Final Turn - All Comments

re: Red, White, and Renew - by Kevin Lay

Van Cushny — Tue, 08 Jul 2008 18:14:35 GMT

With regard to your comment that "The dirt ovals that surround the tall pines in the saddling paddock remind one of how it must have been done a century ago" - actually, up until about 25 years ago, the horses were saddled under the trees in what is now the picnic area, and handicappers could get much closer to the horses than they can now. After the horses were saddled they would then walk from what is now the picnic area to the paddock, which was in the same area as the current paddock, but the old paddock was much smaller.

re: It Isn't Dead Yet - by Craig Bandoroff

mike — Sun, 06 Jul 2008 12:30:06 GMT

Been there with many others. Your venture is 1 to 9 to go broke,donate the money to charity.

re: It Isn't Dead Yet - by Craig Bandoroff

Bellwether — Sun, 06 Jul 2008 06:09:13 GMT

wake up folks as its right under your noses like the HOLA HOOP but you just can't see it...Long Live The King!!!

re: It Isn't Dead Yet - by Craig Bandoroff

55 year fan — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 16:33:35 GMT

mr. b refers to horse racing as a buisness. the "sport" is gone from the sport. horses are retiring in their prime. "FANS" not bettors are losing interest. wake up guys. this insideout mentality is killing us. the article talks about the people who just came into horse racing. how many people are leaving?

re: It Isn't Dead Yet - by Craig Bandoroff

empiregiven21 — Fri, 04 Jul 2008 00:57:47 GMT

Formerfan, I agree with you entirely on some of the horses lack of well made bone, at the same time (and i cringe) some of those goofy looking horses with splinding legs stay sounder than the thicker ones, who knows why, I wasn't poking fingers at you, I just (from personal esperience) find it frustrating when so many nicely made animals break down and the ones who we keep off of hard campaigns or even do campaign but are poor, look like hat racks! Sigh, I guess its just the way thins are, you know my warmblood is 17.2, 1600 lbs, 11 inch cannon bone, the most lovely solid conformation you'd imagine and he had hock problems before he even started jumping heavy? Then my one TB jumper gelding is 18 and stays sound on an old suspensory, pulled stifles, a shattered knee, arthritis in fetlock,knee,stifle and back problems! Ugh!! But I do whole heartedly agree with you on the big black filly, what a heart tho, you know she had a few injuries prior to her fatal one and that should have been a sign to retire if she was that fragile, but as we know, people don't always do that....I will read the book you recommended tho. I invite you to take a look at my Thoroughbreds bad leg (the one with the fetlock and knee arthritis, old suspensory and shattred knee injury just 2 yrs ago) and tell me if he looks like he wouldnt break down, by god he looks like it'd fall apart, but it stays cooler and holds up better than his other one, I don't know why, neither does the vet, thats the crappy thing about horses, they can never tell us when is when.

community.webshots.com/.../breakinzombie21 he is the chestnut named "Mike" I have a new TB as well but she is not posted on there yet. Mike used to be built absolutley phenominal untill his injuries but all were outside causes, not him being weak, the suspensory, he stepped in a pot hole, stifles, fell under a fence, knee is from being kicked and ankle is from racing. Let me know what u think. :)

re: It Isn't Dead Yet - by Craig Bandoroff

DANYLSON — Fri, 04 Jul 2008 00:19:08 GMT

GREAT ARTICLE AND IT IS TRUE. I HAVE A SIMILAR ACCOUNT AND IT OCCURRED ON BELMONT DAY. A GROUP OF A BOUT 13 FAMILY MEMBER GATHERED TO WATCH WHAT WAS ON ESPN AND THEN ON ABC DUE TO THE BIG BROWN HOOPLA. WELL THE OLDER CROWD OF 40YRS AND UP WERE NOT REALLY INTERESTED. BUT THE CROWD OF 18-29 AND 29 BEING MY AGE AS THE OLDEST WERE.NOW TO CLARIFY THINGS UP I WAS THE ONLY TRUE RACING FANATIC IN THE ENTIRE ROOM AND EVERYONE ELSE WAS NEW TO THE SPORT EXCEPT FOR MY 5 COUSINS BUT THEY JUST NEW THAT I LIKE RACEHORSES AND THAT WAS IT. DESPITE THE LETDOWN OF BIG BROWN, FOR THAT FIRST MINUTE OF THE BELMONT,THE NBA FINALS,THE WORLD CUP OF SOCCER,OR THE SUPER BOWL COULD NEVER COME CLOSE TO THE ELECTRICITY AND EXPECTATION IN THE ROOM AND WHEN HE LOST I THOUGHT THEY WOULD NEVER WATCH ANOTHER RACE AGAIN. TO MY DISBELIEF ALL IN THE ROOM INCLUDING THE TWO OLDER PEOPLE AGREED THAT BREEDERS CUP DAY THEY WOULD JOIN IN THE FUN AND THAT RACING WAS PRETTY COOL,YOU ARE RIGHT NOT ALL IS LOST IN HORSE RACING AND THAT HAPPEN IN JUST ONE LIVING ROOM IN AMERICA.

re: It Isn't Dead Yet - by Craig Bandoroff

FormerFan — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 20:03:05 GMT

Empiregiven21: What do I expect? At this point, not much. However, I do expect a horse to be bred to perform the job at hand. I understand they get hurt. Most athletes do suffer injuries from time to time. However, When they possess tremendous heart and courage, but lack the proper confirmation, or underpinnings as I like to call it, I can not consider that a well bred horse. I consider it a tragic accident waiting to happen (Ruffian comes to mind). Take a look at a confirmation shot of her if you can find decent one. She has no defined ankles. It just looks like a cannon bone running into a long pastern and a hoof, but where's the ankle? I just do not see ankle definition on her. How could you look at her and think that she would hold up to any type of rigorous racing campaign. And I'm not trashing her, I would never do that to her. She did the best she could with what she had to hold her up. I use her as an example because we all know what happened and I will always believe her poor confirmation was her weakness, not a bad step, because that filly never took a bad step in her life. If a mechanic is going to repair your car they will need the proper tools in order to do so. Without the proper tools and parts your car is not going to be repaired, well maybe someone can do a temporary rig job, but temporary rig jobs will eventually come undone and you are right back where you started, with a broken down car. And that is my point. Heart and courage can only go so far. If you have not done so already, I encourage you to check out some of the old horse racing history books from the 1960's on back. I think you will find them quite interesting. Thank you

re: It Isn't Dead Yet - by Craig Bandoroff

LassieComeHome — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 19:49:37 GMT

Funny - I have read & re-read Peter Chew's book on the Kentucky Derby & I don't recall any mention of breeder's knowing they were breeding unsound horses? Are you perhaps confused with another book? I remember in the chapter about Bradley's Busy B's - Colonel Bradley would order any horse foaled at Idle Hour - if it was crooked legged or unsound - to be gelded and given away, so as not to "pollute" the breed. Book had lots of great anecdotes and a whole chapter devoted to saving Hoist the Flag. Half.com, affiliated with E.Bay, also offers this book.

What happened to the breeders in this country importing stallions to outcross for hybrid vigor?

(Also mentioned in Peter Chew's books was the fact that Col Bradley couldn't afford the expensive mares from across the pond, so he & Olin Gentry would look for full sisters to these mares).

re: It Isn't Dead Yet - by Craig Bandoroff

empiregiven21 — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 12:59:20 GMT

Formerfan:

That is true and false at the same time, not ALL the breeders were going to lame horses and not all of todays TB'eds are lame and unsound and break down, fact of the matter is, they are HORSES, 1200 lb animals on 20 lb legs, what is it that you expect? How hard can a horses bones and ligaments become? Never hard enough to prevent all breakdowns, I personally own 2 thoroughbreds and they are sounder than my warmbloods! I have an 18 yr old gelding who despite injuries from competing or pasture incidents, he is still competing successfully at the highest level. Not every horse is going to stay sound in ANY sport, we to use medications, joint injections and topicals on our "ouchy" equines, should we ourselves not take that jog because we have a slight ache and people view pain killers as bad? of course not! I agree whole heartedly not to run a lame horse, but again,they are hoses, they were built fragile and things happen, I am a horse lover and my horses are my friends and family, but I understand the reality of how delicate they are, no matter how well bred and fit they may be. Fact of the matter is, if they didn't breed some of those "unsound" horses that could still run irregardless, we'd get no heart and no toughness in the breed, which it needs. What we should do is mandate the use of bandages when running to prevent catostophic injuries, i've never once considered even working my horses without them let alone galloping top speed, not to say it'll hold bones together but the sensation of support alone helps the horses move with confidence. Hopefully we can move on, try to make it as safe as possible, but look, even if they were running on bubble wrap, someone would still get hurt.

re: It Isn't Dead Yet - by Craig Bandoroff

Shamfan49 — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 12:50:57 GMT

I just got off the phone with the reservations clerk at one of many fine Evansville (Indiana) motels. I called to cancel the 3 nights I had reserved so that my wife and I could enjoy a fine weekend of racing during Ellis Park's 2008 opening no longer starting tomorrow. Horse racing may not be dead, but Blood-Horse wrote Ellis' obituary this morning. My wife and I will find other activities for the weekend, but my best wishes go out to all those at Ellis who suddenly find themselves without jobs. The loss of the best soybean field in racing is a devastating blow to us all, but to them even more so. When will the blamed fools ruining this sport wake up? My guess is not until after their funerals when they open their eyes to discover they have already been sealed in their coffins and buried ‘down about 6 foot deep’.

Barbaro was beautiful. That blow did not drive me away from this game. Eight Belles kept giving me the horse laugh as she tucked my $2 beneath her saddle blanket after yet another futile effort on my part to beat her price. That blow did not drive me away from this game. This latest blow will not drive me away from the game; there is no game left to drive to.

I raise my finger in salute to all those whose greed and stupidity hit Ellis harder than the tornado.

re: It Isn't Dead Yet - by Craig Bandoroff

Bellwether — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 07:03:56 GMT

EXPOSURE...PROMOTION...LLTK!!!

re: It Isn't Dead Yet - by Craig Bandoroff

normajean81258 — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 03:37:46 GMT

Great writing, uplifting and light hearted!! How exciting for your new friends. They are in it for the excitement, you say, and not the money! Hopefully they will always feel that way and develop a love of the sport and the horse! We need this right now and I hope they all find success at any level and introduce more "fools" LOL to the sport. I wish I were one of them....

Norma Jean

re: It Isn't Dead Yet - by Craig Bandoroff

FormerFan — Wed, 02 Jul 2008 19:53:37 GMT

I do not remember where I purchased the "First one hundred years of the derby". The book is kinda old. But those are the best books on horse racing to purchase and read because they used sources that are today in the racing hall of fame. I have an old thoroughbred history book from like 1955, and the information for say Native Dancer was gathered and compiled right after his retirement. Now, how much more accurate can you get than an interview with Native Dancer's trainer 6 months after he retired. Not 40 years later. Also, the works cited page has all the big names in the industry from way back when, Like Bull Hancock for example. You do not get better sources of racing information than that, not even today. You will be shocked at what is discussed in these old horse racing books. Someone said try Amazon, they are probably the best place to go for it. You will be flawed after reading these old books. Lameness and unsoundness apparently is a characteristic of the breed, its normal for a thoroughbred to be constantly lame. Check out the sources from this book as well, they are impeccable, so you can see that it was not written by some fly by night auther who knows nothing about race horses. It is very interesting and explains why this breed is falling apart today.

re: It Isn't Dead Yet - by Craig Bandoroff

Adam — Wed, 02 Jul 2008 18:47:09 GMT

Craig-

What a truely unbeievable read!!!I hope you will update us all on your new venture and the process made with setting up the group so we can all enjoy in your fun together. Besides the obvious need for drug testing, and a racing series; getting new people in the game is a key to its future success.

Cant wait for future updates, hopefully via the TDN!!!

re: It Isn't Dead Yet - by Craig Bandoroff

Pat — Wed, 02 Jul 2008 15:12:43 GMT

"My guess is that there is something about the horse and the intrigue of the sport that kindles the flame of their entrepreneurial spirit".

Or maybe it is more basic than that. The ability of a horse in full flight to stir feelings and passions never before experienced. Even for those who until coming in contact with a racehorse wouldn't know which end kicks and which end bites.

That's the beauty and appeal of our sport.