Playing the Future - By John Fradkin

re: Playing the Future - By John Fradkin

Melanie Williams — Mon, 19 Jul 2010 00:07:40 GMT

You are so right on. Even a grandmother as myself, spends more time on the computer, cell phone , laptop, ipad, and alot more I can't even comprehend. We race standardbreds, but my dad raised thorobreds. I love them both. We need to get our heads out of our behinds and get into the next generation of gaming. We have a gold mine in racing entertainment and we continue to stick our heads in the sands of 1980. The racing industry is begging because we are already 30 yrs behind todays entertainment industry and that is a damn shame.

re: Playing the Future - By John Fradkin

Fran Loszynski — Tue, 06 Jul 2010 19:06:11 GMT

It has always amazed me that a sport like tennis that takes "forever" to end a set gets so much coverage when a horserace holds so much excitement, speed, beauty, and skill- and only lasts for two minutes at best. Except for the Triple Crown series you have to search (other than a horseracing channel or ESPN) for a simple horserace held from the stakes races. There is nothing boring about horseracing compared to watching a little ball go back and forth 40-to- a thousand times in two directions. The coverage of Wimbledon lasts three to four hours when a horserace keeps you on the edge of your chair for two-go figure! For some of us that don't have all the techinical hoopla-HELP!!!We love to watch horseracing.

re: Playing the Future - By John Fradkin

javiscuba — Sun, 04 Jul 2010 03:10:27 GMT

In your column you mention that players would bring laptops or IPads. We don't need those large items, that's why we have cell phones with internet access.

SoRthe racetracks just need to advertise heavily on their OWN online wagering (eg. NYRA rewards has a mobile site for it's online wagering). We can just take our cellphones or smart phones that have already unlimited internet access and wager through it.

The track web designer needs to create a correctly formatted mobile site, so there is no need to download an application. At the same time, all tracks should have a customer service stand on the to help us open a new account, approve the bank transfer on the spot, answer questions about the mobile site, and get us quickly rolling for the day.

This would benefit the track. First, we bet on their system, so they keep the share. Second, by not waiting on line at the teller, I would place more bets since nobody would be rushing me. Thus also avoiding a lost bet, because plenty of times we ran out of time waiting on line, and walk out without making a wager. It would be beautiful to watch the horses in the paddock while placing my bets. No need to run to the machines or tellers, then rush to the stands to find a spot, just to barely see the race, since I'll be at the back of the pack.

re: Playing the Future - By John Fradkin

TBOwner — Fri, 02 Jul 2010 15:17:46 GMT

Joe F, you need anger management.

The facilities? What a laugh, they're getting rich off of the horsemen yet don't want to share anything. No owner, trainer, barn staff or jocks? NO HORSES therefore NO facility.

I'd say you need to walk away from racing, if you have ever even been to a track. You sound incredibly bitter and misinformed.

No one who isn't a horseman or track owner has any reason to be so vehement about this subject.

Not even a gambler, because you could just find something else to gamble on.

Hey maybe you should take a look at the house odds and win % at a casino if you want to get really mad.

Who do you think is driving the takeout from the handle anyway?

Do you know what % of that takeout actually even goes to the horsemen?

re: Playing the Future - By John Fradkin

Slew — Fri, 02 Jul 2010 13:33:17 GMT

Let's talk about a novice at the track...who happens to love the horses and is unfamiliar with the racing forms and analysis. I'd want to visually assess the horses before I bet, but I don't want to be running back and forth to a window to place my bets...and possibly miss the race. At the track, there should be windows like banks. You deposit a specific amount at the start of the day. You pay a deposit on an electronic gadget that can transmit your picks to your bank window while you never have to leave your spot on the rail. At the end of the day, you collect your bank...and return the gadget, allowing that you can add to your "bank" account anytime during the day. Is this done anywhere? Can it be done? If you want to attract novices...I would find this more appealing and intriguing than any race form...and much simpler...especially to those at the track with disabilities....who would rather not bet than try to maneuver a wheel chair back and forth through a crowd. Just asking.

re: Playing the Future - By John Fradkin

TBOwner — Fri, 02 Jul 2010 01:41:29 GMT

Cangamble I'd suggest you're probably wrong on few if ANY horsemen commenting on here.

re: Playing the Future - By John Fradkin

Cangamble — Thu, 01 Jul 2010 13:15:40 GMT

Some previous commenters just don't get it. Lowering takeout will allow players to last longer, they may not care on the surface, but they will play more, and they will have a much higher probability of introducing others to the game.

Keeping takeout at 20% is causing a death spiral.

I suggest some of the obvious horsemen who are commenting here, read up on the concept of optimum pricing.

re: Playing the Future - By John Fradkin

jimf — Thu, 01 Jul 2010 10:31:13 GMT

Great article and hats off to you for your insight!!!

To me the bet to entice new comers is the NYRA grand slam. Allows for action over multiple races and you do not need the winner.

The appeal of million dollar payoffs attracts alot of novices. A quick pick type bet that can be offered at lottery retail locations would certainly increase handle 10 fold.

Bill Finley and Davey Johnson have a Saturday radio show on Sirius and one of there sponsers is from Hong Kong. I forget the name of the play but it continually offers multimillion dollar pools and offers fractional wagering.

Inovated bet types like this will be the key to our future.

re: Playing the Future - By John Fradkin

Joe F. — Thu, 01 Jul 2010 06:12:39 GMT

Dude, you don't have a clue!!!!

You illustrate your cluelessness by practically pontificating with the following:

""...horsemen and racetracks putting on the show receive a fair share of the takeout dollar no matter where the wager is placed. This is by far the most important issue facing our industry today.""

In reality, horsemen are more likely to be the biggest PROBLEM faced by the racing industry today.

Horse owners and breeders created ALL of the present mess with their entirely separate, speculative run-up which has created huge and needless expenses that raise the overhead at all racing establishments needlessly.

This is parallel to the way the cost of gasoline was roughly $2.00 higher 2 years ago than it is today, that even though millions of gallons of oil continue to spew into the Gulf of Mexico on a daily basis.

Those costs of two years ago were caused in largest part by mere speculators, which is what all horse owners are.

Who in the **** are you to determine for everyone else involved just what is "the most important issue facing (horse racing) today"??

Racing has caused all of its own problems and at this point nobody outside of racing cares about them.

re: Playing the Future - By John Fradkin

C Bea — Thu, 01 Jul 2010 02:26:09 GMT

Exchange wagering is exciting but it will further drive a stake in our heart if Betfair is allowed to pay what they want. I understand that they've offered 25-50 basis points (.25%-.50%) of the total handle. Or the equivalent since they don't calculate handle as handle. It's a funny number "net win".

Betting exchanges can increase the total business potentially by 50-100% but they'll pay less than 1/10th of what ADWs currently pay or less. You do the math and tell me that we'll all get rich and prosper feeding at the trough of Betfair!?

There are other betting exchange technologies out there. I hope the NJSEA is smart enough to look at all of the options!!

re: Playing the Future - By John Fradkin

Thomas J. — Thu, 01 Jul 2010 01:27:13 GMT

This is a GREAT plan to make the ADW's wealthy as they would handle all the action but what about the brick and mortar facilities (tracks) that offer import simulcasting? If handle is going through ADW then they see nothing.

re: Playing the Future - By John Fradkin

Joseph Heller — Thu, 01 Jul 2010 01:10:41 GMT

Ever heard of Catch 22? You lower take out and/or issue 10% rebates and every track but CD goes out of business. Why? Cause they simply can’t stay long enough for the tact to bottom out, much less show a positive trend in betting volume. And you think Horsemen are going to sit back and drive Fords and cut day rates while this master plan is given a chance to work? Good news is the 2% betting factor that accounts for 20% of the handle will react positively; bad news is the other 98% is non-pulsed as if nothing is different. Good luck, you’re all dreaming.

re: Playing the Future - By John Fradkin

lisalocust — Thu, 01 Jul 2010 00:25:42 GMT

Rebates accomplish the same thing as a reduction in takeout, yet are probably easier to embrace by the industry, and they encourage more handle. Some of the previous posters don't seem to get that. Rebates are already here on some platforms and in some states. If we only had a Racing Czar who had the power to . . .

re: Playing the Future - By John Fradkin

tpjockey — Wed, 30 Jun 2010 23:07:46 GMT

Did the article say "cooperate"???

Dead On Arrival!!!

re: Playing the Future - By John Fradkin

opm — Wed, 30 Jun 2010 22:40:42 GMT

Fourcats:

Isn't it obvious that the customer doesn't want to pay 20% anymore and that's why we are having this discussion. You can keep charging 20% and they will continue to stay away. Penn National, Mountaineer, Charles Town, Fair Ground, Philly Park, Praire Meadows have given the owners over $1billion dollars in slot money in the last 10 yrs and racing is in the worse shape it's ever been in. Try to lower the price, lower takeout or bust. I got a feeling we will have to go bust first since your thinking is similar to the establishment.

re: Playing the Future - By John Fradkin

Mike — Wed, 30 Jun 2010 18:17:54 GMT

Increasing handle is so simple that it continues to elude every racing executive in this game.

1) Lower takeout

2) Create a Betting Exchange

See where handle is in a year.

re: Playing the Future - By John Fradkin

FourCats — Wed, 30 Jun 2010 17:27:41 GMT

I think your enthusiasm is great. And I strongly agree that, for horse racing to survive and thrive, it needs many more fans.

However, the economic model that horse racing is currently built upon is simply unsustainable. And many of the comments by the posters to your article seem to think that if we just reduce the takeout or close 1/2 the tracks or provide free everything, all will be well. In my opinion, that's a very selfish viewpoint. It may be better short-term for some gamblers. But, it won't be well for all the horsemen who have spent their lives working long hours with the horses. It won't be well for all the owners who currently lose about 40% for every horse they own. It won't be well for the tracks who could sell their properties for real estate (instead of racing) and actually make money. It won't be well for all the track employees such as the tellers, security, cleanup crews, restaurant staff, track maintenance and others. It won't be well for all the horse transport companies, the horse breeding farms, the feed companies, the jockeys and exercise riders, the bloodstock agents, the veterinarians.

Someone has to pay to put on the show. And the show is very expensive (much more than setting up a poker game or even a casino). If the takeout is reduced to nothing, free PPs are given, free parking are given, etc., then who pays to put on the show?

I've been a fan for 50 years and a small-time horse owner for 10. I've seen several sides of the picture. The reality is, no business or industry can survive if everyone (including the customers) end up with more money than they start with. Where does that money come from? Trees? Businesses and industries make money by providing a product that they can sell for more money (not less money) than it takes them to produce it. If horse racing survives, it must be viewed as entertainment combined with the chance to win money if you're smart enough. But only a chance. The average fan will lose money. Increasing the number fans would spread the costs across more people. And the tracks have been woefully poor in attracting new fans, providing clean/pleasant surroundings and making the entertainment portion a great experience. But, at the end of the day, the customers still need to pay for the show or the show stops.

re: Playing the Future - By John Fradkin

The_Knight_Sky racing blog — Wed, 30 Jun 2010 16:06:13 GMT

Mr Fradkin wrote:

Rebates become legal in all states that allow account wagering.

____________________

Rebates reward the established high volume bettors. But that does not address the need to lower the takeout rates across the board.

If the bar remains high, how are "new fans" going to cross over to profitability and become life long participants ?

Current marketing efforts are doomed simply because new and intermediate fans, their lack of knowledge are tapping out their bankrolls every season.

Only a select few newbies persevere with their weekly paychecks while the aging fan base quietly passes on.

Maximum growth will only be realized if horse racing lowers the takeout rates to what it was in it's heyday, circa 1960's

in the 10 to 15% range.

If a larger segment of the public became winners at horse racing wouldn't that serve as the best public relations move for the game?

I sincerely believe so.

re: Playing the Future - By John Fradkin

opm — Wed, 30 Jun 2010 15:41:59 GMT

Well, sounds good, you will attract smart young people. However, what are you going to tell them when they figure out that they were suppose to get $2.39 back from their bet but they got paid only $2.20.

Also, how are you going to explain to them that they have to pay 20% to play this game when poker only charges 5%?

re: Playing the Future - By John Fradkin

CCZ — Wed, 30 Jun 2010 13:13:26 GMT

Since the majority of bettors is over 50yo, are they expected to convert to laptop or PDA debit wagering? I don't see that happening. So then what, do we discard these folks who have been loyally supporting racing for all of their adult lives because they are $2. bettors? That seemingly would not encourage them to bring new blood to the track, ie, by spreading the word. Then, too, what would happen to all the "stoopers" in this electronic world :-) I am not adverse to ADW, just don't forget them that brought you to the dance.

re: Playing the Future - By John Fradkin

Cangamble — Wed, 30 Jun 2010 13:05:47 GMT

Preaching to the choir almost. I agree that the game needs to be beatable by some, and the only way to do that is to either embrace rebates, or lower takeout (same thing).

The only thing I really disagree with here are a couple of points:

1. I believe rebates should be consistent percentage wise for all, right from dollar one bet. Nobody becomes a $10,000 a month bettor overnight, and in order for that to happen, you need to give them the best chance to painlessly learn the game through betting and sharpening one's handicapping skills.

2. We are seeing more going back to the tracks and horsemen now as distribution fees have begun to rise. Meanwhile handle is dropping as ADWs who give rebates wind up with less to rebate the players. Lets not put the cart before the horse. In other words, more to the tracks and horsemen means less winners have a chance to be created.

If in fact dollar one rebates will create winners and then eventually increase handle 3 or 4 fold, live with this, and reap the benefits when the growth occurs.

re: Playing the Future - By John Fradkin

ML/NJ — Wed, 30 Jun 2010 12:20:14 GMT

You can already bet against your account in the boxes at Saratoga for five or more years now.

re: Playing the Future - By John Fradkin

JerseyBoy — Wed, 30 Jun 2010 10:58:46 GMT

Mr Fradkin:

You are on the right track. ADW is the way to go. It is even better when the track-feed is carried online and I do not have to deal with the TV shows. It allows me to see the horses parading rather than the windbags talking.

However, the cost structure must change or horse-racing will be just a hobby for the wealthy.

re: Playing the Future - By John Fradkin

FGP — Wed, 30 Jun 2010 01:50:28 GMT

Great Article

re: Playing the Future - By John Fradkin

James — Wed, 30 Jun 2010 01:43:25 GMT

Close 50 percent of tracks and ma bee we could get a little better than 3/5 on a good horse