Where to Begin

re: Where to Begin

Kate — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 09:21:37 GMT

The Rock: agreed, Curlin on Dubai World Cup night was awesome. Though my heart was with Asiatic Boy, it did sink when I saw Curlin walking round the ring before the race. He strode round, looking all over a winner, and so it proved. I wonder if, looking back once he has gone to stud, we won't say that Dubai was his high point, the pinnacle of his career?

Several of the comments have been critical of the between-race commentary of ESPN at the BC meeting. Agreed! I'm from South Africa and the BC is the only time I tune in to a full-scale whole-meeting USA commentary a.o.t. a single big race. So here's how it seemed to one outsider, coming from a different culture.

Two things struck me about the between-race commentary: one was that the commentators seemed to have been given orders never to so much as whisper the wicked word "Dubai" or mention that they also held a "world cup" meeting. It was intensely irritating to be told every one and a half minutes that this was "THE" World Cup, and that Curlin was running in "The Race of the Year!!! for Horse of the Year!!! (blast of trumpets and roll of drums ....) It was almost enough to put you off Curlin himself, though it's not the fault of the horse, the hype that thunders around his head. Still, one almost hoped he'd lose, just to shut them up.

The second irritation was that most of the commentary team seemed awfully ignorant about horses, trainers and jocks from outside the USA (not Trevor Denman, to his credit). I had to grin behind my hand when they had some Englishman join their panel as a guest before the Turf was run. He noted with surprise that they had hardly mentioned Eagle Mountain as a betting prospect, though in his last race he had run the Rowley Mile at Newmarket, England (where the 2000 Guineas is run) in course record time, even though he isn't a miler. As for Mike de Kock (EM's trainer), it was obvious they had never heard of him at all.

After this commendation for Eagle Mountain, one of the commentators immediately added EM to his bet structure and did very nicely on it I believe. But this change of heart came too late for most punters watching the show. How can these guys advise bets when they clearly haven't done their homework? I know they aren't legally liable, and a punter should do his/her own research, but at these big meetings there's many a small occasional punter who could really do with some informed advice. Or maybe they had done their homework and had discounted MdK as a racing force to be reckoned with - bit arrogant, that, if it was the case.

(A few days later the RSA racing channel Tellytrack, picked up this little playlet in a magazine program and had a merry chortle over it, not much to the credit of American commentators.)

re: Where to Begin

LDP — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 23:09:49 GMT

Thx Rock

My point, and i'm just making a statment, nothing more, is that the Dubia World Cup still gets mor international attention than the Breeders Cup. Sure this year we got some of the Euro's, but that was because the synthetics, nothing else. The WC is on dirt and they still get people from all over the place, Australia, Europe, Japan, Africa, and more. We got a couple of very good Euros and a few from a few other countries, but not like Dubia. You can't sit there and call yourself the world's greatest stage, or the world's biggest proving ground, when your not. That is why when Curlin won in Dubai he became HOW because he beat the world. In the Classic Curlin wasn't beaten by the world, he was beaten by a couple of Europe's best turf super stars, i emphisize TURF. In Dubia Curlin won on dirt and beat the world's best on dirt. So as of now he is still on dirt HOW.

re: Where to Begin

THE ROCK — Thu, 30 Oct 2008 15:55:20 GMT

LDP,

The reason why the DWC is such a big hit is b/c Sheikh Mohammed foots the bill for all participants to the World Cup (Airfare, Hotel). This is something I brought up to Steve Haskin about last week on how the Breeders Cup can assist in these participants from around the world who have to pay a good amount for not only the aformentioned but the pricey entry fees as well. He stated that it would cut into the profit of the BC and it was highly likely that they'd do it. I read an article last week on DRF that the BC is looking into sponsorships that would be able to front the costs for Airfare/Hotel for the BC participants, which would be an absolutely huge accomplishment in bringing the very best that Europe and America has to offer. It's bad enough that these guys have to pay for everything knowing that even if they run fifth in any race on the BC card it wouldn't make up for all of the expenses. Maybe the BC can redistribute the purses a bit to make it a little beneficial for everyone participating. Spread the Wealth as the Republicans are proclaiming the Democrats will do if they're elected! lol. But back to the original point, that's why the DWC is such a great event to attend. Money is just an afterthought to the Sheikh, so he can go all out. I'll tell ya, it'd be great if the BC can present itself the way that the DWC does. Problem is that most tracks are way too small and to have all of the festivities displays nearby the barns would just rattle all of the horses prior to running. I'm sure the rest of the horses in Dubai are clear from that. And remember they do the racing at night. Hell, I get up in the early morning here on the west coast just to watch the Carnival. Let the BC go primetime with the Ladies day on Friday as opposed to the day when everyone's at work. Santa Anita can get some lights installed by next November I think....?

re: Where to Begin

da3hoss — Thu, 30 Oct 2008 15:54:28 GMT

Turnback the alarm...I couldn't believe they were letting Desert Code go off at 36:1...that was my big coup of the day!

The Rock, i wasn't mentioning the 140' heat as an excuse for Curlin, because you are right they all ran on the same track...a synthetic track...I was wondering what 140' does to a synthetic track...up until the 5th race (I think) they were telling the track temp each race, then I didn't hear anymore...

if they watered the track to cool it, then what does a watered synthetic track run like?

Seriously, I would really like to know how a hot or watered track runs ..and would appreciate someone here who's around it all the time helping me understand.

re: Where to Begin

Karen in Texas — Thu, 30 Oct 2008 15:36:49 GMT

Flyinhome, You are exactly right in your assessment of Curlin, Steve A., Mr. Jackson, and how the BC entry came to be after months of saying it would not happen. Don't you know that they are just sick?

Hawkeye, Most of the time the Turf Writers give weight to a horse's entire year of work. In fairly recent history, there was Cigar, who lost his second BC but went over the earnings record that year, and was named HOY. (Of course, he was a horse who couldn't run a step on turf, only dirt.) Then, the year Skip Away won the BC and set a record, he did not get HOY. Many thought this was a travesty. He finished out of the money in his second BC, but did receive HOY honors that year. I always thought the Writers realized they had made a mistake before. Anyway, these hard campaigners are usually recognized for all they have done. (Go, Curlin!)

re: Where to Begin

rich loughrey — Thu, 30 Oct 2008 13:05:48 GMT

Two Euros who had never raced beyond a mile and never over a surface other than grass ran one-two in the Classic! The Breeders Cup Classic is a race at the Classic distance of one mile and a quarter on DIRT. The result is a fiasco, travesty and WORSE: a Handicappers nightmare. (I still appreciate you Steve.)

re: Where to Begin

Hawkeye — Thu, 30 Oct 2008 10:55:25 GMT

First I would like to say that I agree with Karen2 to a great extent. I don't care for the politics surrounding the Breeder's Cup. In 2007 we had many good 3 year olds. Was Curlin voted Horse of the Year just because he won the Classic? I hate to think that a horse will get HOY dependant on a Breeder's cup win. As many wonderful horses as we have this year, it really looks like it would be more correct to look at accomplishments and throw out the Breeder's cup for those who were unable to attend. So many ran all over the country and did well. It seems that is not even taken into consideration. Perhaps Pepper's Pride should be HOY if we are talking undefeated horses. I will not be watching the Breeder's cup next year. As you can tell, I do not subscribe to the way in which HOY is decided. Like our taxes it won't go away either.

re: Where to Begin

David — Thu, 30 Oct 2008 05:11:09 GMT

NBC's coverage of the first 23 Breeders' Cups were far superior than anything produced by ESPN over the past two years. Being on track and seeing so many great horses and connections was worth the price of admission - and then some. Most impressive were Zenyatta, Goldikova, Midnight Lute, Conduit and Raven's Pass. Could not believe Conduit was let got at 5 to 1 and Eagle Mountain ignored at 11 to 1! My nice $10 exacta box returned almost $1,600! Can't wait 'til next near!

re: Where to Begin

Flyinhome — Thu, 30 Oct 2008 03:38:44 GMT

THE ROCK:

Steve does know his horse...better than you give him credit for. If you remember correctly, the orginal plan was to race in teh Gold Cup, then in Japan. the BC wasn't even in the equation BECAUSE of the Synthetic surface. i respected both trainer and owner for not racing because the surface. I mean, the DIRT mile, was run on synthetic....which runs like turf. that kind of makes me upset, because you might as well had have them race on the turf...

Back on track...What changed their minds is when he won the race, and all of his fans wanted him to race in the BC SOOOO bad. it wasn't fame, fortune or greed. they showed great sportsmanship going into the race....BLind...last minute choice to race. almost not time for any training change!

Hats off to Steve A. and Jess Jackson...

re: Where to Begin

Flyinhome — Thu, 30 Oct 2008 03:31:00 GMT

MIKE M:

Curlin worked fast for curlin... Steve's horses are NEVER known for their fast times. He works on endurance and mind-set with the horses. These works reminded me a lot of his Dubai works. he OWNED the track when he ran. BUT, i think his training and working only a couple of furlongs really hurt his chance in the Classic. Difference: one was pro-ride, and one dirt. Steve can train an awesome dirt horse. He has had almost absolutely no luck with synthetic (with the exception of Zanjero=)...i think it has to do with that he doesn't know the quirks of having to train them on teh surface...but that part is only my opinion. i respect him as a trainer..and a great horseman.

re: Where to Begin

LDP — Thu, 30 Oct 2008 01:42:15 GMT

This is just a question, a lot of people like to say that we don't get a lot of international attention because the BCC is on dirt, and we primarily race on turf. My question is why does dubai get more global attention than us, when it's biggest race, the DWC is run on dirt, and is suppose to crown horse of the world? Does it have to do with it being steroid free, because they have the same basic races for their series, the world cup is equal to our Classic, they have a sprint, a mile, a turf for males and females, a distaff, and two races for young up and coming three year olds, which is sort of like our juvenile, only they race at three. Their set up is the same as ours, yet they get more attention and stock put into who wins. Why is this, they don't race primarily on turf, but they were steroid free before us. I also know their purses are worth more but, our classic is only one million behind, to day in racing thats not all that much. Any ideas?

re: Where to Begin

Bill — Thu, 30 Oct 2008 01:20:11 GMT

Rock, I agree with you insofar as the Brits taking all the worst of it and still giving us a beating. Hats off to them. I still wonder what would have happened if these same horses met at Belmont. Maybe, the same results would happen, but I've got to think Grand Couturier was compromised by the firm turf. He wasn't going to beat Contour anyway. The Europeans are simply better than us on grass. It's their game. I am not so sure that Raven's Pass and Henry would have run one-two at Belmont. Even Gosden admitted he wouldn't have been in the Classic if it had been run on dirt.

Millreef: Zarkava was special and it hurts all of us to see her retired so young. As you say, she beat Goldikova and that's all you need to know about her. What a loss to racing!

re: Where to Begin

Turnback the Alarm — Thu, 30 Oct 2008 01:19:20 GMT

Steve, You are the best writer in horseracing!!!! I have made lots of money just betting who you said had the best coats and the best showings for their works before the big races. The funny thing is, I only bet about 10 times a year.

Having given you your props, please pass the love to Richie Migliore. I loved your article about him and Desert Code. I didn't win a dime on that race but it was by far the happiest I was for the two days. NO ONE deserves a big win more than the MIG. He is a class guy and someone that everyone can respect. May he remain healthy and his family happy for the rest of his life!

re: Where to Begin

Millreef — Thu, 30 Oct 2008 00:44:44 GMT

A couple of comments here after saying that this is by far the most interesting section on the BloodHorse! Thank you Steve!

Anyway, I'd like to approach this from a slightly different perspective. This was, for me, the best racing I've ever seen during a Breeder's Cup (I've seen all of them). We can sit here and argue (from an insider's perspective) about the relative merits of dirt, turf, synthetics, etc...and I'm sure we will all agree to either agree or disagree in the end.

However, I think the important question is what produces the best racing - of a type that will once again captivate the public. Our favourite sport is far from its glory years (try and even find decent coverage on general sports sites like Sports Illustrated) and, in my opinion, you start with re-generating interest by producing terrific finishes. This Breeders Cup produced some really great ones.

Having given this some thought, it seems to me that great finishes are much easier to produce when horses are finishing strongly - when all their amazing power is applied when closing down the stretch. I don't know whether or not synthetics aids in this or not but it certainly seemed to produce some good ones this time. For my money, this is far more compelling than dirt racing where the horse which is slowing the least tends to win. This isn't to say there aren't great finishes produced on dirt - but I'd like to hear what people's thoughts are on whether one surface or the other more consistently produces them.

Final completely unrelated point which will, no doubt, put the fox in the hen house! The best horse on the planet (recently retired) is Zarkava! She not only spanked Goldikova at a mile without breaking a sweat - she then went on and hammered the best males in Europe over a mile and a half in the Arc. Unfortunately, I can't refer you to watch her on YouTube because someone has yanked all the videos (but that's a rant for another time).

re: Where to Begin

Steve Haskin — Wed, 29 Oct 2008 23:01:08 GMT

Thanks for the comments on Migliore. I've known Richie since he was an apprentice and have been waiting to write a story about his first Breeders' Cup or classic for a long time. No one deserves it more. I hope others on here check out the story on the Bloodhorse Breeders' Cup channel, just so they can get to know who he really is and what kind of dedication he has.

re: Where to Begin

Dreamer's Mom — Wed, 29 Oct 2008 22:45:38 GMT

Since there is no where to comment on your piece on The Mig, I am going to comment here. YEAH!!!!! A big win for the good guys! Thank you so much for giving Migs a few extra props. He is a great tactician, but still rides with such joy. Wish we all had jobs we loved that much!

Now that everyone knows how great he is I may never get him on my filly!

Continued success and many safe trips, Migs!

re: Where to Begin

THE ROCK — Wed, 29 Oct 2008 22:23:06 GMT

Hey, doesn't Steve A. know that for his horse to perform well over a racetrack that he needs to prep on it in an actual race? Like how he did in the World Cup? I'm sorry but if they were serious about this race they would've skipped the Gold Cup and prepped in the Goodwood. And Curlin still ran a great race. But he was beaten two top notch European based horses that day. Gotta give it to them and blame the connections for taking this race for granted and ultimitely blaming it on the surface for how it plays. I didn't hear him yack about Monmouth when Any Given Saturday trounced Curlin his first time over it. It was just a bad game plan set for the biggest race of the year.

re: Where to Begin

THE ROCK — Wed, 29 Oct 2008 22:02:57 GMT

Well Bill, Zenyatta exceled at 4 different distances at a high level to Curlin's 1. I just think everyone is fixed with tradition and stuck on dirt and aren't quite ready to adjust to the game as it's presented now. Don't get me wrong, I was a huge critic of the synthetic surfaces when they first came out, especially out here on the west coast when speed just dominated all the time, especially under "wet-fast" surfaces. Although I'm still not a fan of the Poly, I believe that the form has held up well with the Cushion and Pro-Ride surfaces. I mean Class prevailed in the majority of the main track races at the BC or won by horses that were getting good at the right time (Albertis Maximus/Mile). Juvenile/Juvenile Fillies (All grade 1 winners ran 1-2-3 except for Pursuit of Glory, Euro Bias? lol) BC Sprint: Midnight Lute. Last Years' winner, Fatal Bullet horse improving at the right time, Street Boss. Filly/Mare Sprint: (Grade 1 winners 1-2-3 except Intangaroo)

Distaff: Zenyatta's tops. Cocoa Beach still improving along with Music Note. Ginger Punch ran well on sythetics at Kee. I thought she was over the top, and the public thought so as well if you look at the off odds. Classic: The 3 Euros had around 11 or 12 grade 1's combined this year alone! Curlin ran a good race but was no match. And again, the Euros didn't have it easy b/c of the surface. They flew in late for the race, were stuck in quarantine, only galloped a few days in this sweltering heat. I think they were more at a disadvantage than any horse based in America. The best horses won. Period.

re: Where to Begin

DONNA — Wed, 29 Oct 2008 21:03:15 GMT

If we can have dead heats on the race track at the wire, why can't we have a dead heat for HOY? Seems to me that would be pretty fair to all the Curlin lovers and all the Zenyatta lovers. I think they are both deserving of it and find it hard to fault either one.

I also agree that maybe Curlin wasn't trained enough for the Classic. Don't athletes train day after day to just get better than they previously were?

Also would like to hear more about dams and sires of the contenders and how they've been training and their workouts. That information on Derby Day this year is what helped me to include Denis of Cork to catch the tri that day. So that info can be very helpful.

re: Where to Begin

MikeM — Wed, 29 Oct 2008 20:41:03 GMT

Please enough of Tiago. He is the new Perfect Drift. He can't be put in the same class with the top three. He ran third because Mike Smith rode a very smart race. I agree with the person who said that Curlins connections were partly to blame for not pointing to the race. He should have run in the Goodwood.Also, can someone tell me why they work him in 1:05,1:06,:52 etc.

and then throw in a :59.I wonder why his works are always so slow.I'm not saying he has to work lights out every time but most of his works are slow.

re: Where to Begin

Bill — Wed, 29 Oct 2008 20:24:12 GMT

The thing that strikes me about the results this past weekend is that we really need categories for synthetic tracks when it comes to Eclipse Award voting. Moreover, HOY should be based on [among other things] overall proficiency on all surfaces. How can you say one horse is better than another when they excel on different surfaces? It certainly appears that the supremacy of dirt form is now in doubt when it comes to determining which horse deserves the top honor.

re: Where to Begin

CURLINLOVER — Wed, 29 Oct 2008 16:43:50 GMT

Lots of great comments and opinions on this blog; very interesting stuff. I'm a devout CURLIN fan and can't but help thinking that he'd have won on dirt, however; but we'll never know. On the Proride, he definitely tired in the last furlong - maybe due to undertraining on this surface, maybe due to a loaded year; he's raced every month since June; and that was after Dubai!!! Maybe he was too far back early in the race, maybe too wide on the last turn! No matter! It's over! I still love CURLIN and hope to see him race again. He deserves HOY after all he has done this year! Noone can match his sum of achievements! Not even the great Zenyatta!

So, here's to you, CURLIN, and HOY one more time! My little purebred silver bengal proudly bears your name

GO CURLIN!!!!!!!!!!!!

re: Where to Begin

fb0252 — Wed, 29 Oct 2008 16:08:06 GMT

i have tried hard to find something Haskin wrote that I disagree with. nada.

re: Where to Begin

THE ROCK — Wed, 29 Oct 2008 15:50:28 GMT

Also, if Curlin can handle Dubai's heat, this should've been a piece of cake.

re: Where to Begin

THE ROCK — Wed, 29 Oct 2008 15:49:50 GMT

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the track watered halfway through Saturday's card? And if it was, it throws that 140 degree temp out the window. When the Pro-Ride is watered, the temp on the track drops in half. I believe it was watered by the 5th, so it conceivable that Curlin ran in 70-80 temps. But to say he was done in by that alone is bull. EVERY HORSE ran in that heat as well!