Countdown to the Cup: Gold Cup or Cold Cup?

re: Countdown to the Cup: Gold Cup or Cold Cup?

Old Timer — Mon, 03 Oct 2011 19:27:08 GMT

Steve,

Good article. I have learned the hard way that those Belmont preps for some reason do not lead to victories in the BC. Uncle Mo sure ran a nice race in the Kelso but a mile and a quarter is a lot longer and I can't seem to like an Indian Charlie at that distance.

My experience has made me look more to the Goodwood for BC Classic horses and Tiznow and Pleasant Colony were two who both followed that route. I wondered what you thought of Awesome Gem, who closed well in this year's Goodwood? He has been knocking on the door for years - will this be his big race? He should be very nice odds if he runs in the Classic.

re: Countdown to the Cup: Gold Cup or Cold Cup?

Dr Drunkinbum — Sun, 02 Oct 2011 15:55:26 GMT

Steve

In an earlier column you said that Uncle Mo should go to the Classic. It looks like you were right, and now I agree. He's too talented to pass it up. The entire Flat Out story with the horse and trainer is tremendous. I'm hoping you can do an article on it. Experience wise he's fairly young because of the 19 month layoff. He'll be among the BC Classic favorites and has been tremendous this year.

re: Countdown to the Cup: Gold Cup or Cold Cup?

Deltalady — Sun, 02 Oct 2011 03:24:17 GMT

I was a little disappointed in Stay Thirsty's 3rd today in the JCGC until I remembered your article and came back to re-read it to get some inspiration and encouragement! My heart broke for Blind Luck today....will be interested in your take on what happened there. Will also be interested to know if they find anything physical that might have caused her to collapse like she seemed to do.

Thanks for your insights, Steve...what a treasure you are!

re: Countdown to the Cup: Gold Cup or Cold Cup?

Linda in Texas — Fri, 30 Sep 2011 18:02:40 GMT

Steve, just watched and listened to you and Lenny discussing the abominable treatment, or shall i say, lack of treatment for the horse that broke down and suffered agonizingly before a Vet was found to euthanize the poor thing.

I am just now reading on Bloodhorse.com that Pennsylvania Casinos took in 274.9 million dollars last year.

Question: Does Penn National have an on the track Vet for training hours yet??

When i read the article back when it happened, i thought perhaps a vet had not shown up for work. Then i realized they just didn't have one at all during training.

Hope they have done something by now. And that goes for every track that makes money from the public.

Racing doesn't need things like this as a reason to turn people away not only from Penn National but this sad situation gives a black mark to other race tracks also.

re: Countdown to the Cup: Gold Cup or Cold Cup?

Pedigree Ann — Thu, 29 Sep 2011 14:20:05 GMT

Before the 1975 debacle, Aqueduct ran three meetings a year - the spring one they inherited from the defunct Jamaica course, a summer one between Belmont and Saratoga, and a fall meet. In 1972, these ran from March 1 to May 13; June 19 to July 29; and Oct 16 to Dec 16. Highlights of the summer meet were the Brooklyn H and the 10f Dwyer for the 3yos. In the fall meet were the JC Gold Cup, the Vosburgh and the Ladies H, all championship events.

In the mid 1970s the NYRA decided to dig up the inner turf course at Aqueduct (previously the steeplechase course) and turn it into an 'all-weather' course (they call it 'winterized,' but it has non-dirt components) so that the State of New York could get betting revenue year round. Aqueduct was stripped of its signature summer meet and its best races. I have no doubt the physical plant has not been given the care that Belmont has in the intervening years.

The NYRA suits have seemed, for some time, to consider Aqueduct a lower class facility and unworthy of their care and consideration, not as a track with a storied history going back to 1894 (11 years OLDER than Belmont).

re: Countdown to the Cup: Gold Cup or Cold Cup?

Alex'sBigFan — Wed, 28 Sep 2011 03:54:54 GMT

The colts in a pre-BC Classic barn conversation:

Stay Thirsty: "Hey Mo, word's out that a chick is in our race!"

Uncle Mo: "Say, what, man? What is this becoming a yearly event to embarrass us on national tv? Toddy, oh Toddy, T-O-D-D-Y!!!!!!"

ROI: "Did you see her? She's got some frenchy oooh la la name too."

Twirling Candy: "I'm gonna bring her a box of chocolates."

Uncle Mo: "Oh, great, I can see the headlines now, "Colts Fall From Grace in Classic."

Game On Dude: "Hey Tizway, take an aspirin, get some rest, and call Dr. Drunkinbum in the morning. We need you strong for this battle."

Stay Thirsty: "I heard her lucky jock is Agapito Delgadillo (LOVE that name)."

Uncle Mo: "Thirsty what have you been drinking man? C'mon colts, it's time for a game plan........"

C'mon Slew, take it from here.....

re: Countdown to the Cup: Gold Cup or Cold Cup?

Alex'sBigFan — Wed, 28 Sep 2011 01:43:22 GMT

Pedigree Ann,

Interesting post. I agree on the 10f idea but disagree on the Belmont Park issue. I for one think Belmont is glorious and steeped in tradition and prestige. They are well equipped to handle the big races and I think they should be there. I have never been to Aqueduct and have no desire to go. It starts in the cold and ends in the cold, no thanks. I go to Saratoga, Belmont, and Monmouth all in the tri-state area. But not Aqueduct, it's synonomous with "winter" which I hate. Perhaps a weather related attendance issue has moved the big races to Belmont, if I feel that way others must as well. I only fault NYRA for their lack of concerted marketing efforts. There is so much creative that can be developped to lure in the public, but they do operate well-run, top-notch tracks

from a maintenance and operational viewpoint. Belmont Park and MSG are my favorite places in all of New York.

re: Countdown to the Cup: Gold Cup or Cold Cup?

The Deacon — Wed, 28 Sep 2011 00:28:58 GMT

Intersting and informative blog Steve, man do you know your history. You never cease to impress me. My take on this is the JCGC is a million dollar race, very pretigious. Owners and trainers maybe believe they can win that race, earn a lot of respect (the money doesn't hurt either) but knowing that they may not win the Classic. Stay Thirsty for example may not like the track at Churchill Downs but he will love Belmont. Ruler on Ice already won the Belmont Stakes at 12 furlongs so we know he loves Belmont so he would be my logical choice. The connections may feel that the field will be much tougher in the Classic so why not win the one you can win. He hasn't won since the Belmont Stakes so you have to wonder. Truth is, our classic horses are few and far between this year so the BC Classic is a longest for most of these horses. I would say To Honor and Serve, if he likes Churchill Downs will be hard to beat in the Classic. Still a ways away and a lot can happen. I think there is a lot posturing and what ifs going on right now. Most owners and trainers want to put their horses in the best possible scenario for victory. I would say most of these horses only get one shot at this. Even Twirling Candy and Acclamation, if he runs will be formidible in the Classic.

You sure explain things well, what a gift of writing you have....

re: Countdown to the Cup: Gold Cup or Cold Cup?

Shelby's Best Pal — Tue, 27 Sep 2011 20:16:01 GMT

I enjoyed reading your comments concerning the Pennsylvania Derby. I am in total agreement. I thought Ruler on Ice looked sensational and with a longer race the outcome could be reversed. It was exciting to see you in the saddling area at Parx last Saturday. Wanted an autograph but settled for a zoom in photo of you. Glad to see you there.

re: Countdown to the Cup: Gold Cup or Cold Cup?

TXLonghorn — Tue, 27 Sep 2011 19:07:01 GMT

PARX and West Virginia can throw huge sums of money into 2 or 3 races, while NYRA schedules a full slate of championship-calibre contests, spring, summer and fall. When they start bumping purses next year, I believe some of these great old races will once again offer the rich purses they deserve.

I agree that a 10F chute at BP is needed, and I see the merit in running the JCGC over Thanksgiving weekend at the Big A....perhaps for a $2M purse and maybe back at 12F? It probably won't happen, but that might allow NYRA to reschedule a great old race like the Brooklyn at 10F 4 weeks before the BC and reinstitute an attainable Handicap Triple.

re: Countdown to the Cup: Gold Cup or Cold Cup?

TV Training — Tue, 27 Sep 2011 16:44:38 GMT

I picked Ruler on Ice to win the Belmont because of the distance. In his previous races, I saw that if the race was a little longer, he would have won because he was gaining late. Since the Belmont, he has been doing the same thing, gaining late. Wouldn't he make a better marathon horse? Seems like he does better in the longer distance. Or does the Jockey need to get him going a little sooner?

re: Countdown to the Cup: Gold Cup or Cold Cup?

JerseyBoy — Tue, 27 Sep 2011 15:12:37 GMT

Pedigree Ann:

I was going to post something, almost exactly what you wrote. You do know racing.

I hereby add my name to your post.

re: Countdown to the Cup: Gold Cup or Cold Cup?

trackjack — Tue, 27 Sep 2011 14:50:41 GMT

Thanks Steve for another article loaded with information and keen insights. On its own, Belmont's Super Saturday does not have to take a backseat to any racing card in the country. It is a true delight for the racing fan and handicapper. Thanks!

re: Countdown to the Cup: Gold Cup or Cold Cup?

Pedigree Ann — Tue, 27 Sep 2011 14:34:20 GMT

What happened to Belmont's 10f chute? Used to cross the training track, gave everybody a fair chance to get their feet under them. Sure, the 10f start was in another county (truly) and was hard to see with binoculars, but with Big Screens, etc., these days, who cares?

In the same vein, when did Saratoga close down its mile chute off the first turn? Gave the track more options for racing distances, especially 8f and 8.5f off-the-turfers.

The NYRA has made so many bad decisions over the last 4-5 decades it is not funny. They should have left the JC Gold Cup at Aqueduct at its established distance and traditional date (early November); the idea that Belmont should have all the big races was mean-spirited and self-defeating. When the BC came in to steal its date, it still could have been run at the Thanksgiving carnival and since racehorses were for racing in those days, it still could have drawn a good field.

And why does the NYRA think that all races for older horses should be at 9f or less before the fall? East Coast horses are at a distinct disadvantage in preparing for the BC Classic, without a 10f race before October.

As for the Invasor/Tizway comparison...., Invasor was already proven at 10f; heck, he was proven at 12.5f (the distance of the Uruguayan Derby). He could be a bit short and still prevail at 10f. Tizway has never tried 10f and with his running style and damsire (Dayjur, very suspicious), he is better compared to Quality Road than to Invasor.

re: Countdown to the Cup: Gold Cup or Cold Cup?

mz — Tue, 27 Sep 2011 14:33:35 GMT

Rachel NH: I'm with you. Remember Shuvee?

Steve: considering the way things are going, maybe you should explain who "Vosburgh" and "Beldame" were. And keep doing that for all the races which were star races to me and Rachel NH and which are being downgraded for the million dollar "my corporation name here" races.

Bah, Humbug!

re: Countdown to the Cup: Gold Cup or Cold Cup?

Smoking Baby — Tue, 27 Sep 2011 13:58:51 GMT

I think the time has come to upgrade a few races. I'm thinking that the Delaware Handicap, The Cotillion (did I spell that right?), and The Pennsylvania Derby all deserve Grade 1 status. Guaranteed if they were run at NYRA tracks they already would be grade 1. If the Sbuvee (first one that came to mind) and several others deserve to be Grade 1 these three most certainly do also.

re: Countdown to the Cup: Gold Cup or Cold Cup?

NASCAR PRO — Tue, 27 Sep 2011 12:51:05 GMT

Good history about the gold cup leading to the classic.After reading the article it gives me ideas using comparisons.Tizway dosent have the same back class or distance race bottom as did Invasor.Summer Bird finished 4th in the classic and I think Stay Thirsty wont fare much better in this years classic.I still think ROI is like Mine that Bird in that they move way up on an off track,so if the classic is run on an off track he has a better chance,of course the odds board will reflect this.One thing that has changed in my assesment of this years classic field this early, before they line up is I am including ONE 3yo in my possibles and after last weeks races everyone on this board should know who that is.

re: Countdown to the Cup: Gold Cup or Cold Cup?

PomDeTerre — Tue, 27 Sep 2011 10:06:27 GMT

I think it unfair to consider leading HOY candidate Tizway's absence fron the JCGC a "defection". He is not sound right now, and to knowingly run him in that condition would be derelict. I'm sure his connections wanted that race for him as a tune up to the BCC, but they did the right thing.

I do agree that the BC card, especially in its now diluted format, has been given far too much emphasis at the expense of other equally important races.

re: Countdown to the Cup: Gold Cup or Cold Cup?

John from Seattle — Tue, 27 Sep 2011 03:00:19 GMT

Steve,

The world is completely uspside down when both Charles Town and Parx offers one million dollar races and Belmont Park can't match either the money nor the horses to run.

re: Countdown to the Cup: Gold Cup or Cold Cup?

Deltalady — Mon, 26 Sep 2011 22:47:47 GMT

Just love going to the "school of Haskin on horse racing"! Thanks for the great lesson, Steve!

re: Countdown to the Cup: Gold Cup or Cold Cup?

Karen in Texas — Mon, 26 Sep 2011 22:28:25 GMT

Great historical analysis of the various Breeders'Cup preps. I agree that the Classic could well wind up being dominated by three-year-olds, especially since the Bernardini colts are finally starting to gain momentum!

I've always thought that Serena's Song did not do well in the '95 Distaff after winning the Beldame simply because she had such a demanding three-year-old campaign overall and was becoming "tired". Her victories in the Jim Beam and later the Haskell against the boys were exciting, but probably took a toll. She was normally unbeatable at 1 1/8 miles or less.

re: Countdown to the Cup: Gold Cup or Cold Cup?

Elizabeth Martiniak — Mon, 26 Sep 2011 22:04:12 GMT

While I enjoyed the insightful analysis regarding the JCGC and BC Classic, it also makes me sick. Not you, Steve, but the premise being written about. The Jockey Club Gold Cup is a race that has a rich, storied history, a race that has been won by some of the greatest horses that ever trod on American turf. To think it is now considered merely a prep for the Breeders Cup. I am no fan of the Breeders Cup. Yes, it is great to see so many fine horses all in one place, but the Eclipse voters put way too much emphasis on these races. It disgusts me that there have been many so-called champions named champions solely because of a victory in one of these races. The BC Classic, in my opinion, will never have the luster and prestige attached to it as the Kentucky Derby, Belmont Stakes, Travers, or Jockey Club Gold Cup, no matter how much the Breeders Cup is touted as Racing's Greatest Day.

re: Countdown to the Cup: Gold Cup or Cold Cup?

Alex'sBigFan — Mon, 26 Sep 2011 21:54:47 GMT

Great historical overview of the Jockey Club Gold Cup Steve. It's a tough race in its own right and yes very prestigious. Good analysis of the differentiation of the JCGC track (Big Sandy) and how they will have to transition to the Churchill track in the BCC even though both are dirt. Very apt comparison of Stay Thirsty to Summer Bird, I did not think of that until you mentioned the similarities. Poor Tizway's fever may have just won him the Classic, but Mo is turning in blazing bullet works so who knows. I can see how the colts could peak in the JCGC and be spent by the Classic easily. I was there when the mighty Curlin won his JCGC as well as for his Classic in the Monmouth slop. I remember Henny Hughes' Vosburgh too a few years back. Henny's rich reddish golden coppery color was the most beautiful I have seen, more so than Shack's coat. Henny's at Darley now with Street Sense and Bernardini.

I'm throwing this in here for a second. Saturday night I was watching Los Al in CA. and I tune in to a post parade and a horse is doing a kind of hop, jump thing with his hind leg in the parade! It was so funny the TVG guy dead pans, "Well that was some kind of a step!"

Bottom line is the JCGC is no hop, skip, and a jump guarantee to a Classic win, it's tough. Thanks for another great article Steve.

re: Countdown to the Cup: Gold Cup or Cold Cup?

Dr Drunkinbum — Mon, 26 Sep 2011 20:24:35 GMT

Dazzling and informative article. Thanks for the insight.

re: Countdown to the Cup: Gold Cup or Cold Cup?

Rachel NH — Mon, 26 Sep 2011 20:05:22 GMT

Makes me sick that a race that showcased so many of the greats is supposed to take a back seat to any other race...oh well, I'm old...I remember there used to be racing before 1984.