Guest Blog: Remember What's Good

re: Guest Blog: Remember What's Good

Affirmed4ever — Sat, 10 Oct 2009 02:08:58 GMT

Horse racing fans should be allowed to to be more involved with racing....i.e., have a real race fan give their Pick 6 picks on live tv, or have a race calling contest, etc. Or, how about letting the fans vote on the next Kentucky Derby logo? I have heard way too many fans complain about the poor designs. Who wants to buy an ugly Derby glass, cap, etc.?

Have artists submit designs, then put them on the C.D. website and let the fans vote! GET THE FANS INVOLVED!!!!

re: Guest Blog: Remember What's Good

LDP — Thu, 08 Oct 2009 09:53:11 GMT

Karen 2,

If you want to e-mail me or have a FB, we can become friends. I too have nobody to talk racing with, yet love to talk it all the time.

re: Guest Blog: Remember What's Good

Karen2 — Thu, 08 Oct 2009 01:02:43 GMT

A day late and a dollar short like usual..but I love this guest blog. Most of you have forgotten more about racing than I will ever know (LDP) but that is what keeps me coming back. Plus, I can't find anyone else to talk racing with me LOL.

re: Guest Blog: Remember What's Good

LAZMANNICK — Sun, 04 Oct 2009 01:50:29 GMT

Footlick

Funny you brought up Bret Hanover.....I was telling Gunbow about him on an earlier blog....He won something like 58 of 62, a legend.....I saw him once at Greenwood in Toronto....Totally awesome.

re: Guest Blog: Remember What's Good

Footlick — Sat, 03 Oct 2009 03:44:35 GMT

Gun Bow- the pacers and trotters in Australia- are they mainly mile races like here, or are they more like the Euros with marathon races?

re: Guest Blog: Remember What's Good

Footlick — Sat, 03 Oct 2009 03:34:48 GMT

Gun Bow and Laz- I love reading your discussions about the harness horses. I'm still back in the days of Bret Hanover- well a little more recent, but maybe a decade or two. I did See Muscle Hill on one of the racing channels though. Very impressive.

re: Guest Blog: Remember What's Good

Householder — Fri, 02 Oct 2009 17:00:27 GMT

Matthew W. Wasn't suggesting CC or Mr. Hot Stuff was in the same league as POTN. Rather saying on that track CC managed to be a little closer to POTN than on dirt. The same argument could be made for "Horse for Course" Col John. Keep him at Santa Anita where he wins.

re: Guest Blog: Remember What's Good

LDP — Fri, 02 Oct 2009 09:49:02 GMT

Tim G,

That is what makes America great. Another thing is too, the fact that anybody or anything can go from hitting rock bottom to rising to the pincle of their career again. Just because we have had tough times does not mean that we can't once again rise up. That is what also makes America great.

re: Guest Blog: Remember What's Good

helsbelles — Fri, 02 Oct 2009 07:54:36 GMT

Today was not a good day to be at Oak Tree at SA, since a 2yo broke down and died, and a 6yo was pulled up. I noticed that yesterday, on opening day, there were 6 veterinarian scratches (!), resulting in not a single breakdown or "bad step", although a 2yo did not return to be unsaddled and was vanned off after completing the race. Today there were no vet scratches.

re: Guest Blog: Remember What's Good

GunBow — Fri, 02 Oct 2009 07:11:03 GMT

steve s + Laz:

I was at Woodbine Saturday the 19th and Sunday the 20th of September. The big day was Sunday, with the gr.1 Woodbine Mile, gr.1 Northern Dancer, and gr.2 Canadian featuring Forever Together. For most of the day, including through the latter 2 races, the grandstand(lower grandstand) was about half full. Then, in the 20 minutes preceding the Woodbine Mile, there was a massive migration of patrons who had been holed up in the casino, moving outside and filling up the grandstand. Thus, by the time the Woodbine Mile went off, the stands were packed. Then, 10 minutes after the Woodbine Mile, at least half the folks in the stands retreated back inside.

So, the bad news was that about half the people at Woodbine were in the casino rather than the racetrack most of the day. However, at least a large number of these casino patrons were informed enough and interested enough to catch the $1 million race.

re: Guest Blog: Remember What's Good

GunBow — Fri, 02 Oct 2009 07:00:56 GMT

Laz:

If Muscle Hill wins out he's the US + Canadian Horse of the Year. If he should falter in the Kentucky Futurity and/or the Breeders Crown, it will open the door for HoY to one horse and one horse only, Well Said. Of course, Well Said would have to win his remaining races, including the Breeders Crown while Muscle Hill loses his. Well Said has been the Horse of the Month in 3 of the last 4 months and is 10 for 12 on the year with almost identical earnings to Muscle Hill. Thus, it could be close if Muscle Hill loses a few and Well Said wins out. If Muscle Hill remains undefeated, however, HoY is his.

It says alot about the two horses that Ron Pierce is adament that Well Said is the best pacer he has ever driven in his illustrious career while the equally successful Brian Sears claims that Muscle Hill is the best trotter he has driven. Additionally, Well's Said's owner, Jeffrey Snyder, says that he is the best pacer he has ever owned, and he owned 2005 Pacer of the Year, Rocknroll Hanover(who I saw in person win the North America Cup) and 1994 Horse of the Year, Cam's Card Shark. Pierce, Sears, and Snyder provide strong evidence to just how good these 2 horses are.

Are you familiar with a pacer named Mr. Feelgood? He's now 6 years old and was bred in Ontario. I saw him in 2005 as a 2 year old win the Metro Pace consolation at Mohawk and in 2006 as a 3 year old win the Ontario Sired Stakes Gold Final at Windsor. Anyways, he was sent over to Australia in early 2008 and was just named the Australiasian 2008-2009 Horse of the Year. Evidently, he has won a number of big races there, including a million dollar race.

re: Guest Blog: Remember What's Good

Draynay — Fri, 02 Oct 2009 04:18:57 GMT

I am really looking forward to the Jockey Gold and I am afraid Macho Again may chalk up another 2nd place. Summer Bird will not catch mud this time. I looks like a fast Dry track and I am going with Quality Road to dominate from start to finish. The outside post should only help. Quality Road holds off a late charging Macho Again with Summer Bird picking up the bottom for Show.

re: Guest Blog: Remember What's Good

Julie L. — Thu, 01 Oct 2009 22:49:33 GMT

Steve S. -

unfortunately yes the casino stays and the track goes. I don't get it either. And it will be called Hollywood Park Tomorrow minus Hollywood Park.

re: Guest Blog: Remember What's Good

Tim G — Thu, 01 Oct 2009 20:38:33 GMT

Hey, no problem Dani. I agree with some and enjoy a LOT of what you have to say.

Not everything of course, but that's what makes America great right?

re: Guest Blog: Remember What's Good

Tim G — Thu, 01 Oct 2009 20:36:29 GMT

Canadian racing and American racing? Canadian way of thinking vs American way? Even though we border each other? Not the same.

Availability of population to GO to the races in neighboring states? Not the same. NO offense intended, just a different culture.

It's been 10-12 years since some of these racinos have come to pass and it still seems to be working fine. Some of the ones I've been to in other states? The track is packed and the casino is packed. Maybe it's the limitation on # of machines and the overflow ends up in the race track part (but I doubt that.) The casino portion of the track is usually open MUCH longer hours and on days when there is no live racing and not much simulcast action.

IF it is handled and set up to succeed and NOT fail it will work.

People that are going to gamble? They're going to find a way to do it. The thought in most of these venues is that people will pack the Indian casinos, the riverboat casinos so if they're going to go to those and the neighboring states who HAVE it why would we shoot ourselves in the foot and say oh no, no gambling here at OUR race track. (strange wagering on horses IS gambling).

The structure of gambling crashing down? THAT is what drives horse racing. THE HANDLE.

The biggest most avid fans in the world won't do it, that's operating expenses for the tracks.

The only way golf and NASCAR can do it are big time sponsors. The only way the NFL, NBA can do it is exhorbitant ticket prices and BIG time sponsorship.

IF slots are allowed in neighboring states? The states that don't have them can't survive. Look at NM, AR and LA in contrast to OK, TX, KS and AZ for example.

If free standing or race track casinos aren't allowed at all? Those SAME people will still be spending their money in one somewhere.

Know for a fact that a LOT of the folks who used to travel from NM to Las Vegas (and it's a LOT of them, just ask my relation), just go to one of their race track, or dozens of Indian casinos.

Casino style gambling may come crashing down some day (well, it's been around almost since time began). But, racing is crashing down RIGHT NOW.

re: Guest Blog: Remember What's Good

LDP — Thu, 01 Oct 2009 19:16:09 GMT

Tim G,

Thank you for your post. You are right we do have our disagreements, and even though some have gotten pretty livid, you can rest assured i still have respect for any knowledgeble people on this blog, and your one of them.

re: Guest Blog: Remember What's Good

LAZMANNICK — Thu, 01 Oct 2009 19:06:49 GMT

Steve S

You're right about Woodbine.....there seems to be more experts there than bettors.....I also think the slots have blown their purse structure way out of line.....The large purses don't seem to be doing much to improve the Canadian breed overall, and they don't seem to be drawing many new owners to the sport.....You will have a hard time (other than a stakes race) finding a race there where the win pool gets to 100K for a race and yet they have allowance races for as high as 101K and tons in the 60-80K range.....My problem with the slots now is that someday the roof is going to fall in.....there are too many opportunities for people to gamble their lives away and sooner or later it's all going to come crashing down.....another thing is, Woodbine apparently draws an average of 15,000 people a day to their casino, and yet the stands are empty.

re: Guest Blog: Remember What's Good

LAZMANNICK — Thu, 01 Oct 2009 18:54:20 GMT

Hey Gunbow

Still off topic.

If Muscle Hill should lose before the end of the year, do you still think he's done enough to be HOY? Well Said has had a tough campaign, but so has Muscle Hill. Should be interesting. If Muscle Hill wins, HOY is his hands down and he is right up there with the best all time, no matter what gait.

re: Guest Blog: Remember What's Good

steve s — Thu, 01 Oct 2009 18:11:30 GMT

Too many peta members in Canada-they will put Woodbine and Hasting out of service soon.

No people show up to watch Woodbine races inspite of big purses

re: Guest Blog: Remember What's Good

steve s — Thu, 01 Oct 2009 17:46:17 GMT

I guess I should learn how to play poker but i know i would lose

their take-out rate cant be very high

re: Guest Blog: Remember What's Good

draynot — Thu, 01 Oct 2009 17:31:16 GMT

cmen0w,

Your insight is much appreciated. Don't be bothered by draynay aka "The Liar". He exists here to twist peoples words and argue. Some people have nothing better to do. Thanks again for your input, I for one find it humble and insightful.

By the way I love how you called him out when you asked if he has donated to the MacBeth fund. My guess is a resounding no. He loves to play high and mighty with peoples words but if he truly cared he'd be supporting that cause himself.

re: Guest Blog: Remember What's Good

the_wiz — Thu, 01 Oct 2009 17:18:43 GMT

Merely replacing faded stars with new stars isn't enough to insure the survival of the sport. That happens everywhere you go and in every walk of life. Horse Racing doesn't hold a monopoly on that and that doesn't insure a future.

You called Horse Racing "The Sport Of Kings" but does that really mean anything? It's more like the sport of the rich and famous. They are the ones who participate on every level. Us mere "peasants" are there to provide revenue. Those who don't gamble are merely "window shoppers". If you only follow the sport by loving horses and watching races then you aren't really doing much to help it along in the way of much needed revenues. Other major sports are similar in these ways but they have a huge number of revenue producing resources that Horse Racing will never have. The big challenge is not to produce more fans but to produce more fans who actually put money into the system. That's a tough sell but that's what is needed for Horse Racing to survive.

re: Guest Blog: Remember What's Good

Tim G — Thu, 01 Oct 2009 16:33:05 GMT

Jock fees vary jurisdiction to jurisdiction.

It's a job, a risky one, but like firemen, policemen etc these guys/girls have a calling for it.

Just like a lot of us who give up a lot of our lives to pursue our calling in life.

Racing rewards the winners, whether that's the gamblers, the owners, the trainers or the jocks.

Think a minute, you ride 3 mounts at $55 per, that's $165 per day minimum 4 days per week. If you aren't a regular exercise rider for the horse or the trainer's employee that's another $ amt per horse per day.

IF you win ONE big race? You make more than the average person on this board does in a year.

Most of the owners I KNOW, donate to the injured jockey's fund.

IF you can't bring a horse in WPS in a race and get that %? I'd say you're in the wrong profession.

These guys CHOOSE to do this. THEY KNOW it's dangerous, but they don't have someone forcing them to do it and MOST can't bear to leave it.

It's a danger to ANY person who works with these animals whether as a trainer, hot walker, groom, rider etc. Why do you think it's required at ANY horse event to have a warning posted that it's an inately risky activity? Why do you THINK these shows, rodeos and events all make the riders sign waivers?

Just riding around the ranch/farm can get you hurt. Kicked in the head, bit, bucked off. I know lots of cowboys who have been killed, broke their backs etc all for a cowboy wage. Dang sure isn't $55 a mount.

Just ask Dani how dangerous it is, even if you're doing it for FREE.

Just like bull riders. It's not just a job they CRAVE that excitement. Heck they don't even get day/mount money and THEY pay their OWN entry fees, risking their lives every time they get on a bull.

Some of the super wealthy owners can afford to pay jocks more (you know that in addition to the winning mount money, a LOT of owners stake jockeys, buy them tickets, give them a 'bonus'?).

But the average owner is already paying for the horse, paying for the care, paying the entry fees, paying all the other variables and getting zilch at most tracks if we finish lower than 5th?

Not every owner is super wealthy, not every one of us has money to burn. But, most of us are ALWAYS willing to pitch in and help in any way we can.

re: Guest Blog: Remember What's Good

GunBow — Thu, 01 Oct 2009 16:17:41 GMT

Sorry to go completely off topic-

Laz:

I wanted to respond to your comment about Well Said winning the Little Brown Jug and not being the favorite in his heat. I suppose the betting reflected concerns about Well Said on a smaller track, given he had lost to Vintage Master in the finals of the Adios Pace at the 5/8th Meadows, and that Vintage Master was coming off a dominant win in the Cane Pace at the half-mile Freehold. I also think some people had concerns about Well Said in heat races, something which If I Can Dream handled easily in winning the Confederation Cup at Flamboro near Toronto.

Clearly, neither the small Delaware Co. Fairgrounds track nor the heat racing affected Well Said. I thought the concerns about Well Said handling the small track were overstated; although Well Said had lost the finals of the Adios, he had set the all-ages track record for the Meadows in winning his elim for the Adios. The reason for the disappointing 3rd behind Vintage Master in the final was that Well Said was a little rundown following a month of constant racing, including a dominating win in the $1 million Meadowlands Pace a week before the Adios elims and the elims for the Meadowlands Pace a week before the final. With his victory in the Little Brown Jug, Well Said has almost clinched both the Dan Patch(US) and O'Brien(Canada) awards as top 3 year old pacer, and will likely be named top overall pacer in both countries, unless record setting 2 year old Sportswriter romps in the Breeders Crown and other races.

This weekend, we'll see if the great Muscle Hill can deal with heat racing in the Kentucky Futurity. Muscle Hill is going into the 3rd leg of the trotting Triple Crown having won 17 straight races, and wins in his heat and the final can bring that up to 19. That would tie Donato Hanover's consecutive wins streak. All that would be left would be to win the race that both Donato and last year's champion 3 year old trotter, Deweycheatumnhowe(a winner of 15 straight races and 22 of 25 in his career) faltered in, the Breeders Crown(elims + final). Should Muscle Hill remain undefeated and sweep the Breeders Crown elim and final, he very well might be considered the greatest 3 year old trotter in history, something which some writers are already suggesting.

re: Guest Blog: Remember What's Good

Tim G — Thu, 01 Oct 2009 16:07:18 GMT

Shoot me but I do agree with Dray (deep breaths now). Pressured into the synthetics without sufficient research, spending money that these tracks DIDN'T have to spend, only to be disappointed in the results and the tracks closing ANY WAY. Which is JUST what the anti's want, close EVERY race track in this country.

The subject of slots? Once again, 20 years ago Casino gambling was in Nevada and Atlantic City. Now it's EVERYWHERE. If we want to compete we need a level playing field. The misinformation that it increases the takeout?

NM (racinos) 19% WPS

AZ (no racinos) 25% WPS

LA (racinos) 17% WPS

KY (no racinos) 16% WPS

AR (racinos) 17% WPS

KS (no racinos) 18% WPS

Look it up if you doubt the effect.

www.horseworlddata.com/pmtrcks.html

THE BIGGEST effect if handled correctly? NM the best example: VLT's installed in Feb 99. According to the horse racing industry, New Mexico tracks paid $18.9 million in PAYROLL in 2001(after VLTs), UP FROM $4.7 million in 1998(before VLTs).

Total New Mexico racetrack PURSES were UP to $31.4 million in 2001 from $11.6 in 1998.

They paid an estimated $32 million in gaming taxes in 2002. MAJORITY of which came from the slots and the way the % that was structured.

I'm certain the figures are higher now because it's grown tremendously. All the economic indicators show that NM has escaped the worst of the economic downturn in housing etc so guess it must be okay.

The breeding program there offers some of the most lucrative incentives and they are OPENING tracks not closing them.

I think this has proven out in most states that have had racinos for a measurable time frame. (more than 2-3 years).