Sea The Stars Retirement "Unfair" to Racing

re: Sea the Stars Retirement "Unfair" to Racing

somaie — Tue, 02 Feb 2010 09:15:28 GMT

. Experts have talked about this before. How many times have you read about the importance of ‘adding value’ for your audience? How many times have you read about ‘building trust’ with your readers/prospects?

Many, many times. You know it well. Every marketing guru has spoken about this topic. I’m sick of hearing it. But it STILL bears repeating.

re: Sea the Stars Retirement "Unfair" to Racing

towers — Mon, 18 Jan 2010 19:14:29 GMT

Remember you comments about the chances of Zenyatta in the HOY, LOL!!

re: Sea the Stars Retirement "Unfair" to Racing

Katie — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 16:33:37 GMT

I cannot believe how much rubbish people take the trouble to write. Among the former there are about 5% who are true horse people and understand what's going on. No one has any right to expect a horse to go on til he drops! It's good that, at the end of his career, STS is still healthy and looking well. What do you want? That he is raced til he starts to have wear and tear injuries or becomes distressed and then be given bute or some other toxin to mask that and keep running to please the people who missed his early career because they did not know/realise that they were lookng at something ultra special and missed the boat? PLEASE!!! Give us a break and go and study some breeding books.

re: Sea the Stars Retirement "Unfair" to Racing

Debbie O'Connor — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 13:47:03 GMT

Emily,

I understand that people love their horses, BUT there a large majority of people who buy horses for profit, Horse Racing is a BUSINESS and what I was saying is that the owners of the horses have the last say about the horses future. Example, Rachel Alexandra, I'm sorry i won't see her run, but understand and AGREE with the owner's decision to let her rest. But really, it's none of my business what he decides to do. From what I'm reading in this blog, a lot of people are saying that HR does not have enough equine stars to generate interest in the sport in any enduring, sustaining way and that's a shame.

re: Sea the Stars Retirement "Unfair" to Racing

Becky — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 19:20:09 GMT

Everyone assumes that Sea the Stars is a legend already. To me, he is just the best "three year old firm turf" horse going in 2009. Who knows (or will ever know) how he would measure up next year?

Thank heaven for the far-sighted Jess Jackson that gave us another year of Curlin as well as a chance to see Rachel Alexandra compete against males.

re: Sea the Stars Retirement "Unfair" to Racing

Emily — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 18:43:43 GMT

PEOPLE PLEASE: Give those who love the horse a break. It may surprise you but THERE ARE some people who care more than just about money.

Be proud of Mr.Oxx's decision for no matter how you cut it he has put the horse first! And my dears

THIS HORSE has earned his way to retirement amoung the STARS!

Emily

re: Sea the Stars Retirement "Unfair" to Racing

Debbie O'Connor — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 18:23:17 GMT

I agree 100% with what you say. Horseracing is really all about the folks who own the animals, and they get to make the decisions. This one was lousy, but theirs to make. I don't think many of the owners really care about what the general public thinks, they buy the horses for their own pleasure and profit. Based on what I see happening today in the HR industry, the fans are the least respected, so how is interest in the sport going too be sustained? Eventually horse racing is going to go away, and that will be a very sad day for me.

re: Sea the Stars Retirement "Unfair" to Racing

LEON — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 18:00:50 GMT

The best idea I have read so far regarding how to keep horses in training instead of having them retired before the end of their 3 or 4-year-old campaign is this one:

Tax the stud fees of those stallions that are younger than 5 years of age, and channel such tax revenue to purses in the state or country where the stallions are serving.

A horse such as Sea The Stars was retired at his peak, after just a handful of races, to the detriment of the sport, the same way Smarty Jones, Bernardini and others have been retired.

Theses horses commanded stud fees that average around $100,000; if bred to 100 mares, that's a cool $10 mill. If a stud is only 3, tax the revenue by, let's say, 40%. That would mean $4,000,000 to be channeled to purses. Lower the tax to 30% if they start at the breeding shed before they turn 5, and there would be no tax if they are retired when they are in fact 5.

This way, there would be a better balance between purses and breeding earnings, that should result in keeping horseracing stars in training longer.

Someone named Paul in DRF suggested this idea...What do you think Jason?

re: Sea the Stars Retirement "Unfair" to Racing

Freetex — Sat, 17 Oct 2009 22:09:33 GMT

Shawn P, thank you for your comments. I will read Indian Charlie.

Carolyn Rogers, your words are the most poignant I have read for quite awhile.

re: Sea the Stars Retirement "Unfair" to Racing

Convene — Sat, 17 Oct 2009 15:44:03 GMT

You are right on the money! Here's another set of connections who haven't figured out yet that it's the HORSES who are the stars and the FANS (yes, even the ones who don't bet thousands of dollars) who fund the show. Retiring our stars before they've had time to reach their zenith leaves nothing for the public to get interested in. Look at the following horses like Commentator and Better Talk Now and my hero, The Tin Man, had - and the legion of fans who loved John Henry - because they were out there long enough for us to fall in love with them! Rachel at least has made a lot of starts and proven herself among the best of all time and has taken a break with the promise that she'll be back next season. Sea the Stars? Well, yeah - he ran some brilliant races and PROBABLY was a terrific horse ... or not. Heck, we don't even know if he's got some genetic blips that might cause unsoundnesses in his progeny. If I was a mare-owner, I doubt if I'd breed to him. After all, what good does a winning family tree do for my horse if he can't stay sound enough to race? Hats off to the owners/trainers who send out the oh-so-beloved oldies and give us someone to bond with and cheer for - and thumbs down to those who whisk 'em off to stud at 3 just in case maybe they aren't sound enough to last! Yeah, I know it's about money - but the shrinking fan-base should be telling us that it won't matter either way if there aren't enough fans to fund this game we love so much.

re: Sea the Stars Retirement "Unfair" to Racing

Ann in Lexington — Sat, 17 Oct 2009 00:48:05 GMT

Matthew W - It may interest you to know that Giant's Causeway was far from the best colt of his generation across the Atlantic. He wasn't even the best miler, having lost both the 2000 Guineas, the Irish 2000 Guineas, and the Queen Elizabeth II S. He picked up a few G1s at 10f while the real star of his generation, Sinndar, was winning the top races, i.e. the Derby, the Irish Derby and the Arc. Giant's Causeway passed on the Arc because he didn't stay 12f and therefore came to the BC.

Wendyg, you willful ignorance hurts no one but yourself. You can find his races at YouTube and other sites. In particular, look at the Irish Champion, wherein Coolmore and Aidan O'Brien ran four horses, two pacemakers and two classic winners, trying to beat STS.

I forget who said STS had to meet older horses, but all of his races since his Derby win have been against older horses and mares. The Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe is the weight-for-age championship of the world; why else would top horses from Japan, Australia, New Zealand, etc. try to win it?

re: Sea the Stars Retirement "Unfair" to Racing

Maisie — Fri, 16 Oct 2009 17:23:58 GMT

Thanks Footlick - I grew up following American racing as well as European because I used to get Pacemaker magazine when I was a teenager in the 80's and I've always been a fan. I have Beanies of Barbaro, Secretariat and Smarty Jones sitting on my desk as I write this as well as many biographies of your "greats".

I know that the majority of bloggers are respectful: it just rankled a little to see STS dissed by a small number.His season was stellar. It's never made much odds to me where a horse was raced as greatness is a rare, but universal quality.

I hope Rachel Alexandra wins your Horse of the Year. I'm afraid I've had to rely on youtube for most of her races but she was inspirational and I'm glad she'll be back next.

re: Sea the Stars Retirement "Unfair" to Racing

Footlick — Fri, 16 Oct 2009 01:39:45 GMT

Thanks Maisie- I grew up following European racing because owners/breeders like the Phipps, the Mellons and the Galbraithes ran horses in Europe. I do think the European champions get short changed here, but then many of our horses get short changed there too. People are just passionate- sometimes too passionate. I'm sure they don't mean any disrespect to a horse like STS or last year Zarkava. Europe runs a different type of season than the American racing season. But there are many on this blog who are very respectful.

re: Sea the Stars Retirement "Unfair" to Racing

Cindi — Fri, 16 Oct 2009 00:25:03 GMT

Carolyn - thanks so much for adding an important perspective.

re: Sea the Stars Retirement "Unfair" to Racing

helsbelles — Thu, 15 Oct 2009 21:47:20 GMT

Carolyn Rogers, you touched me with your post. I'm right there with you weeping when horses are hurt on the track and die. It would be interesting to know the percentage of people that actually care. If this sport should go away, I won't be completely sad. But... on Saturday when I arrived at SA, the sight of the jocks in their colorful silks parading around in the sunshine of the scenic Santa Anita walking ring on these magnificent creatures... it's so alluring. I admit it. My wish is that things could get BETTER... just get better.

re: Sea the Stars Retirement "Unfair" to Racing

Shawn P — Thu, 15 Oct 2009 21:21:08 GMT

Freetex, I've read it. What's that old adage, believe half of what you see and nothing that you hear?

I've been going to the races since I was 5 weeks old. My family has been in the game for generations, LOTS longer than Squires. I've seen the good and the bad. Even though I'm young, my parents and my grandparents aren't, yet I've still been involved longer than Squires has. Like you said EVERY SINGLE THING IN LIFE has good and bad. A dark side, that if you search hard enough and that's what your focus is? You'll find it.

I know Squires bred Monarchos etc, but his true business isn't something I hold in high stead, no matter how many Pulitzers he's won and his former employer has/had issues of their own. Chapter 11....

You know don't you that he's a breeder who 'sells' some of his horses at the sales?

His 'beliefs' about putting a breeders name on a horse at the sale and doing just the opposite himself?

You are aware HIS was the Larry Jones trainee that tested positive?

Maybe damage control, just a bit?

For most of our opinions on the guy? See Indian Charlie (the publication).

re: Sea the Stars Retirement "Unfair" to Racing

Freetex — Thu, 15 Oct 2009 19:34:51 GMT

To Shawn P: Yes, horse racing is hard for me at times, because of what I have learned and continue to learn... And yes, I understand, injuries can happen for the jockeys and the horses.

Of course, I respect and admire those in the game who I believe are ethical, and I still love the sport. Shawn, there are people in every sport who shame themselves and darken the perception of what's really happening behind the scenes.

To get an example of where I'm coming from, please consider reading "The Headless Horseman", by Jim Squires. Its an eye opener, for sure.

re: Sea the Stars Retirement "Unfair" to Racing

LDP — Thu, 15 Oct 2009 19:22:49 GMT

Greg J,

Thanks. I ended up finding it on the DRF. I know the owners of Cuvee Uncorked, and saw them yesterday. When they told me about how she did I wanted to see the race for myself. I was rather impressed with her, being beaten only half a length to a fresher and more experienced horse. Also little fact, Cuvee Uncorked had run just 15 days before that race. It's not that often you see that kind of a turn around, especially with a young inexperienced horse who is shipping for the first time. I used to work for the owners and know that if this filly has the talent they and I think she has they won't have any trouble running her in grade ones or even males. Cuvee is a good filly and if i were any of you I would keep an eye out for her.

re: Sea the Stars Retirement "Unfair" to Racing

Maisie — Thu, 15 Oct 2009 18:59:14 GMT

Really enjoy the blog and the issues raised even if I don't agree with them all but am a bit taken aback by the arrogance of some US racing fans. It was nice to read Footlick's posts: he/she was gracious enough to accord some respect to Sea the Stars for his brilliant season.

Just because I am a huge fan of STS it doesn't mean that I'm unaware of Rachel Alexandra or unable to appreciate her achievements. I really don't like the attitude displayed by some bloggers: "I've not seen STS and he's European so he's rubbish compared to American horses."

I've loved horse-racing since I was a child and part of the joy, for me, is to watch and savour great champions from around the world. Denigrating the achievements of a wonderful animal, simply because he raced on another continent is rather insular and childish.

re: Sea the Stars Retirement "Unfair" to Racing

Sayr — Thu, 15 Oct 2009 17:37:03 GMT

Pasturelands,

Just because one horse is taller than another, doesn't mean they should win by more. Surface and running style play a big role in how much a horse wins by, and Zenyatta and Rachel are on completely opposite sides of the table. I'm not here to argue about which horse is better; it's a discussion of opinion that has been beaten to death. However, saying that Zenyatta is inferior because she is taller and therefore should win by more lengths than Rachel is one of the more poorly constructed arguments I've seen. To the best of my knowledge, weight-for-height is not in the conditions book. If a true correlation between height and win margin exists, shouldn't we be handicapping for it?

re: Sea the Stars Retirement "Unfair" to Racing

Shawn P — Thu, 15 Oct 2009 16:53:22 GMT

My Dad and a couple other horsemen were talking. The gist of the conversation was: As this country becomes less and less agrarian, that is a fact since most of the younger experienced horsemen such as jockeys, grooms and even trainers on the track are now coming from other countries,there are less and less people to fall in love with horses and therefore racing'. Young kids, girls in particular love them. However, they don't gamble and they seem to grow out of it in most cases.

Just like kids grow out of hero worship for athletes if they have any to begin with.

People follow 'teams' and those 'teams' change constantly. Nothing much that racing can do about that. It's really a different situation than most sports in that it is driven by gambling and even a horse with longevity doesn't run more than 5-6 years. People don't really follow the breeding lines unless they're hard core fans.

To ME I really wish we could sell the game itself. The beauty, tradition, history, majesty and so forth. That way superstar horses could come in and run and their accomplishments would be appreciated in the time frame. Just like a team isn't winning the World Series every year or the Supebowl and just like the same players don't hold a fan to a team forever, the TEAM or idea of that team or particular game does so.

I know for me that commercial showing racing as not just a game but a way of life is very touching.

The movie Seabiscuit and Dreamer were as much or more about the people involved and the feelings of those in the game as it was about the horses. Insert just about any horse into the story and you have a great story. Casey's Shadow, Phar Lap, National Velvet. They all are about the human element, how they love the horses, how the horses touch their lives etc. Seems to me THAT is what we need to be selling.

re: Sea the Stars Retirement "Unfair" to Racing

Greg J. — Thu, 15 Oct 2009 16:03:10 GMT

Carolyn Rogers,

So true!, Very Well Stated and Thank You...

re: Sea the Stars Retirement "Unfair" to Racing

Greg J. — Thu, 15 Oct 2009 16:02:03 GMT

Pasturelands,

What? I think I read your post three times, I still can't find one thing that makes any sense? Oh Well, To each their own, I guess...

re: Sea the Stars Retirement "Unfair" to Racing

steve from st louis — Thu, 15 Oct 2009 15:53:14 GMT

I observe the Standardbred game with full fields running one mile over dirt each and every race on every card at every track The number of turns are the only variable. Why not apply that thinking to the thoroughbred game. Sprinting is America's game; why not card just four to eight-furlong races over dirt or turf at our meets. We're breeding horses for this style of racing, why not write that style of race on our cards. Breeders don't want cup horses; they breed for speed anyway. How many mile and one- quarter races are written for 3-year-olds before June? Few. Why not do what we do best? Breed for speed? How many quality sires are milers? Most of them.

re: Sea the Stars Retirement "Unfair" to Racing

pNewmarket — Thu, 15 Oct 2009 15:44:25 GMT

Dennis - are you for real?! European races aren't interesting?!

Sure, because galloping left handed round an oval racecouse covered in dirt is far more interesting than galloping on a NATURAL surface travelling uphill, downhill left and right.

Sea the Stars has never raced with a pacemaker. If you'd watched the Arc you'll see that the gaps weren't coming, he made his own way through and won easily. Most other horses wouldn't have stood a chance from that position.

I don't have a problem with people having an opinion on whether a horse deserves to be called great or not. But I do have a problem with people making blanket statements like "no European horse could beat an American horse" or "European racing is dull". It makes you sound uneducated and unreasonable.

Please respect our racing as we respect yours. Don't forget that Breeders' Cup cannot call itself the "World Thoroughbred Championships" without European participation. It certainly isn't attracting runners from Asia, Australia, etc.