Horse of the Year - Rachel Isn't a Lock Yet

re: Horse of the Year - Rachel Isn't a Lock Yet

mark — Sat, 15 Aug 2009 23:48:20 GMT

WOW..I didn't know the hype on rachel has people drinking the kool aid. Comparison to Ruffian and Secretariat. Man oh man. This filly is good but she is nowhere near he great fillies or mares ever. How can the best horse in training (according to some of you) skip the horse racing showcase Breeders!?)

Some of you are just making the same excuses Jackson is making. Decades from now what will be discussed is

'yeah she won HOY but ducked the great mare Zenyatta'

'yeah she won HOY but ducked the best horses in the world'

she is nothing but hype!! lol

re: Horse of the Year - Rachel Isn't a Lock Yet

ABZ — Wed, 05 Aug 2009 15:05:31 GMT

I have to agree Ragsy, I can't see anyone taking HoY away from Rachel now.

re: Horse of the Year - Rachel Isn't a Lock Yet

Ragsy — Mon, 03 Aug 2009 16:06:24 GMT

As far as HOTY I think after what Rachel has just done signs and seals the honor......wow.....

re: Horse of the Year - Rachel Isn't a Lock Yet

Freetex — Wed, 29 Jul 2009 23:03:43 GMT

I love both Rachel Alexandra and Zenyatta.

Honestly, there is something about Zenyatta's style and carriage that just oozes regal. And lest we forget her dressage movements before every race.

I am sure Rachel will be as memorable for her uniquely beautiful face and racing power.

How lucky we are to be talking about two such magnificently talented champions.

re: Horse of the Year - Rachel Isn't a Lock Yet

Zippy Potato Chippy — Tue, 28 Jul 2009 13:48:34 GMT

Beating 3-year olds is fine. However, Secretariat won the inaugural Marlboro Cup against a field that included his stablemate, the 1972 Derby and Belmont Stakes winner Riva Ridge, top California stakes winner Cougar II, Canadian champion Kennedy Road, Onion, Travers winner Annihilate 'Em, and 1972 American Champion Three-Year-Old Male Horse, Key to the Mint. He won in 1:45 2/5 for 1⅛ miles, a world record at the time. It may not have been a G1 at the time, but that was a G1-caliber field.

Also, his last race would be against older horses in the Canadian International Stakes at Woodbine. It was the 2nd time in his career that he raced on grass and the first time he would be asked to go one and five-eighths miles. He won by 6 1/2 lengths.

She has yet to race against older, on turf, and maybe set a world record or two over 9 panels. Sure, she could do it, it's possible, but it has to be done before proclaiming any victory of some sort. That's why they still run the races.

re: Horse of the Year - Rachel Isn't a Lock Yet

Draynay — Tue, 28 Jul 2009 00:36:24 GMT

Zippy we all know Secretariat had a great Triple Crown Series but that was just 5 weeks. What did he do the rest of the year? He lost 3 times to very average horses and never won a G1 race on dirt after Belmont. After Rachel wins the Haskell she will have more G1 wins than Secretariat on dirt.

re: Horse of the Year - Rachel Isn't a Lock Yet

Zippy Potato Chippy — Mon, 27 Jul 2009 17:47:09 GMT

"Would have" is totally different from "has done". If you are comparing Rachel Alexandra to Secretariat, remember that Secretariat completed in ALL three legs of the Triple Crown (let alone win them), Rachel Alexandra did not and showed she was spent right after The Preakness. Doubtful she would have won by 31 lengths or so if she ran in The Belmont. (And who was that other horse they were comparing to Secretariat not too long ago and didn't even finish The Belmont?) I'm not saying Rachel Alexandra is not great. She's a great 3 year old and will probably get that award at the very LEAST at this point in the season. But she still has a ways to go before becoming immortalized.

But just like Zenyatta, Rachel Alexandra has nothing left to prove against the fillies. It's time for BOTH to leave their cushy sex restrictions and put some beat-down on the boys. And they will if given the chance.

re: Horse of the Year - Rachel Isn't a Lock Yet

afleetalexforever — Thu, 23 Jul 2009 03:54:26 GMT

Let me just say I have a great deal of respect for Ruffian and Secretariat and Go for Wand and Personal Ensign and others that are mentioned on this blog. But unfortunately Rachel Alexandra is doing some things that these fillies and mares did and thus far she has proved more impressive with some of the things she has done. Someone mentioned that a particular poster should not be able to mention Ruffian and Secretariat when talking about Rachel Alexandra. Well let me say this "while you are telling that poster not to speak of them in the same breath, please remind Tom Durkin, The Associated Press, and numerous sports and horse racing writers who mentioned that Rachel Alexandra bested Ruffians record in the Mother Goose, and would have bested Secretariat's record if even allow to canter home any faster". See records are meant to be broken, and comparions are meant to be made when dealing with impressive horses now that can be compared to those in the past. There is plenty of respect for the horses in the past, but there are also opinions about what is going on now that although it may upset some, everyone has the right to voice their opinion.

re: Horse of the Year - Rachel Isn't a Lock Yet

Convene — Wed, 22 Jul 2009 15:47:01 GMT

Minethatbirdfan makes one point I forgot to answer in my comments. Ruffian could be called a queen because she DID give her all. Rachel so far has only once really been asked; she's so superior to her peer group that she just romps. I think she will show that heart when asked but yes, what really determines class is what happens when the heat's really on. Ruffian showed us what she was: a champion to her core. I hope - I THINK - Rachel will do that too, but till she does no, I won't rank her above Ruffian either. Ruffian was just - IT!

re: Horse of the Year - Rachel Isn't a Lock Yet

LDP — Wed, 22 Jul 2009 15:34:54 GMT

PomDe Terre,

What throne does she have? Certainly not HOTY, because as i remember correctly she didn't win it last year. She is only queen of her own division, the older fillies that is it. If she wants HOTY she has to work for it and take some risks. Running against the same fillies in the same easy races as last year doesn't count as risks. RA is not winning the crown by default she's taking the risks in order to get it, unlike others who refuse to go east or, what i'd like her to do, take on colts at all.

re: Horse of the Year - Rachel Isn't a Lock Yet

PomDeTerre — Wed, 22 Jul 2009 10:59:14 GMT

To Draynay: Come on!!! RA BETTER than Ruffian??? What kinda drugs you on??? She's got WAYYYY more to prove to make that claim.

re: Horse of the Year - Rachel Isn't a Lock Yet

PomDeTerre — Wed, 22 Jul 2009 10:55:01 GMT

I live in Saratoga, where RA is working out. She's set for the Haskell. I highly doubt her overrated trainer & owner will "sacrifice" her with 20 days rest to run the Travers. They refuse to run poly. They refuse to travel west. They will, if Zen comes east, find some "excuse" why RA can't or wont't run ...like Jackson losing face.

Until she faces the Queen, she is simply a Princess, and princesses don't inheirit the throne by default.

You Go ZENYATTA!!!

re: Horse of the Year - Rachel Isn't a Lock Yet

Mary — Wed, 22 Jul 2009 06:24:20 GMT

First of all, one more vote for Rachel Alexandra taking HOY. I really don't add anything new here, nut just to explain my reasoning...

I disagree that the BC is the King or Queen making achievement for HOY honors especially when it is run on a synthetic. Jess Jackson has it quite right on that score. We should be breeding horses that can hold up on natural surfaces, and not changing surfaces to accommodate a weakened breed. In addition, there are no dirt races in the BC when it's at Santa Anita. There is only turf and turf-like.

Jason, I can't believe how easily you dismiss a Rachel Alexandra Haskell win. How many times does Rachel have to beat the boys to establish that she is better than they are to you? Have you seen how the Haskell field is shaping up? Belmont Stakes winner Summer Bird, Arkansas Derby winner Papa Clem, Long Branch Stakes winner Atomic Rain, and Tom Fool Stakes winner Munnings are among the headliners. No one was dismissing these horses prior to the Triple Crown. In fact, people were saying what a strong field compared to last year. But now apparently they are dismissed as "not exactly the strongest group we've ever seen."

And I think you are forgetting all too soon what a thrilling race for the ages her Preakness victory was. It was the way the race unfolded that still gives me goose bumps. That race was the gutsiest thing I ever saw in my life, and in my opinion, it catapults Rachel Alexandra not only to HOY but straight into Valhalla. She was tested early by a speed duel with none other than a very talented and fresh sprint Stakes Record holder whose obvious intent was to mix it up with her right from the gate. I don't care how they try to explain why the first thing that sprinter from the one hole needed to do was get out to nearly the middle of the race track to just happen to force the favorite from the outside position wide all the way around the first turn. It looked intentional, and I will always believe that it was intentional. She held off that fine sprinter and still got a couple seconds breather before holding off the breathtaking late run of the Kentucky Derby winner. She was tested every step of the way, and still bested all to become the first filly to win the Preakness Stakes since 1924. That one race takes her to new heights untouched and clean.

All the talk before the Mother Goose was how these fillies that put in big runs in a Classic against the boys are never the same in their next race, or maybe ever. Instead of regressing, Rachel Alexander smashes through the Stakes Record set by Lakeway, and smashes through the margin of victory record set by none other than the immortal Ruffian, without ever being asked to run. Last but not least, she nearly broke the Track Record set by Secretariat. Ruffian and Secretariat are the benchmarks by which great horses are measured. And Rachel did all while being eased up 200 yards before the finish line.

Jason, you told Dray that times don't play a big role in selecting HOY. I doubt that very much. Why keep Stakes Records, Track Records, World records, etc., if they are meaningless. The answer is they mean a lot. Everything. The one thing I really do regret about the Mother Goose is that Calvin didn't just let Rachel finish the way she wanted to finish instead of easing her up. If that filly had smashed through Secretariat's Track Record, I think that would have been the check-mate move that would have tied up HOY.

As far as racing with her own sex and age group, there will be fewer and fewer that will take her on, and racing against time and history will be the only opponent still standing. By racing against the record books she races against all the best fillies that ever ran in the same race, and every record setting horse that ever ran on the same track.

Jason is right that quite a few top 3 yr. olds have had their career's interrupted by lameness issues, and I love all of them. Quality Road, I Want Revenge, and The Pamplemouuse, and too many others to name have had to take time off or suffered career ending injuries. I wish they could all come back to soundness and eventually get to fulfill their promise. But the one thing that will always be lost to their credentials for year end honors is that they have already proven that they were not as durable as they should be. Durability should be a factor earning HOY. .

These other horses you mention that are going strong seem fine horses indeed, but their achievements are within the normal range of upper class horses. They should be on the HOY list, and they should pull a few votes in recognition of those achievements but, but like Calvin Borel says, Rachel Alexandra is not normal.

re: Horse of the Year - Rachel Isn't a Lock Yet

Mine That Bird Fan — Wed, 22 Jul 2009 05:54:56 GMT

I have just finished ready most of this blog and I am shaking with anger at the audacity of trying to compare the greatest horses of all time (Ruffian and Secretariat). It just cannot be done. RA may prove someday to be greater than Ruffian but you cannot besmirched Ruffian's record. She gave her all every time she ran. She gave her LIFE because she had so much HEART. When RA shows me that much HEART then I will say she is better than RUFFIAN. Draynay you should not be allowed to speak RUFFIAN's name. It is a diservice to a FANTASTIC FILLY. I was 15 years old when she broke down and I still cry at the memory of this great filly going down while doing what she was bred to do and what she LOVED to do. She did not want to LOSE and that is what killed her.

As for Mine That Bird being a FLUKE, Draynay. He will prove you wrong in the rest of his races. He gives it his all every time. The only time I saw him run a bad race was in the BC Juvenile. I am still not sure what happened there. Thanks to M Smith and all the rest that have defended this gallant, little gelding. He will prove all of you RIGHT. Go get them Birdman and RIP RUFFIAN.

I wanted to say other things about Draynay but like Auntie EM as a christian I cannot say such things. I will let Mine That Bird speak for me in the rest of his races. Good luck Mike Smith and bring him home for me.

I took care of MTB when he was just a little tyke running around and under his mom. I wiped his butt and nose when he was sick and I wish I could say that I knew he was going to win the Derby but alas I didn't. I must have missed the look of the eagles but I see it now.

I am caring for a 09 filly right now that gives me goose bumps when I watch her galloping in her paddock with her mom. She may not amount to much but it this sport you never know. She is a PA bred by Siphon (BRZ) out of an unplaced daughter of Street Cry. She is a beauty.

PS: One word of advice for Draynay, one thing I learned as a young boy is to respect my elders and you sir should respect the great horses that have blazed the tracks of the past and made it possible for us to appreciate the great horses of today even more. I love RA but you cannot compare her to Ruffian or Secretariat. It is like comparing apples and oranges

re: Horse of the Year - Rachel Isn't a Lock Yet

EmilioP — Tue, 21 Jul 2009 23:17:58 GMT

GunBow,

Yes the Deftones are a great band, and terribly underrated as they were a front runner in the nu metal movement. It can be argued that Pearl Jam was the best overall to come out of the grunge era, and that Incubus came out on top in the long run from the late 90s nu metal era, as both those bands continue to sell out shows and sell records today. Tool I dont consider part of a genre as they seem to be in a world of their own musically (Speaking in technical terms, there is not a commercial successful band out there who measure up to them on a musicianship level, these guys dont stay on the conventional 4/4 or 3/4 time signatures, they stretch the envelope going all over the place, so my hats off to them, they hit it big doing what they want to do, I mean Dream Theatre is excellent too but not a commercial success if anybody can catch what Im trying to say. FYI for anyone on the west coast or plan on a trip in august out west, Pearl Jam and Incubus headline the Outside Lands Music & Arts Festival in San Francisco on August 28, While Tool headlines Pomona Fairplex on August 22 with Linkin Park.

re: Horse of the Year - Rachel Isn't a Lock Yet

Convene — Tue, 21 Jul 2009 20:59:09 GMT

So far (and we're only halfway through), Rachel does get my nod for HOY. However, I reserve my opinion until at least early fall. In my opinion, HOY should NEVER be just about the Breeders Cup, maybe plus another race. The BC should be the crown on a stellar career. I'm happy for whoever wins the Classic (or the turf equivalent), but if that horse hasn't hustled around beating males, older horses, other 3-year olds and so on, she (or he) is NOT a Horse of the Year candidate. I think Zenyatta was a bona fide candidate last year but, for the very reasons I mentioned, I was glad Curlin got the nod. He raced everywhere! Zenyatta had had a stellar campaign last year. This year not so. Now, it being only July, that could change - but as it stands now, I'd give Rachel the edge. All that said, I think Rachel has an excellent chance to beat all comers and earn HOY. And when it's all over, I may have as much egg all over my face as anyone else!

re: Horse of the Year - Rachel Isn't a Lock Yet

Ed Cloos — Tue, 21 Jul 2009 20:15:38 GMT

Rachel surely is HOY right now, but if Mine That Bird wins the BC Classic he is likely HOY. Probably the case for Zenyatta if she wins the Classic. And she is maybe a more likely Classic winner because of the surface. Rachel is a true phenomenon, so she really deserves the honor/.

re: Horse of the Year - Rachel Isn't a Lock Yet

LAZMANNICK — Tue, 21 Jul 2009 19:03:05 GMT

What's slow or fast "Got To Do WITH IT"...Tina Turner.

Winning against class has everything to do with it. That's what should determine HOY.

re: Horse of the Year - Rachel Isn't a Lock Yet

steve s — Tue, 21 Jul 2009 18:46:51 GMT

THAT SLOW TURF HORSE gio ponti has no chance at HOY-silly TALK

re: Horse of the Year - Rachel Isn't a Lock Yet

RhondaH — Tue, 21 Jul 2009 18:22:03 GMT

There are a lot of great comments. Zenyatta? Yes, she has beaten some older mares but I for one feel that she needs to take the boys on and move off of synthetics to get HOY. I wish the Breeder's Cup would have not placed the races two years straight in California. Curlin would have won without a doubt had the race been on traditional dirt. Rachel, if she wins the Haskel again against the boys should be well considered above all others for HOY.

If Einstein should win the Classic, then he should be highly considered. A grade 1 victory on all 3 surfaces would be hard to beat. Besides, I am sure some no name horse from Europe will probably once again take the Breeder's Cup. Yes, I am one that believes the Kentucky Derby does NOT need international flare.

re: Horse of the Year - Rachel Isn't a Lock Yet

Draynay — Tue, 21 Jul 2009 17:09:53 GMT

Yes Curlin, I believe Rachel's 9 for 9 perfect year would be a better year than secretariat's 1973. Line them up side by side at the end of the year and you will see you just can't get away from Secretariat's 3 losses against very average horses.

re: Horse of the Year - Rachel Isn't a Lock Yet

Greg J. — Tue, 21 Jul 2009 16:54:33 GMT

I was curious, Is anyone here entering The Breeders Cup Betting Challenge?, Sponsored by The Breeders Cup and the Oak Tree Racing Association...

re: Horse of the Year - Rachel Isn't a Lock Yet

LDP — Tue, 21 Jul 2009 16:45:39 GMT

Saratoga AJ,

Thats what i've been saying about the Woodward. It gives her five weeks off, she'll get to test her elders at her best distance first, then if she wins she can go to the Gold Cup. If not let her take on older fillies and mare. I for one think she'd win.

re: Horse of the Year - Rachel Isn't a Lock Yet

LAZMANNICK — Tue, 21 Jul 2009 16:19:05 GMT

All the top horses, unless they have a legitimate excuse like an injury, etc., should compete in the Breeders Cup. It was always intended as a series of races to HELP determine the N/A divisional champions and HOY……the playoffs of the sport so to speak. And like other sports you can have a great season, but that alone doesn’t make you the champion. You must still take the final step.

The fact that the BC is on synthetics this year is too bad, and might be construed as the Breeders Cup Committee shooting themselves in the foot, but unfortunately that’s the way it is.

If a horse doesn’t compete in the BC then its year end championship status SHOULD BE severely compromised.

That being said, and as much as I’ve been outspoken at times about Rachel, if she wins out on the schedule that has been planned for her, her chances for Horse of Year SHOULD NOT BE compromised based on what an exceptional year she would have had (if she wins out).

Yes Draynay, she would get my vote if I had a vote, even over Zenyatta. The only possible conflicts then would be if Zenyatta remains undefeated and wins the Classic, or if Gio Ponti remains undefeated the rest of the year and wins ewither the Turf or the Classic (a possibility because of the similar surfaces).

re: Horse of the Year - Rachel Isn't a Lock Yet

StardustyRose — Tue, 21 Jul 2009 16:02:00 GMT

GunBow...

Tool and the Deftones are not that good. I remember well when Ozzy put the Deftones on his second stage. Those guys had to pay to play. Naaaaaaaaaaaa music sucks these days. :)

What I don't get is how did we get from music that has a lot of talent to noise that anyone can do? Oh well. I guess that that is part of life.