That leaves Kip Deville, much the best American miler, whose second place in the BC Mile would have been a winning race most years. Yes, I'd like to have seen another Grade 1 win, but I'll take Kip over Conduit and Einstein. Had Einstein won the Arlington Million, I could pick him, but when a horse's two best races were on dirt at Churchill, I have a real problem choosing him as the turf champion. Kip for best turf horse.

re: More Close Calls With Eclipse Awards

Jim — Thu, 18 Dec 2008 19:11:19 GMT

I have no problem with the foreign horses winning an Eclipse. I'd certainly be willing to be Ouija Board's "stall dude". On the other hand, why not create an Eclipse Award for International Horse of the Year? This year the battle would be between Goldikova, Raven's Pass, and Conduit.

Raven's Pass needs the right run to beat Henrythenavigator, but was the Euro's first BC Classic winner. Goldikova was destroyed twice by Zarkava but was otherwise brilliant. Conduit took down the BC Turf and the St. Leger -- 2 classic wins.

Anyhow, I agree that Forever Together has done enough to win the Eclipse for Turf Female. I loved her run and my partner loves grays which makes Forever Together my Facilitator of the Year. Come on Laragh and Stardom Bound!! Drop Tapit's fee some more!! 09 could be sweet.

I'll go with Gomez as Jockey of the Year, but I really like Bejarano. What I'd really like to hear more of is why a particular jockey fits a particular horse. Maybe that way the pundits could actually talk about the personalities of the horses, who I thought were the stars of the show. Did Shakis have to die before we learned what star he was in the barn?

Oh, don't forget folks, Eclipse was an English stallion. Should we change the name?

re: More Close Calls With Eclipse Awards

Lorie — Thu, 18 Dec 2008 18:00:49 GMT

Forever Together should win the Turf female and Garrett Gomez should be as easy a choice as Zenyatta, how the hell can a guy who leads the Nation in earnings by 8 million, won 4 Breeders Cups races, the Travers/Pacific Classic sweep on the same weekend and won more stakes races AGAIN for the 3rd consecutive year lose to the second place rider who won consecutive riding meets while riding the overwhelming favorite in the majority of those races trump that? If state riding titles were the criteria than Russell Baze would win every year, in the categories that count towards the Eclipse Awards the fact is Gomez wiped the floor with Bejarano and every other rider in the nation, it would be a complete travesty and a sham if he lost, and believe me he won't, it won't even be close.

re: More Close Calls With Eclipse Awards

Draynay — Thu, 18 Dec 2008 17:00:33 GMT

I am surprised there is even a conversation about who should win... its Rafael Bejarano without a doubt. 9 G1 wins....enough said.

re: More Close Calls With Eclipse Awards

Rechelle — Thu, 18 Dec 2008 16:49:19 GMT

Turf Male: I think Einstein did a bit more during the season, being off the board only once this season. Einstein would get my nod on this one.

Turf Female: Folk Opera was impressive in the E.P. Taylor, but not in her Breeders Cup race. Had she done better in the Breeders Cup, then I'd be more in favor of her. I agree with you that the Eclipse, being an AMERICAN award, should go to a horse that ran more than one race in the States, so Goldikova, albeit a spectacular horse, shouldn't get it based off the one race. Be default, that leaves Mauralakana, but even that is hard to choose, since she didn't have a strong season IMO having only one a single grade 1 race.

Jockey: I'm sorry I've got to go with Gomez. I think he had a fantastic season and is a brilliant jockey.

re: More Close Calls With Eclipse Awards

mg — Thu, 18 Dec 2008 15:33:24 GMT

Jason, Congratulations on your stance that these are primarily American awards. In past years many Eclipse titles have gone to foreign horses that produced a singular win in the BC. Granted that victory may have been spectacular but should not be the standard for Eclipse voting that it has become. Once again the BC has unfortunately become the yardstick for measuring a horsesclaim to an Eclipse title rather than the body of work over the year. One day on American soil should not overshadow a years campaign.

In regard to your three catagories:

1> OLDER TURF MALE

Keeping in mid the optimum word here is turf. I agree with your reasoning on Einstein and can't fault his year at all and his win in the Clark was very special, maybe this is the toughest award, but I have to agree that with the absence of grass in the second part of the year the photo has to go to GT in a nose bob.

2> OLDER TURF FEMALE

This to me is a no brainer - Forever Together. Absolutley loved Goldikova's BC and without Zarkava may have ended the year undefeated. However, for the reasons previously mentioned I could not give her the title. Mauralakana had a nice year but not enough to touch Sheppard horse in the voting.

3> JOCKEY

Your points on Bejarano are right on point - what a great year, but I can not agree that they overtake Gomez in the voting. The numbers Go Go has amassed during this year have been over numerous tracks and against the best riders in what has become who gets on the plane and shows up at the biggest races in America week to week. Bejarano - super year. Gomez - title.

re: More Close Calls With Eclipse Awards

Vikki — Thu, 18 Dec 2008 15:22:32 GMT

I'm on the fence with you as far as the horses go, and I totally agree that Bejarano should get the eclipse award for outstanding jockey. He is a pleasure to watch and seems to be kind to his mounts as well. GoGo uses the whip a bit much for my liking.

re: More Close Calls With Eclipse Awards

Racingfan — Thu, 18 Dec 2008 03:14:47 GMT

Jason, I completely agree with your assessment of the divisions. I think I would go with Einstein due to his better record. I really like Forever Together a lot! I do agree that Goldikova was very impressive but I am so glad to hear that you feel the same as I do about horses winning a championship in the US off one race here. It has happened before but in my opinion it should not. I personally think the horses should be required to be US based to even be considered.

re: More Close Calls With Eclipse Awards

Scarletandgraypimpernel — Thu, 18 Dec 2008 03:04:03 GMT

I think that Conduit should win the Turf male award. I don't have any problem with giving the award based on one run. He was outstanding in the BC and was also the winner of a classic in the UK.

One US horse I would toss into the mix would be Dancing Forever. He needed his firm turf, but when he got it he won the Manhattan and was well clear of the rest of the Americans in the Breeders' Cup.

As for the FM Turf, while I think that Goldikova was arguably the most talented horse to run in the US this year, Forever Together campaign, climaxed with her BC win, should make her the winner. I wouldn't object to Goldikova thought.