Saratoga: What We Learned From the Sale

re: Saratoga: What We Learned From the Sale

Miami Michael — Tue, 17 Aug 2010 18:41:31 GMT

Look at what is going on at tracks across the USA....or should I say not going on. Tracks open less days a week with races having fewer horses entered. This sport needs more fans & fuller fields. I believe any horse purchased should have a rational expectation to earn on track at least the purchase price...

I believe the poly surface is not helping and all tracks need to return to ole' fashion dirt.

re: Saratoga: What We Learned From the Sale

North Sales LLC — Sun, 15 Aug 2010 00:41:51 GMT

One big Amen,With the horse industry on very hard times were trying to help our fellow horse breeders,so we have cut our commission in half, and most expenses,I'm selling more horses privately off the farm ...

re: Saratoga: What We Learned From the Sale

Fairy Bridge — Thu, 12 Aug 2010 15:03:20 GMT

The sales side is only part of the industry. The sport is racing, and that is what needs to be fixed first. If that regains some health then more horses pay their way and more owners will be encouraged to get involved (or more breeders can afford to race the ones they're "stuck with"). The tail is still wagging the dog. A lot of us make money in the sales side, but we are all operating on racing's frayed coat-tails.

The "big guy-little guy" thing doesn't apply anymore. Many of the big guys are in proportionately bigger financial holes than the little guys. They were forced to pay tens of millions for top stallion prospects in the last few years (because enough of the little guys wouldn't breed to anything else), and now some of those stallions stand for 5, 10 or 15 grand. Little guys are trying to save everything they own. Rest assured, so are many big guys. And we won't miss them until they're gone.

re: Saratoga: What We Learned From the Sale

Ava — Wed, 11 Aug 2010 01:27:47 GMT

I hvae participated, and watched the industry for over 35 years. I am glad it is in correction, because it is way out of hand, with the high prices of stallions, and the ridiculous pricing of upkeep. It took the small player right out of the business. Trainers ae next- charging 80, 90, and 100 a day to keep a horse at the ytrack is beyond crazy. Too many lack of pedigree horses were being bred, and the only people getting rich were the sales centers, and the big consignors- pushing from both ends- buyers and sellers-nice game if you can get away with it. The real horsemen should start demanding less fees, all th way around, from the stallion fees, sales center fees, and training fees. But, it may be too late, the little guy is just about gone. The entire industry in in the toilet-

re: Saratoga: What We Learned From the Sale

marktoothaker — Sun, 08 Aug 2010 15:55:13 GMT

Still money for the horse that is the whole package but very unforgiving if you dont jump through all the hoops. Bad vetting or conformation and you are going to be penalized very severe. Not as much money for the really good ones as before but at least someone still there to buy, when Im going to be scared is when no one is on the sales grounds.

re: Saratoga: What We Learned From the Sale

Larry Ensor — Sun, 08 Aug 2010 14:33:39 GMT

tbracer, This maybe true of many but not all. Several have worked with us to what was mutually beneficial. The people that speculated on shares and are not per say breeders unless that have to be are the real greed mongers. They won't give an inche.

re: Saratoga: What We Learned From the Sale

katethegreat — Sat, 07 Aug 2010 17:16:49 GMT

tight credit market, oversupply of

horses, slaughter house closure have all contributed. All horse

breeds have a pyramid on which they are based. Little guys support the top of the pyramid. Little guys are trying to save their homes and farms (as well as some big guys) The pyramid is pretty shaky right now....

re: Saratoga: What We Learned From the Sale

friscofarmpaul — Sat, 07 Aug 2010 07:44:45 GMT

this game is easy, lmao

re: Saratoga: What We Learned From the Sale

tbracer — Fri, 06 Aug 2010 13:11:32 GMT

The big stud farms who are responsible for the steep escalation of stud fees based upon a few top sellers are still sticking it to the little guy. They know the small-time breeders got stuck with foals that they cant sell, the value dropped with the poor economy and the drop in stud fees. If you have cash flow problems dont expect them to help you work it out. They will sue and add outrageous interest charges that will put you out of business. That is how the "big" guys treat those of us who supported their stallions. They maintain their margins no matter who they put out of business.

re: Saratoga: What We Learned From the Sale

MikeM — Thu, 05 Aug 2010 18:00:48 GMT

I don't care how wealthy a person is, a yearling purchase is a total crap shoot. If all it took was to spend the most money on the best bred horses then the top players in the market would win a triple crown race every year. If you combine that with the economic realities of the businees you come up with a weak market.

re: Saratoga: What We Learned From the Sale

Tough Sledding — Thu, 05 Aug 2010 15:19:08 GMT

It's very tough to be a seller right now! However, breeders have already reacted to the market & have begun reducing the numbers of mares they breed. Going forward this should have a great influence on the overall market! The stud fees, even on proven stallions, should continue to decline as well. Existing horse operations will become smaller & hopefully focus more on quality! Enormous opportunities for entry level & oversees buyers to upgrade at deep discounts exist now! The sales results over the next 4-5 months should tell us where we're headed!

re: Saratoga: What We Learned From the Sale

Larry Ensor — Thu, 05 Aug 2010 12:58:42 GMT

(4) Horses are like houses you bought a few years ago, they just aren’t worth as much. At least a house is always sellable, as is wheat, corn, etc at some price. Saying to a commercial breeder you better be prepared to race them to stay in business would be the same as saying to GM you better be prepared to drive the cars you make to stay in business. The numbers don't work. It is one thing to take a horse to market that you know has issues and not get it sold. It is completely different to take a horse that has a creditable pedigree, no vet issues and by all accounts a nice horse and not get a fraction of you production cost and a good chance of not even getting a bid. And you are left with another $3-$5,000 in sales expenses.

re: Saratoga: What We Learned From the Sale

Kevin A bUrke — Wed, 04 Aug 2010 22:45:30 GMT

The entire thoroughbred industry needs to take one or two steps back.

It is not just the stallion stud fees, it is all of the additional expenses from all the connected sources who profit, that are adding up to a loosing business in the raising and selling of a thoroughbred race horse.

If you have been making a dollar profit for the past years, make a fifty cent profit now. Everyone connected needs to contribute in order to bring balance and success to this industry. Yes we can cry and morn for those good horse people who are now failing or have failed, but what are you, I, we, doing to help them succeed?

I am not quite on subject, but I am not far from our current sorry story.

re: Saratoga: What We Learned From the Sale

frankie conditions — Wed, 04 Aug 2010 17:43:20 GMT

We keep hearing about the new reality. If racing is an "industry" it needs A Leader ie; a commissioner. This post could help navigate the various jurisdictions, rules and various parties like breeders, trainers, jockeys, media, bettors, medication issues, etc.

Of course yesterday's stud fees are killing breeders and that may take 12-18 more months to reacha reasonable level. Unless breeeders are prepared to race, and that's not such a bad idea in Pa., La., In., etc. then there's not much sun on the horizon.

For all the parties to succeed they need a common voice that represents all their interest. If the industry improves then their respective chances for improvement will rise too.