Retire Rachel? Why?

re: Retire Rachel? Why?

pasturelands — Sat, 25 Sep 2010 11:19:33 GMT

There is NO FAULT with Rachel.

Don't retire the horse, RETIRE THE TRAINER!! CLEARLY, Steve Asmussen is not doing his job well, and his crew is NOT inspiring RA to do her best.

What really astounds me is why it takes 3 losses for people to realize this -- RA needs a HAL WIGGINS to train her, if you expect her to get back to championship form.

HAL WIGGINS is great for fillies -- from Youtube videos and interviews, I can tell he treats his fillies with respect and adoration. He actually inspires them to work harder. Can't say the same about STEVE A. and SCOTT. They are both assholes, and ego-maniacs who treat fillies with disdain and ignorance.

RETIRE STEVE ASMUSSEN, and LET RACHEL BE A CHAMPION AGAIN !!!

re: Retire Rachel? Why?

sodapopkid — Sun, 12 Sep 2010 18:46:45 GMT

I wish someone would answer this question? Zenyatta's owners won award for being the best owners for her for 2009 and for their region, Why didnt Jess Jackson win any of those awards for RA for 2009?

Has reallity finally set in?

re: Retire Rachel? Why?

txhorsefan — Sat, 11 Sep 2010 22:55:19 GMT

Fran, just wanted to say thanks for remembering the horses lost in WV. Yes, we do need to appreciate how fortunate we are. Thanks!

re: Retire Rachel? Why?

Forte — Fri, 10 Sep 2010 13:32:57 GMT

Rachel lost the Personal Ensign after dueling with another fantastic horse that we know can get 1 1/4 in Life at Ten. Yet, Life at Ten finished far behind Rachel in the Personal Ensign. Rachel hasn't ran up to her top form the two times she has ran at Saratoga, indicating that she doesn't care for the surface. Persistently was undefeated at Saratoga. It's a deep tiring surface and many horses don't care for it. That is why it is called the graveyard of favorites.

Let's go two races back to the Fleur De Lis where she ran faster than Blame at the same distance on the same day and at the same track as the Stephen Foster. Was she not in her top form then? I think that she was. If she can run faster than Blame at CD, when she wasn't even all out, doesn't she deserve to be put in the BC Classic?

Rachel runs like a monster at CD and I don't think she is done yet. I'm also not sold that she can't get 1 1/4 when she didn't like the track the two times that she has gone over 1 1/8. She won one of those races in the Preakness.

Rachel lost her first two races because they rushed her back before she was ready. I'm not going to fault her for losing the Personal Ensign at all. I knew that she wasn't as good at Saratoga going into the race.

If she runs well next time out and is 100%, then there is no doubt in my mind that she should be in the BC Classic. If she gets beat, then so be it, but I still believe in her and I believe that she has a great chance to win.

re: Retire Rachel? Why?

Kauto Star — Wed, 08 Sep 2010 23:26:09 GMT

Not held back a la Zenyatta, because that's not her style, but in a stalking position. That would preserve her speed, as I honestly feel too much effort was used to outgun Life At Ten, therefore setting her up for a closing horse. A better strategy would have been to rate a couple of lengths behind Life At Ten, then go for home coming into the stretch.

re: Retire Rachel? Why?

Dr Drunkinbum — Tue, 07 Sep 2010 23:03:12 GMT

Steve

That was a brilliant piece of work-Countdown-The Road Keeps Going. All points were right on. Your versatility, and observational skills combined with your writing skills is shockingly good. That piece was perfection.

re: Retire Rachel? Why?

Dr Drunkinbum — Tue, 07 Sep 2010 21:40:33 GMT

Slew

Great post at 10:38am. I like the term aberration, or upset. I just don't think that other word is correct for racing. It's an ugly word for horses that run their hearts out. As far as Onion and Secretariat, I'm sure you'll agree that Onion was the much better horse. Huh?? Secretariat is the greatest of all time in my opinion but I'm not even going to call that race that word. All of your points from 10:38 make sense to me. The Derby chews up and spits out lots of horses. It's a terrifying stampede for the faint of heart. No, he had no chance against Invasor and Bernardini, but if he had one day where he managed somehow to beat them, then hats off to a great run, and I still wouldn't call it that word even with no chance !!!!!

TerriV

Great post. That was a nightmare for us MTB fans. He still has a great demeanor and if there is nothing wrong with him he still could win a race. It's frustrating. His comeback has been terrible. Karma? But the horse has to pay for it along with the trainer, and owners. It certainly appears that MTB has only one style of running that works. I'd be surprised if he was anything less than a 1 1/8 and longer runner. Run allowance and then a minor stakes with the running style that works for him. Thrown to the wolves in Grade One for his comeback is correct like Slew said.

ceil

Thanks for the update. It's always good to hear that horses are doing well and being visited.

re: Retire Rachel? Why?

TerriV — Tue, 07 Sep 2010 21:26:14 GMT

Ooops. Accidentally hit send before I finished. End was suppose to be BUT NOT YET!!! We are so lucky Rachel and Zen are both still racing - in one breath you hear "why do they retire them so early" and in the next you hear "this horse (insert Name here) should be retired" Aren't we just full of contradictions!!

re: Retire Rachel? Why?

ceil — Tue, 07 Sep 2010 19:05:55 GMT

Giacomo had surgery for bone chips in a knee and an ankle after he ran in the Belmont. He had a long layoff after the surgery. I think he loved Churchill Downs much more than the tracks in California (speed-favoring dirt at that time). There was a great video of him at Adena Springs, which ran during the Triple Crown races last year, and again earlier this year. It was part of a series on former Derby winners (Smarty, Thunder Gulch, Monarchos, etc), visiting them at stud. Giacomo is really a glorious looking horse.

re: Retire Rachel? Why?

TerriV — Tue, 07 Sep 2010 18:25:23 GMT

While Quality Road ran a good race and I am happy to see him win, my heart just broke for Mine That Bird. I guess it was an experiment to see if they could change his running style but, my God, couldn't they do that in a less prominent race than the Woodward. He is a closer!! All his best races he ran as a closer. How do you think Rachel would do if she was held in the back til they made that final turn? Not too well, I'm thinking! And, I'm not too sure even Zenyatta could change her style and break and hold the lead wire to wire. Doesn't it just make sense to use their strengths instead of trying to make them into something else? That poor boy must be so confused. He trains beautifully, so I can't believe he's in any physical stress; I think he just doesn't know what he's suppose to do. He deserves better.

re: Retire Rachel? Why?

Zookeeper — Tue, 07 Sep 2010 17:33:18 GMT

Slew,

Now that you have put things in perspective (Alydar), I guess I better cool it. :)

P.S. I wasn't talking about your comment, but those of others who have used it to bash MTB who, last year, ran a heck of a TC season.

re: Retire Rachel? Why?

KautoStar — Tue, 07 Sep 2010 17:10:22 GMT

Just feel I have to point this out, it's much harder for a horse to get a trip if they are on the pace. When a horse isn't certain to last a distance, it's prudent to hold them up, therefore conserving their energy for the extra furlongs at the end. So if Rachel Alexandra was held up maybe fourth or so in a ten furlong race, and think there's a very strong chance she would win. Remember that with Zenyatta, she conserves energy with her running style so can finish a race more strongly. If she was ever ridden close to or on the pace (theoretically) she may not stay either.

re: Retire Rachel? Why?

Fran Loszynski — Tue, 07 Sep 2010 15:54:45 GMT

Thank you Zookeeper.

We're all lucky we can still watch Rachel A. and Zenyatta considering what happened in West Virginia and the beautiful thoroughbreds that died in the fire. My condolences to their owners and trainers and I feel so lucky I can go to the track tomorrow and see my favorites race. May the wind of Kentucky carry these racehorses' spirits.

re: Retire Rachel? Why?

Slew — Tue, 07 Sep 2010 14:38:44 GMT

Zookeeper: So sorry Runflatout scratched. Better for him, more butterflies for you.

Dr. D. You know I love you...but...BCC-"where he would face his old rival Lava Man as well as other top horses such as Bernardini and the eventual winner Invasor. Giacomo was never a contender in the race, but he closed well to finish in 4th." I think the Kentucky Derby chewed him up and spit him out, even though he ran in all 3 legs of the Triple Crown. I do believe he won only one race in his career after that, and was never a threat in any other race. He wasn't as much a "fluke" as he was simply used up by the Derby. Mine That Bird, on the other hand, ran in all 3 legs and finished 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. Not a fluke...but this year, I still don't believe he has recovered from the psychological impact of his injury. Would you be willing to pit him against horses like Invasor, Bernardini, and Lava Man? I think not. Keep in mind, a horse does not have to win to impress me....he just has to run well. Mine that Bird can no longer run well, and they keep throwing him to the wolves in grade 1 races. It's not fair to the horse.

Me...I'm still upset over the 1978 Triple Crown because my favorite was Alydar. Murdering a horse makes my blood boil, not the term "fluke".

Super Saver?? Perfect jockey, perfect ride...lots of luck. I'm still waiting for him to show up sometime...so far...not too much.

Kentucky Derby...a 20 horse rodeo that has prevented us from having another Triple Crown winner...keep it at 14. Right now, they just keep tossing in more horses who simply don't really belong there.

re: Retire Rachel? Why?

ZenFan — Tue, 07 Sep 2010 14:38:20 GMT

I am most disappointed in Zenyatta's connections for not bringing her to the Beldame. They know that they just have to let Rachel Alexandra knock herself out of contention for HOY and they do not even need to come for the Classic. They can coast on in to the title as there are no other legitimate contenders to the title while Zenyatta remains undefeated.

re: Retire Rachel? Why?

Zookeeper — Tue, 07 Sep 2010 14:05:20 GMT

Dr Drunkinbum,

Thank you for the heads up on that website. Holy cow! Was that a stretch battle or what? Unbelievable! The heart of these two to keep battling after setting these fractions! It boggles the mind. Saint Liam a fine example of a horse who may have lost the race but could not be called a loser by any stretch of the imagination. Both of them simply awesome!!!

re: Retire Rachel? Why?

RachelAlex — Tue, 07 Sep 2010 13:36:27 GMT

Jim C.: It's RachelAlex, not Afleet Alex, and thank you for the answer, even though I counted more than one word, LOL.

Great as Big Z is, I will always love Rachel--her 2009 year was amazing and she deserved the 2009 HOTY.

I only hope that her handlers will figure out the right thing to do with her. It pains me to see her career post Eclipse being mismanaged. She does not look happy out there on the track--and enough already with the whip, Calvin!

re: Retire Rachel? Why?

JerseyBoy — Tue, 07 Sep 2010 13:14:50 GMT

Jim C:

I keep reading your comments on Beyer Speed Figures. The only problem is that you seem to take the figures seriously. I see them as a form of entertainment.

Look at this:

Boys At Tosconova's best figure is 102. He then runs in 90 and wins a Grade 1.

Quality Road's best is 121. He runs in 106 and wins a Grade 1.

Discreetly Mine's best is 111. He then runs in 93 and wins a Grade 1.

If a horse can run up to 18 points below its best and win a Grade 1, what analytical purpose do these figures serve? I say they are nonsense.

re: Retire Rachel? Why?

Jim C. — Tue, 07 Sep 2010 07:39:03 GMT

Afleet Alex said: " To Jim C.: Really quick question that requires just an yes or no answer (if you can manage it). Did Rachel Alexandra win the 2009 HOTY award simply based on East Coast bias."

Answer: No.

Explanation: The East Coast enjoys the largest voting bloc, which accounts in part for the result. But Rachel had an awesome 3-year old filly campaign. No doubt about it. I think any objective, unbiased observer would agree that, Zenyatta deserved, at the very least, a half-share of the Horse of the Year Award. That is why I admire Steve Haskin for abstaining, and Rich Eng for splitting his vote, even thought the higher ups refused it.

On the other hand, were it not for the unjust result, we would not be experiencing the privilege of enjoying Zenyatta race this year. My wife and I attended Santa Anita in March for the Santa Margarita, Hollywood Park in June for the Vanity, and Del Mar in August for the Clement L. Hirsch. We have been able to see her really close up in the paddock. The atmosphere is always electric, and everyone gets goosebumps when they see her. It's just an amazing experience. Every time.

re: Retire Rachel? Why?

Dr Drunkinbum — Tue, 07 Sep 2010 05:29:53 GMT

Zookeeper

The 2004 Woodward is one of the most amazing races ever. Ghostzapper and Saint Liam duel with amazing fractions and final time. You can see it at chef-de-race.com along with many other great replays.

re: Retire Rachel? Why?

Zookeeper — Tue, 07 Sep 2010 03:41:39 GMT

Dr Drunkinbum,

Boris ans Vincent, maybe. But Peter would stick around. I think he would enjoy a good lashing. :)

re: Retire Rachel? Why?

Zookeeper — Tue, 07 Sep 2010 02:32:43 GMT

RachelAlex,

Please!!!

re: Retire Rachel? Why?

Dr Drunkinbum — Tue, 07 Sep 2010 02:27:26 GMT

Zookeeper

Yeah, I know what happens when you're blood is boiling. Even Peter Lorre, Boris Karloff, and Vincent Price tremble with fear and hide in the basement. Just kidding !!!!!!!!!!!!! You're a sweetheart.

re: Retire Rachel? Why?

Zookeeper — Tue, 07 Sep 2010 02:08:46 GMT

Mr. Haskin,

The more I find out, the less I get it... They were right: ignorance IS bliss! :)

So, if a good horse beats an average horse by a neck, in fast time, on a slow track... Beyers says the average horse couldn't have improved that much so the good horse gets a lower (than expected) speed figure? Especially since the horse who ran 3rd is only half a lenght back???

Never mind, I'll revert back to ignorance! LOL!

re: Retire Rachel? Why?

Steve Haskin — Tue, 07 Sep 2010 01:01:19 GMT

No, Zookeeper, you didnt misunderstand. It is one of the things that is taken under consideration. If you defeat a horse let's say by a half-length who has run low Beyers, chances are he didnt improve that dramatically to get a high Beyer, so that is taken under consideration when giving out the number. Often the margin between 2nd and 3rd is a good indicator whether it was a legitimately fast race.