Girls Gone Wild

re: Girls Gone Wild

Slew — Wed, 02 Nov 2011 12:27:26 GMT

Apapane...Lasix is not a steroid, but a diuretic....so it would seem to be a faulty conclusion based in an inaccurate fact.

But...if we discontinue use of Lasix, there's a better chance of competing on the world stage, more often, and improving the foals bred by non-drug influenced stallions and mares.

re: Girls Gone Wild

Cassandra.Says — Sun, 30 Oct 2011 05:33:24 GMT

Touched a nerve here. One poster argues building an appealing sire resume means the boys are run too hard and often, another that the boys are not run often enough, the need to embellish their record for their stud career making their handlers risk averse.

The main reason fillies don't beat males more often is that they are not entered. A few shining precedents have greatly increased the likelihood that the people with a good filly or mare will consider unrestricted races on a regular basis.

In Europe, it was thought that a three year old filly in the fall, almost fully mature and past the breeding season (no longer coming into heat every three weeks) had her best chance of beating males, and that she also had her best chance going long, where muscularity was not important. A horse moves its own weight as well as its rider's, and light-framed fillies have a "weight advantage."

re: Girls Gone Wild

Apapane — Sat, 29 Oct 2011 06:48:05 GMT

Regarding why this trend may be occurring I found this from an article (October 28, 2011) in the New York Times titled 'Goodbye Lasix, and Good Riddance'.

"The removal of anabolic steroids has already improved safety while allowing female racehorses to run with the ranks of males."

Make sense to me. What say you Steve?

re: Girls Gone Wild

Slew — Fri, 28 Oct 2011 18:33:14 GMT

"I am woman, hear me roar.." Yup. Richest horse in the world...

Makybe Diva at over $12 million.

Curlin follows with a shade over $10 million, followed by Cigar, just slightly short of $10 million.

According to biology in humans, males have extreme strength and aggressive tendencies, while females exhibit more stamina and instinctively take tactical advantages. Years ago in a NASA study, it was determined that the best candidate for space travel was a pregnant woman, because of her endurance and stamina.

In the horse racing world, however, perhaps the change is not in the horses but in the American perspective. The fillies and mares have probably been more than capable of competing with the males, we just haven't recognized that fact until the past 10 years.

Perhaps when an Amazon like Zenyatta walks out on a track, we may think she stands a good chance of winning. But we probably underestimated Lady's Secret's chances simply because of her small stature. Maybe we're just simply finally waking up to the possibilities, and finally recognizing the capabilites we've ignored for too long.

And I, too, think that the economic situation may be somewhat responsible for prodding us awake.

All I know for certain is that the past few years have been the most exciting since the '70's. And the gutsiest ride I've ever seen from any jockey was Rosie Napravnik in the Kentucky Oaks on St. John's River...that was mind-bending!

re: Girls Gone Wild

Paddy — Fri, 28 Oct 2011 16:29:51 GMT

I hear what you're saying, Steve, and I'm thrilled that you're talking about the emergence of fillies and mares in the Grade 1 stakes.I believe this is the beginning of filly/colt equality. Soon, the gender won't matter as much as the talent. Our North American belief that the female of any species is weaker or inferior is finally being put to rest. Since 1884,beginning with Miss Woodford, there have been a total of 12 filly or mare Horses of the Year. There have been other fillies who deserved that honor but were overlooked or outvoted. A case in point,1972. The two horses up for the vote that year were both 2 year olds. La Prevoyante was undefeated in 12 starts over 7 racetracks. Secretariat had won 7 of 9 races (including a disqualification for lugging in). Had La Prevoyante been an undefeated colt, I wonder if the vote would have gone the other way? At any rate, I'd love to read an article written by you on this amazing filly, in spite of her sad ending.

re: Girls Gone Wild

TerriV — Thu, 27 Oct 2011 13:28:28 GMT

All these beautiful, talented fillies just make racing more fun and exciting. Great article, Steve, and seeing it all organized and written down is very impressive. All the vague thoughts that have been floating around in my head about the seeming emergence of filly talent are right there in your article. Can't wait to watch them run this year at BC 2011!!!

re: Girls Gone Wild

Arts and Letters — Wed, 26 Oct 2011 01:18:17 GMT

If you look at a herd of horses from a distance, you usually can't tell the males from the females. In the wild, males and females seem to keep up with each other just fine. Unlike some other mammals, any difference between male and female horses seems to be negligible.

re: Girls Gone Wild

Criminal Type — Tue, 25 Oct 2011 19:30:41 GMT

Giddyup, That doesnt seem to be the case in Europe and elsewhere where they ran back in a week or two all the time. Fillies included.

re: Girls Gone Wild

Linda in Texas — Tue, 25 Oct 2011 18:59:48 GMT

There is a nice article going back to the 1700's that might be interesting and goes along with Karen in Texas's comment.

The link is: www.sport-horse-breeder.com/large-heart.html.

Discusses the x gene factor, etc.

re: Girls Gone Wild

Karen in Texas — Tue, 25 Oct 2011 16:48:06 GMT

LiT and Abigail---My comments were in reference to the supposed X-factor heart, not to hearts enlarged by any sort of pathology. After reading further this A.M., I'm finding that Dr. Binns has apparently decided that the X-factor female linkage does not exist; but that Dr. Gus Cothran thinks it may. Dr. Binns apparently formed his opinion through his work on the equine genome mapping project.

re: Girls Gone Wild

Giddyup — Tue, 25 Oct 2011 16:38:41 GMT

I think changes in how horses are trained and raced now have given the fillies and mares a chance to shine. Back in the 30s and 40s it wasn't uncommon to see horses race regularly on two weeks rest and that grueling regimen was just more than most of the fillies or mares could handle.

re: Girls Gone Wild

Weekend — Tue, 25 Oct 2011 16:18:56 GMT

Melair, she whooped Snow Chief

re: Girls Gone Wild

Age of Reason — Tue, 25 Oct 2011 15:59:25 GMT

For the first time this year, I've read an objective comparison of Zenyatta with Havre de Grace, hallelujah!

Havre de Grace's performance in the Classic will obviously impact history's perception of Zenyatta as well: If HDG wins, Zen loses something as the only horse to win the Classic. People will think, "Maybe it's not so hard after all."

But, if HDG loses, especially badly, everyone's minds will immediately compare it to Zenyatta's last 2 runs in the Classic, making Zen look better in comparison to many.

Bottom line: Every year a female wins the Classic, Zenyatta's "legacy" will be diminished because it will seem to be less difficult, in retrospect, every time it occurs again.However, history will be very kind to Zen every time another high-stature female loses the Classic,because they will be talked about in the media as "The filly So-and-so that lost the Classic, still leaving Zenyatta as the only female winner of the race". Just as we really didn't realize how special a Triple Crown winner was until War Emblem, Funny Cide, Smarty Jones, Big Brown & Co's. TC bids all went up in flames! In other words, there's really something to be said about the "One and only"; for example, Rachel Alexandra sent up worldwide flares winning the Woodward. This year when Havre de Grace won it, by comparison, there didn't seem to be nearly the media sensation (despite the fact, in my opinion, that she beat a noticeably better field.)It was like, "Oh yeah,filly wins Woodward.We've seen this before. Hoh-hum. (Yawn)."

Fantastic article, Steve! Enjoyed it, as always!

re: Girls Gone Wild

Pedigree Ann — Tue, 25 Oct 2011 14:16:15 GMT

Some of the reluctance to run fillies against colts in this country alone in the world devolves from Ruffian's fatal breakdown the first time she ran against a male. The race was broadcast on national TV as a major sporting event and the outcome shocked many. The fact that this was a match race, with very different race dynamics, doesn't seem to have made a difference - the lesson many took from the debacle was that fillies shouldn't run against colts.

But it didn't affect everyone. Fillies still ran in the Kentucky Derby (Cupecoy's Joy, Excellent Meeting, etc.), Jockey Club Gold Cup (Relaxing, dam of Easy Goer, was third to John Henry), Santa Anita H (Island Fashion, etc.), Vosburgh (My Juliet - she also placed in the Malibu and San Carlos H), and so on.

re: Girls Gone Wild

predict — Tue, 25 Oct 2011 04:39:46 GMT

I can't believe what is going on, I always remember, everytime I find myself liking a filly in a race I'm handicapping, the old saying "what do you call a horseplayer who bets the fillies against the colts?- broke" It's like this "law" that was somehow ingrained in me during my early years of horse racing handicapping. All I can say is thankyou Steve for making me realize it's time to stop thinking like this and it truly is a New World in so many ways. Excuse me, but I can't resist;................. YOU GO GIRL!

re: Girls Gone Wild

Linda in Texas — Tue, 25 Oct 2011 02:00:57 GMT

KiT this is LiT - i sometimes wonder if some of us people have our feet on the ground or planted firmly in the air. :)

I know exactly what you mean and there certainly could be an answer with the enlarged heart theory.

I already note a bit of vindictiveness but not coming from me yet on the ladies against the gents. But it is slowly creeping in here.

Dancing Smartly was a lovely lady. I cannot believe she has been gone 4 years. I have a beautiful photo of her downloaded in my gallery of photos on my computer standing in the sun with her lovely dapples just glistening in the sun.

re: Girls Gone Wild

Karen in Texas — Mon, 24 Oct 2011 23:39:20 GMT

KY VET--- Is WHAT genetics? I was specifically addressing the comment regarding the "big heart" theory that has been tossed around for years. Current science could probably actually find a gene or gene sequence responsible for that specific physiological occurrence should it in fact exist. I said nothing about the breed being weaker or different than it was 20-30 years ago. I said nothing about changing the breed. I was referring to a phenomenon that has been hypothesized for years and may now be provable. What I'm referring to would have existed for eons and has nothing to do with change. Genetics....learn it....really.

re: Girls Gone Wild

GoldenBroom — Mon, 24 Oct 2011 23:17:29 GMT

I was just going to remark how impressive HDG's prep work is looking, thinking that it's no big deal that she's on poly, how fast and easy she seemed to have gone in her latest work ...but I just read how a bunch records are falling like leaves over at Keeneland. False sense of security...hmmmmm. Going to be some interesting racing the weekend after this!

re: Girls Gone Wild

KY VET — Mon, 24 Oct 2011 20:56:14 GMT

Is it GENETICS? NO!! People dont understand, that horses are like prehistoric animals....people believe the breed is weaker, and/or different than 20 or 30 years ago....Someone says it, people debate it, and now most of you think it to be a fact....."look how many horses get hurt nowdays!" This is not the case....Which many of you still wont get.....YOU SIMPLY CANNOT CHANGE THE BREED,in 20 or 30 years! try 100s of years, to even make a small change in the horse....Genetics.....learn it!

re: Girls Gone Wild

Karen in Texas — Mon, 24 Oct 2011 17:59:43 GMT

Well, if others are continuing to mention fillies before the 6 yr. limit, then I want to add my personal favorite--Serena's Song! She was small, but beat the boys in the '95 Jim Beam Stakes and the Haskell. I travelled to Kentucky and New York that year to follow her career (and Thunder Gulch's) as she completed her 3-year-old season.

Abigail A.---I had been thinking about that "much-maligned big heart gene theory", too, after reading Steve's article and all the previous posts. With DNA testing being as advanced as it has become, and the equine genome map having been completed, there certainly should be testing undertaken in that area. The fact that it seems to be passed through females makes it an interesting area for looking at mitochondrial DNA as well as the nuclear type. Applying current scientific methodologies to thoroughbred breeding/genetics is very exciting to me.

re: Girls Gone Wild

RunnerGirl — Mon, 24 Oct 2011 17:43:17 GMT

To add insult to injury, how 'bout the one-two "girls" finish in the G2 Raven Run at Keeneland on Saturday. Of course, these were two-legged girls: Chantal Sutherland on GREAT HOT over Greta Kuntzweiler on GROUPIE DOLL.

Definitely giving new meaning to "runs like a girl!".

re: Girls Gone Wild

jamesb — Mon, 24 Oct 2011 16:45:38 GMT

ahhhhhh........I still say if Gomez had only been riding Hard Spun instead of Curlin and Hard Spun, Rags to Riches would never have beaten.

I do like to see the girls beat the boys though. Good thing Jerry Hollendorfer didn't train any of the fillies mentioned since he "doesn't believe in that."

re: Girls Gone Wild

Deltalady — Mon, 24 Oct 2011 16:23:25 GMT

Several have made comments about the lack of publicity and missed opportunities to use the male vs. female races as a means to promote the sport. That is a very good point and one that all of us should bombard both the NTRA AND the Jockey Club with, because the Jockey Club at its Roundtable in August committed considerable funds for implementing many of the recommendations of the McKinsey report at the annual confab. I noticed that the Jockey Club seems to be taking the lead on this rather than relegating promotion to its trade assn. the NTRA. What was strange to me is I did read that the NTRA has given up any TV promotions, that it doesn't have the funds. However, the Jockey Club is supposedly working to promote more TV coverage (I think they were instrumental in working out the tv coverage of the Keeneland races). I'm hoping we get some coverage of the Derby Prep races in 2012!! There was zero, zip, nada this year, and that is a real shame. I'm getting off track as this is about the male vs. male issue, but it all ties in together.

One final point: Love BloodHorse and it is a primary source for info for me (and, of course, my favorite racing commentator, Steve Haskin!!), but, the DRF has done an outstanding job of its FREE live streaming of the Saratoga, Keeneland, Santa Anita, and the major races around the globe! I'm pretty sure they will offer this during the Breeders Cup!! It is easy to access, no sign-up is required, no password, just visit the DRF site and it takes you to whatever coverage they have going on. We can do our part by posting the web site on our various internet sites, Facebook etc. The internet is a great leveler....it does put some of the power in our hands to help promote the sport. Let's get pro-active!!

re: Girls Gone Wild

tonka — Mon, 24 Oct 2011 15:38:03 GMT

Maybe the next TC winner will be a girl. Can't rule it out. Wouldn't that be an awesome accomplishment!

re: Girls Gone Wild

steve from st louis — Mon, 24 Oct 2011 14:52:28 GMT

I believe the poor world economy has something to do with the increasing success of fillies.

It's a numbers game. With a downturn in the economy, horsemen are more likely to race and campaign their fillies to build up their residual breeding value.