Quick Thoughts on Rachel's Historic Woodward Win

re: Quick Thoughts on Rachel's Historic Woodward Win

dr.fager — Fri, 25 Sep 2009 22:17:22 GMT

Sorry to keep harping on the holy bull thing,truth be told hb had so much more dimentions than cigar,one being a great sprint miler type with the ability to go 9 to 10 furlongs,also with the pedigree to exel on turf.I disagree with some of the statements on this blog,holy bull was a tremendous attraction to the sport of thoroughbred racing, prior to the time of him breaking down he was on every sportscast in the country,it sure helped that holy bull broke down the day cigar won, because there was alot of upset fans that day that victory not only vaulted cigar to national recognition but made his streak a media event,cigar to me was consistent but faced no good horses, he was sanwiched between holy bull,formal gold gentlemen, he had no tactical speed and would be making that one run, he couldnt catch skippy in the jcgc,he couldnt pass soup down the stretch in the bcc,he couldnt run on turf, he was always drugged out of this world,my opinion holy bull too fast for skipaway,too dominant for cigar,as far as formal gold, he was an andy beyer creation.holy bull wasnt only a great horse as a three year old he is comparative to seattle slew affirmed,and spectacular bid.cigar and skippy might have won more, but they also lost a lot more, holy bull by far the best racehorse of the 90s.

re: Quick Thoughts on Rachel's Historic Woodward Win

Vic S — Sat, 12 Sep 2009 15:00:18 GMT

Arkle, once again you are incorrect. Ghostzapper's 1:59.02 is recorded in the DAILY RACING FORM as 1:59. There are NO fifths of a second on here. Therefor referred to as 1:59 FLAT. If I had my way I too would also make anything over 1:59.00 into 1:59 1/5 but that is simply not the case. I have every single champion race horse's past performance by the official Daily Racing Form. 1:59.02 is 1:59 flat by Offical times.

It's ok about the Holy Bull leg thing I know the race was a long time ago.

Time standards(by OFFICIAL timing rules): ex. 1:59.00 to 1:59.19 is 1:59 flat. 1:59.20 to 1:59.39 is 1:59 1/5. 1.59.40 to 1:59.59 is 1:59 2/5. 1:59.60 to 1:59.79 is 1:59 3/5. 1:59.80 to 1:59.99 is 1:59 4/5. Obviously 2:00 is 2:00. I hope you get the picture. These are not my rules bud. These are simply the rules brought about by the offical timing system. The Daily Racing Form.

Examples of this Skip Aways 1:59.16 is recorded OFFICIAL as 1:59. Ghostzapper 1:59.02 is recorded OFFICIAL as 1:59. Candy Ride's 1:59.11 is recorded OFFICIAL as 1:59. Simple.

re: Quick Thoughts on Rachel's Historic Woodward Win

Sharon — Sat, 12 Sep 2009 02:53:03 GMT

I watched the replay of the Woodward and I can't believe that Rachel won in good style. She put on quite the show and answered everybody's question that she can race against the older males. She is a true champion and I hope she gets to meet Zenyatta. Borel rode Rachel with great ease and never made one mistake. He definitely knows this filly.

re: Quick Thoughts on Rachel's Historic Woodward Win

Arkle — Fri, 11 Sep 2009 21:48:27 GMT

Vic S: Sorry for the delay, I just finished laughing at your response. The word FLAT is reserved for the hyperbole of editorials and racing books. It has no place in programs or results, lest it actually occurs. YOU look it up. The official time for GZ's BCC is 1:59.03. To anyone in racing in America, that is 1:59 and 1/5. Great time, regardless of the extra fifth.

Honestly, if it were up to you, where would you draw the line in making that first 1/5 of a second? .05? .10? If it were that arbitrary, we'd all be in trouble and not understand the timing of races at all. We can't speak in generalities when discussing times, so we use decimals and/or fifths. That simple. .03 falls within that first 1/5. So does .11. Easy peesy, pumpkin pie! This is not a hard concept to grasp; I'm not really sure why I need to explain such a universal TB aspect of racing to you.

BTW, my local racing report was incorrect in saying that HB had injuries to both front legs, not the one. I stand corrected. I have heard little since he broke down, retired and won his Eclipse Awards.

I actually remember the events that occurred at that time, so it's very clear what happened and how things transpired. I thought that other horsemen were basically stabbing HB, a great stakes horse that they had previously supported, in the back. At least I did until I saw that race. I HIGHLY suggest anyone that doesn't remember it to go watch the Donn again. It may better explain my thoughts on the subject.

re: Quick Thoughts on Rachel's Historic Woodward Win

Bob Z — Fri, 11 Sep 2009 20:55:54 GMT

The Breeders Cup will increase the the purse by 1,000,000 in the Classic if both Zenyatta and Rachel are in the starting gate... Total to the winner would increase from 2.7 million to 3.7 million...

Is there any chance?

re: Quick Thoughts on Rachel's Historic Woodward Win

draynays better half — Fri, 11 Sep 2009 15:15:02 GMT

This blog has occupied my nay nay's attention for most of the year. Sometimes I am very very thankful for that. It keeps him out of my face. At this point though I do believe it is time for him to divert a little of his attention to me and the mutts. Poor flopsy, mopsy, and obama(recently re-named)have suffered from his lack of attention. Each one of them now sports a sizeable "weiner gut" that near to drags on the floor. They need daily walks and play time deperately. I too need some play time. dray's not abandoning his "cause" however misguided it may be. You are not rid of him by any means. I'm sure he will find some time to visit here and express (or vent however you choose to look at it). Personally I think he's still not over the whipping you all gave him in the handicap contest and is hurt by the constant reminder of his colossal failure. In any case he's mine and the mutts for a little while now. Take care.

Peace Out

re: Quick Thoughts on Rachel's Historic Woodward Win

Footlick — Fri, 11 Sep 2009 04:51:23 GMT

I have one other comment-sorry. Curlin didn't lose the Breeder's Cup Classic because he couldn't run on synthetics. He didn't win because he couldn't outkick European horses. Both the jocks of Raven's Run and Henrythenavigator said that all they had to make sure of was that they were in striking distance of Curlin because they knew he had no chance of outkicking them. The same would have been true if he had gone to the Arc. He would have been swallowed up. And remember both connections of those horses wanted nothing to do with Zarkava at any distance. Sorry for my long windedness and thanks for letting me post.

re: Quick Thoughts on Rachel's Historic Woodward Win

Footlick — Fri, 11 Sep 2009 04:46:10 GMT

I find it interesting that people are calling the fractions in the Woodward "blistering" and that she was "baited" by older runners to set a fast pace. I thought the pace she set was well within her ability. Dr Fager was baited in many of his races as a three year old. Spend A Buck was baited when he ran in the Jersey Derby and ran the first 6 furlongs in a 1 1/4 race in sub 1:09. Maybe standards have come down, but for Spend A Buck those fractions would have been a walk in the park. She's a fast filly and she sets fast fractions. She ran a great race. But if you are going to bandy about the phrase "greatest ever" then you are discrediting so many horses who deserve the title. Remember Buckpasser's three year old season? He mised the triple crown races because of a quarter crack, and all he did when he came back was set a world record for the mile, beat older horses and won from 7 furlongs to 2 miles. But maybe I'm just too old and I remember these horses. What about Damascus' 3 yr old year? Or if you want a filly, how about Dark Mirage?? Chris

Evert?? Davona Dale?? Twilight Tear?? Mom's Command?? To say she has had the greatest ever means not only has she erased these horses accomplishments, but she also has beaten better horses than those did. That's why Bold Ruler and Round Table and Gallant Man are talked about, because of the quality they ran against. Damascus beating Buckpasser and Dr Fager??? She's a very nice filly, but she not run against any competition that the other greats have.

re: Quick Thoughts on Rachel's Historic Woodward Win

LAZMANNICK — Thu, 10 Sep 2009 21:18:01 GMT

Fire Slam

When Monica V said that Rachel hadn't done anything.....it was with tongue in cheek.....If you would have read through her extire post you would have seen where she was actually praising her.

re: Quick Thoughts on Rachel's Historic Woodward Win

Greg J. — Thu, 10 Sep 2009 19:32:59 GMT

Thought this was an interesting response from Mr. Jess Jackson:

Q: People have begun comparing Rachel to Ruffian, the great filly of the mid '70s. Thoughts on that?

A: I didn't see Ruffian live. But, at the same time, she was a great racehorse. With Rachel, we are only halfway through her racing life. We hope to race her next year. So I don't know if you can compare them. She still has a bit of a way to go.

His reponse on a possible meeting with Zenyatta:

A: I haven't thought beyond this (Woodward) race. How she comes out of it would be very important. If Zenyatta had committed to the Beldame, I'd consider it, but the purse at the Beldame ($600,000, but it would be pushed to $1 million if both horses go). is quite weak I can't commit that I would accept the Beldame but I think Zenyatta has to decide first and what's in her best interest and I will never fault an owner for deciding to do what's best for their horse.

re: Quick Thoughts on Rachel's Historic Woodward Win

Fire Slam — Thu, 10 Sep 2009 19:19:06 GMT

MonicaV--

Your crazy. To say Rachel has done nothing, proves your crazy. Nothing else to say.

re: Quick Thoughts on Rachel's Historic Woodward Win

Vic S — Thu, 10 Sep 2009 17:15:36 GMT

Arkle, forgot to tell you Holy Bull strained only ONE leg.

re: Quick Thoughts on Rachel's Historic Woodward Win

Soldier Course — Thu, 10 Sep 2009 16:05:30 GMT

This is way off subject, but just read that Magna International and Russian lender Sberbank have acquired a majority stake (55%) in GM's Opel.

re: Quick Thoughts on Rachel's Historic Woodward Win

Soldier Course — Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:13:57 GMT

ABZ:

Thanks for letting us know that Ernie Munick did the Rachel-Saratoga video featuring her exercise rider, Dominic. I just love it, such an upbeat, fresh perspective. It's also up on YouTube.

I wonder if there will be a DVD composite released of all of Rachel Alexandra's races. I wasn't able to tape the Woodward Stakes, of all things! It would be nice to have all of her races shown together.

re: Quick Thoughts on Rachel's Historic Woodward Win

RhondaH — Thu, 10 Sep 2009 14:41:11 GMT

tvnewsbadge - If last year's BC had been on dirt, Curlin would have won without a doubt. That said, I understand Mr. Jackson not taking Rachel to the BC this year. She has proven to me already that she deserves HOY. Zenyatta is good but her competition has been much less that Rachel's. The two seasons do not compare.

Rechelle - glad to see you mention Pepper's Pride. I was there when she won her 19th. It was awesome to see. No matter what anyone says, that was a great feat. Yes, she never won a Grade 1, but then she did beat every race in her Class. 19 Straight Wins. Enough said.

MYYKKYY - thank you. . I too am one that does NOT want to see these 2 great fillies race. Yes, they are both great in their on right. Rachel is a Dirt horse, Zenyatta is a synthetic horse. Why can we just not enjoy there racing. I for one am thrilled that Jess Jackson intends to race Rachel next year. How great would it be to have two back to back HOY victories.

re: Quick Thoughts on Rachel's Historic Woodward Win

Soldier Course — Thu, 10 Sep 2009 14:30:16 GMT

Vic S:

Yes, you are absolutely right. The reference is to Russian physiologist Ivan P. Pavlov's bell ringing experiments with dogs. The dictionary also defines Pavlovian conditioning as "CLASSICal conditioning", which is amusing and fitting in this instance.

re: Quick Thoughts on Rachel's Historic Woodward Win

ABZ — Thu, 10 Sep 2009 13:28:55 GMT

GunBow and Soldier Course, The video was done by a friend of mine, Ernie Munick. He has just been named to be the video-blogger for the Breeder's Cup. Well deserved as his stuff is fabulous. I was lucky enough to get 7 or 8 seconds of my interview make it past the hours he cut out.

The atmosphere for the race was past electric, words or TV can not do it justice. It was pure pandemonium! Not since Belmont in the 1970s have I seen raw emotion like that and not since Secretariat's Belmont do I remember a crowd having that much adoration for one horse.

re: Quick Thoughts on Rachel's Historic Woodward Win

LAZMANNICK — Thu, 10 Sep 2009 12:55:03 GMT

Tim G

Well said.....the ups and downs of the sport.

re: Quick Thoughts on Rachel's Historic Woodward Win

Saratoga AJ — Thu, 10 Sep 2009 11:41:13 GMT

Gun Bow,

It's hard to compare those magical moments I mentioned to today's racing. The crowds were bigger in the 60's - 70's because racing was more popular then. 50,000 plus for the big races at Belmont and Aqueduct were common place. Especially on holidays like July 4th, Labor Day, Memorial Day. Any G-1 type race that included the handicap stars like Kelso were sure to attract a huge fan base.

But, sadly, then came OTB. And then casino gambling at every "indian" reservation around...as well as the expansion of Vegas and Atlantic City. And betting on football. It all affected the sport we love.

The fact that Rachel's appearance drew such a big crowd on a Saturday in September 2009, and got them into such a frenzy is amazing considering today's racing popularity.

Really looking forward to her 4 yr old campaign. Pray she stays sound....racing needs her. Badly.

re: Quick Thoughts on Rachel's Historic Woodward Win

Vic S — Thu, 10 Sep 2009 03:53:53 GMT

Ahhh, smart use of words Soldier Course. Palovian effect. I am interpreting you are talking about Ivan Pavlov correct. His dog-bell salivation experiment?? Yes, it is just as you say, Triple Crown gets the general public, its a shame that is all the public is interested in when dealing with racing.

re: Quick Thoughts on Rachel's Historic Woodward Win

Soldier Course — Thu, 10 Sep 2009 03:09:12 GMT

GunBow:

Yes, it is going to take another Triple Crown winner to generate the kind of national buzz for horse racing that we saw back in the 1970s. That is because the American public has been conditioned by the media to engage with the sport only when the Triple Crown bell rings. This Pavlovian effect succeeds every year because of consistent national media coverage of all Triple Crown races and backstories. The national buzz for Funny Cide and Smarty Jones far surpassed the blip for Rachel Alexandra, relative accomplishments notwithstanding. And that buzz has endured for several years. Just ask Three Chimneys and the Kentucky Horse Park.

re: Quick Thoughts on Rachel's Historic Woodward Win

Vic S — Thu, 10 Sep 2009 02:33:50 GMT

Arkle, 1:59.02 is recorded as 1:59 flat there are no 1/5 attached to it look it up. Offical chart 1:59 flat. There is no rounding up. I believe that we do live on the same planet by the way. .09 difference in time is not the exact same thing by the way. If you would like I could explain my reasoning for you, if not my reasons will forever be unknown, believe me they are very very justifiable reasons, for I witnessed them first hand. Any difference in a second makes a world of difference wheather it be man or horse.

We will not get passed the Cigar and Holy Bull issue. I respect your representation of Cigar. I will stick with Holy Bull so to continue the discussion on them is getting old lol.

re: Quick Thoughts on Rachel's Historic Woodward Win

Beverly Donahoo — Thu, 10 Sep 2009 01:43:56 GMT

Well, there's so much fodder on this blog that I'm not going even try to top any of the previous comments. Except to say, Rachel nor Zenyatta have any say in who owns or trains them. The two brillant horses have no say in any of the races that their connections make for them. They just try and do whatever is asked of them. Will the two ever meet? Probably not as the 2 owners both have reservations about one thing or another. Just enjoy watching two extremely talented animals do their thing. As for Rachel going to the front from the get-go. I would imagine that 1: get out of the gate and not get boxed in by one of the speed balls in the race and 2: She was primed and ready to go, and she does like to go to the front. Sometimes it's not wise to try and fight with a horse that wants to do that. Anyway, can't add anymore than what's already been said other than enjoy the two horses while they're around. Rachel and Zenyatta both are a pleasure to watch,

Bev D

re: Quick Thoughts on Rachel's Historic Woodward Win

Tim G — Wed, 09 Sep 2009 23:26:46 GMT

You know, reading some of the experiences of others got me to reminiscing.

Thinking about all the greats I've seen run, the last 3 winners of the TC in person, the claiming races and thousands of races in between.

I've seen the greats win, the greats and not so greats break down and break our hearts with them. Go For Wand, Ruffian saw their victories and cried when they gave their lives.

But good, bad and ugly every single bit of it has affected me.

Funny outlook I guess for someone in the medical field who has seen all kinds of human suffering. While that affects one profoundly, these beautiful creatures that run their hearts out for us can touch your soul like no other.

re: Quick Thoughts on Rachel's Historic Woodward Win

Arkle — Wed, 09 Sep 2009 23:20:25 GMT

Dr. Fager: I only said it was my personal opinion that HB broke down trying to make a move on Cigar. If you look at the race, that's exactly what it looks like. That's my personal opinion. And based on the fact that TBs don't generally suffer that particular injury while racing, that is also what I based my opinion on.

Vic S.: You really need to get over this HB infatuation. He was a very good horse, even a great stakes horse. But he wasn't Cigar. Although to the average racing fan, they may have been somewhat comparable in their racing accomplishments, Cigar electrified the public and brought many to racing. They didn't follow racing, but they knew who Cigar was. And even now, people outside of racing don't recognize HB, but they remember Cigar. That's something HB never did. That's just another dimension to his following.

I don't think other injuries compare to what HB suffered. It was too odd an injury. Again, I ask ANYONE, can you please tell me of another stakes TB that has suffered from pulled ligaments in both front legs, and under what conditions this happened? I can't think of any. I mean that sincerely, and I've been following live racing for over 25 years and reading about and watching TBs of the past.

The other horses that broke down that you mentioned broke down from common racing injuries. We see them all of the time. And Eight Belles broke down after the race, not during. Has nothing to do with racing males IMHO. I think her breaking both ankles is odd also, although a more common injury that we see overall in racing TBs. It's just unfortunate that it happened, and that it happened at that time. I wish it hadn't on both accounts.

Candy Ride - I'm really not sure what world you live in, but unless a horse actually clocks 1:59.00 it is not 1:59 flat. It is always rounded up to the next fifth of a second. Both CR and GZ ran in 1:59 and 1/5. But thank you, you just proved my point that they did exactly the same thing :0)

And I, too, have met both horses and seen both race. Kind of easy to do when you live in the NE and travel to KY at least once a year.