Ky. Derby Trail: Flashback to Greatness

re: Ky. Derby Trail: Flashback to Greatness

Curt44 — Tue, 11 Aug 2009 23:56:41 GMT

The "Slewster" was in my humble opinion, the greatest of all time. Bar nobody. & to Matthew W. above, How could the 'Bid sweep the Slew, when Affirmed whooped the Bid, & the "Slew" demolished Affirmed 2 X's ? If the "Slew" hadn't become deathly ill, I'm afraid he would have been not only, the only undefeated TC winner of all time, but defeated never.

re: Ky. Derby Trail: Flashback to Greatness

Bay Meadows — Thu, 29 Jan 2009 22:56:40 GMT

Steve, I just read your Derby Dozen Preview where you listed 70 horses and 4 maidens to watch. I was very surprised that Taqarub was not mentioned. Do you have any thoughts on him? Three for three lifetime and the Inner Track record at Aqueduct is not to shabby. I realize there may have been questionable competition, but he has blown them away when asked.

re: Ky. Derby Trail: Flashback to Greatness

Matthew W — Thu, 29 Jan 2009 09:41:40 GMT

I think Citation beat the champion older horse in Feb of his 3yo year!

re: Ky. Derby Trail: Flashback to Greatness

Charlie — Thu, 29 Jan 2009 01:39:22 GMT

Back to Citation for a jif, enroute to his Triple Crown sweep, he stopped off and won the Jersey Derby (the Jersey Stake then I think) at Garden State between the Preakness and Belmont.

re: Ky. Derby Trail: Flashback to Greatness

Abbie Knowles — Thu, 29 Jan 2009 01:36:25 GMT

The saddest thing about Exceller was not that he did not get the 1978 Eclipse award but that he ended up in a slaughterhouse. How cruel an end is that for such a great champion? More needs to be done to stop this terrible thing from happening and Fairmount's lead should be followed!!!!!!

Anyone read Richard Stone Reeves and Patrick Robinson's book Decade of Champion's? Exceller is movingly depicted in that, as are all the greats of the 70's featured. A truly awesome book! Fabulous paintings by a master and beautifully written! One of my treasures!

God Bless

Best wishes

Abbie

re: Ky. Derby Trail: Flashback to Greatness

Wanda — Wed, 28 Jan 2009 21:56:18 GMT

Hey Monica V how are you girl? Nice to hear from you. I agree with you that the gene pool is to small. we don't support outcrosses like we should.

re: Ky. Derby Trail: Flashback to Greatness

MIKE RELVA — Wed, 28 Jan 2009 21:55:08 GMT

To Monica:

I couldn't have said it better. Today's racehorse simply and I repeat simply cannot withstand an overload race schedule. Individuals' on this blog that state racehorses are too soft obviously doesn't connect the dots. Horses aren't machines,they are flesh and bone! I own three that race in Fla. as a hobby,not a source of income and I can tell you I make a very high priority to ensure they are lightly raced,five or six races a year,tops. You make a good point.

re: Ky. Derby Trail: Flashback to Greatness

Monica V — Wed, 28 Jan 2009 20:30:11 GMT

2 Time Valley Player of the Year,

This is my opinion, right or wrong.

With each passing decade, the breed gets a little more fragile, partly because we breed for speed and because the gene pool is too small. All thoroughbreds are descended from only 3 stallions so for over 200 years that's it. The breed certainly hasn't gotten stronger. They are not running any faster and we have a lot of breakdowns that could be attributed to other reasons but we just don't have the "iron horses" we used to have.

re: Ky. Derby Trail: Flashback to Greatness

2 time valley player of the year — Wed, 28 Jan 2009 19:52:34 GMT

I stand corrected,Kelso was 5 time horse of the year from 1960-1964,ran 63 times in his career, won 39 races in the money 84% of the time carried 130 lbs 24 times, won 13 nobody would race against him unless they had a big weight advantage, won 5 consecutive jockey gold cups,3 consecutive woodwards, 3 whitney's and new york's handicapping triple crown carrying over 130 lbs each race.won 3 yr old horse of the year even though he didn't start his 3 year campaign until after the belmont won 8 of 9 stakes.Carl Hanford was his trianer thru his career -he had this horse prepared and in top racing form -do you think he knew something about training that today's trainers don't? As I said before today's horses are too soft!

re: Ky. Derby Trail: Flashback to Greatness

2 time valley player of the year — Wed, 28 Jan 2009 19:12:15 GMT

reply to Mike R. Citation's record that 3 yr old season shows what a great horse he was and so physically fit because of the way he was trained, the point I was making is that the trainers in the past had the horses better prepared then those of today. 4 time horse of the year Kelso ran 64 times in his career and as a handicapper carried up to 142 lbs, do you think any of these trainers would ever run a horse with those weights , no they complain and scratch out if a horse is assigned anything over 127 lbs.Dr Fager set [at that time] the world record for a mile carrying 135 lbs!!!.Today's horses are too soft because of the training style .Are you old enough to remember the likes of Dr Fager ,John Henry, Damascus, Buckpasser who ran often and won.They were prepared not pampered!

re: Ky. Derby Trail: Flashback to Greatness

KatintheHat — Wed, 28 Jan 2009 03:24:48 GMT

Wasn't the Woodward the race that Riva Ridge was suppose to run in? And they dropped Secretariat in instead at the last minute because the track was sloppy (RR didn't do mud)? If I remember correctly, Secretariat wasn't "up" for the race (besides the last minute issue) for another reason. Mr. Haskin had a blog about this a while back. I seem to remember that Prove Out was a pretty good horse. . .

re: Ky. Derby Trail: Flashback to Greatness

MIKE RELVA — Wed, 28 Jan 2009 02:25:15 GMT

HEY 2 TIME VALLEY PLAYER OF THEYEAR

HERE IS THE MILLION DOLLAR QUESTION. DO YOU THINK FOR ONE SECOND THAT TODAY'S HORSES ARE LIKE ONE'S OF THE PAST? GIVE ME A BREAK. NO HORSE TODAY CAN HOLD UP TO A TWENTY A YEAR RACE SCHEDULE,NOR SHOULD THEY HAVE TO!

re: Ky. Derby Trail: Flashback to Greatness

Billy D. — Wed, 28 Jan 2009 01:26:25 GMT

In response to "Whatever," I guess he never saw the '73 running of the Woodward, where Big Red had no excuse. Big Red also lost five times to 'Slew's' three, albeit one was a disqualification (Champagne) and in two races he ran sick or injured. Even Big Red didn't win the TC undefeated. Which leads me to reason how good Exceller must've been! I still think Exceller got robbed out of an Eclipse award in '78.

re: Ky. Derby Trail: Flashback to Greatness

2 time valley player of the year — Mon, 26 Jan 2009 23:32:32 GMT

Triple crown winner Citation ran 20 times at 3 and won 19 races and finished second the other race. These trainers treat the horses nowadays as babies wusses, check the amount of races all past triple crown winners had and you'll see they all raced a lot not like the phony routines that the trainers are using now.See the amount of time off between races Citation had his banner year.Past champions had endurance and experience!

re: Ky. Derby Trail: Flashback to Greatness

mike williams — Mon, 26 Jan 2009 22:47:04 GMT

These are all great horses, but Secretariat will always be the greatest.Why? He won at every distance,and was unbeatable on turf.The crowning achievement of his career was winning the Canadian International Championship under Eddie Maple on the Marshall turf course, turned into a blog, at 1 5/8 miles. He overcame a huge lead set by Kennedy Road and won going away.This race was a test of stamina and endurance and he surpassed all expectations.None of the other champions mentioned accomplished this.

re: Ky. Derby Trail: Flashback to Greatness

Kat — Mon, 26 Jan 2009 21:31:56 GMT

It wasn't just the Arkansas Derby. These comments sent me back to U-tube to enjoy AA's Preakness and Belmont victories. There was no reason (relative to the race. . .) for AA to take the punishment he did done the stretch.

Grrr.....

What a horse!

re: Ky. Derby Trail: Flashback to Greatness

da3hoss — Mon, 26 Jan 2009 20:08:40 GMT

That is something I did not know about AA, thanks Steve. PS I SO AGREE about JR in Arkansas Derby.

There's always a story to tell about the greatest of races & horses...I remember Sham...I really liked that horse, one of only 3 to run the Kentucky Derby in under 2 minutes...if it had not been for him would Secretariat have been pushed to run as he did that day? It's not widely known that Sham had ripped two teeth out of his mouth in the starting gate, and bled the whole race. Even still, he finished with a time of 1:59 4/5.

I will never forget that Belmont as I watched LP whip Sham to the point I could not watch anymore and I actually did not watch Secretariat win until just a couple of years ago, I could not bear to see a champion like Sham broken like that in a race no horse could have run like Secretariat did that day.

He never raced again due to a hairline fracture discovered in July.

Secretariats heart has been estimated to weigh 22 lbs, considered largest ever...Sham's was estimated to be 18 lbs, one of the largest, if not second only to Secretariat...again.

re: Ky. Derby Trail: Flashback to Greatness

TerriV — Mon, 26 Jan 2009 13:47:23 GMT

Really great food for thought, Steve. Your take on things just always makes such good sense. Makes you wonder why anyone could look at it any differently. Of course, when you start training after the winter break, it's only common sense to start out shorter and build up. I'd love it if you would keep us up to date on which trainers are doing what - a post season comparison would be really fascinating. As always, you have opened my eyes - thank you.

re: Ky. Derby Trail: Flashback to Greatness

Matthew W — Mon, 26 Jan 2009 09:05:38 GMT

The thing is you can't compare Seattle Slew to Secretariat as a racehorse....AND you can't compare Secretariat to Seattle Slew as a sire! I think in a best of seven 'Bid sweeps Slew and takes Big Red 4-2.....

re: Ky. Derby Trail: Flashback to Greatness

Matthew W — Mon, 26 Jan 2009 08:57:09 GMT

It took him a lot of races to finally put it all together, but Tiznow's last four races as a three year old were HUGE---three were vs older the other was his Super Derby romp in fast time! His Big Cap at four was a tour'de'force---he went wrong...came back in Fall...and up against it he beat them all again....that was a tough, GOOD horse...

re: Ky. Derby Trail: Flashback to Greatness

Rita — Mon, 26 Jan 2009 00:14:50 GMT

Abbie K.You are right to say Seattle Slew was a great horse. The 70's brought us many great ones in fact I think one of the best decades of racing horses.But I will tell you one thing Secretariat was one of the most beautiful horses ever that lived on this earth! I have pictures of him in the pastures and you can see every muscle in his legs,shoulders and every part of his body beautiful red mane and tail flowing as he run. He knew he was a beauty and everyone else with good vision could see that to.The 70's gave us 3 triple crown winners and I loved them all.

re: Ky. Derby Trail: Flashback to Greatness

GunBow — Sun, 25 Jan 2009 06:32:38 GMT

Free House, although not a winner of a Triple Crown race (3rd Derby + Belmont, 2nd Preakness) had won the 8.5 furlong Norfolk Stakes at 2 before debuting at 3 in the 7 furlong San Vicente. Free House ran 2nd in the San Vicente, beaten by another horse making his seasonal debut, Silver Charm. Silver Charm doesn't fit your criteria, given that he didn't run 2 turns at 2, but he had won the Del Mar Futurity the year before. Baffert choose to bring him up to the Derby starting with a 7 furlong race before stretching him out to 8.5 and then 9 furlongs. Both Silver Charm and Free House would go on to have outstanding Triple Crown campaigns and continue to win big races until the age of 5.

As for Afleet Alex, I would take him over any other 3 year old to have raced this decade, with the possible exception of Point Given. I really think that, with his tactical speed and insane acceleration, he was better than Smarty, Barbaro, Bernardini, War Emblem, Funny Cide, Empire Maker, Street Sense, and Big Brown. I have a little trouble comparing him to Tiznow and Curlin because those two reached their peak at the end of the year while Alex didn't get to race after June.

re: Ky. Derby Trail: Flashback to Greatness

Matthew W — Sun, 25 Jan 2009 03:25:42 GMT

Bid started his four year old season at 7 fur too...having previously run at 1 1/2 mi on dirt, he was a bit slow to settle...then he ran lights out in last 1/8...7 fur is the perfect tuneup for a distance horse...really don't know why they don't go that way anymore....

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russell maiers — Sun, 25 Jan 2009 00:58:04 GMT

Steve, Wow, I knew about the Rebel, I was one who did not know about the infection during the Derby or showing up after. Thanks for the information! I still enjoy watching his Belmont. Unbelievable cruising speed before being asked. Then, well you know. I have to agree about the Arkansas analysis, I just didn't understand the finish. I will have to gather my thoughts on the new information. I am astounded!

re: Ky. Derby Trail: Flashback to Greatness

Steve Haskin — Sat, 24 Jan 2009 22:30:55 GMT

Russell, I'll tell you something about Alex's Derby not many people know about, if any. He came out of the race with a lung infection -- 3 on a scale of 5. The reason they didnt say anything was because he had a lung infection after the Rebel, in which he was last, and they didnt want to sound like they were making the same excuses for him. Remember they got criticized after the Rebel for bringing him back in the Arkansas Derby. On his day, those horses were not in the same league as him. He should have won the Derby for fun. And he still might have had Jeremy Rose not whipped him continuously with a big lead in the Arkansas Derby. If he had wrapped up on him like he should have, and saved something instead of pushing him to win by 8 lengths, I really think he would have won the Derby anyway. He was a much better horse than people think.