Farewell, Frankel

re: Farewell, Frankel

Slew — Sun, 28 Oct 2012 14:02:51 GMT

Footlick and Greg R.: No point in arguments. I think Greg R feels much the same as I do about retiring any 3 year old, and that holds for Bernardini and Sea The Stars too. What will we not get to see?

At least Frankel ran at 4.

Danedream came back at 4 but has not shown quite the same magic as the Arc. While she may have had a weight break in the Arc, and a compact surface, she shattered the record, and almost matched Secretariat's Belmont time...which he did at 3.

But don't we just adore those 3 year old champions who come back at 4...and create their legends...with Seattle Slew as a great example. What about Curlin?

Goldikova?

Face it...we love come-back kids, and we root for them. Was anyone not cheering for Take Carge Indy yesterday? He tried...and isn't that what we respect?

Now I have to run and unwelcome Hurricane Sandy. Stay safe, folks!

re: Farewell, Frankel

Footlick — Fri, 26 Oct 2012 17:20:07 GMT

So you feel it is fair to compare a horse's two and three year old record to other horse's records as older horses? Interesting. And as far as the Aga Khan's retiring them to "protect" their records, he has never said that but he has said when they accomplish wht he wants them to he wants them at stud or in his brood are band. He believes in young bloodstock. But you are right, you are allowed to say whatever you want and criticize whatever you want. As am I. As far as age being irrelevant, it is never irrelevant. The weight break is there for a reason and I don't know any country that doesn't utilize it. We obviously are going to differ,so this will be my last comment on it.

re: Farewell, Frankel

Greg R — Fri, 26 Oct 2012 04:53:09 GMT

Footlick, who's "criticizing" Zarkava? I just said that as soon as she ran one race against top males, she was gone. I know perfectly well about the Agha Khan's longstanding practice of early retirement of his horses to protect their records. I don't like it. I reserve the right to say so. I also know perfectly well about the weight conditions for the Arc. I think it somewhat distorts the results and, again, I reserve the right to say so.

So Snow Fairy was not Zarkava at two or three? So what? Neither was Zenyatta, at two or three, what she later became, because she didn't race early. Neither was Cigar, or countless others. That is irrelevant to anything I said.

re: Farewell, Frankel

Lammtarra's Arc — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 23:25:05 GMT

PNKT- your 100% correct about Galileo x Goldikova. I (BLEEPED) that one up. But it would be nice...lol.

re: Farewell, Frankel

an ole railbird — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 16:29:59 GMT

by any means, i dont claim to be a prophet. but i like to predict what i think will work.

if i were in the race horse business, strong enough to swing it.

i would start making arrangements to go to england in year 2017& purchase a stud colt, sired by frankel & out of a nijinsky bred mare,( or a mare bred like nijinsky).

IMO, that cross will produce an outstanding individual, who can run from the length of a spoon handle, to starvation. and run it on or off the lead.

i may or may not be on earth to see it. but some of you younger ones, remember to watch & see what happens.

and remember that "an ole rail bird" said it.

re: Farewell, Frankel

Footlick — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 15:58:54 GMT

Greg R- Zarkava got the same weight break s every 3 yr old filly does in that race. The fact that she won so easily as a 3 yr old filly attests to her talent, as did every other race she ran in as a 2 yr old and 3 yr old. She also set a new record for the Pouliches at one mile and equalled the record for the 12f Vermeille against older fillies after dwelling at the start and spotting the field something like 4-5 lengths, for those who like horse who set records. Was every race of hers an optical illusion? Was Soumillon never even uncocking his whip in any of her races an optical illusion? I get so tired of people criticizing this filly. She did everything asked of her with ease. Zarkava had more than one outstanding race. Her whole career was outstanding. Period. And if you knew anything about the Aga Khan, if a filly has a career like hers, they are usually retired. He likes to get horses like her in the gene pool of his breeding operation. He only brought Sarafina back because she did not win the Arc. The same with Shareta. If either had won the Arc they would have been retired also. I love Snow Fairy. She is a wonderful animal. But she was not Zarkava at two or three. But to each his own.

re: Farewell, Frankel

Greg R — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 04:28:56 GMT

Several mentions of Zarkava as one of the Euro greats. She would not have been so visually impressive in the Arc, scooting away from the field as she did, if she had been carrying twelve pounds more, as were all the older males in the race. I consider this a form of optical illusion. Then she was spirited away instantly, so the newly-minted legend could not be tarnished. She was good. She didn't do enough to show me she was THAT good.

One who is "THAT good" is Snow Fairy. I was buzzed that she might come to BC, then gutted when she was injured. At least they didn't wrap her in mothballs after one outstanding race. She has taken it to the world.

re: Farewell, Frankel

Greg R — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 04:05:41 GMT

So if you had a nice mare and wanted to breed a Frankel, which would you send her to: Frankel (which never sired anything), or Galileo (which gave us Frankel)?

I would unequivocally say, "Galileo!"

Galileo has proven he can sire a Frankel. Frankel may turn out to be a good stallion, but he is unlikely to do what his own sire has already done.

Frankel, as a 2-yr-old and 3-yr-old, always looked to me like a sprinter/miler in build. I wouldn't be surprised if his offspring are throwbacks to the speed element in his pedigree, rather than 12 furlong classic types.

re: Farewell, Frankel

an ole railbird — Wed, 24 Oct 2012 19:52:17 GMT

salute: to the frankel& all the fickel fans,who support horse horse racing, all the while surviving in a fanticy world,created by story books & story book situations.

there is no way to take anything away from frankels race record. he took on all the comers, on that side of the pond, AND beat them soundly.

lets compare what the fans are saying about frankel, to what would have been said if he had done his running in the usa& and his name had been "plain frank".

i can just see it all now. the comments on "hanging with haskins" would have read.

' plain frank" has won 14 ina row, but hes distance challanged.

plain franks trainer picked his races. he never was ran in stiff competion.

plain frank only ran on turf, because hes sore & his trainer is hiding it.

plain frank is a speed horse& not suitable for stud service.

plain frank was probaly given drugs & his records should not be reckonized.

plain franks trainer should be tarred & feathered for racing him so often.

last but not least, non of his racing record would be reckonized in new york state, because he was never raced out of a n.y.stakes barn.

if it happens anywhere but the usa. & the trainer speaks with a forgien accent. it is considered the gospel truth. because these people dont cheat.

how do we know they dont cheat?

of course they dont cheat, because they say they dont.

& n.y.r.a. is not there to police them.

good luck in the shed FRANKEL. personally im glad you were spared the scrutniy of the fickel fans of fanticy racing in the usa.

i remain, " an ole railbird".

re: Farewell, Frankel

Footlick — Wed, 24 Oct 2012 15:03:04 GMT

No problem Slew. I haven't seen the Timeform numbers, but Racing Post feels he ran his race. 3rd in this field is not bad, considering Frankel and the soft to heavy ground loving Cirrus des Aigles in the group. Cirrus ran a huge race on ground that favored him, but was second best.

re: Farewell, Frankel

Dooquila — Wed, 24 Oct 2012 14:31:02 GMT

Just Fyi Midnight Lute....Rags to Riches foaled her Henry the Navigator at Coolmore I believe and has been bred back to Galileo twice since then I think.

re: Farewell, Frankel

Dooquila — Wed, 24 Oct 2012 14:19:38 GMT

Midnight Lute thanks, re your thoughts on Moonstone very interesting. I share your sentiments that a blending of the Aga Khan mares would be amazing but who knows what will happen. I am wondering if a Dynaformer filly could throw up something considering how well Roberto is working with the stock. Pnkt, Zarkava also has a Galileo foal!!

re: Farewell, Frankel

PNkt — Wed, 24 Oct 2012 07:11:41 GMT

Midnight Lute - Sea the Stars oldest crop are only yearlings. Zarkava has a 2yo by Dalakhani who has yet to race. Her Sea the Stars yearling is as yet unnamed.

Also, Goldikova was sent to Galileo this year (a picture of her arriving at Coolmore was put on Twitter earlier this year).

re: Farewell, Frankel

TripleCrownKaren — Wed, 24 Oct 2012 03:54:09 GMT

Steve, this article brought me up short becasue it made me think once again of Bobby F. and how much I miss him on the racing scene. A true marshmallow hearted guy when it came to his animals for sure. And as for his "namesake", well it doesn't matter if you are from Europe or USA....as great horse is a great horse no matter where they show up. I've watched this horse since I heard they had named him for Bobby, and like him....Frankel the racehorse did not dissapoint and in fact gave us American racing fans another horse to root for after our Triple Crown kinda fizzled out. Here's hoping Frankel does as phenomenally at stud as he did at the track. I know I'll be waiting for his "kids" to arrive at the track!

re: Farewell, Frankel

The Deacon — Wed, 24 Oct 2012 02:20:10 GMT

Yep, it's official I can't spell anymore. All are correct it's Danica Patrick, my brain said one thing, my hands typed something else. Getting old ain't for the faint of heart......

Before long I will be able to hide my own easter eggs :) not so funny......

re: Farewell, Frankel

Lammtarra's Arc — Wed, 24 Oct 2012 01:04:51 GMT

Age of reason- Ok then, I will pick Marketin Mix(CDN), or Never Retreat(CDN).

Had no idea Rags was in Ireland. Interesting.

re: Farewell, Frankel

Karen in Indiana — Wed, 24 Oct 2012 01:03:40 GMT

Needler in Virginia,

You make a very good point about the trainer's part in a horse's greatness. Would Frankel have been the horse he became if he didn't have a trainer with many decades of experience that gave him insight on how to deal with the mental makeup of Frankel? Would Zenyatta have accomplished half of what she did if she did not have John Shirreff's patient dealings with her? So You Think is an example of a horse on his way to greatness that was taken away from the one who knew him and given to a very good trainer, but one who didn't match well with him. Aidan O'Brien admitted he had made mistakes with him. So you are right to commend Frankel's trainer for the part he played. As you did as well, Steve.

re: Farewell, Frankel

Lammtarra's Arc — Wed, 24 Oct 2012 01:02:30 GMT

Age Of Reason- I had no idea she was in Ireland. Ok scratch her.. I'll take the Canadian breds Marketing Mix and Never Retreat.

re: Farewell, Frankel

Age of Reason — Tue, 23 Oct 2012 23:39:32 GMT

Midnight Lute--Rags to Riches was sent to Ireland a couple years ago, if memory serves me correctly. Speaking offhand, if I were to try and think of an American mare whom I would like to see go to Frankel, I'd say Tapitsfly, Rainbow View or Winter Memories.

re: Farewell, Frankel

Slew — Tue, 23 Oct 2012 23:36:55 GMT

DontHateMe: Sea The Stars won the Arc, a 12 furlong race. He often ran at 10 and 12 furlongs, victoriously. All but 2 of Frankel's races were at a mile. Only 2 races went to 10f. Frankel did not attempt the Arc, and has never run beyond 10f. However, his final race in the Championship Stakes was his crowning achievement simply because he overcame so very much to earn it, and won it with flair.

Snow Fairy won 7 G1 races all at 10f and 12f. And she's sooo fast! She almost caught So You Think in the 2011 Irish Champion Stakes..run in 2:04, but came back in 2012 to win in 2:00 over Nathaniel and St Nicholas Abby. Only an injury kept her out of the 2012 Arc, and the Championship Stakes. I always considered her a great threat in any race because she has a long stride and speed to spare.

Footlick: Thanx for the info. I really thought Nathaniel would run better than he did, and that explains a lot.

re: Farewell, Frankel

Freetex — Tue, 23 Oct 2012 23:33:05 GMT

Well, what a fine article and an amazing concept.

Both Frankels, just stellar in their fields.

Of course, Steve, no one writes like you. No one. Thanks for getting me inspired in racing once again.

re: Farewell, Frankel

Lammtarra's Arc — Tue, 23 Oct 2012 22:52:50 GMT

Don't Hate Me- Sea The stars resume says it all. Great Middle Distance horse, and as far as resume, he tops frankel, as does Nijinsky. As far as pure athletic ability Frankel and Nijinsky are 1-2 for me. One was devastating, and the other smooth as silk and devastating. All Nijinsky needed was a hand ride from lester and he would run on by horses just like Frankel did when he coasted by St.Nic in the Juddmonte, and to close in on Cirrus Des Aigles in the Champions stakes.

re: Farewell, Frankel

Lammtarra's Arc — Tue, 23 Oct 2012 22:48:57 GMT

Dooquila- I remember Zarkava foaled a Sea The stars Colt who should be 2 years old by now. No word on whether he is going to the track or not. Also Goldikova is in foal to Sea The stars also. I am hoping her STS Colt makes it to the track...that is unlimited staying power!.

My opinion is the of all the mares that could visit Frankelfrom the USA I would choose Rags to Riches, or Blind Luck. If they come from Europe normally you would say a Danehill mare but with Kind being by Danehill I would pass. So I will take the Dalakhani Mare Moonstone who is part of the Aga Khans Broodmare band. Her breeding is impeccable with no mention of Northern Dancer or Sadler's wells in any generation. Her 5th Generation is loaded with Mill Reef(ok sire), Mr.Prospector, Nijinsky, and she has the Ribot line from Hoist the Flag. Nice Broodmare Cheers.

re: Farewell, Frankel

skyfire — Tue, 23 Oct 2012 22:08:48 GMT

I would like to say "Thank you" to Juddmonte for bringing this great horse back for his four year old campaign. With the internet, it really doesn't matter that he never made it over here. { I am so grateful for my computer (and HRTV, of course) because it brings horses like Frankel and Black Caviar into our homes.)

It was amazing that Frankel raced this year; I can't think of another owner that would have kept him in training. Good luck to Frankel and Juddmonte!

re: Farewell, Frankel

Karen in Texas — Tue, 23 Oct 2012 20:27:52 GMT

Ranag---I was just asking for clarification. The "rejects" remark tells me more about what you meant--thanks.