Over and Out - by Jay Jones

re: Over and Out - by Jay Jones

doug — Sat, 20 Dec 2008 06:12:20 GMT

jay i must be very lucky i live in a area i turn my t.v. on i can bet over 100 tracks on any given day if they are open.my phone bet account allows me to do this.in regards to your ciger story.i understand my parents at the time owned some horses ron turcott rode some of them back then as a favor to my parents i got to go to secretariats barn i got to feed him some carrotts and he loved peppermints.my memories are fresh in my mine and my picture of him and i hangs proudly in my den.

re: Over and Out - by Jay Jones

milton.j — Thu, 04 Dec 2008 14:33:50 GMT

I have to admit i also have been down this same road. One would think all the horse people would understand that without the race fans and pari-mutal betting public there would be no need for any other part of this industry. With- out the betting public how would the track survive, who would need a horse breeding farm, and on and on. There are far too many different groups with different agenders looking out for them- selves rather than working together for the horse racing industries survival. Like was stated in this great article, while everyone is working to get a larger piece of the monetary pie the pie continues to get smaller. When they are done at this rate no one will want anything to do with the little thats left. Does any one think a major league baseball game would be held up if the bat boys and girls did not like there pay? Please, it is time to stop bickering and every one come together to same the sport we all love.

re: Over and Out - by Jay Jones

russell maiers — Wed, 26 Nov 2008 01:26:04 GMT

Well said!!!!

re: Over and Out - by Jay Jones

luv the boy — Sun, 23 Nov 2008 16:36:27 GMT

enjoyed Final Turn today about seeing the great Cigar. I cannot imagine it--actually seeing him. I am a recent subscriber to BloodHorse. I'm a lady, 61 and have never had a horse, just rode other neighbor's horses. been reading about great race horses probably since I was 10. just love them, love them. don't anything about betting, and would love to see the Derby next May. My family and friends really don't understand me and my love of the racehorses. again, can't imagine being within touching distance of Cigar, and yes, this is in my blood.

Nola Ross

re: Over and Out - by Jay Jones

Stan M — Sat, 22 Nov 2008 17:32:44 GMT

As a fellow horseplayer close to 47 years its no better here in New York. We have our own scourge with NYC OTB. They treat us like crap whether it be at the OTB, or through their phone service, but if you venture to a Nassau or Suffolk County OTB its just the opposite. Yet, for the life of me we still come back for more hoping that things will get better, and that the true racing fan and horseplayer will someday be treated with the same respect that the (beloved) casino player gets when he rambles down the Jersey turnpike on a bus loaded with players headed for A.C. with a fist full of quarters and those complimentary food vouchers that they yearn for! And God forbid that you do make a decent hit once in a while, then you have good old Uncle Sam standing next to you at window waiting for his fair share, or shall we call it just a "tithe" Seems like it never gets any better for the good old suckers, named "horseplayers"!

re: Over and Out - by Jay Jones

Louise Rossman — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 20:49:34 GMT

First I opened up a TVG account

then I had to open XPRESSBET.

Recently I couldn't bet at

Churchill without opening yet another - TWIN SPIRES. Now you can't do California. Didn't open an account with TWIN SPIRES and keeping all my money in my pocket. I was not a huge horseplayer just $100 a week or so. You're right it's not the economy in this case either.

re: Over and Out - by Jay Jones

Ray Manley — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 17:17:09 GMT

How can any reasonable person argue with any of the comments posted regarding ADW's? However, I find it ironic that one poster thanks the BloodHorse for having this forum. The BloodHorse is a publication produced by the Thoroughbred Owners and Breeders Association. And it's the Thoroughbred Owners of California who are the current villains in this latest saga to kill our favorite sport. I would bet - if I could (pun intended) - that many members of TOC are TOBA members as well.

re: Over and Out - by Jay Jones

STEVE STONE — Wed, 19 Nov 2008 13:49:19 GMT

Hello Jay..Enjoyed reading your poignant piece regarding your lure to Saratoga..racings oldest and most storied racecourse and the thrill and excitement that was generated to witness Cigar in an early morning workout prior to his next outing..Albeit you did not note this..I sincerely hope after your scintillating experience at the rail and you perhaps enjoyed "Breakfast On The Porch"..you journeyed across Union Avenue and spent considerable time visiting Racings Hall of Fame ..A most breathtaking shrine hearlding racings great..both equine and human...And if your ever visiting the "Spa" in early August..you will see another version of an early morning workout by racings great..both past and present..the induction into The Hall of Fame... No visit to Saratoga can ever be complete unless one spends time visiting this citadel..The tradition of capturing over hundreds of years of racing lore is perhaps more exciting and exhilerating and bone chilling than watching an early morning workout..even Cigars at the rail..Thank you always for your kind window and best regards always..Steve Stone..East Hanover..New Jersey

re: Over and Out - by Jay Jones

chip — Tue, 18 Nov 2008 21:53:38 GMT

I agree with your premise. I live in Arizona and I can't wager online any longer. However, offtrack here is the New York tracks and Kentucky. I used to wager 340 days of the year. Now its only when I go the Vegas or Del Mar. I love to bet the horses, but the powers that be have taken the game from me.

re: Over and Out - by Jay Jones

needler in Virginia — Tue, 18 Nov 2008 21:23:26 GMT

Observation from an historian: Having studied history (all sorts including US economic history) for more years than I can count, the similarities between 1929 and 2008 are coming into VERY sharp focus. After the "moral" brain farts of the early 20th century when all sorts of gambling were made illegal, and racers went south of the Border to bet, all of a sudden, it was "discovered" that the proceeds from betting on horses could provide additional income to an economy in serious trouble. WHOA!! REALLY??? Let's open a track and make money!! What a concept!

Fast forward to 2008, and see that the same principles apply. The situation in 2008 bears a marked resemblance to that of 1929, and while I DO NOT understand the ADW issues (I'm an on track bettor and even then don't get the intricate wagers offered. Mostly I'm an across-the-board on my favorite horse wagering fool!), I REALLY DO NOT GET WHY ANY OF THESE TRACKS WOULD TRY TO MAKE IT HARDER FOR BETTORS TO SPEND THEIR MONEY. Are these tracks immune from an economic slow-down? Don't they want to take your money? I would think the tracks would try to make betting of all kinds EASIER rather than more difficult.

Color me simple when it comes to the issues being discussed here, but it will take A LOT to get me to understand that the tracks, who survive on the handle for each meeting, would actively engage in chasing bettors away........AM I MISSING SOMETHING HERE? AND, if I am, PLEASE EXPLAIN EXACTLY WHAT I'M MISSING IN WORDS OF ONE SYLLABLE........'cause obviously, it's far too complicated otherwise!

re: Over and Out - by Jay Jones

Horseplayer Member — Tue, 18 Nov 2008 20:35:43 GMT

Great reading!

Jay and posters are right on the money with this issue. And this has been going on a long time. Wagering has been down in inflation adjusted dollars since the late 1990's. This is not a new phenomenon. Unfortunately it has not been addressed. It is interesting the way it is being looked at now, for two reasons: 1) it is finally being spoken about because this year, purses are down. We kept the blinkers on because the money was there, despite millions of potential customers leaving, or not returning to our sport, and 2) as a response to falling revenue through falling handles, groups like THG want to take more money from the only sector of the game that is actually holding its own. if they succeed, the result of will probably mean less handles in the future. It is like pouring gasoline on a fire.

In my opinion, until we as an entire industry decide that the only metric worth speaking of and focusing on is handle, we will be destined to fight over less and less money for purses for the next decade. I don't know about you, but I would like my children and children's children to enjoy this sport as an owner and bettor like I have the last 25 years. So please racing: Get to work on growing handles, not fighting over them.

re: Over and Out - by Jay Jones

PTP — Tue, 18 Nov 2008 17:53:21 GMT

Nice article. When people who are every day players are beginning to think of calling it quits it is eye-opening. These are the players and owners and insiders who pretty much have to get heaved out of a moving car on the way to the track to get them to not look at racing. This is serious.

Let me commend the Bloodhorse for allowing things like this to be posted to an industry trade mag. I recently read an article that spoke of the large media having trouble and that the signs were there the last couple of years of readers were moving elsewhere for news. It came to a head because the media pretended it was not a problem. It appears to me that Bloodhorse and other industry publications and insiders are trying to give a voice to passionate people like this to make sure that it does not happen in racing. It was too late for the major media, but perhaps with some work it is not too late for racing.

Anyhow, kudos to passionate fans like this and Bloodhorse(and with the takeout blog piece you ran, which I am sure racing insiders do not want to read) for allowing voices to be heard.

re: Over and Out - by Jay Jones

pebii12 — Tue, 18 Nov 2008 17:21:03 GMT

Me too.

I was also one of those people on the rail that morning at Saratoga to see the mighty Cigar. As a Saratoga native, still living there at the time, I could not miss the opportunity.

While I am a dollar bettor, I have an online account and only tune in on the weekends for stakes races. I make three yearly pilgrimages to Saratoga and several stops at tracks like the Finger Lakes, Belmont, and wherever I might be visiting with a track nearby. When the big races are running at a locked out track, which never used to happen, I cannot bet. This infuriates me. If every dollar counts this should infuriate the industry as much as Jay's five figures.

Jay, well done making this point. Funny that we probably rubbed shoulders on that misty morning. Two enthusiasts from different backgrounds with the same concerns.

re: Over and Out - by Jay Jones

Richard R — Tue, 18 Nov 2008 17:16:25 GMT

My experiences parallel some of the ones that Mr. Jones details; and, lIkewise the reduction of my level of play by some 75%. I refuse to play any track where THG or TOC has introduced issues that prevent my access to those races. And, I will continue that refusal whether, or not, the dispute ends. You don't want my money? Fine. You won't get it. I refuse to play bets that are not competitively priced. Why should I play 25-cents on the dollar to bet my money, when I can get the same type of bets down the street for 20 cents? Do the math on $100K of bets in a year and tell me that it doesn't make a difference. And, like Mr. Jones, it's not the economy - stupid.

re: Over and Out - by Jay Jones

justralph — Tue, 18 Nov 2008 16:04:56 GMT

Just one more guy talking about how the ADW mess is turning away players. Yet, Horseplayers are still betting, tracks are still running and fledgling attempts (HANA)www.horseplayersassociation.org

to organize Horseplayers are being yawned at by of all people, Horseplayers themselves? Track Managers have treated us like crap for years, now the the Horseman are taking it to a new level and ignoring the players like their brethren in management.

We get what we deserve. If we can't even organize and stand up for ourselves.....why should they pay attention? If you really care, get off your ass and join HANA, and take a weekend off from playing. Toss a few bucks toward your Horseplayer Organization maybe we can then take some action that will mean something. Blog and BBS Whining is getting old. Let's Do Something!!

re: Over and Out - by Jay Jones

Hajck — Tue, 18 Nov 2008 16:00:01 GMT

I feel your pain, brother. If you are in looking for a kindred spirit, check out blog.horseplayersassociation.org

The madness has to stop. One can bleed to death from shooting one's self in the foot if there is no new blood for a transfusion.

Carry on, Carry on, (or in the case of some of these muppets...)

Carrion, Carrion,

re: Over and Out - by Jay Jones

Craig — Tue, 18 Nov 2008 15:53:14 GMT

This sport is heading down a path similar to that of harness racing, albeit for different reasons. In the end, it won't matter. The result is that very few will care.

How long until politician's pull the slots subsidies? Once that happens, the game will need bettors more than ever. Too bad they will be gone.

re: Over and Out - by Jay Jones

Theresia — Tue, 18 Nov 2008 15:43:05 GMT

I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiments posted by Jones and I think he has accurately captured the feelings of horseplayers throughout the country. I keep wondering when the industry is going to realize that in many ways it is dangerously teetering at the edge of the abyss and it is imperative that it come to its senses before it reaches a point of no return.