Haskin's Belmont Report: Leftovers

re: Haskin's Belmont Report: Leftovers

hank — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 20:25:11 GMT

Hey I am going to Ocala two year old sale tommorrrow and watch some breezing as just an observer not buying, hope to see a few friends and maybe listen to some professional opinion about these last few weeeks, any one from here going? I only live 30 miles from it and spend time over there watching all the time.Who would of ever thought a derby and Preakness winner would come out of there, In a perfect world Baffert would of trained IHA, but he doesn't buy two year olds with the issues of IHA, maybe he should

re: Haskin's Belmont Report: Leftovers

Householder — Wed, 13 Jun 2012 20:07:23 GMT

Well back to the Breeder's Cup and some horses that will have "home track" advandage. Seems like Acclamation has just wheeled off 6 graded stakes, the Factor can't lose at Santa Anita and owns the track record, and G.O.D.s latest looked pretty solid. Throw in a couple of Baffert's B squad and you have one heck of a West Coast roundup.

re: Haskin's Belmont Report: Leftovers

Linda in Texas — Wed, 13 Jun 2012 15:26:50 GMT

Union Buster, you are busting Union Rag's because he won.

Then you say he beat no horses who had won a Graded Stakes Race. Well, hellllllloooooooooooo. Maybe they should not have been allowed to enter in the first darn place.

It goes to my last year's comment that i feel if a horse has not raced in The Derby or The Preakness they should not be allowed to run in The Belmont. Any horse then who was entered into the Belmont was entered as a rabbit to spoil I'll Have Another's chance at being a Triple Crown Winner. Well that backfired when he was scratched. And how much horsemanship is in that plan anyway?

Takes all kinds of earnings and wins to enter the Derby so horses skip the first two legs and get in

with no wins for The Belmont.

re: Haskin's Belmont Report: Leftovers

Slew — Wed, 13 Jun 2012 10:40:35 GMT

Mary: IHA boasts Roberto, Nijinsky II, Northern Dancer and Alydar on his dam side. What's so different?

Johnny: A friend of mine played for the NFL...he quit. Any injury was treated with steroids and lidocaine..and they were sent right back on the field. That's where most players got their drug habits. Is that what you want for horses?

A human can make a decision to stay with a team or leave. A horse has no choice.

re: Haskin's Belmont Report: Leftovers

Johnny — Wed, 13 Jun 2012 01:23:23 GMT

No reason to retire IHA this is what is wrong with the sport give us something to attach to.

A pro football player gets this injury and is told to suck it up.

I guess a horses health is worth more than a humans??

re: Haskin's Belmont Report: Leftovers

Slew — Tue, 12 Jun 2012 23:58:03 GMT

Will, on another blog at the NTRA, I stated the same thing. I may not be correct...but it looked to me as if Leparoux was more determined to keep UR boxed in, than in winning the race.

We'll never know.

From what I've read, the first indication of anything wrong with IHA came Thursday after his work. O'Neill said the leg lost definition (aka..a swelling existed). After cold poutices were applied, he was better in the am. After his tethered jog with Lava Man in the am, the swelling returned, and a vet was called in. Rumors started drifting out of the detention barn about 10:30am. By 11:30 am, IHA was scanned and scratched. By 1pm he was retired. So why is everyone doubting every word every one speaks. Give it a rest. As long as they do right by the horse, it's good with me.

re: Haskin's Belmont Report: Leftovers

Karen in Texas — Tue, 12 Jun 2012 17:19:14 GMT

Soldier Course----Well, possibly, but perhaps IHA will have a successful stud career for which he can be remembered. He will never be obscure in my mind.

re: Haskin's Belmont Report: Leftovers

Soldier Course — Tue, 12 Jun 2012 16:06:26 GMT

Good news: The Belmont Stakes turned out like "How The Grinch Stole Christmas". The fans came out strong, showing up like all the Whos Down In Whoville on Christmas Day, despite the lack of the big event.

Bad News: I'll Have Another will be remembered for only one thing, vanishing back to obscurity on the threshhold of immortality.

re: Haskin's Belmont Report: Leftovers

ksweatman9 — Tue, 12 Jun 2012 13:26:39 GMT

Karen, I was under the impression that Bramlage was consulted, but did not actually examine the horse. There is nothing to debate or argue here, it's a mute point. They did what they wanted to do, I'll Have Another is their horse. However, I believe they had other options, that's all I'm saying, strictly my opinion. The time frame from discovery to the decision to retire did not allow for any options to be explored. Let me say this, I'm a horse lover, and I don't think most thoroughbreds enjoy being turned out to pasture at the age of 3, the only attention and excitement they'll get will be in the breeding shed. These horses are born to run, and champions like I'll Have Another are competitive, they love the game, they thrive on competition. I'm not just looking at this from a fan's viewpoint, but as an advocate for the horse. There is no upside to retiring a gifted 3 year old thoroughbred.

re: Haskin's Belmont Report: Leftovers

Mary — Tue, 12 Jun 2012 03:20:42 GMT

Karen in Texas, I did notice that MM attributed Union Rags getting the distance to Nijinsky. He was looking strictly at the tail-female line, but it is important to also look at the tail-sire line through the sire's daughters.

Union Rags gets his stamina from his dam, Tempo through both her sire and her dam line.

Nijinsky and Secretariat, two of the greatest horses of all time are simply perfectly placed on the tail side of Union Rags' pedigree.

re: Haskin's Belmont Report: Leftovers

Mary — Tue, 12 Jun 2012 03:07:42 GMT

Karen in Texas, Union Rags did get the distance from both Nijinsky and Secretariat. Tempo, Union Rags dam, is by Gone West. Gone West is out of the Secretariat mare, Secrettame. Union Rags' grand dam is by Nijinsky. These two triple crown winners are perfectly placed in the tail side of Union Rags pedigree. In other words, Union Rags can run all day long, he was just getting started at the end of Belmont.

re: Haskin's Belmont Report: Leftovers

robinm — Tue, 12 Jun 2012 03:00:09 GMT

Thanks for the recap, Steve and will look forward to your analysis.

re: Haskin's Belmont Report: Leftovers

Soldier Course — Tue, 12 Jun 2012 00:05:22 GMT

The first news report I read about IHA being scratched stated that O'Neill had said on ESPN Radio late Thursday night that the horse would not run in the Belmont. The next day late morning he came out with the Friday morning developments version. So this discrepancy set up a suspicion that we weren't being told the whole story. Events earlier in the week, like the delay in moving IHA to the detention barn, make me wonder when the connections knew there was a problem.

re: Haskin's Belmont Report: Leftovers

Karen in Texas — Mon, 11 Jun 2012 23:44:23 GMT

ksweatman9----I did not apply human rules to the horse. I am using the guideline that Larry Bramlage himself provided. Without seeing the scans or veterinary reports derived from them, it is not possible (for any of us) to create a plan of care that may or may not include the likes of stem cell therapy. I still don't believe the BC is a realistic goal timewise. If you believe you have something salient to suggest, why not contact Mr. Reddam or Doug O'Neill? Doug O'Neill Stable can be reached via e-mail or Facebook. We do not know what possibilities were explored with their veterinary team. O'Neill is certainly not ignorant regarding stem cell technology since it was employed by Lava Man's owners. Without corresponding with Mr. Reddam you/we have no idea what his intentions were. Who is disputing frailty, by the way?

re: Haskin's Belmont Report: Leftovers

Steve Haskin — Mon, 11 Jun 2012 23:07:50 GMT

For those who expressed interest in seeing the photo of Secretariat and Steve Jordan that Steve has taped to his desk (June 4 column), I have had it enhanced and inserted it in the column.

re: Haskin's Belmont Report: Leftovers

Steve Haskin — Mon, 11 Jun 2012 23:01:45 GMT

Robin, sorry, you'll have to wade through my long recap first before any analysis. The recap tonight, analysis later in the week.

re: Haskin's Belmont Report: Leftovers

robinm — Mon, 11 Jun 2012 22:44:33 GMT

I think all has been said that can be said about the defection of IHA from the Belmont and of Steve Haskin's choice of the word "disgust". I'm waiting (a little impatiently) for Steve's analysis of the Belmont and hoped I would find a new blog when I got home from work today. Hopefully, he will provide his usual insightful comments. For myself, I was thrilled with UR's victory. Do I think he would have won had IHA been in the race? The race time would tend to say "no", but had IHA run, the pace would have been different. Johnny and Rags did what they had to do with what they had to work with. Who knows if he could have gone faster had the pace been different. One thing that can't be denied, is that when the hole opened, he was able to noticeably quicken and blast through the small opening. This showed courage on the part of both horse and jockey and a wonderful turn of foot, especially at the end of a 12 furlong race. And UR galloped out like he could have gone around again. This really should quiet the "distance limitation" naysayers.

Speaking of which, my compliments to Slew for being a big enough person to admit her analysis of this horse and his pedigree was incorrect. Thank you, Slew.

re: Haskin's Belmont Report: Leftovers

ksweatman9 — Mon, 11 Jun 2012 21:54:09 GMT

Karen, I have been in the health profession 40 years. I often make the mistake that apparently you do on occasion, and that being people are not horses and the same rules do not apply. My reference to 3-6 monthes to heal the tendon condition would be WITHOUT agressive therapy. Stem cells are producing miraculous results in equine care. Point is, nothing is being tried in this case, and it leads me to believe IHA's connections never really intended to bring the colt back as a 4 year old. As far as frailty goes. If anyone doesn't think our thoroughbreds are grossly prone to injuries, they are not in touch with reality. Look at the European horses. Desert Orchid fell repeatedly, as in CRASH to the ground, they thought he was actually dead a few times, but he always came back. He lived to be 27, I believe, most beautiful thoroughbred I've ever seen, thick legs, a brick house. Our horses are frail, and it only seems to be getting worse. I don't have the answers, but it's a sad phenomenon to watch.

re: Haskin's Belmont Report: Leftovers

Scott's Cause — Mon, 11 Jun 2012 21:49:27 GMT

IHA "wouldn't have pressed the pace so the results in the Belmont would have been the same". Did I miss the Preakness where IHA was on Bodie's shoulder on the backstretch. All I know is the stretch run in the Preakness looked like it was run in "Normal" time and the Belmont was in "Slow Motion". IHA would have been sitting 3rd, moved with Atigun, engaged with Paynter and opened up. The plodding Union Rags, 2nd or 3rd. As far as sending one of my mares to IHA, no thanx. I'm a Union guy.

re: Haskin's Belmont Report: Leftovers

Karen in Texas — Mon, 11 Jun 2012 21:24:23 GMT

Bob/Ted----It would be difficult to have KNOWN anything unless and until the scans/ultra-sounds or whatever diagnostics they used had been done. That occurred on Friday A.M. as far as I can tell. He apparently was not galloping with his characteristic gusto for 3-4 days, but the localized filling was not seen until Thursday P.M. per O'Neill. He was iced, etc., and the swelling had increased after his mild gallop on Friday A.M., at which point they called the vet(s). I don't know what diagnostic device they used, but Dale Romans' account said that his people called him to come down because something was going on with O'Neill's horse. I heard Romans say they had an ultra-sound in IHA's stall area by that time. I'm sure the IHA team was literally sick, knowing an announcement had to be made. Mr. Reddam had to hesitate during the conference to keep from crying. I, personally, don't think any of this is contrived.

re: Haskin's Belmont Report: Leftovers

hank — Mon, 11 Jun 2012 20:14:54 GMT

Well now I see the truth is starting to come out, this horse was trying to bow a tendon, this is why he is going to breeding shed smart move on their part, tendonitis is very repairable, bowed tendon no way, They must of been aware of this for awhile that is why all supposedly quick decsions, were really all thought out and decided before they took the lid of of it, Oneil was really tough on this horse, galloping him like a runaway frieght train, my horse gallops faster than, most horses train, he said as he was pumping his fist in air, bringum on, yeah another real, real good horse a memory, You want to take credit for traing him when he was doing good, you get the credit for having destroyed him. I loved this horse, and i also think very highly of Union Rags, don't make such an issue out of times, Bafferts horse just came of 120 beyer figure. They only make for good disscussion class is what wins races. guess we will never know what would of happened in race that is t hyper thetical situation, only opinions, but I can see UR wininning his way out, Rember IHA didn't exactly destroy Bodedmister, be interesting when UR and he meet. if we can use that as barometer

re: Haskin's Belmont Report: Leftovers

Ted from LA — Mon, 11 Jun 2012 18:27:02 GMT

I just watched Yentl and my cable bill just arrived so I am disgusted too. Here is what I want to know. When did the team get word he was "injured." I heard from an insider with a different Derby horse that they knew "days" before the press conference. I have no idea if she was correct, but that didn't sit well with Ted Bob. Since I was traveling to get to NYC, I didn't know anything until my cell phone started lighting up. If they knew earlier, they should have announced it. Or did they want to make sure Ted from LA and thousands of other racing enthusiasts arrived in NY before they announced their little secret? Either way, what a black eye. All NYRA members should have to dress in full clown attire at next year's Belmont so we know who to yell at once we foolishly arrive again in 2013. I am speaking for Bob from Boston on this too, so that should give me more street cred.

re: Haskin's Belmont Report: Leftovers

Smoking Baby — Mon, 11 Jun 2012 18:13:29 GMT

I think one handicapping lesson to be learned from the last two Triple Crown race results is that just because a horse comes running past tired horses at the end of the Derby does not necessarily make him the horse to beat next out. So much was made of Went The Day Well and Dullahan after the Derby and look how they both fared next out?

re: Haskin's Belmont Report: Leftovers

steve from st louis — Mon, 11 Jun 2012 18:03:17 GMT

History will prove that this is an ordinary group of 3-year-olds. Did Union Rags really get the mile and one-half? If you give them enough time, all of them can get the mile and one-half. Sadly, I'll Have Another was just the one-eyed man in the land of the blind.

re: Haskin's Belmont Report: Leftovers

Karen in Texas — Mon, 11 Jun 2012 18:03:07 GMT

By the way....did anyone else notice that Matz attributed UR's ability to get the distance to Terpsichorist/Nijinsky during a post race interview? Lots of discussion about that on another BH blog this spring. I saw the quote on Brisnet.