Big Red on the Big Screen

re: Big Red on the Big Screen

eviekay2121 — Wed, 03 Nov 2010 04:00:39 GMT

Get over yourselves! If you are in racing-- any part of it--, you should be begging for the worldwide audience Disney provides. And if they reach the world's heart like they know how to do, what part of you has the audacity to be critical? Beggars aren't choosers. And in this case, the beggars are those in Thoroughbred racing, begging for a breakthrough in a sadly flaggling sport. The best thing you can do-- and the first thing you should do-- is wholeheartedly support Disney bringing an audience to your feet for the next decade. This positive result goes so deep that it dissolves any trivial complaint one can conjure up. Please be horse people that see the larger world than the tiny one they're in.

re: Big Red on the Big Screen

j.c. martin — Thu, 21 Oct 2010 15:42:42 GMT

Has anyone commented on the Tucson, Arizona, resident sister, Margaret Carmichael being written out of the script entirely?

re: Big Red on the Big Screen

Boat Doc — Mon, 18 Oct 2010 06:25:00 GMT

As a sports fan I'm old enough to remember Secretariat winning the Triple Crown, but most of what I know about Big Red comes from the documentary ESPN put together when Secretariat was placed on the list of 100 Greatest Athletes at #34, ahead of Mickey Mantle (and 65 other greats.)

All of the Triple Crown races were amazing to watch from the come-from-last Kentucky Derby to the last-to-first charge in a furlong of the Preakness, but watching the footage of the Belmont is transcendent, and the film is almost pedestrian compared to the actual footage. Chic Anderson’s call is recreated poorly, only making effective use of the “Secretariat is moving like a TREMENDOUS machine!” Watching the actual race with Chic’s actual call gives a much better feeling for what we are watching – Secretariat, already vastly favored in the race, ran a race that amazed viewers to tears, all but taking flight into our collective sport consciousness. Perhaps the filmmakers felt obliged to edit Anderson’s call to reflect the actual 31-length margin of victory, but in the actual call you can hear his disbelief as he estimates the margin at 25 lengths. The real Secretariat was greater than our amazement.

The film gives us only a shadow of the actual greatness of Big Red.

re: Big Red on the Big Screen

Sallie — Sun, 17 Oct 2010 13:23:25 GMT

Most telling is that despite all the flaws in the film, the audiences applaud at the end. The power of the animal and his stunning Belmont run remain stirring to this day. I was 12 when these races took place, and in my 7th grade yearbook a friend wrote, "Too bad about Sham!" I've never known how to pick a winner! ^_^

re: Big Red on the Big Screen

Dave S. — Fri, 15 Oct 2010 00:52:27 GMT

There's Really No Doubt Who The Movie Was Made For, And Yes It's A 100% Feel Good Movie (IE..Flicka Comes To Mind Amoung Others). Disney Made A Movie For The Public And They Made It Their Way. Steve Your Review Was Right On (No Doubt About That) And Again Your Correct About Being To Close To The "REAL" Horse. Disney However Isn't To Concerned About Real Facts, Just Feel Good Stories And Considering The Shape Of The Economy Right Now A "Feel Good Story" May Be What We Need. (By The Way Your 100% Correct Again Gospel Music For Horse Racing Is Way Over The Top).

Regards....

re: Big Red on the Big Screen

Prove Out — Tue, 12 Oct 2010 20:22:15 GMT

"Oh Happy Day" was a baffling choice. It was an incredibly disappointing climax to anyone who was anticipating the most inspirational of all moments in the history of sport recreated with all the glitz and glam of hollywood.

I found myself thinking "am I so jaded that I couldn't be moved by a truly inspirational scene? Did everyone else see it differently?"

I'm glad to see I wasn't the only one.

re: Big Red on the Big Screen

HorseLover1923 — Mon, 11 Oct 2010 05:48:51 GMT

When exactly do we get to see a film about Man O' War? And why do people always seem to forget him?

re: Big Red on the Big Screen

smitty — Sat, 09 Oct 2010 14:13:04 GMT

Sorry Laura, I meant Hillenbrand...

re: Big Red on the Big Screen

Smitty — Sat, 09 Oct 2010 11:23:12 GMT

You're too gracious Steve. Seabiscuit took Hollywood liberties too - but they did their homework (or rather Hildebrandt did) and Gary Ross was a true storyteller in both script and cinematography.

This movie was a missed opportunity to tell a true story of jaw dropping superlatives - opting instead for done-to-death life lessons, embarassing stereotypes and hackneyed cliches.

(Don't even get me started on the music)

re: Big Red on the Big Screen

Ms WTF — Sat, 09 Oct 2010 11:11:15 GMT

I was born the year "Big Red" won the Triple Crown but oh, how I wish I could have seen him run. I will be there to see his movie though. Doesn't matter if it's made by Disney or Oliver Stone, no one could do his greatness the justice it deserves.

The public love horse racing movies. Even though we know who wins the race we all still hang off the edges of our seats. Having seen Seabiscuit and Pharlap which both took poetic licence with the truth but have remained popular since being released. Does it really matter whether they are entirely factual or not?

This is entertainment and great publicity for the sport, especially with the Breeders Cup and Zenyattas record breaking attempt coming up.

If Secretariat puts bums on seats both at the movie theater and the track then it's good for Hollywood, and good for racing.

re: Big Red on the Big Screen

VT — Sat, 09 Oct 2010 01:06:13 GMT

Wasn't the coin toss scenario slightly different in real life as well? I saw the midnight showing of the movie last night, and always remembered the coin toss being for Secretariat and his full sister, The Bride, not between the two different mare's Bold Ruler foals.

re: Big Red on the Big Screen

GreyK — Fri, 08 Oct 2010 16:35:10 GMT

To quote Mr. Haskin: It has brought back into public consciousness a legendary athlete that transcended his sport and sports in general, weaving himself into the fabric of American culture. And it tells the story of one woman’s dogged determination in a world she was born into, but had long since left behind.

*************** best review I've read yet. Forgive the deficiencies and be thrilled non-racing fans will love this movie.

re: Big Red on the Big Screen

Patty — Fri, 08 Oct 2010 15:23:02 GMT

I re-read Bill Nack's book every few years and I went to the movie with mixed emotions. We went to the preview showing last weekend. I was surprised and pleased that the theatre was packed and people clapped after each Triple Crown race. I was a bit horrified at some of the liberties taken. Can anyone imagine Penny Tweedy picking up a sponge and actually bathing Secretariat? I will buy the DVD when it comes out--and hope they include documentary pieces about the real Secretariat. I remember following Secretariat on TV and in the newspapers as a teenager. The day of the Belmont Stakes I had to work (I had just started my first job). I worked in a department store. That day I asked to combine my breaks near the end of the day. I hurried through the store and bolted up the escalator to the major appliance/TV department. At the top of the escalator were a crowd of people watching the TV and Secretariat was alone on the screen. I was confused and asked if he was warming up. Someone said, "No, this is the race". I asked where were the other horses? Then the camera panned back to show the others. The crowd of people standing there in Gately's department store cheered the end of the race. It is one of my fondest memories.

re: Big Red on the Big Screen

Alfuso — Tue, 28 Sep 2010 03:09:25 GMT

I think they should have used that great classic " Wipe Out" for the Belmont stretch. Now that piece speaks!

I'll go see the movie because Secretariat was A Chosen. And I watched those three races on live TV.

Plus I remember Sham's great heart.

re: Big Red on the Big Screen

needler in Virginia — Sun, 26 Sep 2010 01:20:49 GMT

Amen, and yu are SO right on the last thought, txhorsefan. Our oldest Morgan once ran through a four board oak fence for no discernible reason, while the other Morgan and the Sicilian donkey stood there and watched. NO problem with them, at all. Deke just had a brain fart and shattered the fence, as well as poking several good sized holes in his chest. Blood everywhere and him standing there with a "WHUT???" look on his face. The younger Morgan figured out how to slice off a quarter of his hoof from the cornet down to the ground and I saw the blood spurting from 50 yards away...now THAT was a day I don't wanna repeat EVER! Hoof pasted, superglued, duct taped and booted back together ........ then ages waiting for it to come back in crumbly and soft. Never held a shoe solidly again, but he wore bar shoes with loads of epoxy. Read the chapter in Jim Squires' Monarchos book about horses, their physics, their propensity for trying to commit suicide and you get a good idea of how fragile they really are. Not all that encouraging, is it??? Sometimes I feel like we're trying to save them from themselves; sometimes I think we're trying to save them from US..........

Cheers and safe trips to ALL.

re: Big Red on the Big Screen

txhorsefan — Sat, 25 Sep 2010 23:50:06 GMT

That's really an interesting, thought provoking concept, Needler. Because I'm well aware that it's almost like every horse is born with a death wish and they are expert at finding ways to mangle themselves without our help, it makes me wonder if other species who share a similar kind of build - large body on tiny legs have the same regularity of breaking down. The creatures I'm thinking of would be the gazelles and antelopes who have such tiny legs and hooves in relation to their body size, but it's not something I've ever pondered before. I agree, we need to work to do all we can to make racing safer for the horses and the riders and to keep the horses from hurting themselves. Well, good luck with that last one.

re: Big Red on the Big Screen

needler in Virginia — Sat, 25 Sep 2010 19:52:59 GMT

Thanks, Sherpa. It's really rotten, it stinks, and I wish the basics could be changed, but a closed gene pool is what it is, and the ultimate result will always be the same. Talk about losing on an instant replay! Just as a starting point we could examine the number of foals born in 1970 (which really isn't THAT long ago), the number of starters and the percentages of those that raced longer than one or two years; then compare those numbers to those of 2008.......the differences might be enlightening. The horses did seem stronger then, but maybe they weren't.....maybe it's our perception through time OR we just got to see the tougher ones who could stay the course. The only options we have right now are to try to make everything better and safer. That's about it. BOY have I become a doom and gloomer. APOLOGIES to all.

Cheers and safe trips.

re: Big Red on the Big Screen

sherpa — Sat, 25 Sep 2010 17:00:52 GMT

great post at 11:11 AM, needler.

re: Big Red on the Big Screen

needler in Virginia — Sat, 25 Sep 2010 15:11:42 GMT

Tracey, sad to say horses have been breaking down ever since horses became horses. Most of the breakdowns in racing, all the way back to the Godolphin Barb, et al, happened, the horse was destroyed and then dragged off the track. The public awareness of breakdowns came about mostly because of Ruffian, I THINK. Someone please correct my timeline here. TV has been the prime mover in letting the public see the last strides and then the fall. Breakdowns are NOT going to stop happening; horses break down in the pasture chasing other horses, they take bad steps going to the barn, they step on THEMSELVES and tear hooves half off. This happens; it's just TV that puts it in your face. That said, we should try to make racing safer. I'll say that again.......WE SHOULD TRY TO MAKE RACING SAFER. But the breakdowns will still be with us. It's the physics of a 1,000 pound horse walking around on matchsticks. We could always introduce draft horses into the gene pool, but I'd bet the result would NOT be another Secretariat. And regarding the gene pool being "watered down", actually, the gene pool has had no water added in years and what we are seeing is the result of several hundred years of what amounts to inbreeding. All these horses are, supposedly, the offspring of three foundation stallions.....THREE. Taking into account all the outside mares that helped create this breed, add in when the stud books were closed, all the years and the foals, and you are narrowing to the tip of a pretty big pyramid. We're gonna see more genetic problems rather than less. Maybe we should "water down" the gene pool a bit, but the handicappers would all implode at that possibility...

Nah, we've got what we've got; it's our responsibility to make horse AND rider safe, tracks safer, training methods safer, DO AWAY WITH TWO YEAR OLDS IN TRAINING SALES, drop drugs out of the mix altogether, and then maybe........... At the end of the day, though, there will still be horses that break down. I WISH it were otherwise, but I've spent too many years looking at genetics. You can't close a gene pool and expect any other result.

Cheers and safe trips.

re: Big Red on the Big Screen

Tetrach — Sat, 25 Sep 2010 13:22:26 GMT

In re other films mentioned above: "Champions" about Aldaniti and the eponymous "Phar Lap" are genuinely good, maybe the two best, racing movies.

re: Big Red on the Big Screen

Tetrarch — Sat, 25 Sep 2010 13:19:55 GMT

I watched Big Red in 1973. I wept when he died. I still weep watching the Belmont. I'll weep watching this probably somewhat silly movie, because it will remind me of the perfection of Secretariat and of what he meant to so many.

Note: "O Happy Day"? Umm-- didn't anyone at Disney listen to the second line of the lyric? "When Jesus walked"? When Red ran, maybe. What an idiot choice. Silence would better convey the moment.

re: Big Red on the Big Screen

Tracey — Sat, 25 Sep 2010 04:01:18 GMT

I will go see this movie despite the flaws, however I find making Sham a villian to be despicable. Sham was magnificent and in any other year his brilliance would have stood alone. My love of Secretariat will drive me to see it, even though in the trailers I can see the horses playing him are at a disadvantage, they don't come close. I don't really want the movie to promote horse racing interest however. Back in Secretariat's day the horses were made of hardier stock than today, where bloodlines are so watered down there are horses being bred with weak bones, they are still pushed too hard as youngsters and the breeders have to know it. This is why Eight Belles broke down. I don't watch racing anymore because of this and the abuse that goes on. However back when I was young Secretariat and Ruffian were something special to me and always will be. Secretariat's greatness will always speak for itself and I have the documentary too. A movie, even if it is not entirely accurate will bring a new generation to learn about and love this amazing horse, who should never be forgotten.

re: Big Red on the Big Screen

Kate — Fri, 24 Sep 2010 04:54:42 GMT

I would like to point out, just because some of us weren't around to see Secretariat race (shoot, I was only two by the time he died) doesn't mean we can't appreciate how amazing he was. It doesn't mean we think of Sham in a negative light either - I think it's pretty clear that had Secretariat not been around, Sham would have won at least the Derby and probably the Triple Crown. He was a great horse in his own right, he just suffered the same fate as Alydar - he was up against a horse who, at least on race day, was a bit better. Seems like some of the "old timers" have an attitude of "you can't possibly appreciate how great he was if you didn't see him in person or live on TV." (oh really? And how did you feel about Eclipse?)

I'm going to go see it opening weekend, and I'm taking my twelve-year-old sister (doing my best to indoctrinate her in the ways of the racetrack - she already got to see Zenyatta and Super Saver in person when we went to Oaklawn in April so I think I've hooked her). I'm sure she'll love the movie, just like I'm equally sure I'll be sitting there flinching and biting my lip every time I see something I know is incorrect. But, need I remind you of the tragedy involving Eight Belles that garnered so much attention? The sport needs any positive publicity it can get - and if that is a movie made by Disney dramatizing one of our biggest stars, well, maybe it's not ideal, but it's still positive publicity.

re: Big Red on the Big Screen

Kat- Big Red's Biggest Fan — Thu, 23 Sep 2010 22:20:24 GMT

My beef about the Black Stallion is Why change a perfect and classic story?

They recast Alec ....as a young kid? instead of the boy on the threshold of manhood and his coming of age?

Why take away all the Pathos of The Race? with the injured stallion running and Alec trying to stop him.... and the drama at the end of the race with Alec's only concern being the stallion's well being above and beyond the outcome of the race.... and the hushed crowds waiting to see if the horse was ok and then the triumphant procession and with the grand reunion of Both his parents being there (his father was Not killed on board the ship when it sank- he was not there at all) and then horse expert (reminding me of Hatton upon first seeing Secretariat) remarking that no greater horse existed....

They so trivialized the story! with that child as the protagonist .... and wearing that silly helmet instead of a proper jockey's cap ..... and showing no concern about his horse being hurt...

What was beautiful about the movie was the cinematography and the island scenes and the spectacular horse they found to portray The Black...

but that part was all they did well.... They didn't lack excellent material, they chose to ignore it and tell their own version which was not an improvement at all .... does that make any kind of sense?? Should one accept such without protest?

The call of the Match Race in the book is of the same caliber of stirring drama as Chick Anderson's call of the Belmont! I get goosebumps over both.

The Black! is coming on like a house on fire!

Secretariat! He is moving like a tremendous machine!

Bless them all.

and I get tears in my eyes when Seattle Slew's owner tells the story of meeting Walter Farley (author of the Black Stallion) and is told by Mr Farley that all his life he has been looking for the Black Stallion and that Seattle Slew is his Black Stallion... so does he... and his voice quivers in telling story ...

upon seeing Secretariat win the TC in 1973- he was MY black stallion :-)

re: Big Red on the Big Screen

needler in Virginia — Thu, 23 Sep 2010 16:52:45 GMT

Thanks, Travis. You said it far better than I could have. It all comes down to why on Earth make this most fascinating and gripping of stories into something trivial, demeaning and untrue?? Isn't it good enough as it stands there?? Sham and his connections bad guys? NEVER! AND NOTHING DISNEY CAN PUT ON FILM WILL MAKE ME BELIEVE OTHERWISE. Since "poor" has become Sham's first name (as in "Poor Sham"), clearly, those who were around as this story played out knew that Sham was simply born in the wrong year, and not one of those observers ever called him "Nasty Sham" or "Evil Sham".

'Nuff said on this; those who don't want the real story will LOVE the movie as they LOVED "Dreamer" (urck). Those who would rather see the real deal will go to the movie, gripe, and then go home to watch their dvd's of The Big Red One and the class of 1970.

My fingers are now officially in overload, so I won't type anymore. I'd bet there is more than one of you who is thrilled at that announcement!! Please alert the media...........

Cheers and safe trips.