Stardom Bound: The Forgotten Superstar

re: Stardom Bound: The Forgotten Superstar

Horswld — Tue, 06 Oct 2009 05:21:33 GMT

Simplymajestic,

It seems that you are the only REAL HATER here. Who here said that they hated Rick? Not one person. DISLIKE? Yes. HATE? No.

Who are YOU to judge the HONOR of anyone? I don't think that you know anyone here well enough to be a judge of a person's honor. Your best bet is to check your own.

As a woman that works with horses as a career, I have voiced my opinions about Rick Dutrow and I stand FIRMLY by them. Why? Because I have a right to and I have a right to mention to other women that might not know, how Rick Dutrow feels about women in the horse industry, which he voiced on National TV. And I will speak OUT about what I feel is his poor integrity to anyone. That's just the way it is.

Any person calling another person's opinion pathetic is, well, SIMPLYPATHECIC in of themselves.

re: Stardom Bound: The Forgotten Superstar

Woodbine — Tue, 06 Oct 2009 05:08:21 GMT

i think careless jewel will win easily....she won the grade 1 Alabama by 11 lengths and had the worst trip out of all the horse...she wins the distaff easily only Zen can b a threat

re: Stardom Bound: The Forgotten Superstar

Shawn P — Mon, 05 Oct 2009 21:11:03 GMT

Collette I know most give electrolytes routinely in training AND pre race just as a precautionary measure, think that would avoid hypokalemia. I've been taught and I quote, unlike human sweat, equine sweat is hypertonic; it contains a higher level of electrolytes and water than the blood plasma. That means horses require attention to their water and electrolyte intake to maintain optimum fitness during intensive work. The conditions that we add electrolytes to the horse's daily diet are:

Intense training schedule

Travel

Increased temperature or humidity

Shows, racing, endurance rides, or other competition

Increased sweating for other reasons

Also fresh water accessible at all times and electrolytes given when necessary. They come in lots of forms like paste, gel, powder, and nuggets.We can easily add them to food or mix with water. The horses' like them because they're flavored as apple, alfalfa, molasses, and orange

water. Dad talks about when Gatorade first came out they'd put that in the water down in Texas when acclimating the horses to the humid heat. They didn't have the equine electrolytes like they have now way back then.

The worry too I would guess is giving electrolytes and causing hyperkalemia right?

I know that Mr. Frankel suggested that Ricky reduce Big Brown's regimen of Electrolytes before the Belmont and he did that. But all his tests came out fine so I don't think that was a problem.

re: Stardom Bound: The Forgotten Superstar

Shawn P — Mon, 05 Oct 2009 20:43:37 GMT

Simplymajestic

I really don't think one person on here said they HATE Ricky.

The inside knowledge merely points out that those who ARE insiders, those who were targets of Ricky's own HATE, have serious issues with him. They don't like the way he thinks he can say whatever demaning, mean thing he wants and just blithely dismiss it.

If you think people not appreciating that is wrong? Then YOU are the pathetic one. Get real here. If you had a competitor or a colleague badmouthing you PUBLICALLY, on TV and in print would you sit down and just take it? PUHLEEEZE.

Collette, I didn't need you to apologize at all. Just that Ricky isn't what some people think he is.

On the Lasix? I think it's fairly well monitored and some trainers, train with it, some just use it when hard works or on race day. But I think all in all the vets who administer it check all that out.

re: Stardom Bound: The Forgotten Superstar

ColetteMarie — Mon, 05 Oct 2009 17:24:49 GMT

Shawn P, I agree with you when it comes to Lasix. As you & I both know, it is NOT an enhancement drug whether a human or a horse or any animal takes it. There is nothing worse than not being able to get air when one's lungs are full of liquid. The panic I have seen in patients faces, when they come into the ER with congestive heart failure (fluid in the lungs) is heartbreaking. Their fight for air prevents them from even speaking. It always disturbs me when I see, in print, that with race horses, Lasix is thought of as an enhancement drug. That is what prompted me to post about Lasix on the 'The Final Turn' blog started by Graeme B, here on Bloodhorse. Too many people do believe Lasix is an enhancement drug.

When a horse bleeds, they don't understand what is happening to them & I believe as do you, that it is very cruel to let it happen to them when there is a medication, Lasix, that can prevent it. European tracks should allow it to be given, but with some parameters. My problem with how it is used in the racing world, here in the US, is that it is not used as carefully as it is in the human world. I could be wrong, since I am not in the racing community, but I don't believe a horse's blood work is drawn before they race to make sure their potassium level is within a normal range or that they are not too dehydrated after being given Lasix on the morning of race day. That is my problem with Lasix being given to race horses. I feel that replacing electrolytes after a race is like closing the barn door after the horse is out. Someone, by the name of Scott, responded to my post about Lasix, on the 'Final Turn' blog. He, apparently, is involved in racing. He said that electrolytes are replaced after the horse races. That is what I don't understand. I am happy that, as you say, most trainers know everything about Lasix. I am truly not trying to be controversial, but why, if they know that potassium is lost, to a large degree, when giving Lasix & that Potassium regulates the rhythm of the heart, wouldn't they give Potassium replacement before the strenuous act of racing?

Why can't vets give a Potassium replacement as the same time they give the Lasix? I don't know how closely tracks work with blood labs, but why can't vets draw a horse's blood on race day morning, before giving the Lasix, so they know what the horse's levels are. That would give them some idea if the Lasix will put a horse in a dangerous level. As I am sure you know, Shawn, there is a range of normal in electrolyte levels. As with humans, if the horse's potassium level is on the high end of normal, then the vet could comfortably know that the drop in level, after the Lasix, will not put the horse into a dangerous level. But, if the Potassium level is on the low end of normal, then it is a given that after Lasix they will have too low a potassium level.

The hospital where I work is the closest hospital, with a level 1 cardiac department, to West Point. We have, over the years, had more than a few cadets brought in, after strenuous workouts/ physical training, with prolonged runs of ventricular tachycardia(V. Tach.) There is little that separates V. Tach. from V. fibrillation (cardiac arrest). Every single cadet, brought in with prolonged runs of V. Tach., have had too low Potassium levels. They lose their Potassium thru perspiring & have not replaced it via Gatorade, etc.

Shawn, not knowing the exact potassium level at the exact time the Lasix is given is my only issue with Lasix on the racetrack. Would it be feasible for a lab. technician to draw the horse's blood at, say, 3 or 4am, get the result back before the vet comes to give the Lasix & for the vet to check the results & give the Lasix & potassium according to what the horse's values are that day? If this is already how it is done, then, I am wrong & I apologize. If it is not, it should be. It would be an expense to actually have a blood lab at every racetrack. But, its value would be worth the expense. The lab would really only need one or 2 basic machines, for immediately needed results. Other bloodwork, when the results can wait a while, could be sent out to other larger labs, as they are already being done now.A means to get quick results (within an hour) should be something all tracks have. Then, I would say, that Lasix is being given responsibly.

ColetteMarie

re: Stardom Bound: The Forgotten Superstar

simplymajestic — Mon, 05 Oct 2009 15:17:33 GMT

Colette, yes, no need to apologize as long as you now agree to be a RD-hater, we'd appreciate it if you would write 500 words on how much you hate dutrow to complete your apolegetic mission.

Don't apologize to these people. Goodness gracious, they have no sense of honor, to go blogging about how much they hate so and so, about all of their "inside" knowledge, about who is "good" and who is "bad" and if you don't agree with them.......we'll hate on you, too.

Pathetic.

re: Stardom Bound: The Forgotten Superstar

Shawn P — Mon, 05 Oct 2009 03:54:29 GMT

Sagerider2

Wayne didn't train his own QH's since he got into TB racing full time. His ex trained them even after the divorce and the last year he was in it Chris O'Dell trained for him.

He's 74 and has said he isn't nearly as driven as he used to be. He's definitely a lot more mellow and a lot funnier. His two major owners passed away and he just wasn't getting the good horses any more. I'm not so sure that he lost that many QH's when he was training them. Almost ALL of his QH owners followed him right into TB racing and stayed loyal.

TB's, he trained thousands of them and relatively speaking the higher the number you HAVE the higher the number you're likely to have suffer an injury.

Comparing QH, Standarbred and TB racing is like apples and oranges. The med rules are different. I think the new study on Salix is going to force the Europeans to rethink. The percentage of horses who had bleeding seems to be cruel to just let them bleed.

re: Stardom Bound: The Forgotten Superstar

Sagerider2 — Sat, 03 Oct 2009 23:20:14 GMT

Hmm, you seem to have misunderstood everything I said. So, I'll try again. I bought a retired 3yo Racing QH who wouldn't run. I trained him for western & english pleasure, 3 gaited and trotting races. As a member of the AQHA I got at reduced rates the Quarter Racing Journal. In it I would read about my horses relatives. I started noticing that this one trainer was losing horses on the race track. Other trainers would lose them in barn fires, collitis X, freeway accidents. Not Lukas. If what you say is true, that he was highly thought of when he left, I can only say, I was guilty of wishful thinking. But as for him running out of QH, there are millions of them, only a few 100,000 TB. When I lost Buddy, I got an Arab, and didn't get the Journal any more. But I had a subscription to the BloodHorse since I was 13. I noticed Lukas turning up and his horses dying right away. When my arab died, I let my subscription lapse. 10 years later, I got Sage, and started looking on the internet and found a lot of QH, TB, and standardbred sites. I also started getting the BH again. Now, a lot more horses were dying, not just DWL's. I've only seen Lukas once on Los Alamitos as trainer and owner, last year. His horse didn't win. He is never listed on the top 10 trainers or owners, either national or at Los Al.

As for the assertion that TB racing bans steroid use, I have the Sept 12th BH with the lovely Rachel on the front, on the last page is Graeme Beaton's "Let's Move Forward", (it's also a blog here), on it he states that 'The rejection of a ban on race-day furosemide (Salix) in this country is but one example. We are the only major racing jurisdiction in the world to allow it... Why is that?' And Salix "..that it dilutes urine so that it becomes more difficult to detect other legal and illegal medications". 1 month ago, in out of competition testing, 2 standardbred trainers were given 10 YEARS SUSPENSION for use of steroids. How's that for a vacation?

re: Stardom Bound: The Forgotten Superstar

Mike Relva — Thu, 01 Oct 2009 20:08:36 GMT

HORSWLD

I agree,I can't stand Dutrow!

re: Stardom Bound: The Forgotten Superstar

Horswld — Thu, 01 Oct 2009 19:09:05 GMT

Collette,

Just as others have stated, there is no need to apologize. Just because everyone may not agree with you does not mean that your comments and opinions here are not valued just as much as the next person. We all learn something here. And hopefully you have learned what a nasty person Rick Dutrow can be, if not to the horse racing industry to the many women that work with and love these animals. There is just no room in this great sport for a person of such poor integrity. And that, too, is just my opinion.

I, for one, hold you in high esteem because I think that you have a great BIG heart and a wonderful personal story to share. I wish you nothing but the best in life. So, keep on blogging!!!

re: Stardom Bound: The Forgotten Superstar

Tim G — Thu, 01 Oct 2009 17:03:29 GMT

Hey Collette, you don't have to apologize. It's your opinion and that's what these blogs are designed for.

I enjoy your posts. Loved hearing the story about the retiree and what Kim and Chip did for you and your son.

Just know that almost all of us IN racing love it with a passion, even greater than that of the fans.

It gets tougher by the day too.

Part of the reason your comments may have stung is YOU and your son are obviously huge fans, love the game. You are obviously a caring and GOOD person. (Anyone who could put up with us Docs and deal with CCU every day is an angel).

Just be assured that my comments were not meant to be hurtful to YOU and I'm sure Shawn's weren't either.

Not too sure comments hurt coming from some, just kind of fight with those and tell them off LOL.

However, it seems like we have to justify, clarify and show support to those who DON'T deserve to be bashed, more than we ever have.

re: Stardom Bound: The Forgotten Superstar

Footlick — Thu, 01 Oct 2009 15:59:29 GMT

Collette Marie- There have been many worse posts than yours and I'm sorry you feel you have to apologize, because you don't. The unfortunate thing in my mind is that the very trainers who get these violations also get very high profile horses. In my opinion, there should be no medication allowed on raceday-period. Any trainer who says they have no knowledge of what the drugs do should not be training. And thank you for telling us about your horse and your patient and your experiences with the thoroughbred community. I'm happy that you have had great experiences and have been able to do the things you do. Please do not be afraid to post on here ever!

re: Stardom Bound: The Forgotten Superstar

ColetteMarie — Thu, 01 Oct 2009 14:15:23 GMT

To: Tim G, Shawn P,& anyone else I hurt with the words I posted,

I am so sorry. My role in life is normally the peace maker. I go out of my way to NOT be controversial. That is why it doesn't sit well with me to know I have hurt others. I wanted to come back to this blog & post my apology. I may feel like I am a part of the racing community since racing is in my home, via television, every day & I daily read the news of the racing world. But, in reality, I am not. I should not have stuck my nose into what I do not have first hand knowledge. There are many here who obviously do have first hand knowledge of the various trainers and other connections since they do live within the racing world. I have never met R. Dutrow or even seen him in person. I suppose my tendency of thinking of a glass as half full rather than half empty colored my very limited knowledge of R. Dutrow. My position in good standing (I hope), within the racing world (in a very limited way),means a lot to me. In the few years I have been a racing fan, racing has been very good to me. A chance meeting of a racehorse owner, as my patient in the ER, led to me meeting a lot of very nice people within the racing world as I searched for his favorite horse, in retirement, for him. That led to a trainer giving me a retiring racehorse & shipping him across country to me. While he laid over in Kentucky for a few days, enroute to NY, the connections of other racehorses he traveled with took him in & gave him the rest he needed before putting him in a van for the last leg of his trip to NY. They couldn't have been nicer and treated me as though I was the owner of a multi million dollar horse, with daily phone calls & updates. The whole story led to an article being written about me in the Blood Horse magazine in June of 2008 and it also led to my then 12 yr. old son & I presenting the award, in the Winner's Circle, to the winner of the 2008 Man O' War at Belmont. Then, this year, we were so incredibly fortunate to be lucky enough to meet & spend time with Chip Woolley & Mine That Bird at Saratoga.

There are so many incredible people in the racing world. I have been very fortunate to have been welcomed into their world to the degree I have been. I would never knowingly do or say anything to hurt anyone. Posting about someone I really know nothing about was not the smartest thing I have ever done & that lack of information has led to me hurting some people. I am truly sorry for that.

ColetteMarie

PS: By the way, I was able to find my patient's horse. His name is 'Influent' & he is living a very happy life in retirement in NJ. My plan had been to bring Mike (my patient & Influent's owner) to visit him. But, it was not to be. Mike passed away, without ever leaving the hospital, at the very young age of 50 in May 2008.

Colette

re: Stardom Bound: The Forgotten Superstar

TexSpect — Wed, 30 Sep 2009 19:33:52 GMT

Hey, Don't Mess with DeWayne!

re: Stardom Bound: The Forgotten Superstar

TexSpect — Wed, 30 Sep 2009 19:31:45 GMT

Yes, I miss Stardom Bound. While I am here and in the frame of thought of missing horses or lack of news as such, Where is The Pamplemousse?

re: Stardom Bound: The Forgotten Superstar

TexSpect — Wed, 30 Sep 2009 19:21:35 GMT

Some horses are just like some people. They don't adjust to changes well. A happy horse is the best one. Maybe there was a dog,cat or something she was used too and the change is confusing. We just have to see how is goes.

re: Stardom Bound: The Forgotten Superstar

thoroughbredhdlr — Wed, 30 Sep 2009 16:35:55 GMT

My heart dropped as soon as I heard Stardom Bound was headed to "Duh"tro's barn. It figures nothing good has come of it...

re: Stardom Bound: The Forgotten Superstar

Footlick — Wed, 30 Sep 2009 13:26:53 GMT

Sage- I can't even find my post that you are commenting on! Senility I guess. But taking in the content of your post I probably said something like horses aren't as sound as they used to be. I would stand by that statement. With the advent of lasix and bute allowed on raceday, the medicated thoroughbred could live up to their talent. That means that they got the chance to stand stud. That means that they pass on their weaknesses. In consequence, that weakens the breed. I'm hoping for an influx of euro bloodlines to put some needed stamina into our breed. Horses that excelled w/o meds can still pass on bad traits, I'm not saying that. Buckpasser is a perfect example. Golden as a broodmare sire, he also passed on bad legs throughout his stud career. Northern Dancer is well known for passing on brilliance as well as flaws. But we have to strt strengthening the breed so we can start breeding animals that want to go 10-12 furlongs again- not trying to stretch 8-9 furlong horses to get those distances.

And Tim is right- Mr Lukas left QH at the top of his game. So did Mr Baffert. I think that is why they still feel speed and conformation are the greatest assets in their thoroughbreds.

re: Stardom Bound: The Forgotten Superstar

Tim G — Wed, 30 Sep 2009 03:51:01 GMT

Sage? That's inaccurate.

Nobody stopped taking their horses to LuKas in QH. He had just done nearly everything there was to do and it was far more lucrative in the TB business. Same reason Bob Baffert left the QH's, same reason LOTS left it. As a matter of fact, Wayne had QH's up until last year and the ones he sold at auction were bringing top dollar.

The BH doesn't report on QH so what is your point?

He was the leading QH trainer when he transitioned.

You do NOT have your facts straight.

Steroids ARE banned in most TB venues. LOOK at his and a few others violations over the past 40 years. Some of these younger guys like Dutrow have had MORE than some of the old time trainers in their careers which are 2 or 3 times as long as Ricks or Steves.

It always gets me when someone who has NEVER posted gets on one of these comment sections and states something so negative, inane and incorrect, then disappears back into the woodwork.

re: Stardom Bound: The Forgotten Superstar

Sagerider2 — Wed, 30 Sep 2009 01:11:51 GMT

to Footlick, it's not the horses. Back when Lucas was a QH trainer, I noticed an alarming rise in the body count, I stopped counting after 100. Then people stopped taking their horses to him, and suddenly he became a TB trainer. And the body count started rising. I said, he's doing something to those horses! After a 100, I got so depressed I stopped getting the BloodHorse for about 10 years. Strangely enought, after Lucas stopped training QH, they seemed to get better. I think if they stopped the steroids, they'd stop the dying.

re: Stardom Bound: The Forgotten Superstar

Tim G — Tue, 29 Sep 2009 19:15:53 GMT

Also Collette, I get calls all the time from 'people' in the industry who may want further explanation or opinion on certain meds for the horses (and themselves), my family members who are pharmacists do too (lots of owners).

Frankly a lot of the trainers I know are very astute about the meds, that's why Dutrows whining falls short with me.

I've listened to some race trackers as well as some rodeo people discuss the benefits/contraindications of certain meds and I feel like I'm at a conference or listening to a pharmaceutical rep, it's amazing the knowledge most have.

re: Stardom Bound: The Forgotten Superstar

steve s — Tue, 29 Sep 2009 19:07:36 GMT

I Dont like dutrow and his owners betting huge huge huge money on their own horses-makes race unplayable

re: Stardom Bound: The Forgotten Superstar

Tim G — Tue, 29 Sep 2009 19:06:50 GMT

Yes you did upset the kid and a few others.

Rick and two or three others are in a class of their own when it comes to positives/violations. It's not correct to classify others with him. Very counterproductive and hurtful.

The big difference between pet owners and race horse owners and trainers? Race horses are NOT pets in the big picture. We may love them, but they are very costly and to a trainer? That is their livelihood. Don't most of us take care of business when we depend on it to survive?

Many of my patients now ask about meds, have their own PDR's etc. However, the big difference in humans is they KNOW that we are well-educated in the whole process and have been brought up to trust us. Still that doesn't stop most from double-checking on what is prescibed with their pharmacist, does it?

re: Stardom Bound: The Forgotten Superstar

steve s — Tue, 29 Sep 2009 17:51:23 GMT

Just ask the people who claim ahorse off of Doug O Neil what kind of guy he is.

re: Stardom Bound: The Forgotten Superstar

Householder — Tue, 29 Sep 2009 17:11:09 GMT

LDP,

Where do you run her come BC day? The filly/mare division is strong. I think she needs to get a recent run over the track first...perhaps the Lady's Secret.