Haskin's Belmont Report: Billy, We Hardly Know Ya

re: Haskin's Belmont Report: Billy, We Hardly Know Ya

Sean Kerr — Tue, 14 Aug 2012 14:13:33 GMT

Dear Upset

Your comment about Billy's day rate borders on slander. "

Show people you give a darn about winning, and aren't out to just charge them day rate, and you'll earn yourself better horses.

And don't allow yourself to be used in publicity stunts like that filly Notinrwildestdremz."

By the way, I am one of the owner's of Notinrwildestdremz. You absolutely have a right to your opinion.

My opinion is that you don't have the spine to stand by your words and that is why you hide like a coward behind your label "upset".

Sincerely, Sean Kerr

re: Haskin's Belmont Report: Billy, We Hardly Know Ya

JoJo — Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:33:23 GMT

Mr. Turner is a true horseman. His knowledge and experience is invaluable to pass along to the next generation of trainers. He is a kind and generous gentleman that deserves recognition and never to be forgotten for his accomplishments big and small. We are starting a campaign collecting names and signatures to nominate him to the Hall of Fame. Please contact 5R Racehorse Stables email: office@5Rstables.com if you agree.

re: Haskin's Belmont Report: Billy, We Hardly Know Ya

hank — Tue, 05 Jun 2012 14:08:39 GMT

Racing gods sometime are very tough on people, Mr Turner has a differrent attitude than other trainers, he doesn't try to sell u the Brookyn Bridge for a dollar, and that is the key difference between being a small time has been or a big time succesfull trainer,Reason I say that is because you have to have big money to operate in these circles, profit and loss sheet doesn't come into play in these circles, just make sure you looked like you just came out of dry cleaners at all times Definetly for what ever reasons he got the short end of the stick, I find it truly hearwarming that Mr O'Neil was so humble in pursuing advice from this man.Sometimes sucess in lfe comes in different ways,

re: Haskin's Belmont Report: Billy, We Hardly Know Ya

Thelwell Pony — Mon, 04 Jun 2012 15:05:02 GMT

I felt very sad when I first read this article. It's hard to see legends fade away. It's also hard to feel like they get exploited from time to time. The true majority of thoroughbreds running at any given time are horses of dubious "quality." Seattle Slew was one of them - $17500? That's STILL a pretty cheap horse today! The fact that they don't break any records or win national acclaim on a daily basis doesn't mean they give any less. Maybe training in relative anonymity is still satisfying to someone who has "been there, done that." Coaxing talent, even fleeting, out of B & C students can be rewarding. We should probably be thankful that someone with so much talent and horsemanship is looking out for horses at this level of the sport.

At any rate, I hope Mr. Turner billed Mr. O'Neill for the consult! If his advice was on the house, it was priceless.

re: Haskin's Belmont Report: Billy, We Hardly Know Ya

Pedro1874 — Mon, 04 Jun 2012 11:43:59 GMT

Another wonderfully written article Steve - thanks again. I would like to go against the flow and comment on Billy's present record (2 from 55 last season). Surely two of a master trainer's many skills are in the placing of lower grade horses in races that they can win and also when to tell an owner that their particular horse will NEVER win so as to know that most of the horses in your barn are all potential winners albeit in maidens and claimers?

re: Haskin's Belmont Report: Billy, We Hardly Know Ya

Linda in Texas — Sun, 03 Jun 2012 17:02:22 GMT

Slew, well finally i find the connection. I thought it was due to the moniker you use to post. He is was and will always be my hero.

Seattle Slew no less no more and trained by the quiet man Mr. Billy Turner. And next comes Skip Away, Kip Deville, Lava Man, Game on Dude, Paddy O'Prado and my neighbor state's Pepper's Pride, then Zenyatta and Rapid Redux who is now at Old Friend's. He will liven up the place with his young age and Michael Blowen says in his email to friends that the bad man Gulch is his best bud. Tell me there isn't love in racing.

Next week at this time there will be a Belmont Winner. I look forward to a clean, and i mean clean in every way from trainers to jockeys to horses, to gate loaders. I jinx no one.

Good Luck and a safe return to all and i truly mean that.

re: Haskin's Belmont Report: Billy, We Hardly Know Ya

Reeves — Sat, 02 Jun 2012 17:48:08 GMT

Steve, another great article!!

I'm sure Billy Turner has a keen interest in the success of I'll Have Another. Do you know if Billy expressed any special interest in the stable pony? Had to be very nostalgic.

re: Haskin's Belmont Report: Billy, We Hardly Know Ya

Slew — Sat, 02 Jun 2012 14:51:45 GMT

PS Linda in TX: " i think that is what the doctor told my parents when i was born! Upside down and backwards! Been going uphill my entire life."

Same here! Guess we're 2 of a kind.

After 34 years, you would think Belmont would promote the opportunity to host a possible Triple Crown winner. Instead, they continue to throw roadblocks in his way at every turn. He was almost run over by a loose filly on Thurday. Don't forget to wear your Breath Right strips to the Belmont, folks. Show Belmont what you think of them.

And WHY does no race track have a Seattle Slew stakes...especially Belmont, his home track?

re: Haskin's Belmont Report: Billy, We Hardly Know Ya

Slew — Sat, 02 Jun 2012 14:36:04 GMT

Haven't read all the comments yet, but had to say, I love Billy Turner. I keep an eye out for his runners in NY but see less and less each year. It's too freakin' pathetic. When I watched HRTV's 2 part special on Slew, Billy Turner impressed me most, and I felt that his comments were honest, and the most accurate description of events.

I believe Billy Turner is a true horseman, and I will always be grateful for Slew.

Thank you Steve (at least you've never forgotten) and Billy, and Doug for seeking counsel from the man who knows how to get it done.

And to whomever spoke of how quick trainers are to geld a fractious horse, you're right. But then, they did geld Kelso and it never mellowed him an inch. There is simply a fiery independence and intelligence to some horses, that we can merely marvel at. I love my wild things!

re: Haskin's Belmont Report: Billy, We Hardly Know Ya

Greg R — Sat, 02 Jun 2012 04:51:54 GMT

Yes, Geronimo, they did work Smarty Jones between Preakness and Belmont. He worked seven furlongs in something like 1:27+, which should have taken the edge off, if that were possible, but it wasn't.

As for the need to go virtually wire to wire, that necessarily depends on the pace and shape of the race, which may determined by other horses in the race, not by IHA. He just needs to be settled and comfortable, while staying in contention. That might mean stalking or even running in mid-pack,if others are eager and set a bruising pace. If he can set fractions on the lazy side of moderate, then leading would be fine, too. Que sera, sera. But they should never instruct the jockey to beat the field to the first turn at all costs.

re: Haskin's Belmont Report: Billy, We Hardly Know Ya

Stellar Jayne — Sat, 02 Jun 2012 00:43:54 GMT

What trainers and owners under 50 yrs. of age don't know is that someone who has reached 60-70+ years, no matter their walk in life, still think intellectually as a 20 - 50 yr. old, has desires and aspirations as great as theirs! One needs only to look across the human spectrum of life and fields of accomplishments to realize that the brain and desires do not turn-off at an arbitrary number. Many changes have occurred in the breeding and training of thoroughbreds with much of it not for the better and basically done by a "younger generation" with overblown egos.

As one of the writers stated above and as has been reported elsewhere, Billy Turner was done wrong by the Taylor's. The onus for Slew's failure belonged to them, not Turner. Slew seemed to be a high testosterone horse just like Northern Dancer, but even that type of horse needs down time after several big races.

It is encouraging that O'Neill sought out Turner's advice, I haven't thought too highly of him - this was a plus on his ledger.

May the horse who is best on June 9th win and may they all come home healthy and sound!

re: Haskin's Belmont Report: Billy, We Hardly Know Ya

Linda in Texas — Fri, 01 Jun 2012 20:59:11 GMT

Another Rosebud, your posting hit me right in the middle of my heart and tip toed up to my eyes.

You are so right. Not every sows ear can become a silk purse. But i tend to think many can, do and will. I loved the story of your's. More power to them and you for having the faith in them. We cannot all be blue blooded hoopty do's and that includes people, dogs and especially horses.

re: Haskin's Belmont Report: Billy, We Hardly Know Ya

Alex'sBigFan — Fri, 01 Jun 2012 20:39:40 GMT

Linda in Texas,

Thanks. I answered you in Steve's next article about "Another Gallop" please read it over there.

I like your lilac outfit for IHA.

re: Haskin's Belmont Report: Billy, We Hardly Know Ya

bohemiastable — Fri, 01 Jun 2012 18:08:46 GMT

A few years ago on this same blog I made a similar comment to the state of Jack Van Berg who IS in the HOF but has a record similar to Turner's over the last number of years--cheap horses, long shots, and poor percentage of winners--Mr Haskin did answer and said his personality or similar probably had something to do with it.

Well I appreciate Mr Turners work with Slew, Czaravich and others, I don't question his talent, trainer far better resumes are NOT in the HOF so I wouldn't go that far.

Tiznow's trainer, a horse that won back to back BC's never caught on as well.

re: Haskin's Belmont Report: Billy, We Hardly Know Ya

JON R — Fri, 01 Jun 2012 13:08:19 GMT

I still don't undersand why Turner didn't get elected to the Hall of Fame the year he got Slew through the Triple Crown undefeated. No one else had/has done that. That should have been enough in '77 to get him there. Had he been "more famous/established" at the time that would have done it. I still get a bit unhinged when I think back to the owners of Slew running him back in a 1 1/4-mile race just three weeks after the Belmont. I believe you addressed all that in your excellent story/article of Slew...and his death...and about how many times he was tranquilized for commercials after the Belmont, etc., and then again to fly to the West coast. Slew was a bit of a basket case after all that. That is perhaps the worst example of "managing a horse" one could ever imagine. Slew could have stayed undefeated for who knows how long had that not been done to him.

re: Haskin's Belmont Report: Billy, We Hardly Know Ya

Cassandra.Says — Fri, 01 Jun 2012 06:11:15 GMT

I seem to recall Billy Turner had a part in the original purchase of Slew for $17,500, but it is not acknowledged on Slew's website. The website salutes Doug Peterson for training Slew to his greatest feats -- surely nothing but malice could omit going undefeated through the Triple Crown from the list of his greatest feats!

And Giddyup: While trainers and riders have learned it plays well to say "This horse makes it easy" there are many horses now and historically from whom we often see less than their best, many

a talented two-year-old who doesn't deliver, many a breakdown that was not really an "accident," many a fiery and precocious colt who is gelded to make him manageable. (See requiems for Dynaform and note how many gelded sons he has had win graded stakes.)

It won't be easy until they learn to talk.

re: Haskin's Belmont Report: Billy, We Hardly Know Ya

Geronimo2123 — Fri, 01 Jun 2012 05:06:48 GMT

Yes, Turner is a forgotten trainer. Great article. He also said they were doing things right with Big Brown, however. I still have his comments. What is he supposed to do? Tell Doug to change his training schedule?

Slew was the type of horse that you had to take the edge off of. Turner should go speak to the connections of Hansen because THAT HORSE needed at least two strong breezes before the Derby and he got one tepid drill. And we saw the result Derby day...

Billy forgets that the reason they worked horses twice back then (and they worked Big Red and Affirmed twice back then as well--Big Red ran two bullet 6f drills-between the Preakness and Belmont. Other trainers would run in a stakes race in between...because you wanted to keep the horse fit AND sharp. On his toes...When the elastic is pulled this tight, you need to keep tightening it until Belmont Saturday.

Yeah, I know, i know...training methods have changed. We haven't won a T/C since the 70s and those training schedules either, have we? And, the last 3 T/C winners used their speed early and held sway around the track wire to wire. You basically have to do that since there are no big late moves for T/c horses in the Belmont Stakes. They are always run down when they move and they are so sharp they fight the hold until the are moved early (ask The Bid's trainer or Smarty Jone's trainer about trying to keep the rating hold on their colt along the backstretch).

I do not think they worked Smarty either before the Belmont...I know IHA has the heart, talent and will to win this. And he is fit. Love his gallops. But, will he be razor sharp? Remember, he is the speed in this race (practically speaking). When the gate opens I predict IHA will be pulling like you have never seen him pulling before.

re: Haskin's Belmont Report: Billy, We Hardly Know Ya

Another Rosebud — Fri, 01 Jun 2012 04:52:45 GMT

Mr. Turner took two backyard homebreds from us, a couple of Connecticut yokels, and brought them to the winner's circle at Belmont. Can he train top-class stakes horses? Many other mainstream NYRA trainers would have LOL'd at our high hopes for horses that most would have thought suited for Suffolk or Finger Lakes. He never tried to flim flam, smooth talk or eek any extra money. The man's a quiet genius, a Howard Roark of horse trainers. I think he's ok with that.

re: Haskin's Belmont Report: Billy, We Hardly Know Ya

Greg R — Fri, 01 Jun 2012 04:19:32 GMT

By the way, I wouldn't care that IHA is not working during this three-week interval, but he didn't work between the first two races, either, did he? So that means he will not have worked for roughly SIX weeks, since his work before the Derby. Looking at it that way, no work in SIX weeks is a bit more disconcerting than no work in just three weeks.

re: Haskin's Belmont Report: Billy, We Hardly Know Ya

Greg R — Fri, 01 Jun 2012 04:11:55 GMT

There are so many trainers and would-be trainers that it must be difficult to stand out. Seemingly, it helps to be garrulous, media-savvy and self-promoting and there's nothing wrong with that, but it doesn't come naturally to everyone.

Meanwhile, I'm glad to know what he thinks about IHA.

re: Haskin's Belmont Report: Billy, We Hardly Know Ya

Needler in Virginia — Fri, 01 Jun 2012 03:35:23 GMT

We were lucky enough to meet both Slew and his monster son, Slew O' Gold, at Three Chimneys all the back in 1989; Slew had to be ridden every afternoon just to keep the edge off. He always was a Ferrari with one hell of an overdrive and needed the exercise just to remain sane.......at least that's what we were told by the stallion manager, and I'd bet the he's the one who knew! Clearly, Mr Turner knew his horse and managed him beautifully; why no one went to him after that magical year is a real mystery to me even now. Clearly, the big box trainers are the flavors of the month these days, but you don't see ANY of them doing what Mr Turner did. Take all the evidence, evaluate, put it in the blender and mix it up, RE-evaluate and you still get the same answer.......Laurin, Turner and Barrera knew how to win the Triple Crown; does anyone have an idea who might be able to fill their shoes these days???????????

Snarky, snarky, I know and apologize. (It's not that much of an apology!)

Cheers and VERY safe trips to the Reddam/O'Neill group. Take advice from those who know and it looks like you've found someone who does.

re: Haskin's Belmont Report: Billy, We Hardly Know Ya

Laura from RI — Fri, 01 Jun 2012 03:34:49 GMT

I saw SS in 77 & Affirmed in 78 @ Belmont and did it ever occur that Billy was "blackballed" by those selfish owners (and we know who they are)?

Billy Turner is an astute trainer who knows how to

bring a horse to his potential. It's too bad that more owners don't give enough credo to what has he has done, esp. the snobs @ who vote for trainers into NMHR. Billy, you're a GREAT TRAINER & always will be : )

re: Haskin's Belmont Report: Billy, We Hardly Know Ya

slewcrew7778 — Fri, 01 Jun 2012 03:33:24 GMT

No sympathy for Billy here. Only admiration. Like an old Jedi whose wisdom does not allow for compromise. "Ole Railbird', I suspect Mr. Turner may share your views, and prefers to be a spectator from the realm of obscurity rather than go with the flow !

re: Haskin's Belmont Report: Billy, We Hardly Know Ya

Peg645 — Fri, 01 Jun 2012 03:28:19 GMT

The following comments from above say it all - "too many horse people believe they know everything they need to know", and... "apparently, following the trend and losing your horses in a barn of 100+, just for the bragging rights are more important.It is a sport that is all about ego."

Exactly. While so many in racing must suffer fools gladly these days.

There is no one in racing who is more of a horseman than Bill Turner.

Thank you, Steve - my favorite turf writer, on my favorite trainer. I can hear his voice in the remarks above. I wish to hear it again on the Hall of Fame dais next year.

re: Haskin's Belmont Report: Billy, We Hardly Know Ya

Lexington Bloodstock — Fri, 01 Jun 2012 03:26:38 GMT

Once again, a timely and laser accurate article.

Why has Billy Turner been poison to horse owners after winning the Triple Crown. It was the low class no nothings who he trained Seattle Slew for who bad mouthed him after he made them rich and famous.

And, I'm sure he's not had a major drug conviction so there is no possible way he can attract the same owners as a Todd Pletcher does who's horses run out of their skin and who is not, miraculously, the subject of the same microscopic ridicule by racing authorities as Doug O'Neil.

It's one of the reasons I'm no longer the racing fan I was thirty years ago or so.