Hats Off to Larry

re: Hats Off to Larry

Wanda — Mon, 25 Aug 2008 18:11:03 GMT

Thanks for the comeback Whatamidoing.Yup I vagely remember packing up and heading down the road. But I got to tell you never on the east coast of either country.That was one rough race wasn't it? Caught it on Woodbine Live.Thanks again for the imfo and insights. I live it thru all the comments you all are so kind to provide me with.Take care and drive safe.

re: Hats Off to Larry

Wanda — Mon, 25 Aug 2008 18:09:55 GMT

re: Hats Off to Larry

Whatamidoing — Mon, 25 Aug 2008 17:54:18 GMT

Wanda have had a few decent ones myself, what a rush and source of pride. I bet Dallas would tell you right about now that his colt got roughed up pretty good. Will give a shout out, a lot are pulling up stakes and moving on to Turfway, Belmont wherever, I'm sure you know the routine.

re: Hats Off to Larry

katsan — Sun, 24 Aug 2008 23:32:33 GMT

Yes I know that about Mike Matz, but face it, being an older person myself of course I'm talking about the older trainers as in age. There are many good young trainers, I don't know near as much about Motion and really only know more about Mike because of Barbaro and how well he handled the public side of that. That is what I am trying to talk about as it relates to Larry and how he handled the situation he was in after being viciously attacked. Most of the others have dealt with similar situations. I'm not even referring to the locale the trainer is from. I guess more than anything is the level of public recognition the trainers that I named have with the general public or casual fan, not just the horse racing industry.

re: Hats Off to Larry

Wanda — Sun, 24 Aug 2008 22:16:14 GMT

Whatamidoing:I'm with you totally on that one. I thought it, but got busy and didn't log on.I had a 3 year old filly long ago and ran her against the boys. She kicked butt and was 2/5 off the track record with the rider never cocking the stick.I guess what everyones saying is that given the chance we all would have taken the shot if we trained Eight Belles.

Hey say hi to my friend Atthebarn2. The home boys got to keep in touch.

re: Hats Off to Larry

Bryce Be Quick — Sun, 24 Aug 2008 14:31:29 GMT

katsab-- actually, Matz was still show jumping when Motion broke into the game. As I recall, Matz opened for business with a 3-horse stable in just 1998, whereas Motion dates to at least the mid-80's, having worked with Jonathan Sheppard before heading out on his own circa-1991.

Agree with you completely re: Helen Pitts-- wonderful horsewoman who like Motion, seemingly comes by it via the family genes, growing up Northern Baltimore County (Monkton) and the hunt country. Sure laid a great foundation for Curlin. Wish he was still with her-- such is the nature of the game and what happens at times when a horse changes ownership hands.

re: Hats Off to Larry

Whatamidoing — Sun, 24 Aug 2008 03:14:04 GMT

I read Dreamers Mom’s comment and was trying to assimilate it. I can’t. As a trainer I’m just boggled that someone who says they are a race horse trainer says she wouldn’t run a horse that fits in a big race. If I had a Winning Colors in my barn and told the owner I didn’t want to ‘stress her out’ by running her in the Derby or even the Oaks (which is not quite as crazy as Derby day, but close to), that filly would be out of my barn so fast I wouldn’t know what happened and shoot, I’d take her away from me too, and go get a job at something guaranteed not to be stressful or risky. That’s what horse racing is, that is the whole premise it is built on taking a risk for reward. I do not know one single trainer who would not run a horse, mare, colt or filly in a race that they SHOULD be in. If the animal is healthy, sound, happy, fits the conditions and has the turn of foot to run in the race it’s a disservice to the horse and everyone involved NOT to run the horse. Yes there’s a chance of injury, that chance always exists. But I could try to avoid the dangers of being around the race horses by staying in bed with my head covered up and a plane could crash into the house and kill me. I’m not saying run an animal where they are way out of their league, you have more trainers pressured into that than you’d ever have pressured into keeping a qualified animal out of a race.

re: Hats Off to Larry

Bradgm — Sat, 23 Aug 2008 15:44:25 GMT

Dreamers Mom,

I'm not knocking the way you do things. I just know all my trainer friends want that horse they can run in the BIG races. Of course it's like every field, if we didn't have the horses running at the smaller tracks and in the lower level races it would be so elitist no one would have much interest. My POINT is the people that targeted Larry would be very unlikely to target people who aren't in the limelight. As for me, the big races would be my DREAM. Your handle is kind of a misnomer because Dreamer was the filly who ran in the Classic, fought bias etc. With a handle like that I figured you'd be shooting for the stars. Of course like I said in my previous post one has to have the Filly/colt that fits.

re: Hats Off to Larry

Dreamer's Mom — Sat, 23 Aug 2008 00:43:47 GMT

I believe I said "maybe" I would run against the boys in a Friday night allowance race. To date, I have not. The difference in that race and the Derby is all the stress involved BEFORE the race. Barn personnel may think it's business as usual, but it isn't and the horses pick up on that pretty quickly. I just won't add more stress than necessary.

re: Hats Off to Larry

katsan2 — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 22:39:01 GMT

Bryce,

Of course. I'm sure you noticed they are more the older trainers and I even excluded a few of those.

Graham is still one of the younger crowd, and I left those off as well as some of the wonderful female trainers like Carla Gaines, Helen Pitts and Linda Rice. Steve would send me poison pen letters (emails) if I mentioned all of them. Just a follow thru on Jim, the more iconic trainers, Derby winners, giant killer, Cigar more those who are spokespersons and what they would or wouldn't say to embarrass the industry.

re: Hats Off to Larry

Bryce Be Quick — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 15:47:41 GMT

katsan--

realize your list not meant to be all-inclusive by any means, but since you have mention Matz, one of Larry's fellow Fair Hill-based trainers, let me quickly add a second-- H. Graham Motion and his team at Herringswell Stable-- you won't find anything even remotely performance-enhancing in Motion's medicine cabinet-- he's a hay, oats and water guy bar none.

He is a superlative horsemen with the game in his genes-- his Dad with a distinguished career as a blood stock agent and a longtime Tattersalls rep, his Mom rode in England and an assistant trainer on both sides of the Atlantic, before opening her tack shop down in Middleburg, VA. The wonderful job Herringswell does helping to keep Better Talk Now sound and on the track a testimony to their no-nonsense "horse first" training approach.

re: Hats Off to Larry

katsan — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 01:12:44 GMT

Jim, I agree, Larry is sure one of the good guys in our industry. He said he idolized Lukas and sought his advice about running Eight Belles as well as asking LeRoy Jolley for his advice the two who won the Derby with Fillies. Zito, refuses to get into the fray with Dutrow, yet in his own brand of humor puts him in his place.

Jerkens, Mott, Matz, Tagg join with the others as stalwarts of the industry. Each have their own unique qualities, way of speaking but my perception is that none of these gentlemen would knowingly do anything to harm racing and Larry Jones ranks right there with them.

re: Hats Off to Larry

Jim — Thu, 21 Aug 2008 16:50:33 GMT

Why do I like Larry so much? I didn't like his whining about Street Sense. Being a huge A.P. Indy fan I was rooting for Music Note. By how about the little Proud Spell!!! She's kind of what Larry Jones is all about -- just like Hard Spun who won over my heart in 07.

I certainly wanted to write Larry after the Eight Belles tragedy. What a supercharged, hypocritical society!!! Larry's another breath of fresh air that the industry needed. He's a total outcross to some of our other great characters like Zito and Lucas.

I lived through "fires" in my career like Larry was subjected to after the Derby. Me and tens of thousands of others were there with you Larry.

re: Hats Off to Larry

Racefan66 — Thu, 21 Aug 2008 02:28:40 GMT

Steve: Outstanding writing as always and thanks for sending out such public support of Larry, he deserves this pat on the back and an attaboy from the industry after enduring such a tough year with dignity and grace.

Larry: I am happy that your fortunes are turning for the better. No one should have to lose a horse and suffer the indignities that you did at the hands of PETA. I wish that someone would sue the snot out of them and hold them accountable for the damage their actions caused!

re: Hats Off to Larry

Bryce Be Quick — Wed, 20 Aug 2008 23:42:02 GMT

Steve and All-

Larry Jones is in the newly built Rick Porter barn-- Parlo VI at Fair Hill, as follows:

Larry Jones

Fair Hill Training Center

464 Training Center Drive

Parlo VI

Elkton, MD 21921

re: Hats Off to Larry

Bradgm — Wed, 20 Aug 2008 19:08:47 GMT

Dreamer's Mom, good that you'll stick to your guns, whatever works for you. Of course I'm often reminded by the fairer sex that girls mature faster than boys (some of us never grow up). Seems like the same holds true in the equines. How many times have the 2 year olds beaten the boys times in comparable races (like BC Uuv and Juv Fillies). Winning Colors was bigger and more put together than the boys. I say they catch up but think about females vs males as youngsters how many boys are actually scared of girls until about age 7, a lot more than will admit. I've asked trainers that I know and most said they would do it. We know some of the big trainers back East too, but maybe that's a subject Steve could address with some of them. That would be an interesting first hand account, straight from the horses (trainers) mouth. As for the IF, well as my friend Jordy said IF I Win the lottery I'll buy a super filly run her in the Derby IF she fits and I know just the trainer I'd give her to. And Clay, you think if a colt breaks down in the Derby and has to be put down on the track there won't be a similar outcry? That's the way it works, the higher the profile the bigger the involvement. Dreamers Mom will run her filly against the boys in a Fri nite allowance race, why? If the filly breaks down she still does, only difference is the radicals don't have an audience so they won't be around.

re: Hats Off to Larry

Lonnie — Wed, 20 Aug 2008 16:50:05 GMT

Congratulations, Larry & Cindy,

Proud Spell raced a terric race on Saturday and everyone was pulling for her.

Eight Belles was watching over her and running with her.

Bless all of you.

re: Hats Off to Larry

Bryce Be Quick — Wed, 20 Aug 2008 14:43:09 GMT

Larry has been a most-welcomed addition to the scene at Fair Hill, MD, where he now has his barn and operation based.

What a "Filly Specialist" you are--just what do you whisper in their ear to make 'em think it was THEIR idea to do whatever needs doing?

Need more like you in the game, My Friend.

re: Hats Off to Larry

Clay — Wed, 20 Aug 2008 13:30:45 GMT

Bighorsefan & Bradgm-

Thanks for giving me a little more confidence. Horse trainers are a tough group and I didn't keep this in mind. Someone does need to step to the forefront next year, enter a filly, and put this incident to bed. But when he or she does the media and activists will respond with "remember what happened to the last filly that ran". A lot of controversy here. If that filly happens to break down its going to be a circus. It will make the EB tragedy seem like a walk in the park. I guess we will see which trainer has the most mettle in deciding to run a filly for the roses.

re: Hats Off to Larry

Secretariat's Secretary — Wed, 20 Aug 2008 01:55:56 GMT

Steve you are awesome!

Larry, everyone involved in our industry knows what a great horseman you are. In the end, all the ignorance will fade away, and everybody will continue to remember and respect you for what you are. A class act ethical man!

re: Hats Off to Larry

The Colonel — Wed, 20 Aug 2008 01:28:31 GMT

I feel terrible for wanting Music Note to win the Alabama as I'm generally a big fan of A.P. Indy but kudos to Proud Spell for helping to shut up all the detractors! The one thing more awful than having a horse never return to the barn is having people accuse you of running that horse to his/her death, especially when these people don't know what they're talking about.

It's a shame that so many people are loathe to care about the next two years of the Breeder's Cup because of the decision for Santa Anita and its synth track to host it. I'm not fond of it, too, especially with the reception for the California contenders for the Triple Crown, but I always find myself defending it. Weird.

I hope Proud Spell and Music Note keep running the rest of the year before we decide who wins the championship. I feel it's too early to have it all set in stone.

re: Hats Off to Larry

Dreamer's Mom — Tue, 19 Aug 2008 21:09:28 GMT

All I meant about not running Eight Belles in the Derby is that I, as a trainer, would not have done it. Maybe some Friday night allowance race against the boys, but I just don't like to run my girls against the boys. No harm, no foul, just the way I train. I'd rather walk across the street and take the money and I think Eight Belles and Proud Spell could have gone one and two in the Oaks. I have no doubt Eight Belles had tons of talent, it's just not how I train.

re: Hats Off to Larry

Bradgm — Tue, 19 Aug 2008 20:56:13 GMT

Clay, 5 trainers names popped into my head before I finished reading your sentence and about the same number of owners as to who would run a filly that fits. I know for a fact that Larry isn’t the first to be attacked and won’t be the last. Maybe not to the same extreme or maybe the others aren’t as gentle in spirit as Larry and Cindy seem to be. Not saying the others are callous but maybe a few more bad experiences and everyone handles things differently, including the people who write about the incidents. You know it’s 'In for a penny, in for a pound' and run horses is what they do. A robust, sound filly, why not? I’ll take a Genuine Risk, Winning Colors any day.

Wanda, “Horse of A Different Color” absolutely, also love his articles in the NY Times. His BB before the Belmont, I think you’ll like it. The other one, can’t remember. My house has a library in it, but it’s starting to look like a Library with bedrooms and a kitchen and I’m trying to cut back my book buying.

re: Hats Off to Larry

BIGHORSEFAN — Tue, 19 Aug 2008 19:22:25 GMT

Clay,

I think you underestimate how brave people in horse racing are and how much they believe in the horses they run. The racing industry is like all of those with the pioneer spirit, you get hurt, beat down get back up etc. If they don't run a deserving filly then they may as well stop running any of them because that will give the radicals the impetus they need to stop it all, racing would be giving up and the radicals will have won. The game is based on taking a chance with a superb animal. If a filly comes along like a Winning Colors my bet is she'll be run and like Dan Fogelberg's song says

"And it's run for the roses

As fast as you can

Your fate is delivered

Your moment's at hand

It's the chance of a lifetime

In a lifetime of chance"

Cgriff,

Someone in a comment on another blog wrote that there is a huge difference between Animal Welfare and Animal Rights. You want to read a great article on Animal Welfare by racetrackers, read the NYRA story on the 'ponys' on the track, including Funny Cide.

re: Hats Off to Larry

Cgriff — Tue, 19 Aug 2008 18:19:52 GMT

Merrywriter-

Thanks for bringing my suspicions to life in your blog entry. I remembered the PETA incident with the mink farm, but couldn't recall clearly the details to the point that I felt comfortable voicing my suspicions regarding what happened to Jones' horses and the frame up on the positive.

As you can see - I'm no fan of PETA. There is a difference between those who fight rationally for positive change and those who - desperate for attention or lacking fulfillment in their lives - lock on to some sort of cause and agitate without purpose.

ASPCA is an effective organization for positive change. PETA is an agitant - one that is many times made ridiculous by its own warped agenda and terroristic tactics.

I certainly wouldn't put it past them to hurt and endanger animals to "save" them.