Fasig-Tipton Changes

re: Fasig-Tipton Changes

mo — Fri, 01 Aug 2008 03:42:43 GMT

Fasig tipton is at a critical stage in their business. Their methode for selection of horses for their sales is out dated and appears to be based on "secret hand shakes of past consigners". A perfect example of this was their July select sale. I was amazed at how many yearlings in this select sale had no black type on the page until the 3rd dam. The quality of this sale, or should I say lack of it, was punctuated by the over 40% RNA. This of course would actually be well over 50% if one was able to include the horse that were actually buy backs but listed as being purchased by a name other than the "owner". While I can not speak for the Florida sales, I can speak from personal experience at the Timmonium, Md. sales. The facilities are out dated and in disrepair to say the least. Their regional sales should be labled the "retread" sales as priority is given to RNA's from their earlier sales in the year. There was a reason these horses were RNA's, they either did not scope or xray properly, or the market just didn't like them. The "Market" already said "we don't want them" but Fasig Tipton says "You will take them". The Fasig Tipton Midlantic sales (yearling and two year old) are two of the latest sales offering for both catagories. A selection committee with any "finger" on the pulse of the market would have long ago realizes that the Midlantic sale is a sale primarily for blue collar race horses. A large percentage of the buyers send their purchases to regional trainers located in the 5 state region. State breds are particularly desirable for these trainers as lucrative stakes programs (The Maryland Million, The West Va. Breeders Classics, Pa. is now starting a similiar program)have been in place for many years. Yet instead cataloging these state breds, The "retread" selection process is given priority. Many people I have talked with no longer attend their Midlantic 2yr old sale because "we had too many soundness problems with the horses we purchased there". When in fact you would have thought that being a later sale (monday in May after the Preakness) these horses would be sounder because of their increased maturity. If Fasig Tipton is going to continue their "retread" selection process, then they should list in the catalogue that "this horse was offered at a previous sale of this year and was RNA or a Turn back and why". Hopefully the Shiek et al, will look back over the RNA numbers and catalogue quality of the current(which is also the past) hierarchy of fasig tipton and clean house. Hopefully they will be replaced with people who have a finger on the pulse of the region they are selling to and will bring a new "beat" to a "worn out drum"

re: Fasig-Tipton Changes

Blade Runner — Wed, 02 Jul 2008 14:28:28 GMT

JJ, that's cool, I probably over reacted a little. Green Monkey is an excellent example.

What I find at the 2-yr old sales is that the horses with the fastest breezes don't always sell for the most, but it definitely gives them a little price boost.

When my trainer and I go to a sale we look at a number of factors; pedigree, sire, dam, conformation, radiographs, faults my trainer can live with and then the breeze. But we know if a horse has a crazy fast breeze then we can throw that horse out because we wont be able to afford it and if we can afford it, then there is probably something seriously wrong with the horse.

There are a lot of problems with our industry and it starts with breeding for the sales and continues on with what goes on at these sales. There need to be some serious changes in the near future.

re: Fasig-Tipton Changes

Bellwether — Wed, 02 Jul 2008 06:46:55 GMT

fast slow coke a moe...you never no till they go to the gate...16 mil. is nothing in todays mony as mony is becomming worthless over here anyway...suck it up...Long Live The King!!!

re: Fasig-Tipton Changes

jj — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 20:10:13 GMT

Haha, chilll ouuutt. No big deal. Man.

It seems like I read somewhere that before they sold Man O'War they would run three heats in a day. At what age did he sell? I mean, I genuinely don't know.

I don't really think one big blowout is that big of a deal. The horses train as yearlings anyway. It seems silly because people still buy horses who don't run the fastest. So why bother?

The buyers are just making fools of themselves really; prime example, The Green Monkey.

re: Fasig-Tipton Changes

Blade Runner — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 18:53:05 GMT

JJ, I didn't say get rid of speed in horse racing, so please do not misquote me, especially since it was written right in front of you. I said to press these horses at such a young age is totally unnecessary. The topic of this BLOG is changes at Fasig Tipton, certainly not the entire racing industry, so of course you want speed. We all do.

I have talked to a number of trainers and consignors and every one of them has said to me, it would be better if we didn't have to push these horses so hard, but unfortunately speed sells, but along with that speed at the sales there is a great amount of pressure on consignors to give these horses a little extra something to get the best breeze out of them. I mean, come on, how many of us have a 2-yr old or yearling and brought it home and just watched it deflate in front of us? And there isn't a single thing you can do about it.

So, JJ, next time you plan on slamming someone, please check the entry and get it right. I never said to get rid of speed in racing, that is just plain asinine to say something like that.

re: Fasig-Tipton Changes

Macara — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 17:08:56 GMT

It would be great if Fasig Tipton would add a searchable database to its website - like the one Keeneland has. Certainly Keeneland's isn't perfect so there is plenty of room for Fasig Tipton to do one better.

Also, I once asked them why they wouldn't automatically send catalogues to my clients overseas and their response was they only send catalogues to people who have purchased there before. I'm not a marketing genius, but that doesn't strike me as the way to encourage new buyers to come to your sale.

re: Fasig-Tipton Changes

been Around — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 11:59:53 GMT

Some good ideas brought forth,

leave out the lounge chairs for the press, for what they have invested and for how they protray the industry, (always consentrating on the negative ) the present accomodations are more than enough

re: Fasig-Tipton Changes

Bellwether — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 08:02:27 GMT

Hire reel promoters like Bellwether Productions for real Exposure...its a lost art not only in Horse Racing but the nation as a hole...it takes gifted people to work a crowd & make them want to come back for MORE...Long Live The King!!!

re: Fasig-Tipton Changes

VAClagett — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 02:21:51 GMT

Hopefully they will seriously consider banning steroids from sale horses of all ages. Also, it would be a good incentive to sponsor races and awards for all drug and/or steroid free winners that come through the Fasig tipton sale ring. Drugs aren't allowed in European race horses, and especially horses cannot be used for breeding stock if they have used drugs - that would be something for American racing to strive for, and the sales ring is a good place to start.

re: Fasig-Tipton Changes

TaxMan — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 01:46:06 GMT

All auction companies, including FasigTipton, should call for complete transparency in their process. That means breeders, pinhookers, agents, and buyers all have to be fully identified. Auto and Art auctions do it, why not horses? I'm sure the Sheiks would love top know whether they're in a bidding war with Coolmore or the consignor who already know their on his horse and keeps driving the price up.

re: Fasig-Tipton Changes

john lossen lex ky — Mon, 30 Jun 2008 22:58:26 GMT

6 53 pm 6/30

joe,

right on. that would be a big advantage for seller and FT filling catologues.

mel,

times aren't a big deal and it sells a few bad horses for big money to people who don't know any better.

#1 fyi Fasig puts down rubber mats at calder around every barn and from every barn to the track.

i dont think they should build a sales complex in fl. obs is sufficient for all the fl sales, ocala has hundreds of tracks and there isn't enough demand to fill a training center in miami year round. besides miami is fun and high class to go to for those that buy there, and if anything i wouldn't be suprised if they bought mcpeeks place here for a track to compete with the mid level 2yo sales later in the spring.

#2 give or take. don't think it would make a difference. people sell at fasig to stand out, not save a few bucks.

#3 everyone is walking around on eggshells as far as disclosure goes. this idea doesn't fit into that category. plus, it is part of the treasure hunt. if you need to know, its not hard to find out. it just takes up more room an a page that already is lacking room for more important info.

#4 at all facilities, but with class, patience, quality; and in saratoga minding the simplicity and history.

#5 new owners are great for the game and industry, but when these are held, new owners are usually directed to a selected few on a list of agents, trainers, advisors or syndicates. the seminars should be a broader platform for all who want new clients to have a chance to showcase their services. let the owners choose from everyone or the list as well as be informed on what to be weary of.

#6 go for it...

#7 it has become quite detrimental to the sport's image.

#8 free shipping is not going to influence anybody to sell or not to sell at FTNOV.

#9 FT is in MAJOR need of a tech upgrade. here's a chance to catch up, adn innovate. Well done.

I would like to see fasig and all the sales companies put lunge rings where consignors can offer or buyers can request to see them (ylgs) move and listen to them. (for free!). i hope consignors would volunteer to do this if it was available. we dont have to follow after the other sales in the world but could adopt some of their ways.

And with so many more foals/crop, there need to be mandatory fees at every sale or at the JC when registering, to raise funds for retirement. i hate to think of a horse going to one of those places, but now that it is banned, there needs to be money NOW to take care of them, or they will face an even slower and painful death of starvation and abuse. better be prepared and cough it up. that would be worse for our image than slaughter ever was.

Thank you bloodhorse for offering a place to share our thoughts and opinions on such a large scale where everyone can access them. Best thing you've done in years.

Sorry for writing a book, but this was a GREAT forum. Don't be offended, but now get more news up and more often. i'm not talking about myself, and don't get mad, but get an independent industry insider to consult with, and listen to them. do a poll, whatever. just remember which audience depends on you, not just the fans.

i'll keep it shorter next time. thx

re: Fasig-Tipton Changes

jj — Mon, 30 Jun 2008 22:53:11 GMT

Did I just see someone say that we need to get rid of speed in horse racing? I thought the whole idea of horse racing was to see who had the fastest horse.

If you want to see a horse with amazing endurance, go watch an endurance race in the deserts of the middle east (or wherever they hold them here in the US!)

Was anyone complaining in Man O'War's day when they had horses going through three heats in a day prior to a sale?

Things are different now for better or worse :)

re: Fasig-Tipton Changes

jj — Mon, 30 Jun 2008 20:57:47 GMT

Any suggestions here cannot possibly be as good as anything what the people the sheiks have already thought up, or paid people to think up. There is nothing but good things instore for Fasig Tipton with the addition of the UAE money.

re: Fasig-Tipton Changes

Jequine — Mon, 30 Jun 2008 20:49:05 GMT

I agree with the steroid ban. It should also be for the yearling sales. Many consignors use them to "improve" their yearlings.

re: Fasig-Tipton Changes

Ed Zepplin — Mon, 30 Jun 2008 20:48:34 GMT

Fasig Tipton should list all of the owners of each horse sold,ban the use of steroids in all horses sold and provide a comprehensive joint and wind warranty like OBS does. Repositoy radiographs are a joke and just adds unnessary expense on the consignor when the buyer will radiograph them any way. This is just a veterinary retirement program.

re: Fasig-Tipton Changes

Blade Runner — Mon, 30 Jun 2008 20:29:28 GMT

All great ideas. How about instead of fast breezes for 2-yr. old sales, they put them through nice easy gallops? We need to see the way these horses move, not how fast they can go when some of them are not even technically 2 yet. The pressure to put these horses through a hard ride is too much to handle. We need to get a way from "speed" and the drugs that go with it.

re: Fasig-Tipton Changes

Mel — Mon, 30 Jun 2008 19:23:57 GMT

All good ideas; but, if we're really going to ban steroids, or anything else, then let's do it. The sale companies have stepped forward and said that they are testing for steroids - but look a bit further. The only testing being done is at the request (and expense) of the buyer. Let's do some random drug sampling, at the sales company's expense, and get rid of the drugs.

One other thing - toss out the stop watch at the 2 yo sales. Stronach doesn't use it and he's selling stakes winner after stakes winner. All we've done is create a 'cheat sheet' for those buyers that know nothing about conformation and athleticism.

re: Fasig-Tipton Changes

Frank — Mon, 30 Jun 2008 19:06:07 GMT

I have sold at FT several times and each one was a 45 day wait on proceeds. Speeding process would help in luring my stock back to FT.

re: Fasig-Tipton Changes

Joe Clabes — Mon, 30 Jun 2008 18:43:42 GMT

Fasig-Tipton should cut checks to sellers when the horse is removed from the gounds. They've already done credit checks on buyers when the account is established, so they should be responsible for collecting. Consignors and owners would see a real advantage to choosing Fasig-Tipton over other sales companies.

re: Fasig-Tipton Changes

jyoung — Mon, 30 Jun 2008 17:50:40 GMT

Those are all great things to think about. They would be even greater if they would really be put into action. I agree much that facilities should be better made to take care of the fragile still developing valuable bones of the horses. No steroids either(Curious if steriod usage over long periods of time in a horses career could cause breeding issues of all kinds from soundness to fertility). Great idea about the informative free updates. One thing i didn't see on the list that I think should be added is young horses should not be pushed to their physical limits at a sale to end up a lump of coal after someone buys the animal.