Defending America

re: Defending America

Juho Isoviita — Thu, 15 Nov 2012 17:32:24 GMT

"The talent has been there, but the soundness hasn’t."

That is because horses in US are raised on hormones for muscles and raced on drugs for speed!

Not much with true horse racing to do. Just for earning a quick buck and at the same time making US thoroughbreds something that makes me sick.

And racing on dirt says it all. Dirty business, not racing at all.

re: Defending America

Juho Isoviita — Thu, 15 Nov 2012 16:55:17 GMT

There is no reason to compare European racing on turf vs US racing on dirt.

European racing is like classical music vs US heavy drug user rock and roll!

re: Defending America

Ranagulzion — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 18:03:55 GMT

Age of Reason,

Unlike you, I know when its futile to oppose the chalk. Also, Wise Dan will not be hounded by Obviously. The latter is a front runner while Wise Dan can stalk or come from well off the pace if necessary.

Its time to put the Union Rags matter to rest. We all know about his misfortune, the "cajun double-team sabotage" by Borel and Desormeaux, in the Derby. I touted him for the Triple Crown but I didn't say he was a lock. The Triple crown is hardly ever a lock for any horse and I certainly never included the term in my forcasts. The horses that came closest to looking like Triple Crown locks were Big Brown and Eskendereya and we know the history.

Good luck with trying to beat Wise Dan in the BC Mile my friend.

re: Defending America

Age of Reason — Wed, 24 Oct 2012 21:23:35 GMT

Ranag, my dear chalk-eating friend, if Wise Dan does indeed win the Mile (I'd place it at 'round 3-1), would he be as much of a lock for HOY as Union Rags was for the Triple Crown back in the spring? ;) But seriously, my reservation about Wise Dan is that I'm far from convinced he has the high cruising speed necessary to cope with what will surely be a frenetic pace in this year's Mile. How will he react when hounded by Obviously through three-quarters in 1:09 or faster?

re: Defending America

JerseyBoy — Wed, 24 Oct 2012 20:37:57 GMT

Steve:

Just in case you have not closed this blog, here are two recent American-bred superstars who got overlooked-Henrythenavigator and Raven's Pass.

re: Defending America

Ranagulzion — Wed, 24 Oct 2012 17:00:45 GMT

Age of Reason,

I agree that the BC Mile is one of the major attractions of this year's Breeder's Cup but not because it is going to be that close. I believe that Wise Dan is the star attraction. Excelebration adds intrigue and Obviously is the one to finish a non-threatening runner-up IMO. After this performance Wise Dan should be a sho-in for the HOTY.

re: Defending America

Ranagulzion — Tue, 23 Oct 2012 22:45:54 GMT

Coldfacts,

I took a while to respond but welcome back buddy.

Quality Road, Uncle Mo and Union Rags are some of the most talented runners we've seen in recent years but did not get to enjoy as much because of careers abbreviated or punctuated by injury. Of the three monsters named above Quality Road had the greatest scope to be the next Spectacular Bid. He was lightening fast and could carry that speed when fully fit. His last race was a very unfortunate anti-climax (the BCC won by Blame). I think that if he had not sufferred ill-treatment at the gates in the 2009 BCC, his legacy might have been very different, as well as "Queen" Zenyatta's (he could have beaten her) but thats just my opinion.

Repole should've raced Uncle Mo as a 4YO. It was a great injustice to retire that super-talented colt so early. I was extremely disappointed with that move. It hurt the horse' reputation.

As for Union Rags, I think that his Belmont Stakes win was sweet redemption when considering all the skepticism surrounding the stamina aspect of his pedigree. He too should have been rested and brought back as a 4YO to vindicate his obvious class.

Coldfacts, the story of the above horses tell the tale of American racing. Its a lot of frustration for the racing purist, making it very difficult for one such as I to defend American breeders.

Its time to star looking seriously at the 2YOs with a view to spotting next season's leading classic aspirants. So far we lost Spurious Precision but I do like the million dollar son of Big Brown named Darwin as well as Repole's Dixie Union colt Overanalyzed. I look forward to rumbling with you again on Steve Haskin's Derby trail.

BTW Wise Dan is a soup for the BC Mile. I expect it to be a romp.

re: Defending America

Age of Reason — Mon, 22 Oct 2012 17:12:09 GMT

Coldfacts,

I am, by nature, a too-serious person. I tend to take everything seriously and at face value; I get verbal humor as well as the next person, but when I see things in writing such as comments on these BloodHorse blogs it seldom occurs to me, unless their humor is very plain, that the commenter isn't being as serious as the proverbial heart attack. That's why I think the emoticons of text-speak are a very handy thing in getting the point across. =) ;) Frankly, I shouldn't have butted in on what you said at all; I remember now that you and Ranagulzion are longtime friends and love to have friendly disagreements, so I apologize for taking your ribbing out of context. At the end of the day, you aren't commenting to please me; if I take issue with something you said, to you-know-where with Age of Reason; just speak what's on your mind. =D

re: Defending America

Coldfacts — Mon, 22 Oct 2012 14:31:31 GMT

Age Of Reason,

I was only humoring my associate. Every horse he classified as being a monster ends up being a flop in its subsequent race.

Even my attempt at humor ends up being displeasing. I just cannot win.

Russian Greek was never a colt I fancied. I merely commented on him at the request of a contributor. The records will reflect that he never fearured in my top five. I do believe you have the wrong contributor.

While I no longer make regular posts to Mr. Haskin's Blogs, I read most and I have come realization that my nonsense has no place in such a forum.

re: Defending America

Linda in Texas — Mon, 22 Oct 2012 01:39:41 GMT

Lazmanick - Thank you for your kind and thoughtful words.It is never easy to lose a companion that has been at your side for 11 years eventhough she was only 1 of

many. They are all special in their own ways.

I will miss her as you still do your best friend.

Many here have lost a pet and i think of them also. Bless them all.

Thank you Steve.

Linda

re: Defending America

Alydar — Sun, 21 Oct 2012 14:05:51 GMT

For me is almost imposible to compare the american and european thoroughbred industries. The differences between them are bigger than the similarities. Europe has a different context, so is an adventure to compare horses from that side of the land to the ones from America. For me is irresponsible. About the superstars, well they have enjoyed the wonderful ocation to see recently, in less than a decade, exceptional horses and mares, like Sea the Star, Frankel, Goldikova and Zarkova. Yes, superstars, but mainly there, in Europe. Only Goldikova gained the status of international superstar after two Breeders Cup triumphs. And hey, i don´t pretend to be chauvinistic, because i am not from USA; in fact, i live in Venezuela, where i admire the horses from both sides of the world. For me to transcend to the status of international superstar, the horse or the mare has to prove it in an international camp. Many european superstars have failed to do it in America, like Dancing Brave or Galileo. And the same apply to the american superstars that NEVER try to prove it in Europe. So, for me is also a risk to say today that Frankel is the best horse ever in Europe, and much much less that he es the best horse ever in the world. Yes, millions in America, Japan, Australia or Argentine must desagree, and justifiable, because behind him there are a huge list of superstars, legends that deserve respect. Even in Europe, how you forget exceptional, wonderful horses like Sea Bird, Nijinsky, Brigadier Gerard, Mill Reef and many others. Come on!

re: Defending America

JerseyBoy — Sun, 21 Oct 2012 14:05:41 GMT

Not to beat a dead horse, but on the Timeform All-Time Highweights List, there are three horses who won the Prix de l’Arc twice- Tantieme and the Italian, Ribot. The third? It is the American, Alleged, the forgotten great.

For those who care about what could happen if a top American “dirt” horse switches to grass in Europe, see Hill Rise in Wikipedia.

en.wikipedia.org/.../Hill_Rise

re: Defending America

LAZMANICK — Sun, 21 Oct 2012 06:45:05 GMT

Midnight Lute:

That’s it? That list of top money races in Europe that you so painstakingly listed? Woodbine has more million dollar races (4) than your entire list. A three year old Canadian Bred that can’t even win a US G3 race can win more than many European horses can in a season just by competing in their Triple Crown restricted to Canadian breds. This comment isn’t meant to disparage the Canadian bred competing in its own country. It’s to show that the opportunity to win money is far great and often easier in N/A than it is in Europe, which is another reason why American horses don’t ship overseas, that and the fact that the preferred surface here is dirt, not turf.

re: Defending America

LAZMANICK — Sun, 21 Oct 2012 04:42:08 GMT

Linda in Texas

I share your pain. I'm sure that your beloved Nellie will never be forgotten. A few years back I lost my best friend to cancer. He was a German shorthair, white with black spots and a large Mickey-Mouse ears type saddle. Brought him home when he was 8 weeks old and lifted him onto the table in the back room of our vet when he was 14. Like many animals, he taught me more than humans ever could becauswe everything about him was unconditional. It takes a while to get over them when they go because we have them for so short a period of time, but their memories last forever and make our lives much better. Keep your chin up.

re: Defending America

Arts and Letters — Sun, 21 Oct 2012 04:07:17 GMT

A small aside -- given this recent discussion and debates, I just read something very ironic. I recently found a Blood Horse magazine from November 24, 1934 (with a lovely photo of Discovery on the cover). In it, there’s an article called “The Distance of Races”, which compares the distance of American races unfavourably to British ones. Apparently, in 1934 in Britain, “less than a third of the races for 3 year olds and older horses are at less than a mile, that there are more races at a mile and a half than a mile and a quarter, and that approximately one in every eight races for older horses is at a distance greater than a mile and a half”.

The article goes on to say:

“...in America we have followed the line of least resistance so long that it is an extremely difficult matter either to breed or train stayers, and it is even more difficult to find an opportunity to race them. It has come to such a pass that we not only have destroyed distance racing, but are now trying to persuade ourselves that it was a good thing to do...Some able commentators have even advocated that we ought to increase the opportunities for sprinters, because we have so many of them.”

It goes on to accuse American racing of lacking the “backbone” to change this.

Wow! So, if they were worried about the lack of distance racing in 1934, I can only imagine what they would have thought of today.

re: Defending America

Age of Reason — Sun, 21 Oct 2012 02:34:29 GMT

Bravo, Linda in Texas!

My thoughts exactly, Footlick.

re: Defending America

Mike Relva — Sun, 21 Oct 2012 02:03:56 GMT

Midnight Lute

Always admired Frankel from the beginning to the end. Sounds like you're the one with the problem of hating horses, or one in particular.

re: Defending America

Davids — Sat, 20 Oct 2012 20:22:49 GMT

Steve, I read A. B.'s column and bristled a bit at first, then, contemplating the projection of his intent which may be - a platform by which the removal of race day medication can be achieved - I resigned myself to, so be it.

On reading your piece, and, being a racing an 'Internationalist' like yourself, I find this "Best Horse Ever" rather tiresome.

In the UK, and to lesser degree Australia, horse racing is covered by the prime television broadcasters and press - for a horse racing fan its wonderful. Moreover, handicapping, betting on horse racing is a national pastime.

Unfortunately, in the USA there is a decline in horse racing and coverage is by the boutique, niche broadcasters- apart from the Triple Crown. How to save the ship is the big question.

As dalcross mentioned above, marketing a major enterprise like horse racing in the UK is going to involve a lot of hyperbole. Over the years, it seems that nearly every horse that wins the English Derby is the best ever.

In more recent times the marketing, promotion of, the 'best ever' has had to include the world. We now have the International Ratings to support the marketing - the horses that lead these ratings are inevitably European horses running, running in Europe, and on turf, with a sprinkling of US horses just to confirm that the UK horses are 'world beaters.'

Anyone with the slightest knowledge of dirt and turf racing know that, generally, dirt horses don't perform optimally on grass and the same can be said of grass to dirt horses. Vive la différence!!

Frankal won his final race, Sir Henry Cecil, a charismatic figure of English racing stated: “I’d be very surprised if there’s ever been better.” He was obviously comparing Sea Bird, Ribot to his champion, not Dr. Fager, Seattle Slew et al

re: Defending America

Footlick — Sat, 20 Oct 2012 19:38:17 GMT

AoR- it looked pretty easy to me.

re: Defending America

PNkt — Sat, 20 Oct 2012 18:29:53 GMT

Home from an amazing day at Ascot. Just wow! I've never heard a crowd like it!

For those saying the European horses are loaded with American bloodlines, I'd point out that Northern Dancer himself is loaded with British and Italian bloodlines. If we want to go all the way back, every Thoroughbred is actually British bred!

All that aside, Frankel was amazing today and though its sad to see him retire, roll on 2016 and his first runners!

re: Defending America

Linda in Texas — Sat, 20 Oct 2012 18:23:06 GMT

I missed this article, was playing hospice to my 13 year old Nellie who was a throw away at my gate, had her for 11 years. Timid, kind, brave til the end. Cancer. That awful word has taken every family member but 2, my son and me. And 6 other pets as well.

But i think i reserve that Noun to an Adjective for the likes of the poster whose name starts with a D.

I will simply second Paula and

Lazmanick and good Dr. Drunkinbum

in their responses.

I write this after Frankel won his 14th. Great horse, great country,

great everything. Congratulations

Frankel, owners, caregivers and jockey. And i bet Bobby Frankel is

smiling the broadest.

Long Live Thoroughbred Horse Racing no matter the country of

origin or pedigree. Nothing more beautiful than when all things come together for any winning horse

on any continent and on any course.

Thank you, Steve.

re: Defending America

Wrensflight — Sat, 20 Oct 2012 17:47:40 GMT

Congrats to Frankel! An outstanding star who has given all of us so many exciting moments. Best of luck to him in his future career at stud.

re: Defending America

Age of Reason — Sat, 20 Oct 2012 17:17:17 GMT

Midnight Lute,

No one "hates" Frankel. That kind of empty rhetoric, where you accuse someone of "hating" something merely because they view it differently than you, belongs in the political arena if it is to be tolerated at all--and I believe that Mr. Haskin has made it abundantly clear this is not a political forum. Also, while Frankel's length-and-change win was very professional, it was hardly "making mince meat" of Cirrus Des Aigles et al; the making of mince meat is what happened to Excelebration back in the Queen Anne.

Coldfacts--The Breeders Cup and impending Triple Crown '13 Trail are upon us, so I suspected you would come out of hibernation eventually. You could have made a much more grand re-entry to BloodHorse's blogs by stating some of your own opinions instead of booing someone else's. We've all been wrong before about predicting how good a horse will turn out to be; speaking of which, wasn't Russian Greek your biggest hype on the Derby trail earlier this year?

re: Defending America

Wrensflight — Sat, 20 Oct 2012 16:45:22 GMT

Wow, Steve, you certainly stirred things up with this post. Well done! My concern with the American-bred Thoroughbreds is the overwhelming number of soundness issues that have cut short so many promising careers. I don't recall that being an issue in the 50's, 60's, and 70's. I agree with the individuals who commented on the fact that breeders here don't seem to be focusing on soundness and stamina, which, I believe, has been very detrimental to the breed.

Regardless, there are great horses everywhere, and it's difficult to compare horses that are trained to run so differently on different types of tracks and surfaces.

I can't disagree more with the posters who belittled Tiznow's win in the 2001 Breeder's Cup Classic. That was a sensational race and a brilliant, gutsy win. And, in my opinion, Secretariat is incomparable. But if there is any criticism to be offered regarding our American Thoroughbreds, it isn't due to lack of talent but rather because of the unwise breeding practices that have become so prevalent.

re: Defending America

Coldfacts — Sat, 20 Oct 2012 16:25:09 GMT

Ranagulzion,

What do the following horses have in common?

Quality Road

Union Rags

Uncle Mo

They were all clasified as being monsters by you. Wise Dan can therefore be eliminated from the top spot in the BC Mile. I wonder if Point Of Entry is also a monster?