Guest Blog: Q&A With Eight Belles Owner Rick Porter

re: Guest Blog: Q&A With Eight Belles Owner Rick Porter

Convene — Sat, 16 Jan 2010 01:02:08 GMT

Well said, Tim G. I tip my hat to you. Funny how many people don't know that word, "happenstance." It's a thorn in everyone's side - but it exists and, as with Eight Belles - and St. Liam - sometimes it brings tears. Thank you for inserting your cool logic into another feeding frenzy.

re: Guest Blog: Q&A With Eight Belles Owner Rick Porter

Tim G — Mon, 04 Jan 2010 16:24:05 GMT

Those most involved in racing will dispute your opinion. Why? Because it's negative and you have nothing constructive to say. You reference to an article to support YOUR beliefs, you question Rick and Larry's integrity and ability to judge a horse and the best path for that horse.

You question a veterinarian that has probably seen more race horses, races and treated more injuries than your source could imagine.

Your character assailed? What do you expect when you attack the integrity of several of the most respected people in the game?

People with pure motives of helping our industry don't take the stance you took, don't question people on the basis of 'reading' and no practical experience or intimate knowledge of the subject matter or ANY of the scientific information involved.

People, with agendas similar to yours are the same who attacked Larry, Gabriel and Rick with their overly emotional baseless venom.

First it was Gabe’s fault, then it was Larry’s, then it was drugs, then it was a pre-existing condition. All of which have been systematically negated one by one.

There's just one weak thought process on here, only one with an agenda to RUIN an article that spoke about HOW an actual race horse owner felt about his horse.

Think we all know who that one person is.

Ignorance? Lets see your DVM, MD , PharmD or any comparable credentials that qualify YOU to make that statement.

We want racing to continue, those like you want to modify it to fit your narrow little window of make believe where everything is wonderful and nothing bad ever happens out of PURE happenstance.

Personally, I think you got enough negativity through the moderators. Funny you only show up to talk about the negative aspects, never the positive????????

re: Guest Blog: Q&A With Eight Belles Owner Rick Porter

stardustyrose — Mon, 04 Jan 2010 16:16:16 GMT

Hi Everyone. UP-Date on the video list. If you have a horse to add, please add it today. :) And I made this vid for of the TC winners if no-one has seen it.

www.youtube.com/watch

I am looking for a good song for this next one cause there are A LOT of horses. :)

Hope your all well........

Curlin

Tiznow

WITH ANTICIPATION

The Tinman

Better Talk Now

Evening Attire

Kona Gold

Buckpasser

Native Dancer

Awesome Again

Ghostzapper

Zenyatta

MEGAHERTZ

Northern Dancer

Dr. Fagar

DAMASCUS

DARK MIRAGE

Seabuiscut

John Henry

Lava Man

Eight Belles

Barbaro

Cigar

Easy Goer

Foolish Pleasure

Forego

Go For Wand

Holy Bull

Spectacular Bid

Victory Gallop

Danzing

AP Indy

Winning Colors

re: Guest Blog: Q&A With Eight Belles Owner Rick Porter

sceptre — Sat, 02 Jan 2010 23:51:33 GMT

I certainly hope that the opinions expressed by many who contributed to this blog are not indicative of the majority of its readers, or more importantly, those most involved in thoroughbred racing/breeding. Should it be otherwise, I see little hope for constructive change, or long term survival of thoroughbred racing. Too many here have employed the same weak thought processes in attempting to refute my remarks as they have in assailing my character/motives. Know also that several of my posts were denied by the moderator, allowing others instead to color my message to their own agendas.

re: Guest Blog: Q&A With Eight Belles Owner Rick Porter

Tim G — Fri, 01 Jan 2010 21:06:17 GMT

Stardustyrose, I know, I was kidding. Bet Sceptre wouldn't hesistate to suggest it, probably would give me a little push. We all know its killer when someone who knows a particular field actually gives the facts.

Rachel A, I've been around and in the game a very long time, long enough to have Sceptre (Spectre) pegged from the get go. She doesn't anger me, just makes me laugh because I deal with others orthopedic and medical issues every day, albeit humans it's similar enough that it's easy comparable particularly when a bloodtest they want to use on equines, is in use for humans.

re: Guest Blog: Q&A With Eight Belles Owner Rick Porter

sceptre — Fri, 01 Jan 2010 05:53:41 GMT

Ignorance, and its handmaidens, intolerance, narrow-mindedness, selfishness, etc. are opponents often not easily defeated. As one who's been a lifelong participant in this industry and desires its survival (with extensive modifications), I must say that if many of the comments expressed here are indicative of the industry's majority there is little hope for the horse, not to mention the industry itself. One day rational minds will prevail, and unless before then those in authority institute a far more educated and ethical approach horse racing as we know it will be gone. At the moment, I see little justification for its survival, but for the fact that without it less horses would exist.

re: Guest Blog: Q&A With Eight Belles Owner Rick Porter

stardustyrose — Thu, 31 Dec 2009 06:42:36 GMT

Hey Everyone Update... on the video.

OK the TC winners are posted. Here is the other updated list. The horses that are in BIG letters are the ones I have not yet found pics of :(. I have a couple hundred at least of the ones below. LOLOLOL! I want to make it CLEAR that I am taking no credit for any of these pictures in this video that I am making......... :)

Curlin

Tiznow

WITH ANTICIPATION

The Tinman

Better Talk Now

Evening Attire

Kona Gold

Buckpasser

Native Dancer

Awesome Again

Ghostzapper

Zenyatta

MEGAHERTZ

Northern Dancer

DR. FAGAR

DAMASCUS

DARK MIRAGE

Seabuiscut

John Henry

Lava Man

Eight Belles

Barbaro

Cigar

Easy Goer

Foolish Pleasure

Forego

Go For Wand

Holy Bull

Spectacular Bid

Victory Gallop

Danzing

AP Indy

Winning Colors

re: Guest Blog: Q&A With Eight Belles Owner Rick Porter

Rachel Alexandra — Thu, 31 Dec 2009 01:42:10 GMT

Dear Bloodhorse, Tim G. and all- be warned! Sceptre likely aka "soothsayer" at Daily Kos (led stop racing Lava Man campaign there) and Save The Horses of the MSNBC Hate Horse Racing ruled forum only exists to stir discontent to bring about social revolutions. Be they ending animal use, changing the "property paradigm" so that animals have legal rights, desperately trying to inject it's brand of social "science" (???) into the legal system, or even repeatedly stoking the fires of reverse racism. Sceptre's goal is to inject doubt, forced angry confrontations to highlight it's causes, constant accusations of racehorse abuse (no basis in fact necessary, the accusation alone will draw the wanted attention), and overall social conditioning for the masses that horse racing is full of cruel animal abusers.

Spectre wants to outrage and anger you to draw attention to it's cause. That's the whole point, to rub a community raw and make horse abuse the center of attention. Spectre masquerades as a racehorse welfare advocate as it slyly hints of it's endless documentation of more and more and more racehorse abuse. Spectre has been trying to crucify Larry Jones for the last two years, and delighting in the shocked response by others who care about this good man. The only way to defeat Spectre and other horse racing haters is to identify their game plan, ignore it, and laugh at their radical attempts to destroy a whole industry and the people in it. If you engage Spectre, you give it what it wants- a long discussion of the topic of it's choice. Please help protect our industry and it's people from this organized attempt to control the dialogue and turn the racing community on it's own people. Remember Eight Belles as a good filly, not a vehicle for PETA pals to brainwash a nation. There are many sceptres out there trying to gain control of the minds of the weak and uneducated, and unfortunately they are winning. We can change the game when we know their methods and stop playing by their rules.

re: Guest Blog: Q&A With Eight Belles Owner Rick Porter

stardustyrose — Wed, 30 Dec 2009 21:56:53 GMT

UPDATE on the video......

OK you guys..... I have the TC winners. I am still working on finding all of their statues. Geeeeeeeeeesh LOL. In case some of you would like to know who they are? ;-)Also, if you have a favortite pic of one of these 11 TC winners, shoot it at me (may already have it) and I will try to add it.

1919 Sir Barton

1930 Gallant Fox

1935 Omaha

1937 War Admiral

1941 Whirlaway

1943 Count Fleet

1946 Assault

1948 Citation

1973 Secretariat

1977 Seattle Slew

1978 Affirmed

I have quite a few pics of them and so now it is on to the horses on the list......... Hope your all doing well........

re: Guest Blog: Q&A With Eight Belles Owner Rick Porter

stardustyrose — Wed, 30 Dec 2009 19:38:08 GMT

OK I ran into a speed bump. Can't find any pics of ♥With Anticipation♥ Someone please give me a link..... :) I am going to start on this today. I am going to take my time....... LOL.... Soooooooooooo be patient....:)

Love you all..........

♥Eight Belles♥

re: Guest Blog: Q&A With Eight Belles Owner Rick Porter

stardustyrose — Wed, 30 Dec 2009 17:26:42 GMT

Tim G... Of course I am not suggesting that you fall down a flight of stairs. I am just saying that there have been many times that I have taken a bad step and fell in many places and not had a pre-existing condition in whatever broke. When I got hurt that day walking my dog, she jerked on the leash and it pulled my shoulder out of wack. I am just saying that an injury can happen anytime. With athletes it is way more common. Eight Belles was a athlete. :)

EightBelles134... What about Zenyatta? :(

List.....

Curlin

Tiznow

Xtra Heat

With Anticipation

The Tinman

Better Talk Now

Evening Attire

Kona Gold

Buckpasser

NATIVE DANCER!

Awesome Again

Ghostzapper

Zenyatta

Megahertz

NORTHERN DANCER,

DR. FAGAR

DAMASCUS

Dark Mirage

God Bless you all...... As I said, if you have favorite pics of these horses it would be great to have a link so that I can use that pic. :) Some of these horses I have never heard of hahahahahaha. That must have been when I was in Asia for a decade...... ;-)

God Bless You all.......

re: Guest Blog: Q&A With Eight Belles Owner Rick Porter

whoapony — Wed, 30 Dec 2009 16:03:31 GMT

To suggest that Larry Jones galloping the filly made Eight Belles more likely to break down is laughable. If anything, the strength needed to carry the extra weight was an asset, not a detriment. Weight is not the major factor that determines whether or not a horse can carry a load - balance is. Larry Jones is a balanced, experienced rider. He is less likely to cause damage than a lighter rider who is less balanced. Plus, sometimes you can feel things on a horse's back that you just can't see from the ground. But sometimes, even with the best in preventative care, accidents happen. That was the case with Eight Belles.

re: Guest Blog: Q&A With Eight Belles Owner Rick Porter

EightBelles134 — Wed, 30 Dec 2009 13:25:02 GMT

thank you jason for the wonderful interview with Rick Porter..I personally feel that we have been extremely lucky to have two talented,beautiful and spectacular fillies two years in a row.(Eight Belles and Rachel Alexandra)

re: Guest Blog: Q&A With Eight Belles Owner Rick Porter

Convene — Wed, 30 Dec 2009 06:39:16 GMT

Tim G - that's the truth about so many breakdowns. They aren't anyone's fault. Look how many similar things happen to horses playing at pasture! S--t happens and, as tragic as it is, sometimes we have to just accept it. More can be done - and must be done - to reduce the breakdowns, but some will always happen. As for Larry galloping Eight Belles, she was well used to carrying his weight and he may well have increased her bone strength; reasonably stressing bone increases density and strength, which is why young horses benefit from exercise as they grow.

re: Guest Blog: Q&A With Eight Belles Owner Rick Porter

RGGC — Wed, 30 Dec 2009 02:57:47 GMT

I believe every time a filly beats the boys in a race, whether it is a stake race or a claiming race, it is a tribute to Eight Belles, Mr. Porter and Larry Jones. I am sure Eight Belles was smiling every time Zenyatta, Rachel, Goldikova, Ventura and Evita Argentina beat those colts.

Best wishes and a happy New Year Mr. Porter and Mr. Jones, you are a couple of the good guys.

re: Guest Blog: Q&A With Eight Belles Owner Rick Porter

LAZMANNICK — Tue, 29 Dec 2009 20:12:35 GMT

Stardustyrose:

Good list so far......please see if you can add NORTHERN DANCER, DR. FAGAR and DAMASCUS......so many to choose from.....LOL and hope you have a great holiay.

re: Guest Blog: Q&A With Eight Belles Owner Rick Porter

Footlick — Tue, 29 Dec 2009 14:46:52 GMT

stardustyrose- I hope somebody mentions Dark Mirage also. I already mentioned my favorite but she shouldn't be overlooked, IMO. Thanks for doing this and putting all the work and time into it.

re: Guest Blog: Q&A With Eight Belles Owner Rick Porter

Tim G — Mon, 28 Dec 2009 17:17:12 GMT

stardustyrose, are you referencing something that happened to yourself and not suggesting that I fall down a flight of stairs? I would hope not anyway.

sceptre, There's a BIG difference between animals pre-disposed to injury and those who are already injured and running. Which is what you suggested in your initial comment, that she had an injury and because Rick and Larry aren't vets they couldn't tell. I would wager that an animal as valuable as that filly would have had any number of vets involved in her care and I'll take Larry B's word on this particular case. Stover et al suggested method of determining a pre-existing injury is no more than ANY vet would have done. The determination for pre-disposition? Well I'll bet they had done xrays etc on this filly that any biomarker test would have indicated anyway.

The vet would know LESS by pure OBSERVATION than a trainer around her all day every day would.

Yes micro-fractures, stress fractures etc probably are the major cause of fatal breakdowns

in the case of Eight Belles it was not according to the pre-eminent race horse veterinarian today.

Similarly who knows whether the injuries that cause the eventual catastrophic injuries occur during the same race? After all, the studies are done on horses who have suffered catastrophic injuries and sure sometimes you can tell the age of a fracture but if it is truly catastrophic, the damage can be so severe it's pretty difficult to determine WHEN it may have occurred.

When you have a horse running in these MAJOR races, every precaution is taken.

The rarity of those types of fatal breakdowns in the TC races are what is so shocking. The necropsy didn't reveal a pre-existing injury, granted the severity of the injury might preclude this, but if you had seen the filly, been on the filly as Larry was or Gabriel was during the race you'd have realized that THIS case indeed was a 'bad step'.

If you're operating under the theory that all necropsies can determine any pre-existing conditions then THIS necropsy PROVED that the filly had no pre-existing injury.

The studies done in most cases are a cross-section of ALL types of race horses, some of which probably shouldn't be running. However, this particular blog isn't the place for a 'SPECTRE' such as yourself. Gloom and doom and accusations when off base do NOTHING to further the cause of those like yourself. It minimizes the TRUE incidents of neglect or masking injuries to horses, in order to continue to run them.

Yes a serum biomarker test would enable a screening of the health of a horse’s skeletal system and 'theoretically' the pre-disposition for injury or weakness of the skeletal system. Then the horses could have diagnostic testing to evaluate for injury etc. MRI’s CT Scans etc

The main thing about pre-existing injuries as I said, is the fact that to determine WHERE, WHETHER an animal has one would require routine and frequent total body scans or as indicated by a blood test which exists for humans in determining osteoarthritis and osteoposrosis (and isn't fail-safe), but is yet to be developed for widespread use in equines.

Therefore, relying on honest and knowledgeable horsemen acting in the best interest of the animal(which is the case in these 'upper level' horses) to make a judgment that an animal they are around 24/7 for several years are not injured, is what we rely on, presently.

Seriously though, do you REALLY believe the average owner can entertain that kind of expense? So we’d then have only a few hundred upper level horses running, racing would die out and I guess you guys would get your wish.

To me no one knows the horse like those around them. That’s why I never complain when someone says ‘the horse seemed a little off, so we didn’t run them’.

What exactly IS the POINT you're trying to get across anyway?

re: Guest Blog: Q&A With Eight Belles Owner Rick Porter

stardustyrose — Mon, 28 Dec 2009 06:39:28 GMT

Tim G..

I got one for ya. How about taking your dog for a walk and the dog jerking ya till you fall down a flight of stairs? My dog is always under my feet and has caused me many injuries. Your post is correct. :)

re: Guest Blog: Q&A With Eight Belles Owner Rick Porter

stardustyrose — Mon, 28 Dec 2009 06:34:53 GMT

downhomesunset...

I have nothing really to add to your post other that Right on Man!

♥Eight Belles♥

re: Guest Blog: Q&A With Eight Belles Owner Rick Porter

stardustyrose — Mon, 28 Dec 2009 05:01:30 GMT

Oh one more thing. I would like to get pics of these horses crossing the wire/winners circle...etc....... :)

As for Rick Porter. I believe that he is a wonderful man and a good owner. I don't know much about him other than the Eight Belles tragety and from what I have seen and heard. I don't want to start a war here LOL. Rick did NOT DRUG Eight Belles. SHE should have easily won the KD on that day. IMO, she did win it in every way. Maybe just maybe she wouldn't have had to run as hard had she not been racing drugs but rather clean and sober horses aye? RIP ♥Eight Belles♥. I love you...

OK I am going to go and hide and come back laters....... ;-)

Greg J. You know how to find me. LOL...........

God Bless You all.........

re: Guest Blog: Q&A With Eight Belles Owner Rick Porter

stardustyrose — Mon, 28 Dec 2009 04:01:09 GMT

Hi Everyone.

OK here is the list so far.... It is obvious that the TC winners and horses like John Henry, Seabuiscit and Barbaro, Eight Belles and so forth will be in this video.

I just figured that if I threw a horse in that you guys liked that it would make it more enjoyable... OK here is the list of what I have got off Jason's other blog...... This list is only the horses that are off that blog and if you have a fav picture of your horse, send me the link of it so I can download the pic and use the ones you like. :-)

Greg J. I may need a push from you to help me a long here so I don't leave any LEGENDS out. :)

Curlin

Tiznow

Xtra Heat

With Anticipation

The Tinman

Better Talk Now

Evening Attire

Kona Gold

Buckpasser

NATIVE DANCER!

Awesome Again

Ghostzapper

Zenyatta

Megahertz

Please be patient you guys. I want to make sure this is a really good video.. I also have a couple of vids that I am doing for some jockeys. So please keep that in mind as well. :)

Love you all....... ♥♥♥♥♥

re: Guest Blog: Q&A With Eight Belles Owner Rick Porter

sceptre — Sun, 27 Dec 2009 05:08:27 GMT

Want something a bit more tangible which refutes the "took a bad step" excuse. -"...well over 90% of catastrophic injuries have evidence of pre-existing injury..."(Dr. Susan Stover, professor , University of California-Davis, School of Veterinary Medicine). Stated in her speech at the Welfare and Safety of the Racehorse Summit-July, 2007. This, and other excerpts from the Summit can be found at Grayson-JockeyClub.org. There, she and others discuss how we may better prevent and detect these pre-existing pathologies. Read it and be prepared to be awakened. It is far from the only documented evidence of these findings.

re: Guest Blog: Q&A With Eight Belles Owner Rick Porter

bellesforever — Sun, 27 Dec 2009 01:40:03 GMT

thank you rick poter for sharing your thoughts with us and a real big thank you for sharing eight belles with us! a horse can break a leg in their stall..or in a field.her blood came back free of drugs and the tests showed no previous injury!she will live on in our hearts and the hopefully great changes yet to come to racing..they are moving now lets keep the ball rolling!

re: Guest Blog: Q&A With Eight Belles Owner Rick Porter

Tim G — Sat, 26 Dec 2009 23:44:04 GMT

Don Francisco, Larry galloped the filly regularly. He didn't stress her with an all out run. Your premise is unfounded because it was more likely than not going to occur WHILE a heavier person was on her if there was indeed any pathology going on there.

Why can't you folks just grasp the fact that ACCIDENTS happen.

Just as with humans, most injuries seen with them are not due to predisposed weaknesses. People turn an ankle stepping off a curb and snap it, traumatic injury occurs due to heavy blows, twisting injuries etc but as often as not a FLUKE wrong step etc will result in fractures.