The Fans Have Spoken

re: The Fans Have Spoken

aldavis — Sat, 09 Oct 2010 18:31:34 GMT

Okay, we all have our opinions and thats cool. Here is mine, Zenyatta belongs at the top and I would trade out Ruffians #2 spot and put Azeri there, put Ruffian at #3 or where ever. I also would place the likes of these all above Rachel Alexandra who certainly belongs on this list, but below...Azeri, Ladys Secret, Bayakoa, Winning Colors and certainly Twilight Tear who never even made the list fools.

Shane, Personal Ensign over Zenyatta when she has won six, yes six less undefeated races than big Z....come on get real. And if Peppers Pride is on the list why isn't Hallowed Dreams, yes another...get real.

re: The Fans Have Spoken

EDWIN F. NEU — Sun, 01 Aug 2010 03:20:37 GMT

I agree with most of the above, but would like to nominate a minor Stakes winner, Readtfourshoes, by name. I n one of her final, if not her final race, she was being walked around the barns at River Downs, [ She raced at Churchill, Latonia, most often ] when a former assitant trainer,"Poor Marie", who hadn't been near the filly in over a year, had the exercise boy stop for a moment, and softly said into the horse's ear, "Ready, remember me.?? I'm Marie - now give me a paw." That wonderful filly raised her left leg - she did. She really did.!!! And to this day, no one will believe me. This happened in circa, 1970's. A $79 digital camera was all I needed, back then. Too bad. Ed. N.

re: The Fans Have Spoken

Mike Relva — Sun, 25 Jul 2010 20:39:29 GMT

MONICA V

Thanks for the kind words.

re: The Fans Have Spoken

Kathleen — Sun, 25 Jul 2010 18:34:19 GMT

In case you haven't heard the news, St. Trinian's trainer has decided not to race her at Del Mar siting soreness and stiffness -

thanks to Zenyatta's wearing her out in the Vanity (his words). She will not return to racing until next year. St. Trinians trainer also said he hopes that the Mosses stick to their guns and retire Zenyatta next year! St Trinian's is a very good mare and has won a majority of her races but was no match for the Queen !

And yet Zenyatta just had one of her fastest work outs ever...she apparently needed the race against St. Trinians (the Vanity) to sharpen her form. It still remains to be seen if Zen will run at Del Mar..the track is still a questionable issue for her owner.

All the great racehorses should have stories/books published about them! Zenyatta may be one of the largest racehorses (male or female) of all time! 17.2 hands..any lifesize statute would be enormous !

re: The Fans Have Spoken

markinsac — Sun, 25 Jul 2010 13:46:08 GMT

The talk about Laura Hillenbrand and Seabiscuit, Secretariat and the silver screen make me wonder: Of all these great filly's and mares, which one's careers will make it to the movies? I know that Zenyatta already has a date with tinsle town, she performs there and I'd say Ruffian might make it too. I'm sure Santa Anita, Del Mar and Oaklawn are considering a statue of Zenyatta. Is there one of Ruffian at any of the NY tracks? Can somebody tell me? Right now, Santa Anita has Seabiscuit and John Henry Statues, Hollywood Park has a Citation statue. The statue is the sign of greatness.

re: The Fans Have Spoken

Zen's Auntie — Sun, 25 Jul 2010 05:34:45 GMT

Collette M. I meant only to agree with you, Not to admonish you for posting your own views (especially since they are much the same as mine ;^)

I saw some fine race fillys today I really cant wait till Devil May Care can see Blind Luck - you gotta LOVE gutsy girls. I liked to see Rachel run and got a huge charge out of a very game Queen Martha - Nice effort on her part and she looked the part of a graded stakes winner - I wish her the Best in the future.

Oh and Deacon on the issue of you being miffed at the mention on someones personal list of fillys like Pine Island (she was 4 - 2 - 0 in 6 starts including 2 grade 1 wins and 2 grade 1 seconds when she broke down in the BC Distaff in 2006)you can uh..... bite me.

re: The Fans Have Spoken

Kathleen Wiltsey — Sun, 25 Jul 2010 00:14:13 GMT

Any filly/mare that won the Breeder's Cup Classic against the best males of the year AND was purchased for a mere $60 K while returning over 6 Million in earnings deserves the # 1 spot. I think Ruffian perhaps should be tied with Zenyatta...she had a great career and (albeit) sad ending and maybe Laura Hillenbrand will write a book or short story about her someday. There is no question that Laura Hillenbrand's moving NPR recording about Zenyatta's charismatic personality raised her public profile immensely! After the Secretariat movie comes out in the Fall, stories about charasmatic and great racehorses will again take center stage.

re: The Fans Have Spoken

Arem — Sat, 24 Jul 2010 22:04:20 GMT

I'll agree with that list.... except for one thing. Swap the first two.

As much as I like Zenyatta, Ruffian is my top filly *ever.*

re: The Fans Have Spoken

MonicaV — Sat, 24 Jul 2010 21:24:43 GMT

Mike Relva,

Short, simple post, very profound and thank you.

re: The Fans Have Spoken

Soldier Course — Sat, 24 Jul 2010 16:11:28 GMT

Barbara W:

Zenyatta has caught Laura Hillenbrand's attention and that's what counts. It may not be for the same reason that Seabiscuit inspired her, but there's a grand story and warm human interest there. There's the Jerry and Ann Moss history, and the fact that Zenyatta's trainer (John Shirreffs) married their racing manager (Dottie Ingordo).

As far as Zenyatta not being a surprise, try convincing the person who sold her for $60,000 of that.

re: The Fans Have Spoken

jayjay — Fri, 23 Jul 2010 17:09:35 GMT

LAZ : Thanks, I like your posts too, I learn a lot from them. I also understand about having a favorite and sometimes it's hard not to give the others their due but you hit the nail on the head, all of our comments are really directed to the owners, not the horse. The horses do their jobs regardless of what the owners asked them to do. Sometimes, in Rachel's case, she can't but she tries hard all the time.

Enjoy the opening weekends at Delmar and Saratoga! May you hit the big one!

re: The Fans Have Spoken

Fran Loszynski — Fri, 23 Jul 2010 12:27:15 GMT

Ruffian will always be first in my mind but as a horseracing fan you have to give Zenyatta her due. She is a great fille. I hope her success continues, and has a wonderful healthy life. Her fans love her so much. I heard a little man about 80 years old yelling from the stands "My Zenyattaaaaa!"

Thank you for the list Steve. It shows us what horse fans like.

re: The Fans Have Spoken

Deacon — Fri, 23 Jul 2010 02:24:12 GMT

It's funny Steve, you have to keep repeating yourself about this blog NOT being about TURF horses. It's about the greatest fillies and mares of the past 50 years. The folks (with respect) who can't read instructions had a vote, pretty scary who they may have voted for. Blogs like these are fun but obviously it lacks accuracy. I am no one to put down another person's choices but honestly, some of the selections were down right laughable. Steve, your list compares closely to mine. Ruffian, Lady's Secret, Zenyatta, and Personal Ensign. Gallant Bloom, Susan's Girl, Gamely and Shuvee were iron ladies. That is a fact. But sheer brilliance, that's argueable. I do however believe that they absolutely belong on the list.

Let's define brilliance in a race horse, this too is argueable. Ruffian,

Ta Wee, Rachel, Moccasin, Landaluce, Go For Wand, Rags To Riches and Princess Rooney were brilliant. careers cut short by injuries. Passion for a particular horse was probably responsible for many of the voters decisions. You can't define love for a horse, it just happens. Some horses just get into your heart and never leave. Great blog nonetheless, stimulating, and informative. It brought back many old memories.

If there were a voting for TURF fillies and mares, my selections would be

Dahlia

All Along

Allez France

Ouiga Board

Goldikova

Zarkava

to nsme 5.

Thanks again Steve.........

re: The Fans Have Spoken

skyfire — Fri, 23 Jul 2010 00:17:10 GMT

Steve,

This has been fun!! I beg to differ with you, though; I think all voters were sincere and passionate, but many weren't diligent in informing themselves and researching top mares from previous decades, and viewing older races. Peppers Pride is an example of fan passion, but should not be mentioned in the same breath as Ruffian, Zenyatta, Gamely, etc, or even be considered.

Ignorance leads to erroneous conclusions.

For this reason, I would love to see you interview experts such as John Nerud who really know horses and greatness, and post their views.

re: The Fans Have Spoken

Jim C. — Fri, 23 Jul 2010 00:15:27 GMT

Even though I abstained from voting (because it's too premature at this point), thanks for putting this together, Steve.

I hope that, after Zenyatta retires, you author the Thoroughbred Legends series book on her, or maybe even an extended, larger biography. ( Laura Hillenbrand has taken an interest in Zenyatta: www.npr.org/.../story.php )

re: The Fans Have Spoken

Cleone — Fri, 23 Jul 2010 00:04:39 GMT

Thanks for looking for my list, Steve! No, no turf fillies or pre-1960 fillies on it! I'm sure computer gremlins just ate it somewhere on its journey from me to you. Since people are still posting on the other blog, I think I'll go ahead and repost my list and my recreated (as best I could remember them!) comments over there anyway.

re: The Fans Have Spoken

Barbara W — Thu, 22 Jul 2010 21:34:40 GMT

Colette Marie--my sympathy and prayers go out to you.

Soldier Course--great idea! I wish Laura Hillenbrand would write Zenyatta's story. The only problem is that she was always regal, not a "surprise" like Seabiscuit.

Not much new here except the same rehashings. I will say once again that the thought lingers in my mind that Zenyatta could have possibly been our Triple Crown winner had she been campaigned harder in her 3-year-old year. But we'll never know because her connections valued her too much to wear her out.

As far as running her all over the country, people need to remember that air travel is very expensive and takes a toll on the horse. Not only that, most horses won't show up to face her.

Thanks, Steve, for putting up with all of us again for another round!

re: The Fans Have Spoken

LAZMANNICK — Thu, 22 Jul 2010 20:54:02 GMT

jayjay

I love your post......you really are a true racing fan. I think the more we get into the history of horse racing, especially with the delicate situation it is rapidly moving into, and realize that there will always be more than one horse in a race, we'll be the better for it and learn in time to cheer for all the horses, not just one or two. I've been around this game for a long time and am still learning to be humble and try and give all their just due. I still don't do it all the time, but I am doing it more and more and that's important. It's okay to have our favorites, but it shouldn't be okay to actually run a horse down or belittle it and I know that most of the time when this is done it is the owners or the trainers that we are actually pointing our anger and sarcasm at. It's not the horses that cause us to take sides like we do at times, it's people. The horses give their all and are just innocent participators. They all have their stories, all have their idiosyncrasies, their own aches and pains and they still try their best. In the end that's all anyone can ask. Have a good one.

re: The Fans Have Spoken

ETHAN — Thu, 22 Jul 2010 20:52:40 GMT

I really enjoyed reading about the great filly / MAres of the past

Since I haven' been watching Horse racing for long I had never heard of a good portion of the these horses. It was extremely interesting and I will resaerch more about them on my own time.

I think it would be really cool if you had a similar poll for male horses because it is extremely interesting hear the opinions of people who saw them race (like many of the commenters on the blog) as opposed to merely looking at stats it gives a different feel

re: The Fans Have Spoken

Footlick — Thu, 22 Jul 2010 20:49:41 GMT

jayjay- the story of my blog name may not be appropriate for all-lol. Trainers back then expected the weight assignments. They may not have liked it, but it was what racing was then.

re: The Fans Have Spoken

jayjay — Thu, 22 Jul 2010 20:12:27 GMT

Sorry Steve, after reading a few articles from your blogsite, I managed to find a better writer IMO and I'm stealing a quote from the writer's article. I'll keep this quote on a post-it by my desk and will instill it on my lil girl:

" I guess life doesn't always show you the easy path. It's all those dead ends and roundabouts that allow you to recognize the right path when it appears before you. "

- Mandy

Ok Ok...it's from the same apple tree. Say Steve, not sure if this is too much to ask but was wondering if you can post those pics with Mandy and all the great horses when she was little. I'd love to see those. It's okay if you can't though lol.

The Skip Away article (from 2008) actually made me teary eyed. I was just starting to get into racing at the time Skip Away was running. I had no idea what the horses were doing, it was mostly betting numbers and trying to win money for me at the time but reading this article, I kind of feel guilty and regretful that I didn't pay more attention to the horses and the human stories behind them. You're one lucky fella Steve!

Between Friends : You're right, that blog Damascus vs Dr. Fager is a great read. At some point during the read, I was actually rooting for Damascus after his initial attack and thought he was going to catch him after he backed off to take a breather. I'm still in awe that Dr. Fager ran in two back to back 1 1/4 races carrying over 130 lbs. I cheated and watched it on youtube afterwards and Steve nailed it down with his description of the entire race. I also thought it was really cool watching Dr. Fager's "new look" with the long mane looking like a wild horse. If Steve hadn't mentioned that in the blog, I wouldn't have noticed it. The only really really weird thing about reading this article was that the comments after it were kind of odd. There were no fighting between Dr. Fager and Damascus' fans, there were no insults thrown at each other. I was wondering what was wrong with these people, still haven't figured it out...

Footlick : (BTW, I'm still intrigue by your name lol), it'd be awesome to be able to go back in time and actually watch those races. It's very different from what racing is now. My feeling is that during those times, the trainers (who are mostly in charge of the horses) don't complain too much about the conditions of the races. They all rely on the abilities of their horses so weights weren't a big deal to them, they all believed that they have a great horse so they run them with whatever they put on them which made for a truly great horse racing. Back then, it was always about the horse's abilities.

I'm having a great time with these blogs Steve, THANKS for keeping them online!

re: The Fans Have Spoken

Deacon — Thu, 22 Jul 2010 18:08:52 GMT

Sceptre:

I voted for Numbered Account, she was in my Top 10. Some of these names on the list do not belong. It's almost an insult to the all greats to include them, Take Charge Lady, Pine Island, Xtra Heat, c'mon folks. Like I said in an earlier blog, it's apparent many of today's fans do not know the great fillies and mares of the past. Ruffian is #1, I will argue that until my last breath.

re: The Fans Have Spoken

SMTDL — Thu, 22 Jul 2010 18:07:58 GMT

Thanks Steve for creating the Poll.As one who has been a racing fan since the 60's and race track attendee since the early 70's, I loved the way you captured the careers of so many memorable female racehorses.

I was expecting a Zenyatta win because of the media advantage of today and some fans not having seen many of the tough distaffers on your list.I appreciate the reminders of how durable and accomplished these horses were.Zenyatta's perfect record is notable but so lightly and carefully raced over the past 3 years(5 races in 2009!) ,I would imagine old time trainers asking why doesn't she race more.That fact and the issues surrounding synthetic tracks really made it hard for me to justify her ranking when compared to the other "dirt" fillies.Its almost like one undefeated turf filly being compared to all of the others.In any event it will be interesting to see if Zenyatta or Rachel change how they are perceived between now and when their racing careers end.

Also it looks that the influence of the Breeders Cup will make it even harder to compare horses over time.The Mother Goose was shortened this year and I see the CCA Oaks is also being shortened.Since the BC Ladies Classic was shortened,many of the signature filly races (Beldame,Vanity,etc ) have been shortened over time. That adds to the difficulty in seeing Zenyatta who has run once further than a mile and an eighth rated so much higher than fillies that ran more longer distances even against males(Shuvee).JCGC 2 mi->1.5mi->1.25 mi.

While the Breeders Cup Has been good for racing,it seems to have encouraged breeding horses that won't get a distance.Is that a good thing?

re: The Fans Have Spoken

Convene — Thu, 22 Jul 2010 17:57:31 GMT

It's hard to rate yesterday against today as so much has changed. One would sure hope horses have improved over all thos years, at least as regards the list. However, I would still feel more confident about Zen as No. 1 if she had faced males more than once as well as more diverse company. For me, I'd still put Ruffian up there - but unfortunately, because of that #%^%# match race, she remains a song never fully sung. Still and all, the list is fun and the poll is fun - and no, I'm not going to get hot under the collar about the Zen/Rachel debate. I like who I like and only the future could change my mind. Thanks for the jaunt into the years when I fell in love with this sport.

re: The Fans Have Spoken

Footlick — Thu, 22 Jul 2010 15:33:17 GMT

Zookeeper- that is true. There are many who try not to get into the perpetual purgatory that is the Z/RA diatribes. I know you have to expect it, but it is interesting to me what non recency horses actually cracked the top and how many brilliant others are mired down below. It is a difficult task because all these horses have great credentials, otherwise they would not have been on the list.

jayjay- reading Mr Haskin's many, many blogs is a great trip down memory lane for me, as I remember so many of those horses and Mr Haskin not only captured them but also the times they ran. It is great and entertaining and informative reading. Worthy of a book.