A Shot of Ascot

re: A Shot of Ascot

Linda in Texas — Thu, 05 Jul 2012 13:11:13 GMT

Criminal Type - Jo Ann Jones on HRTV mentioned that she was spooked by a deer after a delay due to weather. I guess maybe a morning shower or something.

And she will be resting in such good company, whole and with her blanket and bridle. She only went out for a morning run and did not return. The sudden aspect of it i guess is so hard to understand

and most upsetting.

Thank you JoyJackson21 you will find there are many who post here who are compassionate. I am the blog empath. Sounds like you might be also. And ditto on Frankel and Black Caviar and so many more. To me they each have their own special quality that sets them apart from another. And it's fun to watch them grow into their own, show up and give it their all.

re: A Shot of Ascot

Dr Drunkinbum — Tue, 03 Jul 2012 02:25:51 GMT

JoyJackson21

Thank you very much. It's great to have you here. It is easy to tell that you have passion, compassion, and a way with words that will truly be appreciated here on the best blog in the world. I really like your description of some of the attributes that we see in a thoroughbred that inspire us. I'll Have Another also had tremendous natural stamina for the classic distances which is one of the reasons I hate to see him go. I am very much looking forward to reading your comments in the future. Thanks for showing up !!!! There is a comradery here of people that love the sport but even more importantly love the horses and are deeply concerned about their health and welfare. It's the greatest game and the stars are one of the greatest creatures on earth, the thoroughbreds, and we owe them the best of care and treatment. I love to see a horse pre-race that has all of the signs of health with a shiny coat and is walking like a champion with a bowed neck who then wins the race and still carries that tremendous, proud energy back to the winner's circle knowing he or she is the champion, the best in the world today, regardless of the race level. Many of them love to race and compete and win, and we love to see them in all of their glory and pride. Magnificent animals with an unbelievable amount of talent, strength, and strong emotions. And it can be very scary out there so courage has to be an intregal part of the makeup of the great ones along with the will to win that you spoke of.

re: A Shot of Ascot

Criminal Type — Mon, 02 Jul 2012 23:26:35 GMT

Linda, the Sagamore team has given Millionreasonswhy the ultimate tribute by placing her resting place next to none other then Native Dancer. TT is saying she was spooked by a deer, threw the rider and ran into the rail.

re: A Shot of Ascot

JoyJackson21 — Mon, 02 Jul 2012 22:44:58 GMT

To Dr. Drukinbum, Linda in Texas and ksweatman9: Thank you for your kind words. They made my day. I have read your posts as well and I feel a kinship with you. I can see you are passionate about this sport and the noble horses that inhabit it as I am. I am new to this website forum and I try to speak what I feel is the truth. I'll Have Another and Black Caviar have inspired me and stirred me to my very soul this year and they have inspired me to speak up and say what is on my mind in print. Both of them have the attributes I absolutely love in a horse: great talent, great heart, tenacity, intelligence, a professional and calm manner, and an incredible will-to-win. They truly inspire me.

I will continue to post often on this forum, so I will be interacting with you often, and I look forward to doing so. It's nice to find a forum that is filled with like-minded people who are also respectful of each other's opinions. That's rare today.

Have a great day, each of you. I will talk to you again soon. - Joy

re: A Shot of Ascot

Criminal Type — Mon, 02 Jul 2012 15:40:40 GMT

Linda, I too am having a hard time with Millionreasonswhy..So freaking sad. I've been teary all day. I was at Sagamore on June 2 and got to watch some of their horses work, it was fabulous. I can only imagine how hard this is for everyone at the farm. So sorry for their loss.

Fair Hill on Thursday ! I can't wait ! Noticed Margano worked at FH yesterday. Wondering if the Jacksons have sent all their horses to the Delacourt barn ? I don't think Tagg trains there. Can't wait to see Union Rag's and Teeth of the Dog.

re: A Shot of Ascot

ksweatman9 — Mon, 02 Jul 2012 15:14:18 GMT

Thank you Karen, for the update on St. Trinians, I'm relieved, and Joy, a thank you goes out to you also. I'm aware we have "at risk" horses abroad. It's always on my mind. I'm aware that New York implemented a buy back clause for horses sold to foreign buyers, but I'm not certain about other states. I will try to stay optimistic. It's comforting to know that others care about the issue as well.

re: A Shot of Ascot

Linda in Texas — Mon, 02 Jul 2012 13:51:45 GMT

Dr. Drunkinbum, i second your comments to JoyJackson21, who sounds like she is coming from right up my track also.

And thank you Steve for always posting what some of us feel like writing. Not always on topic, but one never knows what will tweak us to write an off topic comment:

Onion Bagels - Horses being shipped to Japan. Lox. Azeri.Beautiful Farms. Japan. Ferdinand. Sweden. Exceller. No i won't forget and the latest I'll Have Another just digs it all up again.

And to Sagamore Farm's regarding Millionreasonswhy, go my regrets and sympathy in the untimely and deadly accident suffered by a brave filly. Here one minute, gone the next. May she rest in peace.

Off topic but certainly relevant

and deserving of mention.

Linda

re: A Shot of Ascot

Dr Drunkinbum — Mon, 02 Jul 2012 03:30:06 GMT

JoyJackson21

I thoroughly enjoyed your informative, insightful and brilliantly written comments. I hope to read more from you in the future. Thanks.

re: A Shot of Ascot

TerriZ — Mon, 02 Jul 2012 02:45:22 GMT

I would like to digress to Black Caviar and Franel who ran in Royal Ascot. Steve. has a special Eclipse award ever been awarded to a horse running outside the US? I think, if this the case, it would lovely if BC and Frankel could be recipients. Incidentally, BC's owners are NOT planning to sell but plan to keep her in Australia and breed her. I hope that there will be some nice stallions visiting Australia to mate with the Wonder From Down Under. It would be interesting who will be chosen.

re: A Shot of Ascot

Freetex — Sun, 01 Jul 2012 23:16:42 GMT

Strangely, I'm not sure why but its difficult to accept that I'll Have Another is going to Japan. He's not my horse. I didn't train him and I didn't work with him.

Yet, as a fan I am taking it very personal. Losing IHA to Japan really really hurts.

re: A Shot of Ascot

JoyJackson21 — Sun, 01 Jul 2012 22:15:36 GMT

To KSweatman9: It is my understanding that it is now standard procedure that Japanese breeders must swear contractually long before they purchase a North American horse, that once a horse they have purchased for breeding purposes has fulfilled their breeding commitment, they must promise to give the original owner the option to buy back the horse in question, and the fee to do so is not very high. That requirement was put in after what was discovered in the Ferdinand case. The horse industry put on their thinking caps and came up with this solution. The buy back clause is in the contract Bob and Beverly Lewis agreed to with Charismatic, and it is standard procedure today whenever a horse is sold for breeding to Japanese interests. That is why I have much more confidence that I'll Have Another will eventually return back to North America after he fulfills his breeding responsibilities to live out the rest of his life in comfort.

However, this contractual clause was not in use when War Emblem was sold to Japanese breeders, and War Emblem is very much in danger right now because he is very particular about the mares he mates with, and, therefore, he has sired many fewer horses than his new owners would have liked. He's not the only one, either. There are several other U.S. champions who are still on the bubble because they were sold to Japanese breeders before the buy back clause became standard business practice. So we all need to work to get these great champion horses back to the States. Japanese breeders seem to want to work with us in this manner, so we should be as diplomatic as possible with them to guarantee we can have our at-risk champions back on U.S. soil and will definitely be able to come home and live out their remaining days comfortably and happily.

re: A Shot of Ascot

JoyJackson21 — Sun, 01 Jul 2012 21:59:45 GMT

The conformation issue in the matter of I'll Have Another is just an excuse used by breeders in IHA's case. It's total b.s. If breeders are willing to pay to breed with Big Brown, who had many more well-documented physical troubles and ailments than I'll Have Another ever had, then they would have been willing to take the chance to breed their mares with I'll Have Another as well.

The real reason the breeders were not interested in I'll Have Another is they believed they could mate their mares with Flower Alley at the ultra-cheap price of $7,500 instead, whereas they would have had to mate their mares with I'll Have Another at a much, much more higher price because I'll Have Another is the 2012 Kentucky Derby and Preakness Stakes winner who is endowed with great speed and stamina in his background, as well as incredible heart, determination, and a fabulous will-to-win. They would rather take their chances that they would hit the jackpot with Flower Alley at $7,500 a pop, and, hopefully, come out with a horse of their own that is equally as talented as I'll Have Another.

As usual, when you get down to the real reason for things, it almost always comes down to money, and people giving in to their greed.

However, Three Chimneys Farm just put an enormous hole in the breeders's bargain basement breeding plans because Flower Alley's breeding price is now suddenly "Upon Request", meaning the going rate has soared through the stratisphere to mate with Flower Alley because Flower Alley is the sire of the incredibly talented and superior horse, I'll Have Another. So, the breeders that were looking to get something for almost nothing at a low, low bargain price will now not get the low, low bargain price they were counting on.

U.S. breeders could have been breeding their mares with the real deal, I'll Have Another, but they let the real deal get away from them to the very wise Japanese breeders because U.S. breeders were trying to get something for nothing. Now they are going to have to part with much more money anyway to try to obtain another I'll Have Another. Bad, bad move, U.S. breeders. You just shot yourselves in the foot again! Something you've done often the last 30 years or so, that's one of the reasons this sport has markedly declined and is now in such bad shape. Not only did the Japanese breeders show intelligence and business acumen in the IHA breeding deal, they showed an enormous far-sightedness as well, because they knew a $30 million investment in I'll Have Another has the huge possibility of making them an at least $500,000,000 profit, just as it did with Sunday Silence, whom I'll Have Another is very eerily very much like in characteristics. That same half billion dollar profit could have belonged to American breeders, but they were short-sighted and got giddy dreaming of keeping more money in their pockets in the short-term. Silly, regretable mistake.

Not seeing the value in a long-term plan when dealing in financial matters always comes back to bite people in the rear end.

re: A Shot of Ascot

Karen in Texas — Sun, 01 Jul 2012 14:51:12 GMT

ksweatman9----St. Trinians was sold in January to Sierra Farm for $80,000. Perhaps you can contact them to see how she's doing.

www.lanesend.com/.../keeneland-jan-12-hofaa

re: A Shot of Ascot

Slew — Sun, 01 Jul 2012 13:23:05 GMT

Criminal Type, you're correct. Hat Trick does now stand at Gainesway for $15k. But he was bred in Japan. So the Jockey Club carries the paper work from his breeding because they do the follow-up. Any TB exported or imported does have a lot of paperwork to file with the JC, so that their progress can be tracked.

As far as believing (because of Ferdinand) that IHA is safer in the US than in Japan...tell it to Alydar. Or perhaps, tell it to the Rasputin of horses, Phar Lap. Perhaps you believe Europe is safer...tell that to Exceller who met his fate in Sweden. The Exmoor ponies are disappearing in Great Britain. Chef Gordon Ramsay tried to re-introduce horse meat on English menus.

Unscrupulous people inhabit any corner of the earth. It's simply cultural myths and ignorance that cloud our judgement at times.

My point was that it is not fair to villify Reddam or the Japanese because IHA was sold to one of the most beautiful breeding farms in Japan.

re: A Shot of Ascot

an ole railbird — Sun, 01 Jul 2012 12:55:55 GMT

steve my compliments again, only this is double the compilments. i compilment you on a will written articule about the royal ascot race meet. & i compilment you on being an even tempered& understanding person. in that department you are a better man than i. i am talking about the people who blog off subject of the articule. & turn your blog into a place to whine & piss & moan, because " ill have another" went to japan. there were a few comments on the well written story of the ascot races, then "boom", we are off subject. its not enough to vioce displeasure about iha. but then everyone has to put their 2 cents in about ferdinan ,again, &again.

grow up people, walt disney did not write the scripts of life. life is neither a storybook nor a movie.

once again, steve, keep up the good work .

enough said " an ole railbird".

re: A Shot of Ascot

Criminal Type — Sat, 30 Jun 2012 22:36:02 GMT

Slew, I think your mistaken about Hat Trick. He is a JPN bred, but he is standing at Gainesway in Kentucky for 15K last I heard.

re: A Shot of Ascot

Matthew W — Sat, 30 Jun 2012 21:32:58 GMT

I've seen every Preakness since '71 (on tv), and regarding I'll Have Another's running down Bodemiester in the last 3/8: maybe Secretariat, Spectacular Bid and Unbridled could do that--MAYBE! Fact is, few, very few horses could have done that--Bode was home free and 'Nuther got him, he was every bit a really good colt, and he wins that Belmont by ten! I'll Have Another got the Derby, and took the Preakness--but, oh baby, he was made for the Belmont!

re: A Shot of Ascot

Karen in Texas — Sat, 30 Jun 2012 17:56:29 GMT

As I said in my last post, here is a database (and there may be others) that shows stallions being pensioned in Japan, buy-back clauses being attached, stallions being returned to the U.S. for retirement at Old Friends or for duty elsewhere, etc.

www.whitehorseproductions.com/database1.html

re: A Shot of Ascot

Karen in Texas — Sat, 30 Jun 2012 17:42:39 GMT

Slew----Yes, I actually did check out the Big Red Farm site over a week ago, and found it to be user-friendly for Americans. I thought the photos and the video did depict a lush setting, as you said, with undulating hills similar to (dare I say) Fair Hill.

Ferdinand's story was outrageous to most people in the U.S., but in his death he created changes for stallions coming after him. Truly, most contracts now have buy-back, anti-slaughter, or pensioning clauses. And, as I have now mentioned three times on these blogs, Michael Blowen is tracking all American stallions with the help of an agent at Narvick International Japan. The link to that info is on the Viva Big Red blog. By the way, for those who have said no stallions are ever pensioned in Japan--that all go to slaughter--you are incorrect.

I am going to try to link the Big Red Farm site here, and will find a link to verify the pensioning of various stallions recently in Japan.

www.bigredfarm.jp/e_index.html

re: A Shot of Ascot

ksweatman9 — Sat, 30 Jun 2012 17:40:24 GMT

I have no doubt that the Big Red farms are "beautiful", and I'm not foolish enough to think that the horses are neglected. They are investments, large investments, ofcoarse they are well cared for. My concern is for the horses who are no longer productive due to illness or old age. Unless there has been a new revolution that I'm not aware of, the Japanese don't retire their "investments". No horse deserves to draw their last breath in a slaughter house, and for a horse like I'll Have Another, it's unforgivable. If foreign investors would provide safe passage back to the states after the horse was no longer of use to them and contribute to their retirement, it wouldn't be such a bitter pill to swallow. On the subject of retirement, does anyone know what happened to St. Trinians? The last I heard about the gallant little mare, she was slated to be sold. She's been in my thoughts a long time, and I'd like to know if she settled in a new home and how she's doing.

re: A Shot of Ascot

Sam Not Spam — Sat, 30 Jun 2012 16:39:38 GMT

Slew, you say that but didn't he have issues late last year/early this, needing ultrasound? And who's to say that confirmation issues can't make a horse more prone to tendonitis? I'm just pointing out that maybe there should be more selectiveness in horses used for breeding, and a horse that's had issues of any sort at both 2 and 3 represents a gamble for breeders.

re: A Shot of Ascot

Alex'sBigFan — Fri, 29 Jun 2012 23:18:49 GMT

MZ et al,

Great idea.....hmmmm.....van across the Pacific? Ok, guys, here's what we do! We hire a special plane, recruit some of our prettiest young fillies like Havre, Blind Luck, Royal Delta, and Plum Pretty because, after all, they are just plum pretties! Ok, we disguise them as "Geisha girls" and send them on a mission to go get IHA back!!!!! IHA willingly goes with them, singing, "I think I'm turning Japanese, I think I'm turning Japanese, I really think so." (Or however that song goes.) And voila, IHA is back in the USA and we hide him where????? In Fran's backyard!!!!!!!! (I know it is reserved for Alex for an emergency, but this is one)!

It is 100 degrees in NJ, the heat has got me!!!!!! But the Geisha girl thing was my 78 year old neighbor's idea, she loves IHA and doesn't like him going to Japan either. Happy weekend everyone!

re: A Shot of Ascot

Slew — Fri, 29 Jun 2012 23:03:40 GMT

It seems there is a whirling furor over the sale of IHA.

Has anyone actually gone on line to check out Big Red Farms where he will stand? It's absolutely gorgeous. Sure looks a lot like Kentucky's finest.

And you might want to check out just how many US bred stallions are standing stud duty in Japan.

Roses In May, Came Home, Empire Maker, Aldebaran, Charismatic, Johannesburg, Stravinsky, Boston Harbor, Silver Charm are just a few. The Japanese stables are on line, and the winning progeny are listed. Just check out the Japan Bloodhorse Breeders' Association to stay in touch with any of your favorites.

I realize the fate of Ferdinand still weighs heavily on people's minds. But times have changed, and Grade 1 winners do have contract clauses that protect them. And the Jockey Club is often able to follow them in case any progeny come to the US, such as Howe Great..because Hat Trick still stands in Japan.

And some want to believe that Japan is the only country that eats horse meat. Guess what...so does half of Europe, Asia and South America. Not pleasant to think about, but a fact, nonetheless.

My point is that the sale of I'll Have Another has stirred up a xenophobic furor, and Mr. Reddam is the whipping boy. It doesn't seem fair to the owner or the Japanese. It's a myopic point of view.

re: A Shot of Ascot

Criminal Type — Fri, 29 Jun 2012 22:23:54 GMT

Linda, Very funny about the eggplant.

Alex, I too love Hard Spun and so glad he is doing well at stud. I never really had much doubt that he would. Don't forget that along with the American roster of stallions at Darley, they have 4 or 5 other stallion facilities around the world, including Japan. They own some superior bloodstock, but of course that was Sheik Mohammad's intention, wasn't it?

Slew, I too can't wait to see what we get from Lonhro. I like his look.

re: A Shot of Ascot

Slew — Fri, 29 Jun 2012 22:09:27 GMT

Sam: I'll Have Another did not retire unsound. He has the start of tendonitis. It will heal..just not well enough to allow him to race. That's like saying anyone with "tennis elbow" should not have children.

It's not a genetic problem, and has no bearing on the health of progeny.