Cash Flow - by Martin Stiles

re: Cash Flow - by Martin Stiles

Greg — Sat, 24 Jan 2009 23:05:57 GMT

I have been told that if you cut a yearling he will grow faster and stronger than if you leave him a colt. Any proven truth at all to this?

Thanks

re: Cash Flow - by Martin Stiles

christienne budge — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 13:16:39 GMT

This is what is wrong with horse racing. There is no "governing" body, such as the Baseball Commissioner, who can govern these breeding practices. The Arabs are also to blame. They are breeding like mad for speed and for the breeding shed. I do not think a 2 year old should be run so early. I have had two with partnerships and guess what? They both got injured! One I bought myself and put her on a farm to retire because I thought she may be claimed at Phili Park and end up on a slaughter truck. Something has to be done.

re: Cash Flow - by Martin Stiles

Chris — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 22:27:44 GMT

Mr. Stiles:

Just a curiosity question for you.

Are any of these ideas or opinions getting to any of the "Powers That Be" people in horse racing ???

Or is all of this really just for the readers to vent with ???

I'm mainly asking this because "IF" the ideas and opinions presented here really are getting to someone important, I'd like to know what that person thinks about some of them.

Maybe you can invite them to chime in here from time to time...ya know ???

Just a thought !!!

re: Cash Flow - by Martin Stiles

Chris — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 19:28:10 GMT

Personally I believe that Breeders are to blame because this is where our whole industry is created from. And if they're breeding a speed mare to a speed sire instead of a sire who can put a little more stamina into a foal, then YES they are to blame.

I agree that Trainers are also to blame, but only so much for them though. I think that you have to keep in mind that...

#1...A Trainer can really only work with what he's given.

And #2...The Trainer has to please his Owners. And if he's being pressured by his Owners to run them more often, then he really has no choice but to keep the choices of races shorter so he doesn't break down his horses.

Overall I believe that it's EVERYONES FAULT. The Breeder, Trainers, Owners and Racing Secretaries.

* Breeders for breeding speed instead of stamina or Turf.

* Trainers for not trying to stretch out a horse.

* Owners for not having the patience to allow a Trainer to take more time to stretch out a horse.

* And Racing Secretaries for not writing longer races.

Just a thought !!!

re: Cash Flow - by Martin Stiles

hank — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 01:49:56 GMT

I totally agree with Wnad on her article on Aug 20th, everyone is blaming breeders, I believe as much fault lies with the trainer, patience lack of money or what ever it seems as though they want to give horses "bullet works of a half mile" then try to run them long and wonder why they get tired and go lame. Hit hard and fast, and hope for the best is the way today. Love to watch those long turf races from Europe on TVG.

re: Cash Flow - by Martin Stiles

whoapony — Mon, 25 Aug 2008 19:27:55 GMT

Do you know why people breed for early maturing sprinters? Because breeders produce what makes money. Precocious sprinters develop quickly and look good at the sales, producing higher sale prices. Plus, most of the time the poplular new sire prospects are the blazing fast sprinters and milers. They are the horses commercial breeders will pay high stud fees for. Look through the Stallion Register. There are precious few sires specializing in older or distance runners commanding a high fee. The ones that do (Dynaformer comes to mind) earned their high fees through years of producing top quality runners.

If we had more distance races then maybe the focus would shift, but it's sort of the chicken and the egg. If we bred horses for distance, then racetracks would card them because they would fill. Or, if the big money at the track and then the breeding shed and sale ring came from sound, distance horses then that's what breeders would produce. Look at Sunday Silence. He was sold to Japan because American breeders weren't interested in a horse that excelled over 1 1/4 miles for two racing seasons. Devil His Due, a horse who ran classic distances and medication free in forty starts can't get the top mares and his stud fee has dropped. Something needs to happen to break the cycle, but I don't know the best place for it to start.

re: Cash Flow - by Martin Stiles

Bellwether — Mon, 25 Aug 2008 07:58:19 GMT

don't race any 2yo's till sept...they are just running them in the ground (Second of June) one of many...breed not really that weak...it's the human factor thats the weak one...Long Live The Dirt!!!

re: Cash Flow - by Martin Stiles

STEVE STONE — Mon, 25 Aug 2008 02:26:22 GMT

Hello Martin..Perhaps this opinion column is not the appropriate venue for my thoughts..however its somewhat germane to the overall big racing picture..As an aside to your question as to why todays thoroughbreds are not as durable as those of yesteryear..being questioned by members of the racing community..perhaps they can answer why less than 41,000 fans turned out in perfect weather to witness the Travers Stakes at the Old Spa? This event..the oldest in the country and certainly one of the most august on the racing calendar..next to the Kentucky Derby itself normally draws close to 70,000 fans..The NYRA team I am sure are pondering this disappointing attendance day..True attendance is endemically soft throughout the industry..however there is something radically wrong when these numbers are so paltry for this race day..irrespective of whom was entered or not running.... The meeting there has been plagued with some adverse weather which has kept the attendance down throughout....however..Travers Day was glorious and pristine.....This industry has so many moving parts and components..like others..however if the numbers are not reversed at some point..I do not believe you will have to worry about why todays thoroughbreds are not as constructed soundly as they were in another era..No one will be in the stands to see them run anyway..I certainly hope someone out there has some answers..There are enough groups and associations involved in the sport to hopefully spawn an solution before its to late..Thank you always for your window...Steve Stone..East Hanover..New Jersey...

re: Cash Flow - by Martin Stiles

Dr. Don — Sun, 24 Aug 2008 23:55:00 GMT

I have been involved in a racetrack practice for almost thirty years.It is very obvious that the integrity and sport aspects of thoroughbred racing has been somewhat replaced by greed and the fallacy that it can be a profitable business. Very difficult The pressure that is now put upon the horse is in reality a culmination of nall the pressures exerted for larger fields, More money wagered, etc. Let us not forget they are not machines with replaceavle parts. I have seen many, many horses who should never have been put into training or maybe even have been bred. Never forget speed kills

re: Cash Flow - by Martin Stiles

ofelia — Sun, 24 Aug 2008 15:21:36 GMT

Thoroughbreds are distance runners and Quarter Horses are sprinters. Why do we continue to accept 6F and 7F racing of Thoroughbreds? I would love to see racing go back to the setting of beautiful parks, horses running on turf and champions that run year after year. I love racing but I am beginning to prefer steeplechasing where I have been able to see McDynamo (son of Dynaformer) run three years in a row. McDynamo was a horse that was gelded because he did not make it on the track but went on to excel over jumps on turf. I think if thoroughbreds raced longer distances on turf, Dynaformer would rank up there with Danehill and Mr. Prospector as a sire.

re: Cash Flow - by Martin Stiles

T.J. — Sat, 23 Aug 2008 19:45:58 GMT

Let's not forget that tax breaks for horsebreeders were taken off the books in 1986. That emphasized the need for early returns; i.e., sprinters.

We won't see those tax breaks again. Still, I'd like to see more graded stakes races stretched out to 10f, 12f or 2 miles. Good trainers will have no trouble finding horses for them.

Until then, owners of stayers rather should send their horses overseas, where many so-called slowpokes make worthy careers beginning at 12f.

re: Cash Flow - by Martin Stiles

da3hoss — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 10:59:06 GMT

Anytime the breeders (of any breed, dog or horse) breed for the whim of the buyer it is a sure bet the breed will go downhill...it takes a special person to stay true to the foundations and what's best for the breed & its future.

re: Cash Flow - by Martin Stiles

Rick S — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 03:56:40 GMT

Peggy, how do you know the 5 yr old mare was not sound?

I had a 5 yr old FTS about 20 years ago... he was a June 28 foal, and I did not feel he was ready to run till he was 5. He was easy to break, but he was just not ready to be a race horse.

And he was sound in all 17 of his starts.

re: Cash Flow - by Martin Stiles

Thu, 21 Aug 2008 23:29:48 GMT

the quote...

"But the breeders who brought us Man o’ War, Secretariat, Northern Dancer, and Buckpasser did not expect to make a profit from their horses. These people served as a conduit for money that flowed from business and industry to the kingdom of the horse."

I, appreciate this comment. Maybe it is as close as it can be to the mind set, "Sport of Kings". I would love to see some current kings be gentlemen, also. Money is certainly necessary. Could there ever be a balance between the money and the honor in the current kingdom?

re: Cash Flow - by Martin Stiles

STEVE A — Thu, 21 Aug 2008 20:17:37 GMT

Maybe so was so fast, they couldn't catch her till she was 5.

re: Cash Flow - by Martin Stiles

Julianna Diaz — Wed, 20 Aug 2008 20:44:44 GMT

I agree with many of the replies, I would love to see more Turf and more distance, I own a mare who was a complete failure at racing because shes bred to go a mile and a half and by the time she was in gear the race was over. The breeders cup marathon gives some incentive, we just need longer grade ones for people to breed for it.

re: Cash Flow - by Martin Stiles

Chris — Wed, 20 Aug 2008 20:32:11 GMT

I agree that our industry has an over breeding problem by at least 5,000 or more per year, but I don't think that it's in the top 3 reasons for Unsoundness.

My main top 3 reasons for Unsoundness are...

1) Decades and decades of dirt racing instead of turf racing.

(Which on a side note, I've always heard that racing on a sloppy track is like running on concrete for the horses).

2) Cheaper bred horses continuing to be bred to cheaper bred horses.

And

3) Sprints. As we've almost all agreed on.

I mean how many horses have we all witnessed on national T.V. that had to be Euthanized from the Breeders Cup Sprint alone ???

You know that every time something like this happens it gives PETA the opportunity to jump all over us.

re: Cash Flow - by Martin Stiles

Wanda — Wed, 20 Aug 2008 14:59:32 GMT

Chris: I like where your going with that.

Mr. Grant: Thank you for keeping the old horse in training and giving racing fans a hero to watch. It's great to watch an older horse win at a graded level,hats off to everyone for your good management of him.

I don't think we've bred out the ability to run a distance, but rather the patience to bring one along. The mind set today is to get them to the races as soon as possible to generate income. That means running short and not training them to run any farther. I could relate a 100 stories about horses that given the chance to run a route were very sucessful. We all know a few but unless people are willing to enter, those races are never going to fill. What to do?

re: Cash Flow - by Martin Stiles

goodwin — Wed, 20 Aug 2008 06:21:04 GMT

Yes, I agree - why does American racing keep insisting on speed? I could care a rat's patootie about seeing another 6 furlong sprint race, but race cards are full of them. If you want speed, get a Quarter Horse! I prefer routers, turf, and I prefer distance, and it is quite obvious that the speed emphasis is a contributing factor to the soundness problems, not to mention racing on dirt. Why can't we be more like Europe, where racing is only on turf, every trainer has to have a "yard", and sprint races are few and far between? The American race industry is painting itself into a smaller and smaller corner.

re: Cash Flow - by Martin Stiles

Racefan66 — Wed, 20 Aug 2008 02:48:49 GMT

I definitely agree that the sport of horse racing has become the business of horse racing. As a sport, the goal would be to breed the best horse and keep them racing. As a business, profit margins dictate how the horse is raced and for how long. I understand why it's happening, I'm just saddened that there aren't any real good solutions out there to deal with the situation.

re: Cash Flow - by Martin Stiles

Joe Grant — Wed, 20 Aug 2008 00:49:19 GMT

"The New York Racing Association has begun a series of distance races that would appear to accomplish that goal."

I wish I could find those races. I have begged for a 10F race for Evening Attire in Saratoga.

This year there are no 10 furlongs races for older horses at Sartoga.

I guess the message to owners is don't breed for distance.

re: Cash Flow - by Martin Stiles

Chris — Wed, 20 Aug 2008 00:12:20 GMT

Here's a shot at trying to think outside the box. So please bare with me...I'm trying.

Although I do agree that there needs to be a redirection of purse money from sprints into distance races, everyone knows that as long as you argue about money not much ever gets accomplished.

So instead, maybe we should just start to slowly force all of our horses to run in longer races. A little at a time of course.

For example...

Instead of the average minimum 6 furlongs, starting in 2010 it should be 7 furlong average minimums. And then in 2013 it goes to 1 Mile minimums.

Or even a distance by age kind of thing.

2 year olds run averages of 6 furlong minimums or more.

3 year olds run 7 furlong minimums or more.

4 and Up run 1 Mile minimums or more.

Maybe this way over time the breed will become more stamina based and we can eventually rebreed the new and improved Iron Horses.

Make any sense???

re: Cash Flow - by Martin Stiles

rita — Tue, 19 Aug 2008 23:57:47 GMT

Theres only one reason for unsoundness over breeding! You're always hearing have your animals spayed and neutered I know you can't do female horses but it's up to stupid, money hungry humans to control it. All they think is maybe the next one,maybe the next one will be my big one. It's not happening!

re: Cash Flow - by Martin Stiles

JordanA — Tue, 19 Aug 2008 21:13:28 GMT

Peggy, where in that article did it say the mare was unsound? That's the problem, people in such a rush to put the negative spin on things they write their own story. Maybe the mare was small, maybe immature maybe a million things that made them feel like the mare would be good if they could just wait. First you guys want to wait to run them until they're older then get high and mighty when they do wait.

re: Cash Flow - by Martin Stiles

lespedeeza — Tue, 19 Aug 2008 19:39:56 GMT

Not all 5 yo maidens are unsound. Didn't see a thing in the article that said she was. Some horses are the victims of the people who own them or circumstances beyond their control. It would be fun to see how long she does last having made a late debute. Kinda like an Irish "store horse"........