Why Curlin Will Run in the Classic

re: Why Curlin Will Run in the Classic

katsan — Wed, 17 Sep 2008 23:57:38 GMT

Brad, thank you I appeciate your kind thoughts. We did get a bit of good news today, finally. The brother in law may survive his illness, keeping our fingers crossed. Lost two of the girls in our family to different things.I think their children will be okay, we all love them and they know that, one still has his Dad. They are resillient back in a routine and seem okay.

Karen Thanks for your words, they mean a lot. I don't know anyone on here personally but feel like I certainly do. We all have one thing in common, we love our horses.

re: Why Curlin Will Run in the Classic

Karen2 — Wed, 17 Sep 2008 16:40:52 GMT

Katsan: I don't know Brad and if he is a peace maker than bless his heart. I don't have issues with Brad. It was him who addressed me and my post. I would say we all get along on these boards. We may not always agree, but for the most part opinions are respected and in a lot of cases, very eye opening and create an open minded atmosphere where we can all get something out of all posts. Yes, even Draynays...I am sorry for your tragedies. It is important that we put our lives into perspective and be thankful for the many blessings we have..including the ability to share on this blog.

re: Why Curlin Will Run in the Classic

Bradgm — Wed, 17 Sep 2008 00:51:41 GMT

Kat, I read on Jason's blog. Can tell you are upset so happy you consider us your friends. Whatever it is and I can tell it's very bad, just know the buddies you've made on here are thinking of your and praying for you.

re: Why Curlin Will Run in the Classic

katsan — Tue, 16 Sep 2008 20:36:15 GMT

Karen, I've always found Brad to be very kind and honest. He doesn't seem to like people attacking others or being condescending and yes he always seems to want people to get along. I was sorry to hear about your adoptee. I had a couple of tragedies myself in the last week or so, unimaginable to most, life changing for me. Made me realize and be thankful for the kind, gentle peacemakers like Brad and how those who aren't might want to reconsider how blessed they are.

re: Why Curlin Will Run in the Classic

Wanda — Mon, 15 Sep 2008 14:36:05 GMT

Karen2: Thanks for the kind words. I'm from the old school, racetrack as well as being raised that way. I found these blogs very interesting and really injoy talking to people as well as the one on one with the board monitors. Sometimes we get to caught in our covictions but on the whole everyone is very pasionate about horseracing. That's a good thing!

re: Why Curlin Will Run in the Classic

Karen2 — Mon, 15 Sep 2008 00:15:37 GMT

Bradgm: My posts have not been mean in the past. Perhaps when someone doesn't see things your way, you consider them unkind? When did I condemn someone for writing their opinions? Please do not say that I have been a defender of Draynay and his insults. What I have defended about Draynay is his right to have an opinion and I have admired his dedication to BB. I don't have the same posting style as Draynay and in fact we have locked horns a time or two but I have said in the past that you take it for what it is and don't get worked up about it. You seem to get worked up over Draynays posts. Furthermore, you stating that "drive by" posters having "demeaning" opinions is not a good representation of yourself and the peace you are trying to create and you lose credibility when you say things like that. It makes others feel that you think your opinion is the only one that matters. I guess according to your definition of a "drive by" poster, in this case, mine would not qualify as I posted on the 7th and there were still many others still posting. You state you try not to make people feel like their opinions are not valid, but you attacked my post even though I never addressed you specifically. I agree there is a certain board protocol and I try to be decent. Sometimes I can be passionate about my opinion but I am also very open minded. I am not some Johnny come lately. I have been posting for some time now and enjoy it. I get so much insight and information from everyone on this board. I have stated numerous times that it is awesome to come to a place where there are horse crazy nuts like myself who truly love the industry. Draynay is not a bad guy. He just expresses himself differently than most.Once you get past the "foregone conclusion" of his posts, you may even get a laugh or two out of it. Lighten up Bradgm.... we all come here for the same reason so we all have something in common. Thank you for your words about my adoptee. I appreciate it. It's been a rough weekend.

Wanda: I don't think you should worry about saying or doing something wrong. I have read your posts, you seem very knowledgeable and seem to respect others opinions. It's no fun if you have to worry about offending someone or breaking some board rule that someone else has decided applies. E-mailing and blogging is tough communication. Sometimes words get taken out of context or something gets interpreted wrong (this blog case in point). So keep posting away...we all look forward to it!

re: Why Curlin Will Run in the Classic

Wanda — Sun, 14 Sep 2008 21:18:18 GMT

Bradgm: Thanks for the low down on board etiquette. I'm a newbie from this spring and I constantly worry that I'll say or do something wrong....

re: Why Curlin Will Run in the Classic

Bradgm — Sun, 14 Sep 2008 13:13:29 GMT

Karen,

I saw you lost one of your adoptees, sorry to hear that.

I guess guys see things differently as far as the human qualities. I see them as beautiful creatures with personalities and quirks.

As far as board rules, well there IS a certain kind of protocol. Maybe the fact that I've been a board monitor, blogger and commentor on other boards I apply that same protocol.

My problem is the fact that you seemed to condemn people for writing their opinions, that is what a board is, period, no interpretation needed. I do recall your posts and they weren't the most kind or pleasant that I have read and you have been a supporter of the worst offender on this board for insulting people, mostly on Jason's board because Steve doesn't appreciate it and most of us don't either. In the past I have tried to be a peacemaker because a lot of people HAVE left the board due to constant criticism

and condemnation and a lot of them were racing industry folks who had some insight that most of US don't have. I actually have met a couple of them. I try to be fair and not name call or make others feel stupid or that their opinions are not valid and those are usually the ones I call out in response. I don't tell people that the board has gone to heck in a handbasket, that's demeaning to them. Like saying they are a bunch of children out of control, even if it's true. Like I've said, we are not the blogger, Steve is, we are just giving an opinion on the subject matter. Drive by posting IS something where people come on infrequently, give demeaning opinions usually after people have stopped posting on the site. And yes there is a general board etiquette, particularly on a board as mellow as this one normally is. As I have said before, I have no problem with BB, it's the human representation who call people stupid and crazy just because they don't agree with the opinion of others.

re: Why Curlin Will Run in the Classic

Karen2 — Sun, 14 Sep 2008 03:44:04 GMT

By the way... nice race today by BB on the turf! I guess he wasn't a no show.

re: Why Curlin Will Run in the Classic

Karen2 — Sun, 14 Sep 2008 03:37:30 GMT

Bradgm: My bud Draynay?? your funny. Holier than thou judgmental thing? All H**l breaking lose was a figure of speech. You clearly have a problem with me and my posts from some time ago and you can't seem to get over it. My post was not directed at you however you took it personal. For whatever reason is only known by you. That's o.k. that you and your trainer buddies don't apply human qualities to a horse. Some of us can and do. I guess I could say you are being a little judgemental yourself about that. I just lost a horse last night that I adopted from the TRF. He had many human like qualities in my eyes. I loved him dearly. He was a part of my family. Is it o.k for you to find fault in people that do what you consider "drive by " posts five days later? Some of us don't have all day every day to sit at the computer and blog. Is this another board rule? Exactly what point were you trying to make by pointing out my post change? There really isn't a point there, is there? Did you make up the board rules? If so, please feel free to post them so all the bloggers can follow your rules. Like I said, my post was not directed at you, unless of course it applies to you. If it does, then it was and that is my opinion. Drive by post or not. See you next time I make it back to the boards... peace...

re: Why Curlin Will Run in the Classic

Bradgm — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 14:57:09 GMT

Karen2,

I wasn't criticizing you changing your handle, just making a point. Also when you address in generic terms you are condeming anyones point that doesn't match yours, board rules. Just didn't care for your condescending tone, my comments were innocuous about the horses themselves, just not your bud Draynay. As far as being around horses and giving them human qualities, I'm around a ton of trainers and most of them talk about personality or quirks but they don't give them human characteristics. They may say stuff like they know the camera is on them etc. I also am a supporter of a few rescuees, don't really mess with them much, but I do go see them once or twice a week just to make sure they're getting good care. What I find fault with in your post is this holier than thou and judgemental thing. Like because we have disagreeing points "all h**l is breaking lose(sic)" We're posting our views. Steve doesn't like the blogs that get mean and nasty. Me, I find fault with people who do these drive by postings 5 days later.

re: Why Curlin Will Run in the Classic

Karen2` — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 00:24:24 GMT

Monica: I know you never said you didn't like BB. I didn't say you did. My comment about your good memory was the comment you made in your last post that was clearly directed at one individual on the board. I remember when that comment was made. That's all.

re: Why Curlin Will Run in the Classic

Karen2 — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 00:20:28 GMT

Bradgm are you being a little over sensitive? I don't remember addressing your post specifically. I was looking at the comments in general and yes, BB has actually been disliked as a horse. I wasn't scolding everyone, just those it applies to. If it doesn't apply to you, it wasn't directed at you. I did change my post name because there were so many Karen's posting it was confusing. That simple. Perhaps I have posted similiar comments in the past, I guess I'm consistent. The human like qualities I was referring to in my post were sarcastic. However, how unfortunate for you to not be able to apply human qualities to our fellow equine friends. If you spend any time with a horse you will quickly discover the human like qualities. That's what makes them amazing animals.

re: Why Curlin Will Run in the Classic

Wanda — Mon, 08 Sep 2008 15:25:44 GMT

Thanks Karen2.

Hey MonicaV nice to hear from you. I like your comment about these horses beating nothing. If they are Graded stakes winners they should be respected for that. They lose nothing when they get beat.

re: Why Curlin Will Run in the Classic

Monica V — Mon, 08 Sep 2008 14:55:13 GMT

Karen2,

I don't dislike Big Brown, that comment was in answer to another who keeps up a constant blather about another horse who is a "one trick pony". I like Big Brown and think if he wins the Classic he should be HOY, absolutely. I just don't care for the bashing that someone on here keeps doing against every other horse. I just believe that credit should be given

when it is due and not constantly belittling every other horse who isn't BB. No bashing of BB either.

re: Why Curlin Will Run in the Classic

Bradgm — Mon, 08 Sep 2008 14:24:32 GMT

Karen2,

I think you made a similar comment on a blog way back when you changed your handle from Karen to Karen2. All He** hasn't broken loose. I don't think one person has said they hate BB or hate Curlin. Well maybe a couple. same ones who have been preaching it all along. I think what people dislike in BB's case is the human element. The few fans that disrespect others opinions showing their support for him make us dislike that person, not the horse himself. Curlin, the same type people show their disdain for other fans by disrespecting him. I think you are just a little off base 'scolding' the majority of people, there are a couple that deserve it and a bunch of us have been trying to point that out. Also giving human qualities to a horse, that's a bit of a reach IMHO. They are unique in their own equine way.

re: Why Curlin Will Run in the Classic

Karen2 — Sun, 07 Sep 2008 23:37:12 GMT

Actually, Wanda you probably do have a good memory however that comment was suppose to be for MonicaV is reference to her last post. sorry.

re: Why Curlin Will Run in the Classic

Karen2 — Sun, 07 Sep 2008 23:35:54 GMT

Wanda, you have a good memory....; )

re: Why Curlin Will Run in the Classic

Matthew W — Sun, 07 Sep 2008 23:34:35 GMT

If Zenyatta points for The Classic then Curlin HAS to run! She's the dark horse for HOY---also don't criticize Big Brown for his road to BC--he has the feet---I just think Zenyatta HAS a chance, she doesn't look like a filly and has a monster kick!

re: Why Curlin Will Run in the Classic

Karen2 — Sun, 07 Sep 2008 23:33:54 GMT

wow, I go away for a few days and all he** breaks lose. Steve, I completely agree that both horses are exceptional and both have accomplished so much. I'm not sure how a true horse racing fan can actually dislike a horse so much as people dislike BB. I understand having favorites, but to actually dislike a horse? What could one of these innocent horses actually have done to cause such feelings? I was looking back over the past year and trying to remember a time when BB may have acted arrogant. Maybe he looked into the camera in that "I'm am so much better than those other horses" sort of way. Maybe it was the way he would stand in his stall and look at the media with an almost "not sure what is going on here expression". It must have been those big, beautiful expressive eyes. I can see how that alone can upset so many people. He was clearly using his eyes to intimidate and heckle the others. Maybe it's time to separate the horse from the trainer.

re: Why Curlin Will Run in the Classic

LDP — Sun, 07 Sep 2008 12:06:57 GMT

Steve,

Nice thinking on the splits, i think your onto something. Now this is just me, but ever since you wrote this blog i have been watching some of Bernardini's old races. I think i may have found his weakness. Bernardini ran his best races when just off the leaders or on the lead, then allowed to sprint away from them just before heading into the stretch. In the Preakness you will notice he made a huge sweeping run in the turn, and still won. When i watched the race it looked like to me he was a little more tired, than in his previous races, and not bounding home with as much left. Then we have the BCC. He made another sweeping move, but this time when he started to tire he wasn't against just the three year olds he greatly outclassed, he had to contend with Invasor. With a tired Bernardini, against a fresh and talented Invasor, Invasor got the better of him and won. As for my analysis, Bernardini did not big sweeping runs, then having to sustain them, he liked to wait until just before the stretch then sprint away from his opposition. Basically it seems he's Curlin's opposite, and more like Big Brown, who also likes to wait till the stretch before unleashing a massive turn of foot and sprinting away.

Back to Curlin, now that Steve mentions it i think that if Curlin does take to the surface than the BCC is his race to loose, because synthetics do normally tighten up a field and produce slower splits, allowing Curlin to sit wherever he wishes, then during the turn just turn on the heat and run his opponents into the ground, with his huge sustained runs. Against BB, if Curlin takes to the surface, the winner will be Curlin, the one trick dirt pony.

re: Why Curlin Will Run in the Classic

MonicaV — Sun, 07 Sep 2008 06:37:20 GMT

Hey Brad,

I'm thinking of going over to SA one morning to watch the works. I'm only about 6 miles from there.

Funny how the competitors in the Travers were a bunch of nobodies when Col John beat them but were all grade 1 winners when BB beat them in the Spring.

Wanda, good to see you again!

re: Why Curlin Will Run in the Classic

Bradgm — Sun, 07 Sep 2008 01:45:22 GMT

Wanda,

Out, da**'d spot! out, I say (etc)

Act 5 Scene 1 Macbeth (spot=he who must not be named)

Man, they better run this race soon I'm quoting Shakespeare.

But truthfully I'm bracing myself for the barrage of excuses if BB doesn't run well. Curlin's team really doesn't make too many that I've heard, so far anyway. Of course I'm still hoping for Zenyatta.

May wander over to SA to see how the surface looks and how they're traveling over it. But the afternoon is just so different here.

I know Steve is KY bound but I wonder if he thinks this race will have an * next to it. If there's much more of the Del Mar fiasco it may end up a reversal to dirt with the super at Saratoga in high demand.

re: Why Curlin Will Run in the Classic

Wanda — Sat, 06 Sep 2008 23:36:33 GMT

Thou art one of many the see the light. Do thee truly feel we may make a case of our convictions? Pray tell what of the non believers? Do we slay them out of hand or let them live to spew their vemon unto others.

Okay enough so I liked english in high school.

KatintheHat: Nice research on the times, I'm impressed.

re: Why Curlin Will Run in the Classic

KatintheHat — Sat, 06 Sep 2008 22:24:43 GMT

In regards to the Woodward, I heard the Saratoga track described as "dead" and "tiring". In curiousity, I went to the Forego and took a look at the quarters and final furlong vs the Woodward. The Forego went 22.53/22.08/23.88/ 13.06

22.8/23.4/23.41/25.72 14.01

went the Woodward. The first 1/2 mile went faster as one would expect in a 7f race (yes?). I found it interesting that the 3rd quarter was slower in the shorter race and then slowed down even more in the last furlong. It seemed to me that both races had the same pattern and looked like it could validate the "tiring/flat" track description. In addition, I went back and looked at Commentator's Whitney, which was described as a "dull" time at first report, although he later was given a year topping 120 BSF for the race.

Whitney final 150.23

24.16/23.57/24.07/25.22/ 13.21

Woodward final 149.34

22.8/23.4/23.41/25.72/ 14.01

Although I wouldn't want to compare tracks on different days, the ratios of the quarters to each other certainly doesn't look wildly different (obviously the first quarter is the pivotal one in numerous ways). Commentator set the times (on the lead) while Curlin had to make the time up on a sweeping move three (?) wide around the final turn (after being pushed out 5 wide on the first turn by Divine Park). I'm having trouble seeing where this is a "bad" race. Curlin's tough guy was a horse that was coming off a previous exceptional performance (for that horse) on the same track and clearly on the upswing (not unlike BB/Coal Man). Kudos to owner/trainer of PTP for a fine race. Let's hope Curlin benefits/sharpens from this race, a lot of people are enjoying the ride!