Good-Bye Mom and Pop?

re: Good-Bye Mom and Pop?

jano — Sat, 02 Apr 2011 05:16:37 GMT

racing has been in decline for decades because of technology.

yet, its not over yet and great horses can be homebreds. some of the best ones that ever looked through a bridle came from small farms.

it isnt just the cheap horses that end up in deplorable conditions.

horses dont know how much they cost.

so i said breed and plan to race them on their your own. but if you have a chance for the big time sell them or take on a partner.

there is plenty of money to be made for pa sired horses. they have so many divisions and so many races. avoid the big guys. figure out where they are going and go somewhere else.

lastly these days there are very few poorly bred horse compared to a few decades ago. so what if you race them cheap. the idea is to have fun and not go in the toilet.

oh and by the way, work out a deal with a trainer too..........

re: Good-Bye Mom and Pop?

Shoeman — Tue, 29 Mar 2011 14:03:08 GMT

I've been saying for years that the vets aren't helping the business. When you get a windfall and settle up, you're lucky if there's anything left in your checking account. Also, when you take a horse to an auction and he brings only a $1,000 bid and you have to give the sales company a check, you probably should have just given the horse away as a hunter prospect.

re: Good-Bye Mom and Pop?

Caliente railbird — Wed, 09 Mar 2011 03:17:43 GMT

We had fun breeding and raising the horses we had. But once the economy went down the drain, trainers who would buy the type horses we bred were only a fountain of excuses.If it was a first foalfrom a race winning mare, the response was "well lets see one first". If it was a foal from a mare who was a producer, " I just don't have the clients who'd buy these types anymore. And then you end up seeing the same people at yearling sales.Even when we tried to move some stakes winning horses from South America, it wasn't enough. I'm convinced that people want a graded stakes winner for $3,500 payable after the horse wins $1-million on the track.

re: Good-Bye Mom and Pop?

Francisco — Mon, 07 Mar 2011 06:19:28 GMT

Seattle Slew - John Henry - Lil E Tee - Singletary -

These are just a few reminders of why we (small breeder) continues on our dreams. Modest stock + low sale prices = Wonderful Experience

These Champions were inexpensive horses in the eyes of the expert before they hit the track. Then there geneticcs kicked in and "WOW" what running machines. So my point is with out the dream these Champions would have never been born, never raced and never became champions.

So to all those who refer to cheap horses base on value, remeber this. My $1k colt is equal to $1m. Why because he is mine and i will care for him until his time comes.

re: Good-Bye Mom and Pop?

Riverside — Mon, 07 Mar 2011 01:46:59 GMT

Forty years ago I would go to the sales with my father to pick out horses...He passed, my family sold the ranch. Last year I decided to see what the was going on in the horse market... better horses are being sold today for less money than they would have brought forty years ago! But, rather than coming away with notion that the horse industry was dead I a came away the the conviction that if anyone ever wanted to own a horse and take a chance, now is the time. You can by good horses, ranches, equipment, and hire competent help for a fraction of the cost of just a few years ago. The market has changed with the economy. More over, there is more than one way to get a horse to the track. You don't have to spend a fortune. Much of the training can be done at home, ala "the backyard racehorse". Trainer Janet Del Castillo had success with this method in Florida. Difficult times require the small breeder to try new approaches and perhaps the rewards in the future will be greater than ever before. I learned in the stock market to buy low and sell high. Horses are on sale! Tomorrow will be better than today.

re: Good-Bye Mom and Pop?

Pony — Sat, 05 Mar 2011 23:28:46 GMT

Wow ~ so many opinions. The way I see it, from all these comments,is that people remain quite opinionated. This is the sport of Kings, but who is to say that the KINGS cannot arise from the small of the sport? I am a small time breeder. I Have wonderful bloodlines. Nothing coming off this farm is less than an A++ nick. What is disheartening is the narrow minded who are leaving comments. Perhaps they, not we with dreams, should be neutered as well!

re: Good-Bye Mom and Pop?

Lady Valtaya — Sat, 26 Feb 2011 15:59:00 GMT

Not all small breeders are breeding cheap mares to dirt cheap stallions. But it is unfortunate that it takes so much money to get started in this business. There is little chance of a small time horseman to raise his own race horses and race them under his colors. The purses aren't high enough because the costs of training and vet care and insurance among other things have bordered on the obscene almost as long as I've been alive.

It is also a shame that the media doesn't take more interest in our sport- and when they do, all they want to talk about is track accidents or former champions being sent to the slaughter house.

If racing can't clean up its image, I'm afraid we will lose it all together....

re: Good-Bye Mom and Pop?

tbracer — Thu, 24 Feb 2011 16:27:54 GMT

There are a lot of problems with this industry, too many to mention. In any normal business you could research and then draw up a business plan that suits your abilities. That does not work in the horse industry. It is not a rational business. Stud farms and pin hookers control much of what is "hot". YOu may have great bloodstock, but it wont b sell because it is not the pick of the day. When you produce a "looker" the pin hookers will conspire to buy in. If you refuse, they spread rumors about the horse and it isnt bid on.

THis industry should be based upon every sector helping out the other. Instead it is made up of people grabbing the $$$ even if it destroys someone. They are always looking for new faces to appear so that they can get more $$ from them.

GOOD RIDDANCE

re: Good-Bye Mom and Pop?

Johnny — Wed, 23 Feb 2011 19:52:32 GMT

People who are breeding "inexpensive mares" to "inexpensive" stallions should probably have their animals destroyed. When you are much of the problem in this industry, you cannot be any part of the solution.

re: Good-Bye Mom and Pop?

katethegreat — Thu, 17 Feb 2011 17:01:24 GMT

Sunny Farm is correct on many points. Commodity "fixing" has put a strain on many horse and cattle breedeers. After the last

run up in prices, many got out of the business. Our local FFA and

4-H kids LOST money on their market steers. Don't get me started on the loss of value in the horse market. Worse than the 80's.

re: Good-Bye Mom and Pop?

MikeM — Thu, 17 Feb 2011 16:31:00 GMT

The breeding industry is hurting because the economics of owning a racehorse are a joke. Everything cost more but purses don't keep up. There is no realistic chance to cover exspenses let alone turn a profit.

re: Good-Bye Mom and Pop?

qb1dan — Thu, 17 Feb 2011 02:39:40 GMT

I will say that alot of you are right about alot of things here . Most of us here have been Racing Fans all of our lives . The problem with horse racing is it is not TALKED about enough on T.V or the MEDIA . We must remeber we are competing against the NFL , MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL , NASCAR , COLLEGE FOOTBALL and the NBA . Tell me when is the last time since the 80's that you have seen and ADVERTISEMENT for a perticular race like it used to be on ABC say for the FLORIDA DERBY . We all used to look forward to the WEEKEND because we new the BIG RACES were going to get a lot of coverage . It is time for the all the players to start promoting the races like it used to be . This can be done a alot of different ways . I myself just started a small breeding operation in PENNSYLVANIA and my main target is to concentrate on the PENNSYLVANIA PROGRAM and capitalize on it . Ihave bred 4 horse so far and have gotten all 4 to the races . My main thing as a breeder is to promote the these horses threw the RACING PARTNERSHIPS that I am running . Right now RACE HORSES are not worth any money at HORSE SALES unless you have a SUPER NICE HORSE and lets be realistic most of us don't have that kind of CASH to BURN . Since I have started my RACING PARTNERSHIPS have have gotten 25 PARTNERS and for the simple reason of not charging BIG MONEY . I hope by next year I have 50 PARTNERS . Remember one thing people HALF LOAF is better then none of the LOAF . RACING can be SAVED if everybody pulls the WAGON the same way .

re: Good-Bye Mom and Pop?

Pasadena — Wed, 16 Feb 2011 14:18:02 GMT

I have continue to read the comments after posting my post of discouragement and I decided not to follow my dream. I have commitments here in CA so I can't go to a breeding friendly state. And we all know CA is totally out of control and the fact that racing and breeding is leaving the state is just one of the symptoms of the fact. Who would have thought the Golden State would run itself into the ground? :(

re: Good-Bye Mom and Pop?

nina — Wed, 16 Feb 2011 00:50:01 GMT

Agree with Sea Sea Blue. Having a little fun for these people produces horses that are abused and end up in the slaughter house which is brutal for someone to have a little fun. Have them try farming .You can have fun and make lots of money with corn.

re: Good-Bye Mom and Pop?

lisaoutriding — Mon, 14 Feb 2011 21:19:34 GMT

I think breeding should be curtailed. There are too many horses out there and too many people breeding just for breeding sake. How about a "National Stud"

re: Good-Bye Mom and Pop?

Sunny Farm — Sun, 13 Feb 2011 17:25:13 GMT

The answer certainly is not to force the breeders to pay an additional fee for future retirement of a horse they bred.(As I have read on some comments here )

Not all Thoroughbreds ever will race, some will be raised for other uses. There is already more than one T.B. retirement fund & a breeder may contribute , or not-it is their choice & should be thier choice. The "Breeder" already pays enough and can't sustain !

A small breeder does NOT signify that they "Bought cheap mares & bred to cheaper sires ", perhaps they paid handsomely for thier bloodstock, so let's not stero-type the "Small breeder".

Also remember how many champions have come from the "Smaller breeder" despite the auctions preference for selling & focusing on the larger breeding opperations & the bias that this causes to the small breeder.& is reflected on the selling price.AND whether or not they can remain in the business.

There are two kinds of people in the industry & the world :

There is the hay farmer who places his hands on his hips and states, "I'm price-fixing, I'll make them pay $10. a bale and I'll get it too"....and they don't reach out to help those who buy the hay & people go out of business. Too exspensive anymore.

The next year , the hay farmer lowers his price as there are no more cows or horses left !

Now everyone is out of business !

THEN you have the Breeders Cup ltd.

They have lowered prices and done everything they can to help the horseman STAY IN BUSINESS.

More people should be getting together to join up and help each other , which will benefit the whole.

One last thought: When there is only the large breeders remaining, the gene pool will suffer & decline and loose it's vigor. That's HYBRID VIGOR and is what will make the Thoroughbred adaptable for racing & for the future, especially with all the global changes.

In these economic times, maybe we should all join up & help each other. I applaud the Breeders Cup for setting a fine example.

re: Good-Bye Mom and Pop?

Little Guy Breeder — Sat, 12 Feb 2011 21:31:35 GMT

The ruination of this business isn't the cheaply bred horse, it's the plethora of cheap expensively-bred horses. We don't need 157 horses by one unproven stallion in one breeding season! We're over-breeding and it's killing the market and the sport. It also makes it hard on the "mom & pop" breeder.

I have one broodmare, one stallion, one colt and one filly. The HORAs are at home because I can't afford to keep them at the track. I haven't bred my mare in 3 years because I babies cost money and it's not fair to breed another one when I can't race what I have. My stallion hasn't bred a mare since the bottom fell out in 2008 - not even my own, but he's my horse and I'm not getting rid of him - I am a responsible horse owner. Besides, he makes a great lawn ornament! Times are hard, but my horses are safe and well-fed, which is the best I can do for right now.

I consider myself "on hold" rather than out of the business.

re: Good-Bye Mom and Pop?

Karl — Sat, 12 Feb 2011 07:13:04 GMT

Don't forget the avg pregnant rate too, I spent 7000$ breeding my mare last year in vet and feed bills, to end up with an open mare.

re: Good-Bye Mom and Pop?

mike s — Thu, 10 Feb 2011 18:13:58 GMT

charles, right on about slots and racing, states will also demand a cut to offset budgets. the drain on money to certain few will ruin more than racing, but racing will be 1st in line. might be bad for mom and pop now, but major farms won't be far behind. look at crowds at tracks and otb's, it's an age group dying out and not being replinished by the young. glad i lived when i did to enjoy some good years, sad to see an industry we all love go extinct.

re: Good-Bye Mom and Pop?

SPLITS OF 12 — Wed, 09 Feb 2011 23:14:17 GMT

The rule of thumb: Never breed a horse that you wouldn't run on the track, yourself.

re: Good-Bye Mom and Pop?

sam — Wed, 09 Feb 2011 22:37:33 GMT

cheap horses can and do outrun expensive horse. they dont understand economics

re: Good-Bye Mom and Pop?

Dreamers Mom — Tue, 08 Feb 2011 17:54:39 GMT

Four years ago, we had 12 foals. This year we will have 4. We have cut back on mares and intend to cut back further. We have our own stallions, nicely bred, but we are about to lose the main track in our state. We can't give our horses away, let alone sell them.

Yet, we keep dreaming. Probably the dreams of fools, but still dreaming.

re: Good-Bye Mom and Pop?

Pedigree Ann — Sun, 06 Feb 2011 22:35:06 GMT

Too many million dollar yearlings can't run to their price tags. Then you can get a Singletary for $3200 (from a $7500 stud fee). And he wasn't from a bad family, either. Xtra Heat changed hands at auction 3 times before she raced, with a maximum of $9000-she had 6 older winning siblings, all of which earned more than her purchase price, most of them much more.

It seems that real horsemanship is in decline. Competent judges of what conformation will or won't compromise racing ability are few and far between. Far too many people depend on X-rays and workout times to make their judgments because they don't have the experience to be able to judge a yearling or 2yo with consistency.

re: Good-Bye Mom and Pop?

Pickle and Pepper — Sun, 06 Feb 2011 05:28:51 GMT

The key to small breeders being able to succeed is to have a completely different way of evaluating yearlings for racing. If prospective buyers could evaluate a racing prospects athletic capability and not just conformation, it would put all breeders on a level playing field. Yearlings at 18 month of age could be put on a treadmill and we could get their maximum heart rate, vo2max, stride length and have their way of going video taped from all angles. Since a horse is born with his maximum heart rate and it can't be changed through conditioning, then horses with higher heart rates would make better athletes. vo2max would show the ability of the horse to exchange oxygen, and we all know that an efficient stride is desired. We need to better educate people in this industry on what really matters when it come to the athletic ability of top equine athletes.

re: Good-Bye Mom and Pop?

charles — Sat, 05 Feb 2011 22:03:58 GMT

here's the REAL PROBLEM.....

This "business" got out of control. Period. Nobody should be breeding animals, whether they're thoroughbreds or dogs, if they can't afford to keep them. Yes, it's great when you make $$, but if you can only afford to do it with that result in mind, you're playing a dangerous game...and it's the horse that will end up paying with it's life.

As for the post about how great PA racing is....it's not the racing that's great, it's the slots that are keeping this "dead horse" alive. And when the corporations decide it's a drain on their profits....which they will, not to mention the negative publicity generated by the "sport"....look out people...it's game over.