Horse of the Year Debate--Why Do We Care So Much?

re: Horse of the Year Debate--Why Do We Care So Much?

DJ — Mon, 28 Dec 2009 20:39:44 GMT

Think about what your saying!! It could have been decided on the racetrack IF Rachel's connections had sent her to THE BREEDERS CUP CHAMPIONSHIPS where championships are susposed to be decided.

re: Horse of the Year Debate--Why Do We Care So Much?

robinm — Fri, 18 Dec 2009 02:25:49 GMT

I've come back to this blog several times to see what's been added. Basically, more of the same. There are some savvy horse people out there that can successfully compare apples to oranges and then there are the folks that have minimal knowledge and think mainly with their hearts.

Here's one question I'd like both groups to answer. 1) Do you think another 3 year old filly will someday win the Preakness, Haskell and Woodward? 2) Do you think another mare will ever win the Breeder's Cup Classic?

re: Horse of the Year Debate--Why Do We Care So Much?

LAZMANNICK — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 19:05:26 GMT

These are the fact, Pay attention

One other thing since you are so in tune to geography and like to stress that Zenyatta basically stuck to California (in hiding I guess):

Ruffian's career, with the exception of the Sorority stakes at Monmouth (a short way from New York), was excluseively at New York tracks, mainly Belmont, Aquaduct and one race at Saratoga.

Personal Ensign's career, with the exception of the Molly Pritchard (again at Monmouth) was entirely at Belmont in New York until her final race, the BC Distaff at Churchill.

I guess you can be classifid as an all time great without travelling around the country. LOL

re: Horse of the Year Debate--Why Do We Care So Much?

LAZMANNICK — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 06:25:43 GMT

These are the fact, Pay attention:

The reality check is that the Great Mare stepped up and defeated the filly champ the year before and then defeated her again in the Lady's Classic. Along the way she defeated G-1 winners Music Note, Cocoa Beach, Hysterical Lady, Tough Tis Sis and Life Is Sweet, among others, most of them multiple times. She ran a 1.40.4 1-1/16M in only her second start and was at the top of the heap after her forth start

Do you think she suddenly stopped being good from 2008 to 2009?.....The ease in which she defeated the toughest G-1 field this year after a difficult start should give you a clue as to how good she is. She was favored in the race. Knowledgeable, unbiased people actually bet tons of money on her because they were confident that she would win.....Some of the horses you mentioned had impressive resumes based on the body of their work, but they were no match for the talent of a better horse, a horse that recorded the highest ever Beyer for a route race on synthetics in N/A. The scarry thing about it is that Zenyatta is actually better on dirt.

Ask yourself, what did all those great male horses that Rachel defeated do after she faced them? Outside of Summer Bird, not much and we all know what happened to Summer Bird when he faced the reality check known as Zenyatta......I’m sorry, but any way you want to slice it, Rachel’s competition was a little lacking. The Preakness field turned out to be pretty bad because outside of Take the Points (2 stakes on grass), none of them has won a graded stakes race since. The Haskell field, outside of Summer Bird, is the same......The Woodward field was weak.....Bullsbay won a G-1 against an over the hill Commentator and Macho Again, and Macho’s G-1 in the Stephen Foster was gift wrapped because Einstein was in trouble throughout the stretch. And guess what, both haven’t even made the board since they faced Rachel in the Woodward, and in the Clark, Einstein, whom Zenyatta humbled in the Classic, in turn humbled them both.

Ask yourself, what was so great about Rachel dominating two set-up fillies in the Mother Goose? They knocked each other out running ridiculous fractions on a ridiculously fast track and had nothing left when it mattered? Tell me what was so great about the so-called G-1 fillies in the Kentucky Oaks. The second place horse ran her 1-1/8M in 1.52.4. Those were supposed to be G-1 horses.

HOY is so important to Rachel fans because you all know that her connections backed off when the real racing was about to begin. She could have gone in the Travers and didn’t. She could have gone in the Jockey Club Gold Cup and didn’t. She could have faced Zenyatta in the Beldame and backed out. Instead they chose the Woodward, the weakest of the lot......and you’re accusing Zenyatta of hiding.

The bit about Zenyatta hiding in California is getting kind of tired. And while you’re comparing Rachel to Personal Ensign and Ruffian, why don’t you also include Man o’ War and a few others.

Yeah, I guess I better check my ego at the door because I’m in the wrong company when it comes to talking horses with you.

Have a good day and LOL.

re: Horse of the Year Debate--Why Do We Care So Much?

jhorse — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 10:00:10 GMT

Zenyatta won four G1 races in 2009, not one. Anyone who wanted a shot at Zenyatta, including Rachel Alexandra could have entered those races and a lot of good horses did. Horses like Anaaba's Creation and Lethal Heat that a lot of RA fanatics knock as being "allowance horses". Well guess what, take Zenyatta out of their races and both of those horses are Grade 1 winners. Oh yeah, there was also a filly named Life is Sweet. RA's connections didn't even want any part of LIS or other fillies and mares like Careless Jewel in the Ladies Classic. I can't really blame them because RA was all out in the Woodward and stopping her season after that race was the right thing to do for the horse. I'm not going to knock RA for only racing on dirt in the East, only racing against 3yo or beating a mediocre bunch of older males that weren't good enough for the Breeders Cup Classic because those arguments are as phony as knocking Z for only racing in California on Synth tracks and beating nobody.

Both the Filly and Mare are all-time greats, both will win Eclipse Awards this year and both are a lock for the Hall of Fame. Their racing records and the great races they ran will be remembered by racing fans long after the footnote of who won the HOTY popularity contest is forgotten.

re: Horse of the Year Debate--Why Do We Care So Much?

These are the fact, Pay attention — Mon, 07 Dec 2009 19:06:04 GMT

Lazmannick,

The reality check is you consistently talk about 1 race, if you remove the one race what do you have. Basically nothing at all, I find it funny though that I give you facts and details that back up the statements that i've made and you come back with "She won the Classic", lol. Is there anything else that you could possibly say regarding her season that would interest me. Probably not though and I would guess thats why you have nothing else to say, you have 1 arrow and that arrow falls short of being able to talk about a true candidate for HOY. Summer Bird's Resume, More Impressive, Gio Ponti's Resume, More impressive, and Rachel's Resume and her way of dominating her competition is in line with conversations that invoke talk of Ruffian and Personal Ensign, true champions that didnt hide in Southern Cali and travel an hour from one track to another to win races that are unimportant. You might want to check your ego at the door, because you're in the wrong company when you try to talk horses with me. Now I will wait for your quirky response with no facts in it. Yes that's right, I'll Wait.

re: Horse of the Year Debate--Why Do We Care So Much?

LAZMANNICK — Mon, 07 Dec 2009 15:40:24 GMT

These are the facts, Pay attention

Get a reality check. What does the GREAT MARE have to do, defeat the Classic horses again for you to get it? She could do it in her sleep and if your knew anything at all about horse racing you would realize that.

re: Horse of the Year Debate--Why Do We Care So Much?

These are the facts, Pay attention. — Mon, 07 Dec 2009 13:26:57 GMT

Zenyatta in her four races prior to the B.C. faced all of 1 graded stakes winner in 2009. I believe his statement was that ““In the other races she won, she beat mediocre kinds of horses.” They were alot less than mediocre, they were horrible, horses that were competing in optional claiming races. And then they have the nerve to make a push for HOY, thats sad, and incredibly shameful, this is horse racing and you go and prove your horse is great by beating the best, not the best Cali has to offer, because thats not very much at all. I’ll say again those that are Zenyatta fans should really be ashamed to be backing a horse that won 1 race of consequence this year. I would gladly vote Summer Bird or Gio Ponti over Zenyatta for HOY because they both ran in much more impressive races and tougher campaigns, Zenyatta’s campaign is more in line with Pepper’s Pride than with any champions that ran. The fact that the Moss’s didnt learn their lesson last year with the cream puff campaign and big win gives me indication that they are consistenly willing to try to receive HOY throught the back door.

re: Horse of the Year Debate--Why Do We Care So Much?

LAZMANNICK — Fri, 04 Dec 2009 21:52:10 GMT

Pasturelands:

Your ranting about Carolyn is very condescending and is unbecoming of a gentleman. Furthermore, Carolyn has only been involved in the sport for a couple of years, but it is clearly evident that even in that short period of time she has already forgotten more than you know.

re: Horse of the Year Debate--Why Do We Care So Much?

carolyn — Thu, 03 Dec 2009 19:26:46 GMT

Pasturlands. If you would read instead of talk as usual. I was talking about Rachael going to Dubai, I have never said anything about Zenyatta going, go back and read, you have my blog mistakened with someone else's, furthermore, Zenyatta is retired , why on earth would I say send her to Dubai. I worry about your mentality.

re: Horse of the Year Debate--Why Do We Care So Much?

gw_bushwacker — Thu, 03 Dec 2009 17:43:19 GMT

So many here can't stop whining about where Zenyatta raced this year. Why are you people so blind?

A far more relavant fact is that all the plans had been made to ship Zenyatta East to face RA in the Beldame and Ra's connections ducked the meeting. There was no physical problem with RA in fact she was in great form. Stop with the Cali. only crap already, HOY comes down to two and if the connections of Zenyatta had there way it would have been decided on a dirt track facing each other. On top of that Zenyatta put it all on the line when they raced her in the Classic instead of the Ladies Classic where she would have won on a walkover. At least they had the guts to seek out the toughest races they could find, one of them never happened because RA's connections chickened out and the other which was even more of a challenge they won impressively.

Zen stayed in California because the only competition she had on the East Coast wouldn't go against her and the toughest race of the year by far happended to be there. What would it have proven for Zenyatta to have gone East to face animals she would have trounced by 20? Then all you would be crying she didn't beat anybody. Give it a rest, she would have travelled out of state and raced on dirt if the competition had shown up. It's not her fault racing outside of the state turned out to be not worthwhile.

re: Horse of the Year Debate--Why Do We Care So Much?

Pasturelands — Mon, 30 Nov 2009 12:22:01 GMT

CAROLYN,

I think MINORS are NOT allowed to blog here. LOL. Your comments below are HILARIOUS:

"JJ dodges like a bullet.." "Zenyatta CAN win in DUBAI.."

Zenyatta in Dubai?? LOL. ROFL. hahahahahaahahahahahahaha. Sheikh Maktoum will have A FIT if he sees that mare on HIS turf. LOL.

Zenyatta won't even CROSS into the next STATE, and you say she will cross CONTINENTS into the MIDDLE EAST? ROFL. LOL.

JJ can "dodge" LIKE a bullet. Since WHEN do bullets dodge anything?

HAHA. With Fans like you, who needs enemies? LOL

re: Horse of the Year Debate--Why Do We Care So Much?

tcc — Fri, 27 Nov 2009 22:35:50 GMT

Greg J.

Race #7 Aqueduct

#7461

#7476

#7481

re: Horse of the Year Debate--Why Do We Care So Much?

LDP — Fri, 27 Nov 2009 00:51:27 GMT

Carolyn,

Personally, it is not the surface that bugs me, it is the fact she never once raced outside of Cali this year. I've said how many states and tracks RA has run at about ten thousand times to ten thousand different ppl, so I really don't feel like reiterating it all. The reason she should get Older Female, is because no one female in the east dominated that division so completely as she did in the west. IMO, the award is about dominace over a division and the actuall toughness of campaign. Both fillies dominated females with ease, but what seperates them for me is RA not only took on the boys three times and won, but she did it at three different tracks, one being the Graveyard of Champions. Incase you didn't know, since your newer, the reason it is called that is because champions like Man o War and Secretariat lost there, and so have many other champions.

Now I will say I HATE synthetics, with a passion. I don't see the need for them when you have a perfectly good example like Saratoga showing that a well mantained dirt course is even safer than synthetics. Saratoga, just to make it clear, has had less fatal breakdowns, two, in two years than any of the Cali track in one year.

As I said, for me, even though I can't stand the surface, it does not determine who I like or favor. I have liked a couple of Cali horses for the Derby the last couple of years, Colonel John and POTN are the last two. This year I love Lookin at Lucky and American Lion. On the east I like Jackson Bend. So two of my top three are from Cali and run on synthetics.

It is not the surface that determines my opinion, it's the overall season.

re: Horse of the Year Debate--Why Do We Care So Much?

Greg J. — Fri, 27 Nov 2009 00:35:35 GMT

tcc,

Audible called...

Nov. 28, Aqueduct, Race #3, #7516

re: Horse of the Year Debate--Why Do We Care So Much?

carolyn — Thu, 26 Nov 2009 23:40:52 GMT

Something I can't understand Jason? Everyone (RA fans) wants to see Zenyatta get "Champion Older Female " award, but not HOTY. Whats the difference? If you are going to say the surface, then why even honor Zenyatta at all. The surface doesn't matter for older female award, but it does for HOTY, Come on, I want someone, or anyone on this blog to answer that, because everyone keeps speaking of dirt racing. Well, why even consider California racing horses at all. If Zenyatta is good enough to get the champion older female award running on Synthetics, then she is definitly good enough to get HOTY on synthetics. Now, eveyone will say, Oh, it's not the surface, it's the most races raced in the year, Well, to late because all I have heard was the surfaces. Dirt over Synthetics. I say, if this is the case, then the Eclipse's need to strike any horse that is up for any of the awards, that are in California, If she is good enough for one, she is good enough for the other.

re: Horse of the Year Debate--Why Do We Care So Much?

Zaskar — Thu, 26 Nov 2009 13:38:28 GMT

The Moss's conservative approach is the reason there's a debate at all. If they decided to run Zenyatta (and we'll assume she would have won) against the boys in either the Goodwin or the Pacific Classic, she would be the 2009 HOY. BUT they didn't - it wasn't even announced the Z Lady would run in the BC Classic until the day of the draw (what were they waiting for?). Simply put - RACHEL ALEXANDRA earned it. She faced the boys three time - traveled 2800 miles (seven tracks/six states/two time zones)during her 2009 campaign - doing what it took 'find' the competition as opposed to the Z Lady who travled a grand total of 258 miles - training only one track all year - staying in her comfort zone. What was RA's home track? Did she have one? The Jackson's took her where she needed to go to win and prove she's the best horse in the world. Sorry - Sea the Stars. Remember that 'Wow' factor we had for Zenyatta after her brilliant win in the Classic - well, WE all had that feeling for RA after her Preakness, Haskell and Woodard wins.

And this is about 2009 - not Zenyatta's perfect career because at the same stages of their career, Zenyatt's first life-time start came in Nov. of her 3-yr old season and - well, you know what RA has accomplished by then.

Why do I care? Because RA fans know it's the AMERICAN WAY that if you work hard, you should be rewarded for your efforts.

re: Horse of the Year Debate--Why Do We Care So Much?

tcc — Thu, 26 Nov 2009 04:02:57 GMT

Greg J.

#7345 is at the Fairgronds

re: Horse of the Year Debate--Why Do We Care So Much?

tcc — Thu, 26 Nov 2009 03:51:14 GMT

Thanks Greg J.

Didn't look past R #11

re: Horse of the Year Debate--Why Do We Care So Much?

Greg J. — Thu, 26 Nov 2009 00:16:36 GMT

tcc,

Race 12, #7516...

re: Horse of the Year Debate--Why Do We Care So Much?

LAZMANNICK — Thu, 26 Nov 2009 00:12:01 GMT

Footlick:

One thing I've seen is that horses that race at Woodbine have done well in stakes races at Turfway so maybe the surfaces on those tracks are pretty close too.

re: Horse of the Year Debate--Why Do We Care So Much?

tcc — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 21:51:48 GMT

2 year olds that are on Wynn's Kentucky Derby Future List,that are entered at Churchill this Saturday (11-28).

Race #5

#7339

#7407

#7439

#7454

Race #6

#7527

#7499

#7482

Race #11

#7408

#7412

#7528

#7478

#7520

#7513

#7301

re: Horse of the Year Debate--Why Do We Care So Much?

John Horton, Jr. — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 21:21:21 GMT

They've both had undefeated season's, and Zenyatta has ended with an undefeated career. Hard to imagine that the only filly-mare ever to win the Breeders Cup Classic, against a field of male's that 10 fold surpasses the three combined male field's that Rachel raced, and at a distance that only Zenyatta of the two has raced, 1-1/4, would again be denied HOY. That'll sure be hard to explain away 15 or 20 year's from now. Why an undefeated race mare that beat the best colt's in not only the U.S., but from Europe as well in racing's biggest event, on racing's biggest stage, and finished undefeated didn't get HOY. Nothing Rachel has accomplished this year should or does override that.

re: Horse of the Year Debate--Why Do We Care So Much?

Footlick — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 21:02:57 GMT

I want to say that Woodbine, Keenland and Arlington are pretty similar. The California tracks as far as the comments I've read from trainers are very different from each other. Everyone have a great Thanksgiving!

re: Horse of the Year Debate--Why Do We Care So Much?

LAZMANNICK — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 20:15:10 GMT

Mike Relva

Same to you and everyone else.