Viva Big Red!

re: Viva Big Red!

smarie — Thu, 28 Jun 2012 20:21:42 GMT

Karen in Texas - thank you for the information.

re: Viva Big Red!

an ole railbird — Thu, 28 Jun 2012 14:12:35 GMT

ok alex, in defence of your opinion, you came with another miss guided statement or phrase. "since we are breeding for speed & not endurance ". you show me a breeder who is breeding for speed & not indurance& ill show you a 1/4 horse breeder. i think you will go along ways to find a tb breeder that will cop to that. you will have to get out of town & in the country, to prove or disapprove that point. studys have proven that living in smaller spaces, with less places to roam has weakened the bone masses of all livestock. there lies another contribter to the problem, we no longer consider horses livestock. the more we humanize them the more softening of masses will continue.

i will agree that the( tb) gene pool has been closed ,far to long,& something needs to be done to "excite" it. but we are not to epidemic stage, by any streach of the imgination.

your doctor friend was right. (but here we go again with 1/2 truths.) prolonged use of lasix can cause damage to bone marrow. what hasnt been mentioned is the "prolonged use " they speak of is 2 to 3 years. nobody in his right mind would keep a horse on it that long.

alex its good to know that you at least veiw the races from ground level. it makes it easier to really feel the racing atmosphere& give you the chance understand the industry better. have a nice day. "an ole railbird"

re: Viva Big Red!

Alex'sBigFan — Wed, 27 Jun 2012 23:04:56 GMT

An Ole Railbird,

Sir I beg to differ with you. I was the one who stated "fragility in the breed." There is no weakness then that you see? Where then is the ironhorse of years past? They are masking a lot of pain and running them on pain meds from snakes snd now frogs, Dermorphin. Why so many injuries off the Derby and TC trail last year alone? The meds are the culprits in the frailness or weakness, they may be good for one thing but detrimental to another part of the anatomy. I had a conversation on a plane last year with a physician in pain medication from Kentucky coming back from Morocco. He agreed with me that the Lasix is doing something to the bone calcium. If we are breeding for speed and not endurance don't you think that has weakened the breed in itself? Look at Moe's enzyme issues. I think it is ironic that we have not had a TC winner since the 70's when they began the administration of Lasix. I appreciate all your experience but I certainly don't pontificate from any penthouse, I'm out at the track and like to stand by the rail feet away from the horses, not in box seats. If I created that phrase, then I grew up an athlete, am married to one of the greatest 5K and 10K runners in this country, am an avid NBA fan and horseracing fan, I would hardly call myself a medical equine expert but I am certainly not an "untrained mind" and I see something weakening our thoroughbreds.

re: Viva Big Red!

Ranagulzion — Wed, 27 Jun 2012 00:53:02 GMT

Dr Drunkinbum and Old Rail Bird,

You two had me in stitches over the "peeing in the postparade" rumble (LOL) Hardly ever a dull moment on these blogs.

re: Viva Big Red!

Slew — Tue, 26 Jun 2012 22:15:21 GMT

Since Ferdinand, G1 horses are protected when sold overseas. Clauses are included to prevent slaughter.

Reddam is not in the breeding business, and does not care to be. His only option was to sell IHA. The point of Kentucky breeders is...why breed to IHA when his sire, Flower Alley is so accessible for a low stud fee. That's why they were not willing to bid higher in the price wars.

And to people who keep saying that if they bred horses they wouldn't be able to part with them...Wake Up. You wouldn't last 2 years as a business. It's the sale of the colts and fillies that keep the stallions and mares fed and well tended....not to mention the taxes. Horses are property, and therefore taxable as an asset. Even Penny Chenery discovered that when she had to syndicate Secretariat to keep the farm viable. Then there's the insurance premiums.

Ken and Sarah Ramsey are throwbacks to another age when the Duponts and the Astors made their millions and had no income taxes to pay. They bred horses for fun. From those old time farms, Claibourne is one of the few still maintaining traditions. Gone are Calumet and Belair and Ridgewood. Farms that are left have been whittled down in acreage.

Since the Japanese were able to offer a good profit, and are looking for a sire to pump up their breeding...I say why not?

The Moss's on the other hand, do breed horses. Giacomo's been very busy. He stands at Adena, but is owned by Moss. And Zenyatta had a special quality to her that partly made her a pet...but she is now in the breeding business too...and we don't know whether or not her progeny will be sold.

So I think everyone needs to get off their high horse about the sale of IHA. And now everyone wants to believe the worst of Reddam and O'Neill. Pitiful! Lava Man's a gelding, is 11 years old, and treated like a shedrow pet. I've liked what I see, just in the way they love him. I simply can't agree with all the conspiracy theories and derogatory comments.

re: Viva Big Red!

Karen in Texas — Tue, 26 Jun 2012 21:56:31 GMT

smarie----I've mentioned Ferdinand several times on this thread/blog. Michael Blowen has been working with Megumi Igarashi of Narvick International Japan to see that our American stallions are tracked while on stud duty in that country. I am not happy that IHA is leaving the U.S., but Mr. Blowen is a man of integrity, and I believe that he is "watching".

www.bloodhorse.com/.../MB062806.asp

re: Viva Big Red!

TCFever — Tue, 26 Jun 2012 20:50:08 GMT

I just bought the entire televised broadcast of SECRETARIAT's 1973 PREAKNESS and it's awesome to see the entire broadcast - not just the race but all the pre & post-race footage.

I bought it from this website:

horseracingdvd.com

and it also has SECRETARIAT's KENTUCKY DERBY & BELMONT broadcasts too.

A++++ recommendation.

re: Viva Big Red!

smarie — Tue, 26 Jun 2012 18:48:07 GMT

I do hope that Reddam put a buy back clause in the sale documents stating that if I'll Have Another proves to be a inferior stallion or a disappointment as a stallion that he reserves the opportunity to buy him back and have him returned to the United States. I worry everytime I hear about any of our horses being sent to Japan. They eat horses there. There isn't that much land available to keep horses. I have read where the vast majority of so called "unproductive" horses are sent to slaughter there. Remember Ferdinand? The Japanese said nothing about sending him to slaughter until someone in this country started inquiring about his well-being. Imagine - someone ate a Kentucky Derby and Breeder's Cup winner! This is still very upsetting to me. I don't understand why Reddam had to sell IHA so quickly. Surely he could have afforded to keep the horse at a farm somewhere for a while. Maybe he could have bred a couple of mares to him while he waited for a better offer from breeders here. Why the rush to sell? The horse took him for the ride of his life and he can't wait a while before unloading him? I will never understand some people. It isn't as if Reddam was working several jobs in order to feed his family and pay for upkeep and training of his animals. It always comes down to money. No matter what your horse has done for you on the track, owners always want something more, whether it be stallion fees or foal upon foal from mares. Some just can't get enough from their horses. Maybe Reddam should name his next horse I Can't Get Enough.

re: Viva Big Red!

Fran Loszynski — Tue, 26 Jun 2012 17:22:55 GMT

Mrs. Chenery I have the utmost respect for you so I'll give you the Belmont but the greatest Preakness race run was by Afleet Alex to fall down and almost die and get up and win the race. AWESOME. I have to say who cares about "time".

I can't believe IHA can't get anyone to breed to him, are all you breeders in California a little off the wall all of a sudden. This is an extraordinary racehorse! He not only has heart, but courage- and I should know because I'm a fan of the greatest racehorse-Afleet Alex. Have a good life IHA, you deserve the best.

re: Viva Big Red!

Karen in Texas — Tue, 26 Jun 2012 16:19:20 GMT

Alex'sBigFan----I believe NY has had a voluntary "Ferdinand Fee" for several years now. It would be great if a mandatory retirement fee were implemented industry wide. Apparently it would require only a modest amount of money. I don't think it would affect the sale of stallions to foreign interests, though. Clauses could probably be created to see that the stallion would be supported after his career ended wherever that might be; it would be a really good adjunct to the buy-back clause concept, I think.

re: Viva Big Red!

an ole railbird — Tue, 26 Jun 2012 12:58:48 GMT

suggestions to broaden you knowledge. read the history of horse racing. research some of the 2nd &3rd& also rans of classic races, of days gone by. read some history of trainers. not only the hall of famers, but some of the less successiful 1s also. get out of your penthouses. go visit horse farms. ( both the seccussiful & th meat & taters farms). go to the races & dont get a box seat. hang out on the apron& @ the beer & hot dog stand, where the horseman hang. get to know some horseman. if you arent so damn critcal, who knows you might get an invitation to the barn area. last but NOT least. when you make a post,please know what you are talking about. dont just read a post that someone has posted& go about repeating rumors 1/2 truths & some down right lies.

its not lasix or drugs or crippled horse that is destroying horse racing. its the propaganda being put out by peta & a bunch of other groups, that in most cases dont know the real deal. i beg of you please dont let this great sport ,drown in the assumptions of un trained minds. im winded. "an ole railbird"

re: Viva Big Red!

an ole railbird — Tue, 26 Jun 2012 12:36:25 GMT

" fragility in the breed ". this statement or phase has been created by the untrained& in experinced fans. who are primirly female or males that are so infulenced by feminine ways, that they stay in the house ,all time & never get out in the real world. there is no fragility, in the breed. the fragility lies within the untrained minds of the bleeding heart fan base. the lack of route horses, has come from the fact that there are few route races. the trainers no longer seek route horses because they cant run them as often as lets say a miler.

when i started in this business 52 years ago. there were only 19 parimutel states. now there are 31 states all competing for horses. the "information age" that we live in now was unheard of. when a horse broke down there was no multitude of bleeding hearts, armed with cell phones ,cameras, tweets & lap tops to publisise it. therefore it was not heard of. there also, was fewer horses in those times& the horseman were well versed in running sore horses. it was just part of the game.

since the addition of more tracks, more horses & the birth of the "information age", the trainers have bowed to the demand of the industry. they no longer train for "route of ground races"

. because there are not many races written because the betting public dont gamble as many $$ on them ,as shorter races. when you bleeding hearts shut up& let horse trainers do their jobs like the professionals that they are. only then will you see a difference. not only @ the track but in the breeding sheds ,also.

i am not a numbers person. but some of you are. SOMEBOBY PLEASE figure the ratio of break downs, now, as oppossed to the 50s. if figured on a per capti, bases, im gonna gamble that the break down rate is LESS than in the 50s. some of you retired fans surly have the time on your hands to pursue this.

me i retired so i could go into training horses full time. and its time for me to go to work.

"an ole railbird".

re: Viva Big Red!

Dr Drunkinbum — Tue, 26 Jun 2012 12:25:23 GMT

Bigtex

That would be it with me too. I'll Have Another would be family, how could I send him overseas? Or anywhere. I can't see it happening. I would have been inlined to give IHA his own ranch and bevy of beauties and let them have the run of the place. If you keep him as a sire, who knows how many hundreds of millions you could make down the line from his progeny? We won't know for awhile but it is possible he could have made more in the long run by keeping him. How much has Sunday Silence made for his Japanese breeders? Billions? I have no idea but it's a lot if money is the issue, but like you, family would be the issue for me. Once you own and animal you're responsible for their welfare and happiness for life and they do become a member of the immediate family.

re: Viva Big Red!

Mike Relva — Tue, 26 Jun 2012 02:52:01 GMT

James Rockford

Agreed! Pity is some actually think they have their fingers on the pulse of racing.

re: Viva Big Red!

Bigtex — Tue, 26 Jun 2012 02:45:01 GMT

How can I weigh this with IHA going to Japan?

The comments on how the media treated team REDDAM during the Triple Crown run are valid. It made my blood boil. He may very well tried to stick it to somebody on this deal. If so, I'm with him.

My first instinct on the man, though, is the way he took care of his people - Team O'Neill, jockey, and all those under his tent, including IHA. I will tend to stay with how, as I interpret what I saw, he led and loved his team.

On the flip side, I'd like to think that as all the insiders in the sport seem to be so concerned about the state of horse racing in the US that they might "take one for the team (industry)" and keep a horse like IHA in the states. That didn't happen and it pissed me off! This was my first instinct on the "deal". What a sucker I am for thinking this one possible!!!

However, make the right investments in this sport and strengthen your position as a breeder, owner, etc. and the sport continues forward, hopefully, to the overall benefit of the industry and to the fans.

Me personally, I would become too attached to my horses and never sell them, period. You like my horses, "bring your mares and colts on over and let's do some breedin, Hoss!!!"

But that's me. My horses would become family & I could never let go of family.

re: Viva Big Red!

Alex'sBigFan — Mon, 25 Jun 2012 23:23:43 GMT

I don't view IHA going to Japan as "world trade" exactly I view it as "outsourcing" for a better price for the commodity. I understand this is a business and Mr. Reddam has to pay vets, stables, trainer, fees, food, workers, insurances, etc. but IHA was campaigned across our great country, his great country and should get to live his life here. He has "no voice" of his own in this. Yes we have the overabundance of stallions here in breeding with all of these premature retirments at age 3 going on. I think Dr. D. hit it out of the ballpark and said the key to the entire process, the meds have to stop the fragility in the breed, we get a TC winner and stamina and endurance instead of speed, and the horses stay on the track for longer intervals prior to breeding. The meds may be that key to everything to turn the industry around. I'm sure there were USA offers for IHA but they chose the more lucrative one in Japan. I don't care what amount of money was offered, I would want to be part of my horse's life, especially a dual classic winner like IHA. Maybe Steve can explain Reddam's decison better for us. I surely don't agree with it. I could never turn my back on IHA like this. Rob Whiteley, ROI's breeder, wrote a great piece a few months ago on an industry proposal whereby any thoroughbred purchased must have a retirement clause in it's purchase contract whereby that owner must contribute to it. Great idea. Mr. Reddam should use the extra money for thoroughbred retirement funding. This makes the Mosses look like saints, doesn't it! Kudos to the Mosses for being in Zenyatta's life and not abandoning her to a foreign land.

re: Viva Big Red!

Dr Drunkinbum — Mon, 25 Jun 2012 17:45:41 GMT

an ole railbird

I get to tend to the rabbits.

re: Viva Big Red!

Slew — Mon, 25 Jun 2012 16:27:58 GMT

The problem in the USA right now is that we have a glut of champion stallions at stud. It ends up lowering the stud fees for all.

It was almost impossible to find a stable for Bold Chieftain when he retired from No Calif racing. This marvelous grandson of Seattle Slew, hero at Golden Gate, at 9, entered the stud market at the wrong time. That's why the offers on IHA were not high in the USA.

There are simply too many available stallions presently at stud.

I love Howe Great. But, even as the grandson of Sunday Silence, can he eventually command a high price for stud in the USA? I will doubt it.

So if the Japanese are willing to spend the money, if only they are overwhelmed by IHA's pedigree, more power to them, Reddam, and IHA. I hope his progeny are as superior as they hope. It's the best thing for the global sport of horse racing.

re: Viva Big Red!

JamesRockford — Mon, 25 Jun 2012 15:24:53 GMT

"Jon R" is a freaking dumbass. There WAS an asterisk because there was a technical error in the 1973 time, if you paid any attention. they studied the tape FRAME BY FRAME and used 2012 technology to get the time right and it is. You sound like just the sort of know nothing casual observer of horseracing that watched Barbaro break down and said, "What's the big deal? The horse just broke its ankle or something" Go the hell away and never come back....

re: Viva Big Red!

an ole railbird — Mon, 25 Jun 2012 15:06:03 GMT

dr drinkinbum, in your previous comments, you ranted that you dont see horses urinating on the track anymore. well sir that is a good thing.

as a horse trainer , there a few excues that i would allow ahorse of mine to urinate in the post parade , but when i see a seasoned race horse urinate after he is mounted. i am gonna be lookin for a problem. & if that state vet is not "all over " the horse, then i am going to be "all over" the state vet. I am gonna say that 88% of the time, there is a problem.

i am not interested in opening " birds school of horsemanship on line " or anything but upon your request, i will be glad to name the few reason it should ever be allowed to happen, without alarm. but right now if you will excuse me, i have got to go tend my horses. have a good day " an ole railbird"

re: Viva Big Red!

Karen in Texas — Mon, 25 Jun 2012 14:43:43 GMT

LiTexas----The BH article stated that interest in IHA as a stallion prospect was "light domestically", and that the estimates of his value here were very different from those in Japan. There were offers here, I believe, but the profit margin not as great. We'll probably never know how many millions were involved. His success at stud will be the best revenge, and I tend to share Slew's view of "world trade" with these stallions overall. That said, I had hoped he would go to Three Chimneys.

re: Viva Big Red!

Dr Drunkinbum — Mon, 25 Jun 2012 12:59:15 GMT

an ole railroad

I don't recall precisely. Seems to me there was a few back in the old days. Maybe a s much as five or six or more. Lost on a few jockeys that did though. I guess I should track it but I don't. Now as far as the lead pony I have no idea. Anyone else peeing out there in the post parade I haven't really noticed. And in fact I don't really pay that much attention to the post parade. It's prior to the paddock, the paddock and walking ring where I really try to look at them. Honestly I don't really pay that much attention to who pees and who doesn't either. I'll have to pay more attention. It certainly would be interesting to see how many win that pee in the post parade.

re: Viva Big Red!

an ole railbird — Mon, 25 Jun 2012 02:57:45 GMT

dr. drinkingbum, sir i have a question for you. how many tickets have you ever cashed, on a horse that, urinated in the post parade. just thought i would ask. will await your answer. have a nice day . "an ole railbird"

re: Viva Big Red!

Slew — Sun, 24 Jun 2012 15:26:13 GMT

I think we have to keep in mind, with I'll Have Another headed to Japan, is what IHA will contribute to the world.

I was broken-hearted when Sunday Silence shipped out...but...he turned out to be the best thing that ever happened to Japanese breeding. Most of their present champions are Silence's progeny. They are fans of Flower Alley, and IHA will command as much respect as Sunday Silence did.

We get South American and European champions here for breeding. Where would our champions have come from without Nasrullah?

Most world champions carry the blood of Canadian Northern Dancer.

World racing gets the most benefit from migrating sires, and it's a two way street. Lonhro is supposed to come from Australia to the USA to stand at Stud. We have Einstein and Leroidesanimaux from Brazil, Invasor from Argentina, the list goes on.

Consider that, while Bernardini is at stud in Kentucky, he's really owned by Saudi's who are quick to buy his progeny.

What's going on is...world trade that is effectively working and improving breeding all over the globe.

re: Viva Big Red!

Katie L. — Sun, 24 Jun 2012 14:59:42 GMT

Barthart

For me I never believed in his ''we'll do what's best for the horse''. I never believe when he said the retirement was only a sport decision and not buisness. The injury was minor, they could've wait one year and come back as a 4 YO, like they did with Animal Kingdom.....but they was chance it would hurt his stallion value

Racing today they don't care about racing anymore, they just want fast horses who can be speedy 2YO and run couple of good 3YO races before retiring fast and make $$$ at stud. In those so-called horseman, its all ''all race 'iron horse' who can stand time and distance if we only need them for couple of races??''

I'm having a hard time believing that absolutely no US farm wanted IHA....that just show how Mr. Reddam just chose the best offer for more money