When Baby Mamas and Their Babies Are Sold

re: When Baby Mamas and Their Babies Are Sold

terry — Mon, 22 Feb 2010 19:32:25 GMT

Ok, enough already. I'm a smaller breeder and the thought of half-carrying a newborn into the sales ring is exactly why there are screams of indignation from "fans" about the state of our industry. If you can't afford to pay the freight for momma and baby; then shame on you for the breeding! Push the sale back to another date and let the baby grow up a little. I'm not saying hang onto them until they're yearlings, but plenty of weanlings go through sales. And as for the buyers...shame on them. Looking at that tiny thing had to brings tons of questions to mind! Is it a viable baby? What care/shots/plasma did it receive? Will it make it through the process? Adult broodmares without the baby by their side are often rattled enough! It can't be a good thing for the baby's mind. If you've spent the time getting the breeding right; patience is the only word you have to remember. In the end; everyone will get the result (sometimes better!) they bred for to start with...

re: When Baby Mamas and Their Babies Are Sold

Somethingroyal — Mon, 22 Feb 2010 13:45:20 GMT

Sceptre-

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and yes I find Ava and several of the other comments disturbing. IMO, many are based on emotions rather than well researched facts. Speaking of facts. When was the last time you researched Sceptre? I believe I read she often raced with a few days rest in between races often against the boys. Where is your disgust what that practice? I agree with Lisa whoever wrote this blog for the Blood-Horse is clueless and needs their head examined. Why the Blood-Horse would allow such an article is mind boggling.

re: When Baby Mamas and Their Babies Are Sold

Perplexed — Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:03:53 GMT

I would like to thank the BloodHorse for taking what is a complete non-issue and turning it into near hysteria. Well Done!

re: When Baby Mamas and Their Babies Are Sold

needler in Virginia — Mon, 22 Feb 2010 02:18:29 GMT

LHart, you have my apologies; either I missed something in your post or misread it, as it really did come across as a bit of a PETA rant. All I was trying to say (and I DID begin to lose it for a bit) is that there are loads of people caring and doing for horses with little or no actual barrels of money or medals or awards dinners. They do it because they love being around horses, as you obviously do, too. I do think many are "in it for the money" and there's the rub, but I won't revisit that, either. For some of the posters to suggest that a call to Keeneland or Fasig-Tipton would keep the mare and foal pair out of sales in, in the worst sense, a joke....for many reasons.

Rather than get myself all worked up again, I will apologize and hope you accept it. I obviously have no business posting on the 19th of ANY month! My best to you and your crooked ankle rescue baby....give him a carrot for me, please.

Cheers and safe trips.

re: When Baby Mamas and Their Babies Are Sold

LISA — Mon, 22 Feb 2010 01:02:38 GMT

OH MY! Don't panic. Obviously whoever wrote this has no clue about the way this is done. Of course, the mama and baby are not separated. Geeezzzzz

re: When Baby Mamas and Their Babies Are Sold

Heather Benjamin — Mon, 22 Feb 2010 00:21:18 GMT

"Horselover" writes:

" ... makes me want to scream to you all to go back to your suburban back yards and look after the squirrels and birds because you know nothing about horses."

Yes, great advice. Y'all get lost, you people who don't understand a horse is just a machine to be bought and sold, and tossed when no longer profitable.

Oh wait, too late: Most of those people, a/k/a FANS, are already GONE, which is why racing is in such a state. No problem. Just keep it up and lose the REST of the fans who haven't yet walked away in disgust over industry practices.

re: When Baby Mamas and Their Babies Are Sold

bossmare — Mon, 22 Feb 2010 00:18:07 GMT

Can someone PLEASE take doen this blog. All the idiots.....and I "do" mean idiots are killing....much less making the industry look bad. I would like to ask how many of you who complained about the foal going into the sale ring have EVER sat up for nights on end waiting for a mare to foal? How many of you have woke up to find a foal in the stall when the mare wasnt due for 3 weeks? How many of you have slept in the barn or by the video monitor , setting you alarm clock for every 30 minutes waiting for a foal who is 3 weeks late? It is not a science!!!! It is not cruel to show a mare and foal!!! It is not cruel to sell a mare and foal!!! The mare and foal are going together!!! Its not like at the stockyard where they take the poor weak calf away from its mom and sell it to some poor soul that has to bottle feed it. It is going to stay with it's mare. And, if the foal were sickly....the owner would probably pull the mare from the sale.

So, get over it please.

re: When Baby Mamas and Their Babies Are Sold

MGM — Sun, 21 Feb 2010 09:38:10 GMT

Lets hope that there is law preventing this in the future... come on breeders.... it cant all be about making a buck for your pockets is it? a newborn foal... being carried. come on.!!! we rally to prevent slaughter.... what about auctioning mothers who just delivered and new foals... where is the paws protecting them.

re: When Baby Mamas and Their Babies Are Sold

LHart — Sun, 21 Feb 2010 06:08:45 GMT

Needler in Virginia-

Why so cranky? Do not try to catagorize me as someone to be dismissed because I don't know what I'm talking about. A close relative of mine owns one of the top ten thoroughbred horse farms in KY; VERY well known. He knows how I feel. I know every aspect of this "business". I'm around it always. I have spent time at horse farms in KY, NY and Ocala for years. You immediately assume I know nothing about it because I dont agree with it. Thatshow I grew to despise it, being around it for so long. I know what goes on, have seen it first hand. Facts, first hand accounts, photos and documentation of the abuse that goes on, got it all. Research? What a joke! Funny you mentioned Saratoga. My latest research project is nursing a 11 year old gelding that I just rescued after he ran his last race in October. He raced in a $1500 claiming race. Eight years ago he raced at the SPA in a grade 1 for $200,000. Total earnings over 1 mil. His thanks? thrown away with four busted ankles. I'll continue to rant until things change.

re: When Baby Mamas and Their Babies Are Sold

Ike — Sun, 21 Feb 2010 03:55:27 GMT

While I agree this is wrong, people always look at the bad of Horse racing. They assume way to much. Things have begun to change such as steroids/drugs and the racetrack surfaces. Also, when people say the sport should be banned they need to think how many more people would be without jobs, the revenue the state makes, how many more unwanted horses sent to slaughter(not being raced) Hey may bebad to say but it is true.

re: When Baby Mamas and Their Babies Are Sold

sceptre — Sun, 21 Feb 2010 02:05:50 GMT

Somethingroyal- re-your remark about Ava's suggestion that we contact Keeneland about the matter. If her suggestion is indeed the most "disturbing" thing you've read in 35 yrs. related to the horse industry you either don't read, or have a rather warped ethic. So, her suggestions is, for example, more "disturbing" than the relatively recent Paragallo fiasco (to name but one of many)? Speaks volumes as to where your head is at-protect the industry at all costs.

re: When Baby Mamas and Their Babies Are Sold

nancy — Sun, 21 Feb 2010 01:38:28 GMT

You have to be crazy to allow such a thing. I don't give a damn how much the horse is or when the sell is. Pull her and baby out of sell. This is so cruel beyond words. Humans can be the worst for animal kind. Someone should of stopped this. In my eyes the same kind of people would sell to killer buyers.

re: When Baby Mamas and Their Babies Are Sold

LCM — Sat, 20 Feb 2010 20:28:16 GMT

Ava

You should contact Fasig Tipton as well. In fact the majority of mares with foals selling do so at the February sale, as a good number of mares are due at that time. From what I could tell, it seemed a lot of the mares with foals at their side were sold by Select Sales agency. At least that was my impression.

re: When Baby Mamas and Their Babies Are Sold

Somethingroyal — Sat, 20 Feb 2010 18:09:10 GMT

Ava-

Never in my 35 years of being involved with horse racing have I read something so disturbing as your post.

re: When Baby Mamas and Their Babies Are Sold

Destin — Sat, 20 Feb 2010 14:08:13 GMT

I was at a Quarter-horse Sale in Oklahoma City and I had a mare that was consigned to sell and she was pregnant. Nearing time for the sale she began to come into labor. Not only Did the sale company allow me to postpone the sale, The made several announcements that the mare and foal would not be coming into the ring therefore possible buyers needed to further inspect the lot back in the barn area. I don't see why this would not work in the Thoroughbred industry.

re: When Baby Mamas and Their Babies Are Sold

lazaro — Sat, 20 Feb 2010 12:24:56 GMT

i work in the medical field as a medical technologist and i have been doing this type of work for more than 40 years.

i bring this up only to state that i've been witness to multitudes of errors that have occurred as a result of ignorance, negligence, laziness or any combination thereof. some have been life threatening and others no doubt, cost human lives. medical malpractice is well documented.

that is why it is so amazing to read these blogs and to hear the reverberating and collective utterance of the thoroughbred people. Us? vets never misdiagnose and kill horses! unskilled handlers never let fractious horses get away from them! farriers always trim hooves to the perfect degree of angle!

this is my perception of all of the bloggers who so passionately defend their profession and never admit to any impropriety or error. we know that this is not the case, never was and never will be.if you came down from your "high horses", maybe the bleeding hearts would have a little better understanding of what you do and the effort you put into it.

re: When Baby Mamas and Their Babies Are Sold

Rachel — Sat, 20 Feb 2010 11:39:44 GMT

bossmare, I LOVE racing, it's the business end I've come to dislike (mostly from all the exposure here on BH, lol) to the point that I don't think I can be an owner. (e.g. Undocumented chain of ownership, no transparency in medical history, suspicious bidding activities)

I am not a PETA person. In fact, I am a horse/dog person.

When I was younger I worked many jobs in racing from feeding, mucking, rubbing, wrapping, tubbing, hosing for hours on end, walking hots, exercise gal.

I have owned, bred and shown champion Arabian horses including a Grand Prix Dressage horse.

I have imported working dogs from all over the world and created a multi-generational breeding program for police dogs.

I have rehabbed & retrained many a "problem" horse and dog.

I stand by my remarks.

re: When Baby Mamas and Their Babies Are Sold

jeffrey — Sat, 20 Feb 2010 03:20:42 GMT

Will these people leave keenland out of this its a company and a damn good one. why do some people criticise them for trying to make a profit, that is the goal of the company you work for? just because their profit is made by animals at their facility for a week or so.they're supposed to be responsible for what the owner decides to sell in their sale? there could be more to the reason for sale than meets the surface.for you who think that the slaughter is so terrible, well it is but thats the fault of the people who forced the american houses out of business. it was still bad but far better than the canadian or mexican houses. further on who is to say that a horse is too good for slaughter but thousands of cows and other livestock meet this fate every day. if you dont have horse and believe a foal going through the ring is such a bad then you should leave horse sales alone and attack the veal industry or something.but for the people who decide to call me cruel before you say it id like to let you know none of my horses go to slaughter. well thats my 2 cents

re: When Baby Mamas and Their Babies Are Sold

Amber — Sat, 20 Feb 2010 02:30:55 GMT

I'm not "in" the racing industry, I dont have any money invested into race horses. That being said I do own horses and am not really concerned with this practice. If you could show me data that says vets have to get called more often to mare and foals stalls or something that was factual instead of emotional I might reconsider. But what worries me most is the use of the word cruel. What is cruel? Is it just stress,Is it physical pain? what exactly. I look at a healthy mare and foal who are given attention and proper care and I dont see cruelty in that. Instead of people going after a place like Keeneland for this try going to you local auction house this time of year and you can see a grade mare who's 300lbs under weight with a sickly foal at her side. Fight there, those are the ones that really, truely need help. Just my opinion though.

re: When Baby Mamas and Their Babies Are Sold

Gail — Sat, 20 Feb 2010 02:28:11 GMT

The inclusion of this article really is not helpful with all the other problems the racing industry is having now. Most of the people responding here obviously do not have horses and are only involved with NOW horses. Common sense would be nice. Some of the people here are horse people. While I do not think the timing of this sale is very good. Horses, much as I love them are a way of life which translates to the way horse people make a living. There is good and bad in every way of life, it's too bad the worst has been so public lately. Having bred show dogs for 25 years I reserve judgement on alot I see happening because there is always--the rest of the story--which is usually not told. Most people trying to sell their horses are not the bad guys, some of what they see as normal is upsetting for people whose only contact is the written word or TV. I really think the Blood-Horse should be more careful about what they print.

re: When Baby Mamas and Their Babies Are Sold

TXLonghorn74 — Sat, 20 Feb 2010 01:23:50 GMT

Horses are LIVESTOCK! Please stop acting like they are human beings. They are not! If you can't handle animals being treated - humanely - like animals, then yes, by all means, leave this "horrible dream" of a sport behind....but thanks for postponing your boycott until its convenient for you. (Now that's righteous outrage!)

The fact valuable racehorses and breeding stock receive better care and physical protection than many less fortunate human beings in this country - not selling mares heavy in foal or with foals at side - should make us all all take pause.

I know you folks love horses and mean well, but dang....grow up!

re: When Baby Mamas and Their Babies Are Sold

c stables — Sat, 20 Feb 2010 01:06:50 GMT

just an update on Desert stormer and foal both are doing great .The foal never looked back from his sales ring trip and both are enjoying been spoiled in the bluegrass.

re: When Baby Mamas and Their Babies Are Sold

quarterhossgal — Fri, 19 Feb 2010 22:34:02 GMT

I have owned horses and have raised foals and I can tell you none of my mares and foals would ever be presented at a sale one day after foaling!! If it is necessary to sell the mare most buyers will let the foal stay with the mare until an early weaning can be arranged. Then and only then would they be seperated. A big multi-million dollar operation didn't NEED to sell the mare and foal at that age. They did for one reason only, their convenience!! I've seen some mare colic after foaling just because of stress. A sale ring with all the activity is no place for a new born foal and his dam. I know what work it is to keep a farm going and the 24 -7

it takes to keep the horses fed and healthy but it is worth it all.

I feel honored to work with these

magnificent animals and I will not

compromise their care for my convenience.

re: When Baby Mamas and Their Babies Are Sold

kyndle — Fri, 19 Feb 2010 21:48:45 GMT

Call Keeneland all you want, waste your time if you wish. Nothing will change because nothing is being done wrong. Although I'm sure they will get a kick out of your messages (as I'm sure many are on here, including myself). This is just like foolish peta ppl suggesting that nobody should keep pets, or put a dog on a leash, etc. because it is "cruel and unnatural". I am all for animals being treated ethically, and do so with the animals I own, and work with, and unfortunatly there are many out there who do not treat them with respect, but this is definatley not one of those situations. But like I said we all need a good laugh sometimes :)

re: When Baby Mamas and Their Babies Are Sold

needler in Virginia — Fri, 19 Feb 2010 21:10:27 GMT

LHart.....I have never made one penny on horses, except maybe a crappy trifecta at Saratoga; I have never sold a horse or rented one or leased one or gone into a foal share agreement. NEVER. The horses we have, we have chosen to keep because they are our friends and because we do not throw away friends like used kleenex. THEY are our financial responsibility, we pay for their feed, their vet care, their foot care and their sessions with their shrink. They do not represent a dollar figure for us.....we are lucky that way.......and I resent that you place ALL horseman in that category. I would be far more willing to listen to your rant if you knew what you were talking about. There are horse lovers, caretakers, grooms, hotwalkers, outriders, trainers, exercise riders, farriers, vets who do NOT get rich at their chosen livelihoods....far more than those that do. There have been times for us when the vet bill came first over another bill because the horses are in our care and it is OUR job to care for them.....full stop. We bought them, raised them, trained them and here we are now caring for aging equines. They will NOT be sold; they will die at home with us. MORE FOLKS THAN YOU KNOW DO THE SAME THING ALL THE TIME. The only reason you carry on like this is that you only know about the side of racing that sets your hair on fire. Visit ANY breeding farm in the Bluegrass, or Texas, or Louisiana, or New Mexico, or California or any other damned place you can think of and I'd bet you might learn a thing or two about how these poor, sad, mistreated critters live. YES, there are crappy, miserable, selfish, cruel people who wouldn't know how to care for a Breyer horse, never mind a real one..........THOSE are the ones you read about and hear about and cause the most stir...... but DO NOT

paint all of racing and/or horse owners with your broad brush.

PLEASE do a little more research before you shout at us, and don't rely on your heart when you do.... rely on what you actually see and hear; rely on objective evidence rather than a tale of cruelty and neglect or worse, an "well, I heard from a friend....." You MIGHT find more people willing to listen if you could present an objective argument in defense of your position....a position backed with facts, photos and direct testimony...otherwise, rant and rave and carry on about ALL of us, but you had better come loaded for bear if you ever accuse me of what you so casually wrote above.

Cheers and safe trips.