A Look at Sale Yearlings, Mine That Bird, and Big Butts

re: A Look at Sale Yearlings, Mine That Bird, and Big Butts

draynay — Wed, 03 Jun 2009 15:52:22 GMT

mz,

Isn't a horse considered by where they are dropped? Hence not all with Northern Dancer bloodlines are canucks, only if they are dropped in canada. Kind of like illegal mexicans coming to the USA and dropping their kids here. Because they were born here they are considered US citizens not mexican.

needler in your arm,

My post was addressed to and referenced an earlier one by LCM which had as much to do with the blog title as mine. Ask LCM how we got off track if you really need an answer.

re: A Look at Sale Yearlings, Mine That Bird, and Big Butts

Chris — Wed, 03 Jun 2009 09:53:31 GMT

My favorite small horse is English Channel. Gave his all in every race. So glad he won a championship. Also isn't Rahy pretty small guy as well?

re: A Look at Sale Yearlings, Mine That Bird, and Big Butts

QH Owner — Tue, 02 Jun 2009 20:29:18 GMT

Having been a Quarter Horse owner for almost 40 years, I have seen first hand how the push for bigger more muscular horses has negatively effected that breed. Quarter Horses now have a degenerative & deadly muscular disease (HYPP) that is pervasive, and linked directly to breeding for more muscle. But we still have "Halter Horses", that compete in conformation classes who are too unsound to ride, and all too often resemble beef on the hoof.

I believe that a lot of the heavier muscle seen recently in Thoroughbreds is a result of steroid use. A lot of the horses running in Europe have simialr bloodlines to the horses here, so the heaviness does not seem to be genetic. Steroid use was caused entirely by short term greed--better sales prices for yearlings & 2 year olds in training who were artifically induced to look better. The pitfalls of steroid use--OCD, colts becoming too heavy on the front end at 3, unruly behavior, and future breeding fertility were ignored. Hopefully the steroid ban will be rigorously enforced for all ages of Thoroughbreds (i.e. don't forget the weanlings).

re: A Look at Sale Yearlings, Mine That Bird, and Big Butts

needler in Virginia — Tue, 02 Jun 2009 03:18:14 GMT

I've NO IDEA why I'm responding to a post from, well..........you all KNOW who I'm answering; I just can't say the name. Now that I re-read the most recent post from "the thing", I don't think I will respond after all. Those with little grey cells will know the slurs he makes are ridiculous, and simply his way to muddy the waters and stir up another of his s***storms. I won't address any of his trash directly, as I have better things to do with my life ....like clean the cat boxes!

Suffice it to say, all Yanks are NOT like this other thing. And anyone who knows the name Northern Dancer knows the truth about Canada and its' racing history.

Apologies once removed. PLEASE do not judge everyone by this one poster. Besides, I still can't figure our exactly WHAT his post has to do with the subject of this blog, anyway............

re: A Look at Sale Yearlings, Mine That Bird, and Big Butts

mz — Mon, 01 Jun 2009 21:50:18 GMT

I'm so glad that all the strong Yankee horses come up here to show our weak Cdn horses how it's done...

So tell me, Draynay, how much Northern Dancer blood does Rachel Alexandra have? Doesn't that make her a "canuck" (you spelled it wrong, dear)?

(I now apologize to all New Mexicans for not yelling at you earlier when you trashed New Mexico allowances. Solidarity forever!)

re: A Look at Sale Yearlings, Mine That Bird, and Big Butts

draynay — Mon, 01 Jun 2009 17:24:13 GMT

LCM,

Lanes End, etc. sent their horses up there from the good ole USA to mop up on the weak canuk horses and take their inflated purses. In addition the US dollar is worth more so it costs less to run there. They get better bang for their buck.

re: A Look at Sale Yearlings, Mine That Bird, and Big Butts

Wanda — Mon, 01 Jun 2009 15:27:04 GMT

LCM how tough a sell was Mr Prospector when they moved him to Kentucky from Florida? I remember a quote from the stallion manager who said breeders would just close their eyes when they looked at his legs.

re: A Look at Sale Yearlings, Mine That Bird, and Big Butts

ofelia — Sat, 30 May 2009 23:05:41 GMT

Remember Northern Dancer? He did not sell so the breeder kept him and raced him. The rest is history. Too bad MTB was gelded.

They should mate his parents again and again!

re: A Look at Sale Yearlings, Mine That Bird, and Big Butts

LCM — Sat, 30 May 2009 17:03:05 GMT

As far as the conformation "bias" far too many buyers spend all their time dissecting every minor limb conformation issue, that they never even look at the actual HORSE as a whole! It always surprises me when I go to look at stallions, how many of them have significant conformation issues. Darley had a very difficult time booking Street Cry his first year, as he has extremely offset knees...just go back and look at his first crop sales results...less than impressive. and if anyone has bothered to look at Ashford's HENRYTHENAVIGATOR....well all one can say is "train wreck", but it doesn't stop them from running. Correctness may help soundness, but it doesn't create ABILITY.

re: A Look at Sale Yearlings, Mine That Bird, and Big Butts

LCM — Sat, 30 May 2009 16:58:24 GMT

Hey draynay,

A horse who is both a 2yo CHAMPION and a KY DERBY winner is NOT A FLUKE! His gutsy Preakness performance proved that....You obviously have bet against the horse and have to justify your poor "judgement". And don't belittle his Canadian champion status either....the biggest and best racing operations have a lot of NICE horses up at Woodbine...just ask Adena, Lane's End, Sam Son, Eugene Melnyk, etc...

re: A Look at Sale Yearlings, Mine That Bird, and Big Butts

StardustyRose — Sat, 30 May 2009 15:53:39 GMT

Poormansracehorse...

Yeah the toe out. Seattle Slew was like that. I agree with your posts. :)

re: A Look at Sale Yearlings, Mine That Bird, and Big Butts

Wanda — Sat, 30 May 2009 15:25:03 GMT

Yeah Dray and you were on Smooth Air's bandwagon earlier this year.Poormansracehorse right on about toeing out. As long as the angle is the same all the way down it don't hurt nothing. I raised a cheap little horse who made over 100,000 the hard way and he hardly weighed in at 900 pounds. He retired sound and lives the life of a spoiled brat. All 4 legs darn near came out of the same hole. He looked like a giraffe when he was a yearling but he ran till he was 10 and enjoyed himself and still had lots of try.

re: A Look at Sale Yearlings, Mine That Bird, and Big Butts

needler in Virginia — Sat, 30 May 2009 05:11:28 GMT

The purchasing of yearlings based on how they look at that stage is absurd; each person, horse, dog, goldfish and hamster grows differently. Never mind that a sale group of yearlings probably has wildly different aged animals... anywhere from 7 months (it's possible, it's possible) up to the actual 12 months the term implies; each animal, even of the identical age, grows differently. Dynaformers are historically slow developers, for example. We have all seen GORGEOUS babies grow into NOT-so-gorgeous adults (horses AND humans). One of the prettiest yearlings I ever saw grew into a horse assembled by committee -- knees, hocks, stifles, neck, head -- every bit was either the wrong size or the wrong configuration.

I guess my point is that judging a "smallish" or "incorrect" yearling as unacceptable is as silly as expecting a perfectly formed yearling with a great looking motor to be the "Big Horse". Sounds like judging a cake when it's half baked. If The Bird had been completely overlooked, would we be having this discussion? Maybe not, but every year thousands of horses pass through sales rings, many hundreds are marked RNA and sent home -- ignored by buyers. What about Slew, who was a bargain basement colt? What about General Quarters, the $20,000 claimer? And what about Mine That Bird, bought for $9,500, sold for $400,000, Canadian 2 Year Old of the Year, Derby winner, Preakness runner-up and closing?? Better rethink the criteria being used. Big does not equate to talented and small does NOT equate to useless or bottom level plater.

Safe trips home and cheers to all.

re: A Look at Sale Yearlings, Mine That Bird, and Big Butts

sweet terchi — Fri, 29 May 2009 19:34:56 GMT

Yes Draynay, and your thoughts on yearling sales are?..............OMG!.... I can't believe I asked you that !!! AAGGHHHH, forgive me everyone!

re: A Look at Sale Yearlings, Mine That Bird, and Big Butts

mz — Fri, 29 May 2009 19:23:28 GMT

Didn't Northern Dancer already change what was thought to be the classic horse? And pretty is nice but having the heart to win is another thing, isn't it?

BTW: Draynay: you are sooo cute. Keep up with what we expect from you...it is so much fun to read your comments. Good luck on the Belmont handicapping.

re: A Look at Sale Yearlings, Mine That Bird, and Big Butts

draynay — Fri, 29 May 2009 15:14:41 GMT

MTB is a FLUKE!! A FLUKE FLUKE FLUKE!! He will NEVER win another race in his life!! Watch the Belmont, he won't even finish in the money!! He reminds me of Smooth Air who couldn't even beat a 75k Restricted Stakes field earlier this year. It was a FLUKE when Smooth Air won a "minor" Derby last year.

re: A Look at Sale Yearlings, Mine That Bird, and Big Butts

AMY ROONEY — Fri, 29 May 2009 14:44:23 GMT

SCEPTRE,

MY COMMENT ON WAR ADMIRAL ONLY HITS THE POINT OF THIS ARTICLE HOME. EVERYONE HAS THERE OWN IDEA OF WHAT AN ACCEPTABLE CONFORMATION LOOKS LIKE. I GOT A COLT CHEAP BECAUSE HE DID NOT HAVE THE BABY DOLL QH HEAD, A SLIGHT ROMAN NOSE, BUT NOTHING THAT COMES CLOSE TO BEING A VISION HINDERANCE.

ALSO, MANY GREAT HORSES HAVE BEEN BYPASSED THAT TURNED OUT TO BE SOUND FOR YEARS, NOT JUST THE CLASSIC YEAR.

BY THAT TOKEN MANY STALLIONS HAVE BEEN BYPASSED BECAUSE OF THE LONG TERM SOUNDESS RATHER THAN SHORT TERM SPEED. LOOK AT SIPHON, HE WON AT LONG DISTANCES, YET THEY COULD HARLDY BOOK TO HIM.

UNBRIDLED IS NOTOIOUS FOR PASSING ON THE UNSOUNDNESS OF THE TETRARCH.

BUT YET MOST HORSES LOOK WONDERFUL, PEOPLE BELIEVE IF THE HORSE LOOKS GOOD, THEY MUST HAVE QUALITY TO RUN, SOUND? NOT A BIG DEAL.

re: A Look at Sale Yearlings, Mine That Bird, and Big Butts

Philip Rynn — Fri, 29 May 2009 14:44:13 GMT

I cant help but think back to an old gelding turf horse that was trained by a friend of mine, about 15 years ago..."Just Steady" was a Canadian-bred by Steady Growth, bred by Kinghaven Farm, that stood 15.2 (at the most!), was light of frame, but had a great disposition, and a true affinity for running a distance on turf with a fantastic closing kick. HE SET A TRACK RECORD AT MOUTAINEER PARK in 1993/1994 timeframe, going 1 mile and 3/4ths, I think, on the turf. Sure, it was not a common distance for the track, and was probably not run more than 3 times a year...but "Just Steady" was 13 YEARS OLD, and was making somewhere in the vicinity of his 150th start! If Im way off on my stats, please look up his record and correct. This horse did it by judicious training, selective placement, a racing style that preserved his abilities, and a light frame that kept him sound. Bigger is not better in horse racing. The Rock Hard Tens and Point Givens have tons of ability, but they are oh-so-fragile....just look at the length of their racing careers.

re: A Look at Sale Yearlings, Mine That Bird, and Big Butts

Smarie — Thu, 28 May 2009 20:30:19 GMT

I too am reminded of Northern Dancer when I see Mine That Bird. It's too bad that human prejudices are so firmly entrenched in some people's minds that they cannot see beyond them. I think a smaller horse would stand to stay sounder longer because of less weight and body mass pounding on their fragile legs. Yes, physical attributes are a very important ingredient in a talented racehorse, but so is mind and heart. Mine That Bird has the latter two in abundance. Perhaps breeders and buyers will now look upon smaller Thoroughbreds not just for their size, but for their other qualities as well. This would be a very good thing I believe.

re: A Look at Sale Yearlings, Mine That Bird, and Big Butts

TerriV — Thu, 28 May 2009 20:02:28 GMT

It would only be an improvement if breeders/owners/buyers could break their tunnel vision on "big, bigger, biggest" I remember that Dick Francis book and it just makes the point that often it's that little something you can't put your finger on that makes a great horse. Intelligence, attitude, courage, heart, grace, determination, stamina, a strong & balanced conformation....really a total package. Not just big.

re: A Look at Sale Yearlings, Mine That Bird, and Big Butts

Poormansracehorse — Thu, 28 May 2009 19:23:29 GMT

Another reason for MTB's low sale price was the fact that he toes out considerably in front. Not a big deal in my mind, and far preferrable to toeing in if you want a sound horse.

I like to defer to the Queen of selective breeding, Mother Nature, on issues like structure and off hand I can't think of wild animal that lives or dies by it's speed that doesn't toe out at least a bit. They sure don't toe in.

re: A Look at Sale Yearlings, Mine That Bird, and Big Butts

ecclesiastes — Thu, 28 May 2009 19:20:50 GMT

I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all.

re: A Look at Sale Yearlings, Mine That Bird, and Big Butts

sweet terchi — Thu, 28 May 2009 18:06:10 GMT

I know, some buyers are all about looks but they really don't LOOK at the yearling in front of them and see beyond the shiny sleekness. Wasn't the legend John Henry sold for a $1000.00 or so because he didn't have the "look"? At his retirement I believe he had earned above $6 mil.

re: A Look at Sale Yearlings, Mine That Bird, and Big Butts

sceptre — Thu, 28 May 2009 17:39:15 GMT

Well said, Ms. Biles. Remarks, such as yours, may stimulate some buyers into viewing them with a bit more flexibility. Personal tastes and perspectives, and a sheep following the herd mentality are among the main factors involved... To Ms. Rooney: We view War Admiral's appearance rather differently. I see him as a rather attractive horse, well-balanced, and full of quality...The most beautiful I have ever witnessed was Buckpasser. His type, unfortunately, are few and far between today...

re: A Look at Sale Yearlings, Mine That Bird, and Big Butts

Dianne — Thu, 28 May 2009 17:07:03 GMT

I seem to remember a paragraph in one of Dick Francis' earlier books about a bloodstock agent. The BA was buying the creme de la creme but also bought a "weedy" undersized colt with an intelligent eye, just because--and that weedy colt went on to sire a dynasty. Big and bulky isn't always better. It's a lot of beef to carry around in a horse race.