Alfred Vanderbilt

re: Alfred Vanderbilt

lisa123 — Sun, 11 May 2014 02:23:19 GMT

Even if the story about Ted Atkinson isn't really true, it's a good one.

What a shame that one commenter thought this was an appropriate place to run down Native Dancer. Even if one doesn't agree that he was top five all-time, surely there are better times to argue that subject!

re: Alfred Vanderbilt

The Deacon — Sun, 08 Sep 2013 03:59:20 GMT

Racingfan: Native Dancer owns your heart and that is in itself my point.

No shame in loving a fine animal, especially a race horse.

re: Alfred Vanderbilt

Old Timer — Sat, 07 Sep 2013 14:48:51 GMT

nice story. I still have your book about Summer Squall on my shelf.

Best regards and good luck!

re: Alfred Vanderbilt

Racingfan — Sat, 07 Sep 2013 13:48:33 GMT

The Deacon: you are certainly correct that we all have our opinions about the ranking of the great horses. And since there is no way to actually know, all we can do is speculate and love them all. Zenyatta is certainly in my top 10 but Native Dancer owns my heart.

FYI: Citation did not race at 4. He won 27 of 29 races at 2 and 3 but was injured at the end of his 3 year old year. He then raced 16 times at 5 and 6, winning only 5 of those. He was never the same after his injury. He was however, unplaced only ONCE in his 45 races.

re: Alfred Vanderbilt

The Deacon — Thu, 05 Sep 2013 23:28:11 GMT

I thought about Citation by Bull Lea and I do think he was a great horse but what bothers me a little about him is that he never won a race carrying 130 lbs. He also couldn't beat Noor by Nasrullah, losing 4 of 5 races to him. Noor did set track and world records also.

Citation ran 45 times and won 32. He was a better race horse at age 3 and 4.

Selecting all time greats is subjective at best. I would take Buckpasser off the list before Damascus. Damascus beat Buckpasser in the 1967 Woodward and he was 3 years old and Buckpasser was 4.

If Racingfan loves Native Dancer who lost only 1 race, how does he leave Zenyatta off his all time great list. She lost only 1 race.

re: Alfred Vanderbilt

The Doctor — Thu, 05 Sep 2013 18:20:56 GMT

The Deacon: Excellent choice with your top 10, I would certainly replace Damascus with Citation, but the others definitely deserve there rankings! Sorry to all of the Zenyatta fans.

re: Alfred Vanderbilt

The Deacon — Wed, 04 Sep 2013 08:03:29 GMT

Racingfan: Actually I have read those books about the Dancer. I wouldn't argue he was great but not in my top 5. Racing is about opinions, my prerequisite for greatness is based upon a horse carrying weight, brilliant at many distances and on many different tracks. Also setting track and world records.

My top 5 in no particular order were Spectacular Bid, Dr. Fager, Man O War, Secretariat, and Swaps.

Throw in Damascus, Buckpasser, Ruffian, Native Dancer and Kelso. That is my top 10.

I admire the fact you love this horse, it's what racing is about.......

re: Alfred Vanderbilt

fightonfig — Tue, 03 Sep 2013 14:36:17 GMT

Dropping those horses into claimers

is that what the $2 player wants an

odds on price ? Remember Find was

running in cheap claimers at Pomona

an ex-stakes winner like that,was

terrible. He was as good as any gelding, take away Kelso.......

re: Alfred Vanderbilt

Fortune Pending — Mon, 02 Sep 2013 23:52:48 GMT

Wonderful, wonderful. Sagamore and Mr. Vanderbilt are part of the heart of racing. I love reading these remembrances.

re: Alfred Vanderbilt

Racingfan — Sat, 31 Aug 2013 01:15:26 GMT

Thank you for the story about Mr Vanderbilt. Wish I would have known him and wish I could have seen Native Dancer but unfortunately he was before my time. He is however, my all time favorite horse! The Deacon: Native Dancer should not be just in the top five - he should easily be number ONE! Have you researched him and his amazing accomplishments at all? I urge everyone who has not read either of the two excellent books about him to start there - he was an incredible horse. Saratoga AJ: I have always felt that Native Dancer didn't get the credit he deserved because of that one loss. I sure wish he had won that race! But he has made probably the biggest impression on the breed that has ever been seen considering that it has been estimated that his blood runs through about 70% of racehorses today. I know you can hardly find a stakes winner that does not trace to him in at least one line! AMAZING!

re: Alfred Vanderbilt

Love 'em all — Fri, 30 Aug 2013 20:25:19 GMT

Mr. Campbell, read this story Wednesday ... but I won't tell how many times I've read it since then! You really are a good storyteller ... and teacher; I learn so much from your interesting stories.

As most know, CNN's Anderson Cooper's mother, Gloria, and AGV were first cousins. Quite an interesting family history, to say the least. Any Vanderbilt family members out there who are racehorse lovers? Without a doubt, AGV was certainly one of horse racing's best friend and contributor.

I liked his sense of humor too! Whether the paddock story about the jockey and the long shot was true or not, that was too funny! Thanks for sharing such a delightful read.

re: Alfred Vanderbilt

Grande Fan — Thu, 29 Aug 2013 21:42:12 GMT

I always enjoy a great story of racing's golden years - especially when told by one who was there. I have a framed copy of the Times cover featuring a rendering of the great Native Dancer and the wrenching derby story. Thank you, Cot. Any plans to "train" future authors to record today's great stories?

re: Alfred Vanderbilt

Saratoga AJ — Thu, 29 Aug 2013 16:45:26 GMT

One more jump and the Dancer would have been the only undefeated Triple Crown winner in history.

www.youtube.com/watch

(It should be noted Seattle Slew was undefeated when he won the Crown in '77, but subsequently lost 3 races)

re: Alfred Vanderbilt

Saratoga AJ — Thu, 29 Aug 2013 16:43:05 GMT

One more jump and the Dancer would have been the only undefeated Triple Crown winner in history.

www.youtube.com/watch

(It should be noted Seattle Slew was undefeated when he won the Crown in '77, but subsequently lost 3 races)

re: Alfred Vanderbilt

Saratoga AJ — Thu, 29 Aug 2013 16:32:37 GMT

How much higher than #7 on the all time list would Native Dancer be if not for that terrible trip in the '53 Derby? Think of that...retire as an undefeated (22 of 22) Triple Crown Winner?

Not to mention his impact as a sire through Raise A Native and Mr. Prospector on the male side, and his daughter Natalma, dam of Northern Dancer. Considering both his racing record and impact on the breed, he may be second to only

Man O' War.

re: Alfred Vanderbilt

Jermon — Thu, 29 Aug 2013 03:58:03 GMT

Alfred Vanderbilt - A true champion of the turf and of the little guy, the $2 dollar bettor. Growing up in Brooklyn in a neighborhood of racetrackers, just about everyone of age was a fan of Al. Although I never experienced it, some of the others, a little older, did. Wondering how they could accept the punishment of not only losing money, but also the raw, miserable New York weather in the spring and fall, he would occasionally venture down to the "lawn" and mingle, asking what could be done to make them more comfortable. When Aqueduct was winterized years later during his tenure as president of the NYRA, I'm sure it was not to promote winter racing. When that subject was discussed he would say he was opposed to it, the racetrackers as well as the horses needed a break. Further, they needed a little time to save a few bucks for the holidays.

Native Dancer's failure to win the Derby was the most shocking disappointment I experienced as a racing fan. The memory of that day still hurts. Not only did Al not criticize Guerin's ride, he continued using him as his go-to jock. Years later, in the sixties. when Guerin seldom got a ride, for among other reasons, making the weight, when he did it was always on a Vanderbilt horse. He, no doubt, had been working these horses in the morning and probably not for the few bucks a head that prevailed at the time. Al probably kept him on the payroll in one capacity or another, perhaps until his passing.

When he took a hiatus from racing to head the Veterans Administration for a couple of years, at a $1 per, he disbanded his stable. Instead of disposing of his stock via the auction route, he unloaded those that he could by dropping them in claiming races. This not only delighted the bettors who more or less were given a sure thing, it also gave the small time owner/trainer an opportunity to acquire a quality horse at a bargain price.

In view of the above, how could any racing fan who knew anything about him, not be a fan of his also.

re: Alfred Vanderbilt

deb — Wed, 28 Aug 2013 15:50:22 GMT

loved the story. I visited Sagamore Farm with my dad when they had the Maryland Farm tour, long ago. I wanted so badly to see Native Dancer but saw Northern Dancer. I was sad but now as an adult, I am glad I was able to see him. The farm was beautiful then, clean, red and white, it was a dream place to me. I think I was eight years old.

re: Alfred Vanderbilt

The Deacon — Wed, 28 Aug 2013 15:34:12 GMT

As good as Native Dancer was I certainly do not believe he was one of the top 5 all time greats.

Great story Mr. Campbell

re: Alfred Vanderbilt

Old Old Cat — Wed, 28 Aug 2013 15:31:47 GMT

This brought tears to my eyes. you are a great story teller. Thank you. We trained horses at Sagamore in the 1990's. A wonderfully designed barn with southern exposure for all the stalls, double looped with an indoor training track. On the outside track I got to sit up in the clocker's tower and watch the horses train. A wonderful time. I enjoyed looking at the old Timonium sales books with the notations for the ones that Alfred Vanderbilt bought.

Your story brought the man back to life for me.

re: Alfred Vanderbilt

Bethany Loftis — Wed, 28 Aug 2013 00:30:34 GMT

Thanks Mr. Campbell for sharing this wonderful story! I knew Vanderbilt had done a lot for racing and read several stories about his horses, but I had no idea just how much he had done. He certainly sounds like quite the character as well! You're so lucky to have the fortune to meet such wonderful people, and we are so lucky we have you to share your stories with us! Thank you so much! Your time is greatly appreciated!

P.S-Good luck to you in your journey with Palace Malice! He's certainly a treasure :)

re: Alfred Vanderbilt

Saratoga AJ — Tue, 27 Aug 2013 16:58:37 GMT

He was truly a great man in the history of Racing. And a patriotic American, for with all his money he surely could have avoided going into the Service in WWII. Instead he volunteered.

"The acorn doesn't fall far from the tree" as they say. His Father,

Alfred G. Vanderbilt Sr., died a hero when he gave his life jacket to a stranger, a pregnant women, during the sinking of the Lusitania in 1915 even though he could not swim.

re: Alfred Vanderbilt

TRADEADS — Tue, 27 Aug 2013 15:49:35 GMT

Hello Cot...you note that AGV...as he was affectionally called... had an affinity for the females...however you failed to mention that he had an long relationship w/Robin Smith whom was riding for him in New York@ that time and was winning some nice races for for him....After they went separate ways..never married though..she eventually dated Fred Astaire..whom you mention...she relocated to the left coast and they did marry and Robin was w/him when he passed away.....thanx always.....tradeads@aol.com