A Thank You and Simple Wishlist For 2009

re: A Thank You and Simple Wishlist For 2009

Robin — Wed, 01 Apr 2009 00:33:51 GMT

I have several wishes for 2009: first and foremost,NO MORE BREAKDOWNS!! That every horse crosses the line safe and sound. A Triple Crown winner sounds good too! Zero tolerance for all drugs, and jockey Randy Romero makes it to the Hall of Fame, it's long over due.

re: A Thank You and Simple Wishlist For 2009

optimist — Sat, 21 Mar 2009 12:31:03 GMT

We need our powers that be to come down much harder on trainers using drugs. It still is very prevalent and so many potential race goers are turned off thinking its all about drugs. (jockey whips upset a lot of laymen as well) Perhaps its time for 0 tolerance nationwide although I dont know how we would handle bleeders then.

re: A Thank You and Simple Wishlist For 2009

PA VANDAL ism — Fri, 27 Feb 2009 03:37:51 GMT

FEB 26, 2009

HELLO>> ENJOY THE STEVE & PAL SHOW with their annalysis of the MAY '09 K DERBY & BEYOND!They note that DUNKIRK seems to echo BIG BROWN somewhat after only 2 ex 'bouts.>>PLUS your show is always sincere for this SIX-BIT $ BETTER etc>> AND WE URGENTLY NEED A SINGLE LEADER FOR ALL OF HORSERACING--NOW!! WE HAVE A MESS TO BE CLEANED-UP ASAP.<<>> VAN

re: A Thank You and Simple Wishlist For 2009

TenForTen — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 18:00:12 GMT

Yes, your comments are most appreciated atthebarn. Jason seems to be the one neglecting to adhere to the Law of the Blog. 1st amendment right for you atthebarn. Jason, remember, your media pass can be taken at any time. Atthebarn is truly "in the industry"!!!

re: A Thank You and Simple Wishlist For 2009

PA VANDAL ism — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 11:21:02 GMT

Jason- 'tis great to see your blog is up and the emotions/logic of the various positions about owners, drugs, tracks, horses, falling $ handle etc. Well Done to ALL.

How is the Fantacy rec. panning-out? Seems someone is trolling for $$ more $$ losers to gamble than the basic FUN of the choice, period. Whatttaaa you say?? I enjoyed your weekly effort to have a show AND to HANDICAPPP the best you guys could. Hope your format returns as an alternative to fantasies customer MARKETING though! How "bout a stab at the tri. cr. in,say, May and June!?! V

re: A Thank You and Simple Wishlist For 2009

Bradgm — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 05:14:44 GMT

Unbelievable.

Why these horse racing people would take the time to come on, try to explain so many things. Why they would try to stand up for themselves is beyond me.

Joel Marr did it when his mare was scratched, because you villified him without knowing the true story behind Peppers Pride. A couple others have too or at least done it through you Jason.

Why should these people HAVE to come on a blog to defend themselves and try to set the record straight? Now if it was just opinion and discussion it would be fine. But it's not, it's condemnation, accusations and criticism and you all make it personal and hurt a lot of feelings.

To be publically scolded when one guy who consistently called people out and name called, challenged people and fought with nearly everyone on the board never was publically chastised in this manner. You say he comes off as angry, think YOU might feel the same way if your lifeblood and life's work was being dissected and talked about on a public forum SO negatively?

I KNOW this man, my bet is some of you may too. He's a good guy who's taught you all a bunch I bet.

I'm at a loss right now. I just watched while people criticized and crucified another man who had given 25 years of his life to my alma mater, now to come on here and witness this, makes me lose my faith in mankind.

Unbelievable

re: A Thank You and Simple Wishlist For 2009

Mike — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 04:56:48 GMT

Jason, I've been reading these posts and blogs for quite some time. Never felt compelled to write. However, tonight I do.

I really can empathize with Atthebarn2. I sincerely do not believe his last post was the least bit disrespectful.

Sounded more to me like a man who has tried to give insight, I've read and he and his friend have explained some aspects of horse racing very well. Everything from the types of drugs used and why, to lead changes to what they deal with when a horse has quarter cracks.

Most everyone on here is speculating, looking at it from the outsiders view, thus just bantering back and forth with each other.

He is being taken to task publicly when I have seen some posts on here which have absolutely villified him and many in the industry who do not post.

His comment just prior to the first, was laced with sarcasm. His second seemed to try and explain his feelings and sounded pretty disheartened.

If that was the aim of many on here who said things that they should be more ashamed of than him, well congratulations.

You've probably cut off the real inside view you all had.

Why, because even though you all are just giving your opinions, they may be uninformed but they don't need to be intentionally hurtful, do they?

When he responded with a few home truths about what people were saying, you all got offended. You did the same to Katsan. Not Whatamidoing because he seems like he knows how to ignore it. Maybe like his friend said, he's got some real good horses and hasn't the time for this.

Most of these folks are busier than we can imagine and have little time, but take time to come on here and write, maybe not what we all want to hear, but I've learned an awful lot.

I don't know them but from reading their comments, I would be honored.

I have read the comments of the gambler friends and they seem to think the sun rises and sets in the man.

I've always kind of enjoyed his dry wit, excellent writing and stories. Shame I doubt we'll see them again.

Now everyone can just make it up as they go and it'll be whatever way you all want it to be.

re: A Thank You and Simple Wishlist For 2009

Wanda — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 03:36:18 GMT

Don't you ever pack it in mister Atthebarn! You don't suger coat nothing, so don't stop being you okay bud? If wishes were fishes.....

One day I'll meet you all.

re: A Thank You and Simple Wishlist For 2009

Jason Shandler — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 03:25:55 GMT

AththeBarn: This a blog and the point of it is for people to express their opinions. Because you work in the industry, you have some insight that others don't. We appreciate some of those opinions. But that does not mean you are right about everything. And it certainly doesnt mean that people on here have to agree with everything you write. Again, the point of a blog is for people to give their point of view - whether it be from a fan, a gambler or an insiders perspective. You do come off as negative and angry at times, which I think is what Schabelli is saying. Your last post really illustrates that. While we all can get testy from time to time on here, this blog is supposed to be fun. Let's try to keep it that way and respect everyone even though we may disagree.

re: A Thank You and Simple Wishlist For 2009

Atthebarn2 — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 00:17:29 GMT

Am I anti fan, anti gambler? Absolutely not. Fact is I'm always courteous to fans, if someone wants to come on the backside, I help out with that. I'm good friends with some gamblers. Some on here. Do I get badgered and bashed by those fans and gamblers?

NO. Do we get badgered and bashed by many folks on here? YES.

My point and I believe I can speak

for Kat, Whatamidoing and maybe one or two others who say that the real fans we run into don't have us on their agenda. Do they ask questions yes. Do we answer the questions? Yes we do. Do we explain things, all the time. Fact is we've come on here and explained things from our perspective or how things work in actuality. Do some appreciate our input, yes. Do we get it thrown back in our face with great regularity? yes.

Am I having a bad day? No worse than any other, when I've read about how people think a bunch of us are cheaters and we are perceived as such even if we aren't. Just because of guilt by association or being in the same job, a standard not many of you are held to.

The economy is in the toilet and we keep hearing from all of you on here how the industry is going to be dead soon. But you may just lose your livlihood too, although we don't rub your noses in it, even though YOUR industry might need to change some things.

People say the arguments are based on heresay, someone tries to explain once again after two had already explained and then is told that the person who asked is familiar with it already.

I really don't know why we try to give input. Just turns into a futile attempt to try and defend ourselves. Guess we don't have a right to that and should just stay quiet and take whatever people want to dish out.

Most who are good people and try that, get slapped in the face, ala Larry Jones. So like him they just bag the whole thing.

At my age I know what to bag. Good luck with arguing it with each other, getting any insight from us that have been willing to talk.

You'll just have to get your input from Jason's Q&A's and most of those folks may seem very open, but they aren't really. See we've all learned over the years, who's a fan and who just wants to take us to task.

Guess a senior moment for me and temporary insanity for the others, or maybe just an attempt to help people see there's two sides to every story. And just what our feelings and side are.

re: A Thank You and Simple Wishlist For 2009

barb — Tue, 06 Jan 2009 22:32:40 GMT

After reading the comments here on the drug issue I have read Run Baby Run by Bill Heller and I recommend it to anyone interested in educating themselves more on the Salix(Lasix) issue. I have always thought that race day meds should be banned and now I REALLY think so. And I agree with Cheryl from MD about claiming races. I am a fan who likes to dream of someday owning a racehorse, but I can't expect to buy a superhorse and from my perspective I assume I would be in love with him and wouldn't want to have to risk losing him every time he ran.

re: A Thank You and Simple Wishlist For 2009

Jason Shandler — Tue, 06 Jan 2009 21:16:16 GMT

Sundaysilenced: I agree. I will have the first Triple Crown Talk post on Wednesday.

re: A Thank You and Simple Wishlist For 2009

Karen2 — Tue, 06 Jan 2009 17:37:28 GMT

Katsan: when you say "before you comment, I think a little research is in order" who are you addressing?

Not sure that is a fair statement to anyone on this blog.

Katsan, fans are very important to this industry. You wouldn't need to train a horse if people didn't care to bet or watch a race. We might not all be horse trainers but some of us are experienced horse people. We have horses that are used in other disciplines. Not just racing. You miss the point completely when people say horses should not be raced on drugs. You say if a horse gets a fever, it should never run again???? Huh???? I don't believe that is what is being said here at all. We may not get up every morning and go to the barn at 5:00 to train a horse but our involvement and love for this industry is more than fleeting. So what if we go for the "perfect world" theory.... we may not live in a perfect world, but isn't it our jobs to strive for a much more close to perfect world for our equine friends? I agree with Atthebarn. I think no matter what is done, someone wont be satisfied. I think its fair to say that is true in all aspects of life. But does that mean we turn our backs on the obvious problems and quit working to make this a better sport for all involved?

With that said Katsan, its nice to read posts from people on the inside who can enlighten us on some inside practices. I think that is why most of us enjoy this so much. Because we want to soak up as much about this industry as we can. I do think its important to recognize each and every one of us is vital for the survival of this sport.

HelSbelles: not sure what your reference to me in your last post was all about. Please enlighten me.

re: A Thank You and Simple Wishlist For 2009

Cheryl from Maryland — Tue, 06 Jan 2009 17:14:56 GMT

Actually, I lied. This will be my last post about the medication issue. I meant to include this with last one, so I promise I mean it this time.

I stated in my first post on this issue that I feel that the claiming system needs to be looked at and maybe revised somewhat. One of the reasons I said that, which I have not brought up before, is that some people are hesitant to give the horses time off to really get sound because many times the person who spent the time and money to "fix" the horse has it claimed away as soon as the horse returns to the races (often in its first start back). They have very little chance to get their money back unless they're lucky enough for the horse to win first time back. Very few owners can afford to repeatedly spend thousands of dollars to repair a horse with no hope of any return on their investment. People may be more willing to give their horses the time they need to recover, rather than medicating them and trying to keep them going, if they could "protect" the horse for the first couple of starts back. I'm talking about horses that are not talented enough to run in allowance company, whose owners have no realistic chance to earn any purse money without risking them for a claiming tag. There are some claiming trainers who look for horses who are fresh and have been turned out to heal. As I said before, that's o.k. because that's how the game is played at this point in time. But maybe the claiming game could use some tweaking and a little less medication would be necessary.

re: A Thank You and Simple Wishlist For 2009

Cheryl from Maryland — Tue, 06 Jan 2009 16:31:19 GMT

First, I promise this is the last thing I'll post about the medication issue. It's time to turn my attention to the newly turned 3 year olds and start looking for my Derby horse!

I have seen several posts suggesting that no raceday medications are allowed in Europe and there are very few violations. That may be true. But claiming races are not the backbone of European or (as far as I know), anyone else's racing. I know that they have "selling races" in Europe, but it is my understanding that they work quite differently from our claiming races. Maybe someone from Europe can let me know if I am understanding the system correctly. As I understand it the winner of the selling race is auctioned off after the race. That's a far cry from our claiming races, where the claim slip is dropped before the race, and when the gate opens and the horse becomes a "starter" the horse is yours, win or lose, dead or alive. The owner/trainer who is claiming the horse and hoping to run it back as soon as possible has no way of knowing what the horse was given and when it was administered, especially since some of these horses can be claimed 2 or 3 times in the space of a month or from any number of consecutive races. I suppose you could test every horse you claim for every prohibited substance, but after a while it would become prohibitively expensive. It's hard enough for owners of "cheap" horses to stay afloat now. I can just imagine what my owners would have said if I told them they had to pay for extensive drug testing on every horse they claimed before they could run it back. If I remember correctly, one of the reasons there were no penalties for EPO positives early on was because they could test for the presence of it, but could not tell when and by whom it was administered and did not want to punish innocent people. I believe some jurisdictions are now considering using "out of competition testing" to try to correct that problem. So if I claim one or have one sent to me from another trainer (as I said before, sometimes the information you get from the previous barn is faulty and, believe me, when you claim a horse you generally get NO information from the previous barn)and the horse tests positive for something I didn't give it, fine. I'll serve the suspension if I lose my appeal. But don't rule me off for life for someone else's mistake or for something I had no way of knowing.

re: A Thank You and Simple Wishlist For 2009

schabelli — Tue, 06 Jan 2009 13:12:53 GMT

Atthebarn,

You had me for awhile. There will always be unfortunate instances and reasons or excuses to cover them up. With that i agree. Your extremely negative attitude towards those who you are "trying to impress" is however very disturbing. You are in the wrong business if those who you depend on to make your living are those who you decry. You need those fans and bettors for your job to survive. Such a negative attitude towards the hands who feed you will most certainly lead to your demise.

I am hoping that the majority of others out there in the racing industry do not share your view. If that is the case then racing is in far more trouble than I thought. I understand that in any business there are disgruntled employees who's attitudes towards there job and those they produce for are very negative. Perhaps you didn't intend to come off as ungrateful or condescending towards those who you are "trying to impress" but it sure reads that way.

Your last sentence tells me alot. "WE don't have time for that." Reminds me of a former employee of mine who spent most of the day complaining or wailing against anything or everything and then had the gall to say they didn't have time to do what they were paid to do. In this case you sure had time to take away from your busy 16-18 hr day and get online to complain. I guess that day includes time for that. In the business world personal time spent on the computer is not considered work.

If you just happened to be having a bad day I could maybe understand some of the attitude. If you sincerely despise those essential to keeping the industry alive, I can only hope you are in the vast minority of those who call the racing industry their bread and butter employment.

re: A Thank You and Simple Wishlist For 2009

Whatamidoing — Tue, 06 Jan 2009 04:10:50 GMT

Kat, good to see you feisty and full of life after all your tragedies the past few months.

Not to worry Darlin, in 5 years we will still be here in some way, shape or form and almost all these folks will have moved on. Bigger fish to fry than us.

re: A Thank You and Simple Wishlist For 2009

Draynay — Tue, 06 Jan 2009 04:08:49 GMT

Draynot... I know you are not knocking my buddy Smooth Air who unlike Curlin was able to WIN a stakes race on turf. Smooth Air will rule the older division this year and should his feet hold up could be the horse to beat at the end of the year.

re: A Thank You and Simple Wishlist For 2009

Katsan — Tue, 06 Jan 2009 02:49:36 GMT

And yes New Mexico is beautiful. From the big ranches, the mountains, the deserts, the badlands, the red rocks, the fertile valley farms, the white sands, the carlsbad caverns, Chaco canyon, Wild horse canyon, the malpais, the Anazazi ruins in the southwest. Our wild mustangs that run free, all of our wildlife preserves. Those of us in New Mexico have done a very good job of protecting and preserving our wildlife, animals, natural beauty and I think you can be assured that we take all of this very seriously. We take pride in being independent and in the love and care we give ALL of our animals. Keeping the wild west, wild and free of human clutter, yet being caring and giving people. Kind of like 90% of the people you find in horse racing.

re: A Thank You and Simple Wishlist For 2009

Katsan — Tue, 06 Jan 2009 02:35:22 GMT

Going thru airport security is to protect YOU as much as anyone else. Same thing when they search your bag going into a sporting event. You choose do go that way, sounds a LOT whiney to me, don't like it? DRIVE.

I'd say that responsiblity is just as or even more important for Dr's, pharmacists, nurses and such because their mistakes affect millions of lives. Only difference for us is the horses we work with are preferable to a lot of the human beings these medical people might accidentally kill or maim.

You are acting as though no one ever pays a price, not true.

We are not saying we should be held blameless. We are saying that WHY should we be held to a standard that is impossible to meet. NEVER, EVER MAKE A MISTAKE OR HAVE AN ERROR AS LONG AS YOU LIVE. Like Atthebarn said, it'll always be something because that's what people who like to criticize and manage other people's lives that has no real true effect on their own, do.

What I, like several others are saying is, how many times a day do you think about horse racing? How often do you go to the races?

How MUCH do any of YOU really know about medication, it's uses, penalties and what is a violation.

That was in direct response to someone saying "This argument could go on forever and from what I can see is basically formed just from opinion or hear say."

Well in some of our cases it isn't hearsay, and we aren't just arguing about it for the fun of it, to pass the time or because we like to argue or have an axe to grind, a bone to pick.

Tell me just how does horse racing and it's drug issues, outbreaks of

EHV or Equine Influenza or anything else WE face actually affect your day to day life?

re: A Thank You and Simple Wishlist For 2009

Katsan — Tue, 06 Jan 2009 02:12:26 GMT

Once again we have the perfect world theory.

It isn't.

Other countries allow training meds and that seems to be where a lot of trainers get in trouble. Sure maybe there should be no race day meds. But to say no meds at all? That's sort of like saying that no one should ever take medication. A horse may be perfectly healthy, then have a fever. A reason to not ever run the horse again? NO. Before you comment, once again I think a little research is in order.

re: A Thank You and Simple Wishlist For 2009

Karen2 — Mon, 05 Jan 2009 20:49:26 GMT

Thank you Katsan for your answers to my questions. Although it is true some of the trainers on these blogs know about these drugs, its not so well-known amoung the fans. What I see are some bloggers explaining why it would be hard to banish all drugs. I was looking for some hard core evidence to justify that. Even after reading your response, it would appear to me that the thoroughbred does not need and should not need any drugs to run the race. A horse in top condition and sound, should not be running on drugs and there shouldn't be any excuses if they are. This sounds much easier to control than different levels of violations and classes of drugs. Shouldn't they be running on hay, oats and water? Perfect world......maybe, but why can't this happen?

re: A Thank You and Simple Wishlist For 2009

HelSbelles — Mon, 05 Jan 2009 20:41:44 GMT

Katsan, yes it makes sense to assume that most of us in life have made mistakes. I think what you and others are missing though is that most of us in life have to pay for our mistakes. Since horseracing involves life and death, in my opinion the rules should be more stringently enforced then in a lot of other professions, not less as you seem to indicate. From reading the comments from you as well as other horseracing insiders (you felt it important to stress the difference between insiders and outsiders as if one set of opinions matters more, causing further alienation), the average outsider might get the impression that the industry has a lot of slackers that want to be excused from being responsible for their mistakes. And yes this is America, as you point out, and people are supposed to be presumed innocent till proven otherwise, yet we are all treated like criminals when we go through security at the airport...not because most people are looking to do evil, but because a SMALL percentage of people are. The excuses all just sound a bit whiney and defensive. I know that what I just said is not going to win me any friends (that's for people like Karen2), but these changes really need to happen for the good of your livelihood -- can't you see that? Look around, it's not just racing that must make changes. People are losing their jobs left and right in the real world, and are forced to make life changes to survive. Still, I enjoy reading your posts about New Mexico, Katsan... it is very beautiful there with all the horses grazing in rolling pastures covered with yellow flowers, and white sands is amazing. This city-girl saw a dead cow along the side of the road while I was there. I was not prepared for that one legs straight up defying gravity??).

re: A Thank You and Simple Wishlist For 2009

Atthebarn2 — Mon, 05 Jan 2009 19:43:28 GMT

Yep, we'll get the drug issue fixed (believe me I'll be happy to be on level playing ground me and the other 9 clean horses in that field of 11).

That won't fix what ails us so, then we'll get rid of the whips and these guys on the backs of these high strung animals will have one go thru the gap, or wipe out the rest of the field a few times, and umm, well we'll get back with you on that one.

Then we'll have breakdowns of a couple of high profile horses and it'll be, inferior breeding.

Then we'll get the 'sound' sturdy horse back and perfectly 'sound', drug free, no whip horses will break down.

Then it'll be, we need to get rid of dirt tracks and go to the oh so safe synthetics, and then we'll have a large # of breakdowns on the synthetics. Oops wait, there's been 5 breakdowns since Santa Anita, home of the ultra safe synthetic Breeders Cup, opened their meet.

Then SUDDENLY, all the armchair critics, Tuesday morning (since that's usually our dark day) trainers MAY realize. 'hey these are fragile, high strung, somewhat unpredictable animals, running against others of the same makeup with varying personalities and levels of experience up on their backs, varying personalites and levels of experience preparing them and all of them in an all-out competitive environment and exhibiting a desire to win.'

Then where will WE be? Sitting here reading the ruminations of the people who fleetingly think of racing when they're bored or when someone raises the subject to someone in the 'general public' who wouldn't attend a race if their life depended on it and reflects on those words of wisdom.

We've been fighting against a negative image for years. Ever since the REAL people who loved animals and the majesty of racing, still realizing the danger involved, up and started getting too old to attend or started dying.

We've fought the image of carny type people, moving from track to track. We've fought the image of hiring and abusing illegal aliens etc. We've fought the image of being race fixing, debtors to big time gamblers and criminal syndicates.

Fact is like I said we've been fighting to impress a bunch of video game addicts who, like Jordan said, need the constant adrenaline rush of action. We're trying to impress and attract folks who are having their homes foreclosed, cars reposessed and losing their jobs in record #'s. We're trying to impress people who are decrying medications for our charges, but are taking antidepressants, other psychotrophic prescriptions and illegal drugs at a rate rivaling any in history, while many of those same folks are yelling the loudest about us.

We are on the whole, honest, hardworking, animal loving people who are here 16-18 hours a day 7 days a week 365 days a year, doing what we love. Not trying to get rich, not intending to harm a living creature or insult or judge another human being in a field we know nothing about other than heresay or what we read and what others choose to blow out of proportion or what some have an agenda about. WE don't have time for that.

re: A Thank You and Simple Wishlist For 2009

Wanda — Mon, 05 Jan 2009 18:44:25 GMT

Yes Adam and Jason I agree that the media portrays mostly negative stories about racing, that's what sells the average person to read or watch. Someone commented on the 5 breakdowns at SA the first week of racing. I went and read the article on the Bloodhorse.com. Of the five breakdowns, three were fatalities. A condylar fracture of the right hind and one horse got bumped and was put down. the filly Indyanne fractured a sesamoid and will not require surgery. They went on to say that they cannot determine for sure that the track played a part in these breakdowns. The horse that got bumped could have broke down from that. The filly was saved as she did not fracture both sesamoids. The condylar fracture must have been displaced because non-displaced are fixable.

So my point is that because I went and read this on a reputable website the facts were given out not just the headlines. Okay so I know what I read I understood and the average person wouldn't but at least it's there to read if you want to.

So how do we combat this? Right back to square one which is do away with all pre-race meds or as Jason says tougher penalties for those who push the limits.